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The Faded Sun

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  • Herod Antipas
    I m sorry if this has been discussed before, but has anyone brought up the uncanny similarities between the Kencyr saga and the event in The Faded Sun trilogy
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 2, 2005
      I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but has anyone brought up
      the uncanny similarities between the Kencyr saga and the event in The
      Faded Sun trilogy by C.J. Cherryh? Anyone know if PC has read them?
      Any other CJ Cherryh fans?
    • Heidi Heustis
      I ve read them, but I think there is enough of a difference both in the cultures and etc. that while similar both series stand alone. P.C. s creation of the
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 3, 2005
        I've read them, but I think there is enough of a difference both in the cultures and etc. that while similar both series stand alone. P.C.'s creation of the Kencyrath certainly predates the creation of the Miri(spelling?).

        Herod Antipas <antippas@...> wrote:I'm sorry if this has been discussed before, but has anyone brought up
        the uncanny similarities between the Kencyr saga and the event in The
        Faded Sun trilogy by C.J. Cherryh? Anyone know if PC has read them?
        Any other CJ Cherryh fans?







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      • Paula Lieberman
        ... From: Heidi Heustis ... cultures and etc. that while similar both series stand alone. P.C. s creation of the Kencyrath
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 3, 2005
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Heidi Heustis" <arkieokie2004@...>


          > I've read them, but I think there is enough of a difference both in the
          cultures and etc. that while similar both series stand alone. P.C.'s
          creation of the Kencyrath certainly predates the creation of the
          Miri(spelling?).
          >

          They were conceived independently, I strongly suspect. I bought Godstalk
          sometime between spring 1979 and fall 1981 in the original edition, and had
          the Faded Sun books around the time time, maybe slightly later. It's
          usually a year or more from the time a book gets delivered to a publisher to
          when it gets printed, and the writer started writing it months to years
          before delivery.

          > Herod Antipas <antippas@...> wrote:I'm sorry if this has been
          discussed before, but has anyone brought up
          > the uncanny similarities between the Kencyr saga and the event in The
          > Faded Sun trilogy by C.J. Cherryh? Anyone know if PC has read them?
          > Any other CJ Cherryh fans?
          >
        • Herod Antipas
          It s hard to say which came first. My copy of God Stalk says copyright 1982 but it alsosays that portions appeared in another book in 1977. The Faded Sun
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 4, 2005
            It's hard to say which came first. My copy of God Stalk says
            copyright 1982 but it alsosays that portions appeared in another
            book in 1977. The Faded Sun says copyright 1979. I'm not accusing
            anyone of being a plagiarist of course, but the similaries between
            the Kencyr and the Mri, both warrior people with extraordinary
            abilities, not native to the worlds on which they live and having
            moved from world to world fighting an ongoing battle. A brother and
            sister as the last of a line. The special relationship with a big
            dangerous animal. I probably didi not appreciate how early the
            Kencyr pedigree is, since I first saw the books in the 80's. I had
            assumed that The Faded Sun came first and wondered if PC had read
            them.


            >
            > > I've read them, but I think there is enough of a difference both
            in the
            > cultures and etc. that while similar both series stand alone.
            P.C.'s
            > creation of the Kencyrath certainly predates the creation of the
            > Miri(spelling?).
            > >
            >
            > They were conceived independently, I strongly suspect. I bought
            Godstalk
            > sometime between spring 1979 and fall 1981 in the original
            edition, and had
            > the Faded Sun books around the time time, maybe slightly later.
            It's
            > usually a year or more from the time a book gets delivered to a
            publisher to
            > when it gets printed, and the writer started writing it months to
            years
            > before delivery.
            >
            > > Herod Antipas <antippas@h...> wrote:I'm sorry if this has been
            > discussed before, but has anyone brought up
            > > the uncanny similarities between the Kencyr saga and the event
            in The
            > > Faded Sun trilogy by C.J. Cherryh? Anyone know if PC has read
            them?
            > > Any other CJ Cherryh fans?
            > >
          • denisnepveu
            In the foreword to the Hypatia Press edition of Blood & Ivory, PC says that she wrote the first draft of Child of Darkness around the time of the Kent State
            Message 5 of 8 , Sep 5, 2005
              In the foreword to the Hypatia Press edition of Blood & Ivory, PC says
              that she wrote the first draft of "Child of Darkness" around the time
              of the Kent State Massacre (May 4, 1970). "My original idea was that
              in escaping Perimal Darklin Jame overshoots her home world Rathillien
              and lands on the next threshold world, our Earth...." That tells me
              that PC had already worked out the foundations and many details (the
              story world, Jame's place in that world and within the Kencyrath, her
              major enemies, her having extraordinary powers as a Shanir, etc.) for
              all the later books by 1970.

              Other forewords and comments by PC (that I don't feel like looking up
              right now) indicate that Tori's place in the story was also
              primordial, stemming from elements of her real life and family.

              I haven't read the Faded Sun series, so I'm not saying there's no
              similarity there. On the other hand, I don't see any reason to
              suspect copying in either direction.

              On another note, the post after the one quoted below mentions
              similarities between Jame's world and the Chanur saga, which I have
              read. I just don't see any. Sure, both series have strong female
              characters. So do books by LeGuin and McCaffrey. I need a higher
              threshold of similarity to start thinking that any real similarity
              exists.

              Denis

              --- In kencyr@yahoogroups.com, "Herod Antipas" <antippas@h...> wrote:
              > It's hard to say which came first. My copy of God Stalk says
              > copyright 1982 but it alsosays that portions appeared in another
              > book in 1977. The Faded Sun says copyright 1979. I'm not accusing
              > anyone of being a plagiarist of course, but the similaries between
              > the Kencyr and the Mri, both warrior people with extraordinary
              > abilities, not native to the worlds on which they live and having
              > moved from world to world fighting an ongoing battle. A brother and
              > sister as the last of a line. The special relationship with a big
              > dangerous animal. I probably didi not appreciate how early the
              > Kencyr pedigree is, since I first saw the books in the 80's. I had
              > assumed that The Faded Sun came first and wondered if PC had read
              > them.
              >
              >
              > >
              > > > I've read them, but I think there is enough of a difference both
              > in the
              > > cultures and etc. that while similar both series stand alone.
              > P.C.'s
              > > creation of the Kencyrath certainly predates the creation of the
              > > Miri(spelling?).
              > > >
              > >
              > > They were conceived independently, I strongly suspect. I bought
              > Godstalk
              > > sometime between spring 1979 and fall 1981 in the original
              > edition, and had
              > > the Faded Sun books around the time time, maybe slightly later.
              > It's
              > > usually a year or more from the time a book gets delivered to a
              > publisher to
              > > when it gets printed, and the writer started writing it months to
              > years
              > > before delivery.
              > >
              > > > Herod Antipas <antippas@h...> wrote:I'm sorry if this has been
              > > discussed before, but has anyone brought up
              > > > the uncanny similarities between the Kencyr saga and the event
              > in The
              > > > Faded Sun trilogy by C.J. Cherryh? Anyone know if PC has read
              > them?
              > > > Any other CJ Cherryh fans?
              > > >
            • redcorgipal
              Having a similar theme or ideas in stories by different authors isn t plagiarism. Plagiarism is when one author takes actual portions of another s work, drops
              Message 6 of 8 , Sep 6, 2005
                Having a similar theme or ideas in stories by different authors isn't
                plagiarism. Plagiarism is when one author takes actual portions of
                another's work, drops it into their own work and claims that it's their
                own. If having a similar theme was plagiarism, then Anne McCaffery
                would be after Mercedes Lackey for her Companions, C.J. Cherryh and her
                Night Horses, and Gail Greeno and her Gattos. These three authors have
                written stories that to me are clearly inspired by Anne McCaffery and
                her dragons. Humans bonding with a special animal/being to protect the
                people of their land/world. It's the same with Hodgel and Cherryl,
                similar, perhaps one was inspired by the other, but each author took a
                different route to get where they were going. I'd suggest enjoying the
                scenery each author offers in her works and not worrying about the
                similarities.

                Cindy
              • Herod Antipas
                I didn t mean to start a controversy. I enjoyed both series very much, and I was just wondering if PC had read the Faded Sun and was influenced by it. From
                Message 7 of 8 , Sep 6, 2005
                  I didn't mean to start a controversy. I enjoyed both series very
                  much, and I was just wondering if PC had read the Faded Sun and was
                  influenced by it. From the chronology that people have provided, it
                  looks like the Kencyr were likely conceived before the Mri anyway.
                  I also wonder what other fantasy writers have read HOdgell and what
                  they think of her. part of th eproblem I'm sure is that she has
                  produced so little output, but obviously we all thinks he belongs in
                  the same pantehon withthe other wonderful writers just mentioned,
                  it's just that the world doesn't seem to realize that.




                  > Having a similar theme or ideas in stories by different authors
                  isn't
                  > plagiarism. Plagiarism is when one author takes actual portions
                  of
                  > another's work, drops it into their own work and claims that it's
                  their
                  > own. If having a similar theme was plagiarism, then Anne
                  McCaffery
                  > would be after Mercedes Lackey for her Companions, C.J. Cherryh
                  and her
                  > Night Horses, and Gail Greeno and her Gattos. These three authors
                  have
                  > written stories that to me are clearly inspired by Anne McCaffery
                  and
                  > her dragons. Humans bonding with a special animal/being to
                  protect the
                  > people of their land/world. It's the same with Hodgel and
                  Cherryl,
                  > similar, perhaps one was inspired by the other, but each author
                  took a
                  > different route to get where they were going. I'd suggest
                  enjoying the
                  > scenery each author offers in her works and not worrying about the
                  > similarities.
                  >
                  > Cindy
                • Herod Antipas
                  Didin t you ever read a book that just felt like another book, even though there weren t all that many plot similarities. Maybe what I m really noticing is
                  Message 8 of 8 , Sep 6, 2005
                    Didin't you ever read a book that just felt like another book, even
                    though there weren't all that many plot similarities. Maybe what I'm
                    really noticing is that The Faded SUn reminds me of the Chanur saga
                    especially by having a human male as the observer of this alien
                    culture, but there are essentially no laughs in The Faded Sun and the
                    Chanur sag, particularly with Hilfy as a little bit of a "Calamity
                    Jame" sort of character (I made that up, do you like it?)has some of
                    the humor and adventure of the Kencyr books.


                    > I haven't read the Faded Sun series, so I'm not saying there's no
                    > similarity there. On the other hand, I don't see any reason to
                    > suspect copying in either direction.
                    >
                    > On another note, the post after the one quoted below mentions
                    > similarities between Jame's world and the Chanur saga, which I have
                    > read. I just don't see any. Sure, both series have strong female
                    > characters. So do books by LeGuin and McCaffrey. I need a higher
                    > threshold of similarity to start thinking that any real similarity
                    > exists.
                    >
                    > Denis
                    >
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