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Re: [kanbandev] Re: Kanban in a management team?

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  • Eric Willeke
    David, I like this approach. Consider combining this with classes of service based on urgency and revokability (word?). This conscious step would help ensure
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 8, 2010
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      David, I like this approach. Consider combining this with classes of service based on urgency and revokability (word?). This conscious step would help ensure that urgent decisions are prioritized and also that less urgent decisions are given the time evaluate options and develop consensus (as opposed to making snap decisions out of habit).
       
      It also makes me wonder what would change in a culture that explicitly limited decisions in progress for various levels. Teams below them would have to achieve consensus on which deecisions are worth bubbling up, especially knowing that the things they push up would become visible to all teams across their level of the organization.  Good culture of collaboration or fear of ridicule?
      E

       
      On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 8:44 PM, David Anderson <netherby_uk@...> wrote:
      Peter,

      My feeling about this is that managers (ought) to make decisions. This is the value-added work that they do. Decisions can be about operational issues or process design issues (policies). Decisions are made against three main categories of work - tactical, operational, strategic.

      Hence, I think you have 4 work item types - process policy decisions plus 3 types of operational management decision.

      Tracking "decisions in progress" would be interesting. Some scope to discuss and design around options too. Wonder what the workflow is? That'd be interesting to map.

      David
      http://www.channelkanban.com

      --- In kanbandev@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <peter.hundermark@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > This is my first post, so please be gentle :-).
      >
      > The management team at an Agile client is keen to try using a Kanban board to visualise its own work. Does anyone have examples of a board layout, or any other tips to share?
      >
      > Peter
      >




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    • David Anderson
      ;-) yep! Now you are talking. Yes, I left the class of service element out of my initial reply to keep it up my sleeve for Peter s response. Yes, WIP limits
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 8, 2010
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        ;-) yep! Now you are talking.

        Yes, I left the class of service element out of my initial reply to keep it up my sleeve for Peter's response.

        Yes, WIP limits force people to think hard about options (and which decisions to bubble up). The result will be a changed culture and a whole new way of doing business. The combination of transparency and WIP limits on management decision making with a capacity allocated across types and classes of service would revolutionize how a business is run.

        It's exciting. I hope Peter makes it work. He'll be at #lssc11 telling us all about it if so! ;-) I'll invite him!

        David
        http://www.channelkanban.com/

        PS Note how we didn't have to change anything about Kanban to approach this different domain. ;-)

        --- In kanbandev@yahoogroups.com, Eric Willeke <eric.willeke@...> wrote:
        >
        > David, I like this approach. Consider combining this with classes of service
        > based on urgency and revokability (word?). This conscious step would help
        > ensure that urgent decisions are prioritized and also that less urgent
        > decisions are given the time evaluate options and develop consensus (as
        > opposed to making snap decisions out of habit).
        >
        > It also makes me wonder what would change in a culture that explicitly
        > limited decisions in progress for various levels. Teams below them would
        > have to achieve consensus on which deecisions are worth bubbling up,
        > especially knowing that the things they push up would become visible to all
        > teams across their level of the organization. Good culture of collaboration
        > or fear of ridicule?
        > E
        >
        >
        > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 8:44 PM, David Anderson <netherby_uk@...>wrote:
        >
        > > Peter,
        > >
        > > My feeling about this is that managers (ought) to make decisions. This is
        > > the value-added work that they do. Decisions can be about operational issues
        > > or process design issues (policies). Decisions are made against three main
        > > categories of work - tactical, operational, strategic.
        > >
        > > Hence, I think you have 4 work item types - process policy decisions plus 3
        > > types of operational management decision.
        > >
        > > Tracking "decisions in progress" would be interesting. Some scope to
        > > discuss and design around options too. Wonder what the workflow is? That'd
        > > be interesting to map.
        > >
        > > David
        > > http://www.channelkanban.com
        > >
        > > --- In kanbandev@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <peter.hundermark@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Hi,
        > > >
        > > > This is my first post, so please be gentle :-).
        > > >
        > > > The management team at an Agile client is keen to try using a Kanban
        > > board to visualise its own work. Does anyone have examples of a board
        > > layout, or any other tips to share?
        > > >
        > > > Peter
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > ------------------------------------
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups Links
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > >
        >
      • Dean
        We are working with a management Kanban board currently. While our Development Kanban is working well, our Management board is more problematic. A few lessons
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 9, 2010
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          We are working with a management Kanban board currently. While our Development Kanban is working well, our Management board is more problematic.

          A few lessons (re-)learned.

          Culture change is the key - and hard - and time consuming.
          Dragon slayers and super hero's won't like strict WIP limits, and they are often the leaders.
          Feeding the board with clear ideas is challenging (requires disciplined A3's).
          Everyone wants to be an idea person, not the execution person (ideas are a lot more fun).

          Kanban and problem solving can make a big impact on organizational performance.

          Good luck Peter. Persevere.

          Dean


          --- In kanbandev@yahoogroups.com, "David Anderson" <netherby_uk@...> wrote:
          >
          > ;-) yep! Now you are talking.
          >
          > Yes, I left the class of service element out of my initial reply to keep it up my sleeve for Peter's response.
          >
          > Yes, WIP limits force people to think hard about options (and which decisions to bubble up). The result will be a changed culture and a whole new way of doing business. The combination of transparency and WIP limits on management decision making with a capacity allocated across types and classes of service would revolutionize how a business is run.
          >
          > It's exciting. I hope Peter makes it work. He'll be at #lssc11 telling us all about it if so! ;-) I'll invite him!
          >
          > David
          > http://www.channelkanban.com/
          >
          > PS Note how we didn't have to change anything about Kanban to approach this different domain. ;-)
          >
          > --- In kanbandev@yahoogroups.com, Eric Willeke <eric.willeke@> wrote:
          > >
          > > David, I like this approach. Consider combining this with classes of service
          > > based on urgency and revokability (word?). This conscious step would help
          > > ensure that urgent decisions are prioritized and also that less urgent
          > > decisions are given the time evaluate options and develop consensus (as
          > > opposed to making snap decisions out of habit).
          > >
          > > It also makes me wonder what would change in a culture that explicitly
          > > limited decisions in progress for various levels. Teams below them would
          > > have to achieve consensus on which deecisions are worth bubbling up,
          > > especially knowing that the things they push up would become visible to all
          > > teams across their level of the organization. Good culture of collaboration
          > > or fear of ridicule?
          > > E
          > >
          > >
          > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 8:44 PM, David Anderson <netherby_uk@>wrote:
          > >
          > > > Peter,
          > > >
          > > > My feeling about this is that managers (ought) to make decisions. This is
          > > > the value-added work that they do. Decisions can be about operational issues
          > > > or process design issues (policies). Decisions are made against three main
          > > > categories of work - tactical, operational, strategic.
          > > >
          > > > Hence, I think you have 4 work item types - process policy decisions plus 3
          > > > types of operational management decision.
          > > >
          > > > Tracking "decisions in progress" would be interesting. Some scope to
          > > > discuss and design around options too. Wonder what the workflow is? That'd
          > > > be interesting to map.
          > > >
          > > > David
          > > > http://www.channelkanban.com
          > > >
          > > > --- In kanbandev@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <peter.hundermark@> wrote:
          > > > >
          > > > > Hi,
          > > > >
          > > > > This is my first post, so please be gentle :-).
          > > > >
          > > > > The management team at an Agile client is keen to try using a Kanban
          > > > board to visualise its own work. Does anyone have examples of a board
          > > > layout, or any other tips to share?
          > > > >
          > > > > Peter
          > > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > ------------------------------------
          > > >
          > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • comspy66
          Good points, Dean. Are you using a Kanban board to track the daily activities of the management team or only the continuous improvement tasks they are taking
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 10, 2010
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            Good points, Dean. Are you using a Kanban board to track the daily activities of the management team or only the continuous improvement tasks they are taking on? This is what we do at our small 8-person consulting company. We meet weekly to go over all improvement initiatives, think up new ones and move some to done. It's working really well so far.

            Cheers,
            Dadi.

            --- In kanbandev@yahoogroups.com, "Dean" <deanstevens@...> wrote:
            >
            > We are working with a management Kanban board currently. While our Development Kanban is working well, our Management board is more problematic.
            >
            > A few lessons (re-)learned.
            >
            > Culture change is the key - and hard - and time consuming.
            > Dragon slayers and super hero's won't like strict WIP limits, and they are often the leaders.
            > Feeding the board with clear ideas is challenging (requires disciplined A3's).
            > Everyone wants to be an idea person, not the execution person (ideas are a lot more fun).
            >
            > Kanban and problem solving can make a big impact on organizational performance.
            >
            > Good luck Peter. Persevere.
            >
            > Dean
            >
            >
            > --- In kanbandev@yahoogroups.com, "David Anderson" <netherby_uk@> wrote:
            > >
            > > ;-) yep! Now you are talking.
            > >
            > > Yes, I left the class of service element out of my initial reply to keep it up my sleeve for Peter's response.
            > >
            > > Yes, WIP limits force people to think hard about options (and which decisions to bubble up). The result will be a changed culture and a whole new way of doing business. The combination of transparency and WIP limits on management decision making with a capacity allocated across types and classes of service would revolutionize how a business is run.
            > >
            > > It's exciting. I hope Peter makes it work. He'll be at #lssc11 telling us all about it if so! ;-) I'll invite him!
            > >
            > > David
            > > http://www.channelkanban.com/
            > >
            > > PS Note how we didn't have to change anything about Kanban to approach this different domain. ;-)
            > >
            > > --- In kanbandev@yahoogroups.com, Eric Willeke <eric.willeke@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > David, I like this approach. Consider combining this with classes of service
            > > > based on urgency and revokability (word?). This conscious step would help
            > > > ensure that urgent decisions are prioritized and also that less urgent
            > > > decisions are given the time evaluate options and develop consensus (as
            > > > opposed to making snap decisions out of habit).
            > > >
            > > > It also makes me wonder what would change in a culture that explicitly
            > > > limited decisions in progress for various levels. Teams below them would
            > > > have to achieve consensus on which deecisions are worth bubbling up,
            > > > especially knowing that the things they push up would become visible to all
            > > > teams across their level of the organization. Good culture of collaboration
            > > > or fear of ridicule?
            > > > E
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 8:44 PM, David Anderson <netherby_uk@>wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > Peter,
            > > > >
            > > > > My feeling about this is that managers (ought) to make decisions. This is
            > > > > the value-added work that they do. Decisions can be about operational issues
            > > > > or process design issues (policies). Decisions are made against three main
            > > > > categories of work - tactical, operational, strategic.
            > > > >
            > > > > Hence, I think you have 4 work item types - process policy decisions plus 3
            > > > > types of operational management decision.
            > > > >
            > > > > Tracking "decisions in progress" would be interesting. Some scope to
            > > > > discuss and design around options too. Wonder what the workflow is? That'd
            > > > > be interesting to map.
            > > > >
            > > > > David
            > > > > http://www.channelkanban.com
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In kanbandev@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <peter.hundermark@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Hi,
            > > > > >
            > > > > > This is my first post, so please be gentle :-).
            > > > > >
            > > > > > The management team at an Agile client is keen to try using a Kanban
            > > > > board to visualise its own work. Does anyone have examples of a board
            > > > > layout, or any other tips to share?
            > > > > >
            > > > > > Peter
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > ------------------------------------
            > > > >
            > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
          • Peter
            Thanks for all the helpful replies. I have relayed a précis to the CEO, who is the owner and driver of this initiative. I may be involved further or they may
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 11, 2010
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              Thanks for all the helpful replies. I have relayed a précis to the CEO, who is the owner and driver of this initiative. I may be involved further or they may continue this on their own. They are good people leading a 100-person tech. organisation.

              Peter

              --- In kanbandev@yahoogroups.com, "Peter" <peter.hundermark@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi,
              >
              > This is my first post, so please be gentle :-).
              >
              > The management team at an Agile client is keen to try using a Kanban board to visualise its own work. Does anyone have examples of a board layout, or any other tips to share?
              >
              > Peter
              >
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