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  • mcmflorida
    Actually I was refering to the scene in Seeker s Mask. The location was Mt. Alban down at the main gate when Kindrie accidently let in the weirding.
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 2, 2003
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      Actually I was refering to the scene in Seeker's Mask. The location
      was Mt. Alban down at the main gate when Kindrie accidently let in
      the weirding.
    • Steve Clark
      In article , ... Aha. The passage you refer to is where Tori s is in the Wolvers hold and Mount Alban pauses
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 4, 2003
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        In article <b6gbqs+7cnv@...>,
        mcmflorida <mbiglake@...> wrote:
        > Actually I was refering to the scene in Seeker's Mask. The location
        > was Mt. Alban down at the main gate when Kindrie accidently let in
        > the weirding.

        Aha.

        <pause to re-read book>

        The passage you refer to is where Tori's is in the Wolvers hold and Mount
        Alban pauses there. At that stage Torisen was delirious with lack of sleep
        and Jame opened the small door into Tori's Dreamscape. The footsteps are
        definitely Ganth's :

        >> Listen: he's on the stair. All winter, each night, coming one step
        >> further down...

        it's undoubtedly Ganth's curse working on Tori's mind. A major theme of
        Seeker's mask is curses from Highborn berserkers - Brendwyr, Jame and
        Ganth- all interacting with each other. But see how much better Tori is
        once Jame shuts the bolt - also I think it's first time Jame, Torisen, and
        Kindrie are all in close proximity.

        --
        Steve Clark {sjclark@...}
        The Kencyr webpage {http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sjclark/kencyr.htm}
        is looking out for artwork and fanfiction based on the Kencyr stories.
      • Hedera
        ... I don t think it s quite that clear cut. While I d agree with you whole-heartedly that this scene is a product of Ganth s curse, there is a possibility
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 6, 2003
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          > The footsteps are
          > definitely Ganth's :

          I don't think it's quite that clear cut. While I'd agree with you
          whole-heartedly that this scene is a product of Ganth's curse, there
          is a possibility that we haven't considered.

          We know that we're "in" Tori's soulscape--but that like Jame and
          Kindrie, he's really hidden inside something that isn't his soul
          image, and we've been told that we have yet to see his real soul
          image. And Tori's greatest fear isn't really his father--it's
          himself. Tori is afraid of what he is--a shanir--so much that he's
          denied to himself that he is one. He has, effectivly, locked the
          door of his mind to his own self. And everyone is inadvertantly
          helping him with that, because they know he's afraid and they don't
          yet want to shake up his world--they haven't told him that he can't
          deny that he's a shanir by virtue of the fact that he's a lord.

          See what I'm getting at? It could be Tori's footsteps on the stair--
          and he's gotten himself so confused that he doesn't even have the
          ability to identify where his real self is anymore. We think it's
          Ganth because we've bought into the idea that Tori holds--that he
          isn't afraid of himself, he's afraid of this "line of Shanir"
          madness. And his soulscape isn't really all that big--if his real
          image is hidden in there somewhere, behind that door and up those
          stairs is really the only place that hasn't really been examined.

          Not to mention, it would fit right into the methods of her books to
          have Jame screwing up even in her best efforts--helping Tori destroy
          himself in an attempt to help him.

          --Hedera
        • Steve Clark
          In article , ... Interesting theory. What you re saying is that it s Tori s Shanir nature which is haunting him. While that is true
          Message 4 of 4 , Apr 6, 2003
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            In article <b6ph8v+fash@...>,
            Hedera <but_the_sparrow_still_falls@...> wrote:

            > > The footsteps are
            > > definitely Ganth's :

            > I don't think it's quite that clear cut. While I'd agree with you
            > whole-heartedly that this scene is a product of Ganth's curse, there
            > is a possibility that we haven't considered.

            > We know that we're "in" Tori's soulscape--but that like Jame and
            > Kindrie, he's really hidden inside something that isn't his soul
            > image, and we've been told that we have yet to see his real soul
            > image. And Tori's greatest fear isn't really his father--it's
            > himself. Tori is afraid of what he is--a shanir--so much that he's
            > denied to himself that he is one. He has, effectivly, locked the
            > door of his mind to his own self. And everyone is inadvertantly
            > helping him with that, because they know he's afraid and they don't
            > yet want to shake up his world--they haven't told him that he can't
            > deny that he's a shanir by virtue of the fact that he's a lord.

            > See what I'm getting at? It could be Tori's footsteps on the stair--
            > and he's gotten himself so confused that he doesn't even have the
            > ability to identify where his real self is anymore. We think it's
            > Ganth because we've bought into the idea that Tori holds--that he
            > isn't afraid of himself, he's afraid of this "line of Shanir"
            > madness. And his soulscape isn't really all that big--if his real
            > image is hidden in there somewhere, behind that door and up those
            > stairs is really the only place that hasn't really been examined.

            Interesting theory. What you're saying is that it's Tori's Shanir nature
            which is haunting him. While that is true I think this is something
            separate - after all, only the Ardeth admit (to themselves) that their
            lords are Shanir, and they conceal it from the other Highborn. I think
            Torisen has a justifiable fear of being a Shanir (to him = insanity), more
            so since both his father and grandfather were insane, and he denies the
            obvious. But, his fear of his father and the of way he abandoned his home
            and people, had become so great that it dominated his thoughts whenever he
            had time to think. When Jame returned, she increased those feelings
            because Tori felt he had failed her too by not standing up to his father
            when he banished her. This was all made worse by his farseer ability and
            his link with Jame. When *she* bolted the door, in a sense she locked
            their father and Torisen's past away from him so that he is able to sleep
            and recover.

            It will be interesting to see how his soul image has changed next time it
            appears - I'm willing to bet it will be bigger and more developed now that
            his bugbear has been locked away. If he acknowledges his Shanir nature it
            should flower even more.

            > Not to mention, it would fit right into the methods of her books to
            > have Jame screwing up even in her best efforts--helping Tori destroy
            > himself in an attempt to help him.

            I'm not sure that is correct as her dealings with Torisen and Kindrie have
            been largly beneficial, at least to the other members of the Three.

            --
            Steve Clark {sjclark@...}
            The Kencyr webpage {http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/sjclark/kencyr.htm}
            is looking out for artwork and fanfiction based on the Kencyr stories.
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