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Re: whither reality checks (was Re: [kanbandev] Re: Organizational Maturity)

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  • Alan Dayley
    ... Isn t that a good reason to hire an (agile, self-organizing, hip, cool, cutting-edge, whatever) coach or consultant? Once in a while, get an outsider
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 3, 2011
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      On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Raoul Duke <raould@...> wrote:
      >
      > point being that it seems to be common in software development, and
      > probably in human nature, to think that whatever it is we are doing,
      > and whatever labels we put on it (agile, self-organizing, hip, cool,
      > cutting-edge, whatever), we are probably fooling ourselves more than
      > we are being accurate.
      >
      > so then: how do we get reality checks? does it have to wait until the layoffs?

      Isn't that a good reason to hire an (agile, self-organizing, hip,
      cool, cutting-edge, whatever) coach or consultant? Once in a while,
      get an outsider view?

      Also, participation in user groups and taking refresher or new courses
      exposes one to new ideas, new points of view. I get great value out
      of such things, allowing me to better see myself and the teams I work
      with. Sometimes the view is negative, sometimes gratifying.

      Alan
    • Helen Wu
      Organization evolves, sometimes, evolves violently (i.e., revolutionary), or
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 3, 2011
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        <<so then: how do we get reality checks? does it have to wait until the layoffs?>>

        Organization evolves, sometimes, evolves violently (i.e., revolutionary), or dies via M&A.

        --- On Thu, 2/3/11, Raoul Duke <raould@...> wrote:

        From: Raoul Duke <raould@...>
        Subject: whither reality checks (was Re: [kanbandev] Re: Organizational Maturity)
        To: kanbandev@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Thursday, February 3, 2011, 6:52 PM

         

        On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 4:21 PM, Julian Everett <julian.everett@...> wrote:
        > I'm afraid I don't buy the concept of self-organisation as being of use or relevance to organisations. In the natural world, constructive self-organisation is an extreme edge case. Almost all self-organisation tends towards chaos (i.e. entropic disintegration), it's just that natural selection kills off the 99.999% of dysfunctional self-organisations. Viewed from a distance this creates the illusion that self-organisation leads to improvement, but what it hides is the massive failure rate entailed.

        wow, hm, compelling and interesting things here. it rings true to me;
        although it is sorta "viewed from inside" -- i think i've felt that
        way about other things i've seen at work places. people do things and
        think they are doing well, if only because they aren't as broken as
        some other team in the company, but i'm sitting there thinking that
        really they aren't too great, and then sure enough oh layoffs around
        the corner etc.

        point being that it seems to be common in software development, and
        probably in human nature, to think that whatever it is we are doing,
        and whatever labels we put on it (agile, self-organizing, hip, cool,
        cutting-edge, whatever), we are probably fooling ourselves more than
        we are being accurate.

        so then: how do we get reality checks? does it have to wait until the layoffs?

        sincerely.


      • Helen Wu
        Hello, Alan. ... the layoffs? ... To me, even if there may be solutions within, the solutions from outside are usually preferred. A Chinese proverb says:
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 3, 2011
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          Hello, Alan.

          >> so then: how do we get reality checks? does it have to wait until
          the layoffs?

          >Isn't that a good reason to hire an (agile, self-organizing, hip,
          >cool, cutting-edge, whatever) coach or consultant? Once in a while,
          >get an outsider view?

          To me, even if there may be solutions within, the solutions from outside are usually preferred.

          A Chinese proverb says: external Monk interprets scriptures easier than internal Monk. 

          Thanks,
          Helen



          --- On Thu, 2/3/11, Alan Dayley <alandd@...> wrote:

          From: Alan Dayley <alandd@...>
          Subject: Re: whither reality checks (was Re: [kanbandev] Re: Organizational Maturity)
          To: kanbandev@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Thursday, February 3, 2011, 8:19 PM

           

          On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 5:52 PM, Raoul Duke <raould@...> wrote:
          >
          > point being that it seems to be common in software development, and
          > probably in human nature, to think that whatever it is we are doing,
          > and whatever labels we put on it (agile, self-organizing, hip, cool,
          > cutting-edge, whatever), we are probably fooling ourselves more than
          > we are being accurate.
          >
          > so then: how do we get reality checks? does it have to wait until the layoffs?

          Isn't that a good reason to hire an (agile, self-organizing, hip,
          cool, cutting-edge, whatever) coach or consultant? Once in a while,
          get an outsider view?

          Also, participation in user groups and taking refresher or new courses
          exposes one to new ideas, new points of view. I get great value out
          of such things, allowing me to better see myself and the teams I work
          with. Sometimes the view is negative, sometimes gratifying.

          Alan


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