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MacOSX beta testing call

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  • emmedics4
    Hi, In those days was spotted and fixed a long standing bug that has prevented kicad to behave correctly. Now we need to plan next steps, so we need a fresh
    Message 1 of 7 , Jan 12, 2012
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      Hi,
      In those days was spotted and fixed a long standing bug that has prevented kicad to behave correctly.
      Now we need to plan next steps, so we need a fresh list of bugs to understand where is better to focus future platform developments.

      You can download new binaries for 10.5 (x86/x64):
      http://www.mdx4.org/index.php?archives/29-English.html&serendipity[lang_selected]=en

      PS
      Binaries are build for DEBUG, so please don't launch them from kicad.app but individually to avoid hang (well known problem on all platforms).

      --
      Marco
    • Jeff Kaskey
      Given the trouble I was having with the windows version library editor, I finally got around to downloading the Mac version. I m only dealing with eeschema
      Message 2 of 7 , Jan 17, 2012
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      Given the trouble I was having with the windows version library editor, I finally got around to downloading the Mac version. I'm only dealing with eeschema here. This is a 13" MacBook, 2.26G Core2 Duo, about 1.5 years old. Fairly vanilla, besides being white.

      Installation was painless, I unzipped in the download folder, then dragged the whole KiCad folder to Applications.

      Lots of warnings [attached], just during startup. After a few of them, I clicked "Cancel", the empty drawing frame came up and I loaded the libs I would need, then opened a simple hierarchical schematic I'm working on (Oh, should I back this up??). I got the message that the libraries could not be found, but it seems to have found them anyway. 

      Mouse-over tooltips don't seem to work well (every once in a while I can coax one up).

      Zooming or panning while parts are selected in a group causes strange scaling, but it goes away when items are placed. Dragging the group to the edge of the window makes the group jump back to the middle of the page, without the page having moved. When I finally drop the group, it shows that in fact the page was moving, so now the parts are way off to the side. If I move a single item (using "m") I can move the part around, but if I drag a scroll bar while the part is selected, the page jumps (sort of like when dragging a group) and again nothing appears to change, but when dropped the part is in a new location.

      As noted above, I manually added libs, then gave a path to my repository of other libs. Kicad found them (modulo the above warning) but when I went into the component editor, it only knew about the ones I explicitly added. Going back and explicitly adding libs it said it already knew about made them visible to the component editor.

      More so even than the Win version, there is ghosting when you move a part. That is, the image remains where the part moved from, until something causes a redraw.

      Oddly enough, the problem I just posted about the component editor in Windows does the same thing in the Mac. 

      Points for vast speed improvements - it now moves effectively as quickly as the Win version. The linework is a little fuzzier and not quite as readable as you zoom out. However things no longer disappear as you zoom out. 

      So, there are enough serious annoyances that I'll probably stick with the Win version for the moment - but I'm cheering for you, the progress looks promising!

      -J






      From: emmedics4 <marco.serantoni@...>
      To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2012 12:11 PM
      Subject: [kicad-users] MacOSX beta testing call

       
      Hi,
      In those days was spotted and fixed a long standing bug that has prevented kicad to behave correctly.
      Now we need to plan next steps, so we need a fresh list of bugs to understand where is better to focus future platform developments.

      You can download new binaries for 10.5 (x86/x64):
      http://www.mdx4.org/index.php?archives/29-English.html&serendipity[lang_selected]=en

      PS
      Binaries are build for DEBUG, so please don't launch them from kicad.app but individually to avoid hang (well known problem on all platforms).

      --
      Marco



    • emmedics4
      ... This problem is because wxWidgets (as all in that binary) is compiled for DEBUG, is a warning that you can skip safetly as you did. ... Paths for libraries
      Message 3 of 7 , Jan 18, 2012
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        --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Kaskey <jkaskey@...> wrote:
        > Lots of warnings [attached], just during startup. After a few of them, I clicked "Cancel", the empty drawing frame came up and I loaded the libs I would need, then opened a simple hierarchical schematic I'm working on (Oh, should I back this up??). I got the message that the libraries could not be found, but it seems to have found them anyway. 

        This problem is because wxWidgets (as all in that binary) is compiled for DEBUG, is a warning that you can skip safetly as you did.

        > Mouse-over tooltips don't seem to work well (every once in a while I can coax one up).
        > Zooming or panning while parts are selected in a group causes strange scaling, but it goes away when items are placed. Dragging the group to the edge of the window makes the group jump back to the middle of the page, without the page having moved. When I finally drop the group, it shows that in fact the page was moving, so now the parts are way off to the side. If I move a single item (using "m") I can move the part around, but if I drag a scroll bar while the part is selected, the page jumps (sort of like when dragging a group) and again nothing appears to change, but when dropped the part is in a new location.

        > As noted above, I manually added libs, then gave a path to my repository of other libs. Kicad found them (modulo the above warning) but when I went into the component editor, it only knew about the ones I explicitly added. Going back and explicitly adding libs it said it already knew about made them visible to the component editor.

        Paths for libraries on OSX are (accordly to OSX expectation):
        /Library/Application Support/kicad and $HOME/Library/Application Support/kicad

        > More so even than the Win version, there is ghosting when you move a part. That is, the image remains where the part moved from, until something causes a redraw.

        This could be resolved soon, could you file a bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad specific for OSX ?

        > Oddly enough, the problem I just posted about the component editor in Windows does the same thing in the Mac. 

        > Points for vast speed improvements - it now moves effectively as quickly as the Win version. The linework is a little fuzzier and not quite as readable as you zoom out. However things no longer disappear as you zoom out. 

        > So, there are enough serious annoyances that I'll probably stick with the Win version for the moment - but I'm cheering for you, the progress looks promising!

        The Zoom issue was the point that made me spit blood, this call for beta test is made mainly to focus drawing issues in Kicad.
        My effords are focused mainly on pcbnew that is more complex from the drawing point of view and I should admit that i've cared much less eeschema.
        Now, this version is big milestone: what We need is a fresh buglist with the OSX drawing issues of instruments/action on eeschema and pcbnew to work on.
        Since developers on OSX are few (2) and with a few hours avaiable, we call the users to share the workload at least for the testing, making possible planning and making more profit from those hours.

        --
        Marco
      • Berceanu Cristian
        Hi all, When I am looking at the 3D view, the PCB is not rendered as solid but in some wire-frame mode. Is there any way to change this? Please see the (tiny)
        Message 4 of 7 , Jan 18, 2012
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        Hi all,
        When I am looking at the 3D view, the PCB is not rendered as solid but in some wire-frame mode. Is there any way to change this? Please see the (tiny) attached picture in order to understand what I mean.
        I also want to make the text disappear but I am not able to. The text you can see in the picture is on the Adhs-Front layer. The image is rendered with all boxes in the "Layer" and "Render" tabs ticked off.

        I am using latest KiCAD version for Windows.

        Any thoughts?

        Regards,
        Cristian
      • Jeff Kaskey
        Marco, I don t use the default lib locations, and might argue that no one should, since we strongly encourage users to create their own custom libs from the
        Message 5 of 7 , Jan 18, 2012
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          Marco,
          I don't use the default lib locations, and might argue that no one should, since we strongly encourage users to create their own custom libs from the reference distribution. I do sometimes cheat, but even then I copy the distribution lib to my workspace. That said, I don't think my problems with the library location in this version are that critical. I mess around with their locations and may well have caused some of the problem myself. Least of the concerns.

          I'm happy to continue to poke at the eeschema Mac version for testing, and report what I see. I guess I would caution that it isn't quite in a state that I would call Beta, in that even allowing for issues, it isn't really usable for real work, mostly due to the pan/zoom stuff. 

          I don't use PCBnew, so can't help there.

          I tried Gerbiew:
          When reading non-gerber files it throws lots of errors. This seems sensible at first, but lots of cad tools output report files and other stuff mixed in with the gerber files and for instance gcprevue allows you to simply group select them all and read them in. The non-gerbers are simply ignored. Gerbview created layers for each file regardless of having no gerber content. This is probably not unique to the MacOS version.

          The zoom (either mouse scroll-wheel or menu button) was slow with a ~40 square inch four layer board showing all layers. With D-codes turned on, it became Really slow. Most other things also have lag at a speed that is acceptable for testing, but might drive users a little crazy.

          Rendering is pretty good - seems a little fuzzy in some cases (maybe similar to what I saw in eeschema?).

          The real killer in gerbview (previous versions also) is that if you inadvertently drag a LMB rectangle, it moves the included geometry and there is no way back other than restart the program! You don't need LMB for anything, but it is such a natural thing in so many tools that eventually you will do in and then scream because you just irrevocably scrambled all visible layers in the drawing.

          The scroll bars don't make sense. I can be zoomed in, but the scroll bars only allow me to get to a small part of the drawing.

          Show Source menu item told me it could not find /Applications/MacVim.app, which I do have installed.

          Tool tips don't always show up.

          I don't recall if this is new, but the feature where the selected layer is on top is nice.

          When dragging for a zoom window, the window leaves lots of ghosts. They go away in the redraw, just a little cobby.

          The "Visibles" right side menu comes up a little too compressed to see the check boxes. If you stretch it out, then later close it with the left side tool button, it is again too small when you re-click the tool button to get the menu back.

          Basically, it is reasonably usable except for the killer noted above.

          Again, thanks for all your work on this.

          -J





          From: emmedics4 <marco.serantoni@...>
          To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2012 2:18 AM
          Subject: [kicad-users] Re: MacOSX beta testing call

           
          --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Kaskey <jkaskey@...> wrote:
          > Lots of warnings [attached], just during startup. After a few of them, I clicked "Cancel", the empty drawing frame came up and I loaded the libs I would need, then opened a simple hierarchical schematic I'm working on (Oh, should I back this up??). I got the message that the libraries could not be found, but it seems to have found them anyway. 

          This problem is because wxWidgets (as all in that binary) is compiled for DEBUG, is a warning that you can skip safetly as you did.

          > Mouse-over tooltips don't seem to work well (every once in a while I can coax one up).
          > Zooming or panning while parts are selected in a group causes strange scaling, but it goes away when items are placed. Dragging the group to the edge of the window makes the group jump back to the middle of the page, without the page having moved. When I finally drop the group, it shows that in fact the page was moving, so now the parts are way off to the side. If I move a single item (using "m") I can move the part around, but if I drag a scroll bar while the part is selected, the page jumps (sort of like when dragging a group) and again nothing appears to change, but when dropped the part is in a new location.

          > As noted above, I manually added libs, then gave a path to my repository of other libs. Kicad found them (modulo the above warning) but when I went into the component editor, it only knew about the ones I explicitly added. Going back and explicitly adding libs it said it already knew about made them visible to the component editor.

          Paths for libraries on OSX are (accordly to OSX expectation):
          /Library/Application Support/kicad and $HOME/Library/Application Support/kicad

          > More so even than the Win version, there is ghosting when you move a part. That is, the image remains where the part moved from, until something causes a redraw.

          This could be resolved soon, could you file a bug at https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad specific for OSX ?

          > Oddly enough, the problem I just posted about the component editor in Windows does the same thing in the Mac. 

          > Points for vast speed improvements - it now moves effectively as quickly as the Win version. The linework is a little fuzzier and not quite as readable as you zoom out. However things no longer disappear as you zoom out. 

          > So, there are enough serious annoyances that I'll probably stick with the Win version for the moment - but I'm cheering for you, the progress looks promising!

          The Zoom issue was the point that made me spit blood, this call for beta test is made mainly to focus drawing issues in Kicad.
          My effords are focused mainly on pcbnew that is more complex from the drawing point of view and I should admit that i've cared much less eeschema.
          Now, this version is big milestone: what We need is a fresh buglist with the OSX drawing issues of instruments/action on eeschema and pcbnew to work on.
          Since developers on OSX are few (2) and with a few hours avaiable, we call the users to share the workload at least for the testing, making possible planning and making more profit from those hours.

          --
          Marco



        • emmedics4
          ... You can play with library priorities do to that: your home one is first, then searches in the system one. ... I ve fixed the move in eeschema, probably
          Message 6 of 7 , Jan 24, 2012
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            --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Kaskey <jkaskey@...> wrote:
            >
            > Marco,
            > I don't use the default lib locations, and might argue that no one should, since we strongly encourage users to create their own custom libs from the reference distribution. I do sometimes cheat, but even then I copy the distribution lib to my workspace. That said, I don't think my problems with the library location in this version are that critical. I mess around with their locations and may well have caused some of the problem myself. Least of the concerns.

            You can play with library priorities do to that:
            your home one is first, then searches in the system one.

            > I'm happy to continue to poke at the eeschema Mac version for testing, and report what I see. I guess I would caution that it isn't quite in a state that I would call Beta, in that even allowing for issues, it isn't really usable for real work, mostly due to the pan/zoom stuff.

            I've fixed the move in eeschema, probably pan/zoom will be the next.
            You can find the new version in the same location :)

            > I tried Gerbiew:
            > When reading non-gerber files it throws lots of errors. This seems sensible at first, but lots of cad tools output report files and other stuff mixed in with the gerber files and for instance gcprevue allows you to simply group select them all and read them in. The non-gerbers are simply ignored. Gerbview created layers for each file regardless of having no gerber content. This is probably not unique to the MacOS version.

            Yep, I suspect it too, try to file a generic BUG to the bug list.

            > The zoom (either mouse scroll-wheel or menu button) was slow with a ~40 square inch four layer board showing all layers. With D-codes turned on, it became Really slow. Most other things also have lag at a speed that is acceptable for testing, but might drive users a little crazy.
            >
            > Rendering is pretty good - seems a little fuzzy in some cases (maybe similar to what I saw in eeschema?).
            Yep, usually i follow the pcbnew -> eeschema -> gerbview path when fixing.

            > The real killer in gerbview (previous versions also) is that if you inadvertently drag a LMB rectangle, it moves the included geometry and there is no way back other than restart the program! You don't need LMB for anything, but it is such a natural thing in so many tools that eventually you will do in and then scream because you just irrevocably scrambled all visible layers in the drawing.
            This happens to all platforms ?


            > The scroll bars don't make sense. I can be zoomed in, but the scroll bars only allow me to get to a small part of the drawing.
            >
            > Show Source menu item told me it could not find /Applications/MacVim.app, which I do have installed.


            > Tool tips don't always show up.
            wxWidgets problem, can't help much.

            > I don't recall if this is new, but the feature where the selected layer is on top is nice.
            > When dragging for a zoom window, the window leaves lots of ghosts. They go away in the redraw, just a little cobby.

            > The "Visibles" right side menu comes up a little too compressed to see the check boxes. If you stretch it out, then later close it with the left side tool button, it is again too small when you re-click the tool button to get the menu back.
            >
            > Basically, it is reasonably usable except for the killer noted above.
            >
            > Again, thanks for all your work on this.
            I wish to finish to this work and focus on my homemade projects, i've began to work on kicad because i was looking for an OSX program my projects still abandoned and i'm working on kicad :)

            --
            Marco
          • Jeff Kaskey
            It happens in my Windows and OSX environments. I don t currently have KiCad running in an Ubuntu, so haven t checked. In Windows it has been there for a number
            Message 7 of 7 , Jan 25, 2012
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              It happens in my Windows and OSX environments. I don't currently have KiCad running in an Ubuntu, so haven't checked. In Windows it has been there for a number of versions, though I tend to go straight to gcprevue in Windows.

              -J


              From: emmedics4 <marco.serantoni@...>
              To: kicad-users@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2012 10:19 AM
              Subject: [kicad-users] Re: MacOSX beta testing call

               
              --- In kicad-users@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Kaskey <jkaskey@...> wrote:
              [...snip...]
              > The real killer in gerbview (previous versions also) is that if you inadvertently drag a LMB rectangle, it moves the included geometry and there is no way back other than restart the program! You don't need LMB for anything, but it is such a natural thing in so many tools that eventually you will do in and then scream because you just irrevocably scrambled all visible layers in the drawing.

              This happens to all platforms ?
              [...snip...]


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