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Re: Compassion WAS: Free Tibet Rasisme/Racism

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  • conebeckham
    ... There has to be a limit to how we apply compassion, don t you think? Or can compassion be applied without rescuing or changing what is taking place? ...
    Message 1 of 18 , Aug 4, 2002
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      --- In kagyu@y..., "Ayrielle" <ayrielle@a...> wrote:

      >
      There has to be a limit to how we apply compassion, don't you
      think? Or can compassion be applied without "rescuing" or changing
      what is taking place?
      >
      > I don't think of compassion as "feeling sorry" or "pitty" for
      someone...to me it is more of an empathy...
      >


      Altuism with reference to individuals, or even groups of beings, is
      laudable, and certainly is associated with compassion in its normal
      sense.

      But the compassion we should all be trying to generate, and the only
      real "compassion" which serves our purposes (liberating all beings
      from Samsara), is nonreferential compassion, the compassion without
      reference point. The best approximation to this compassion, for
      those of us not passed beyond dualistic distinctions between self
      and other, is the compassion which arises when we realize that all
      beings, including ourselves, suffer entirely due to their mistaken
      clinging to such dualistic view. Due to our ignorance, we continue
      to think in terms of self vs. other, USA vs. China, Tibet Vs. China,
      or what-have-you. We should certainly do what we can to allay our
      own and other's temporary suffering, but I would suggest that our
      focus should be on developing our accumulations of merit and wisdom,
      through our practice of meditation and the other paramitas. It may
      take a bit longer (!), but only through perfecting our accumulations
      can we experience the truly liberating compassion, the compassion
      beyond words, beyond reference point, and beyond dualism.

      Compassionate action which focuses on a dualistic reference point
      may be part of perfecting our accumulations, but it is hard to say
      for certain whether the results of such actions are meritorious in
      the first place. Boycotts and political action are temporary, and
      their effects are uncertain, as others have already discussed. On
      the other hand, practice according to one's teacher's instructions
      has "permanent" benefit, and the effects of such practice are
      certain.

      Use your time and energy wisely.

      Best,
      Cone
    • wildblueindigo
      ... The first four questions are paraphrases of mahayana guidelines for beneficial actions. The fifth was added to clarify the non-dual frame of mind required
      Message 2 of 18 , Aug 5, 2002
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        --- In kagyu@y..., "Ayrielle" <ayrielle@a...> wrote:

        > ***Very good questions...I believe my answer to all of them is yes.

        >(1) Are we being generous? (2) Are we providing what is needed? (3)
        >Are we helping to remove obstacles to the practice of the
        >buddhadharma? (4) Are we a living example of what we say and do? (5)
        >Are we acting with equanimity?


        The first four questions are paraphrases of mahayana guidelines for
        beneficial actions. The fifth was added to clarify the non-dual
        frame of mind required for beneficial actions. Of generous giving,
        giving dharma surpasses giving material goods or protection from fear.


        >And my
        >philosophy is well thought out, as I cave been contemplating it for
        >several
        >years.


        The buddhadharma surpasses what all systems of mere conceptualization
        can possibly achieve toward accomplishing the welfare of all beings.
        It teaches that conceptualizations are limiting even though they are
        essential for taking us beyond where we are. Conceptualization in
        the end obscures our view and thus prevents us from benefiting all
        sentient beings in anything more than temporary ways.



        >***A blanket boycott of all Chinese products is not what I am
        >suggesting. We
        >still buy rice, tea and silk, etc...


        And they in return will only buy big cars, coyboy boots and ten-
        gallon hats? :>)



        >***As I said, everything causes harm to someone...I think the idea
        >is to cause
        >the least amount of harm....


        There are three things we vow to give up when we take refuge in the
        Three Jewels. We vow to give up doing harm to others, even in our
        dreams, among other things.


        >the question is: Who decides what is harmful or
        >not?


        This type of thinking will only confuse, not clarify, the issues. It
        is grounded in projected dualisms.


        >Even the bee sting may be more of a well learned lesson than it is
        >harm done.

        Confirming the vital significance of view in shaping the quality of
        one's presence...


        >Is it harmful to swat a 2 year old's wrist as he is reaching for the
        >hot stove?
        >Or is it a demonstration of compassion, teqaching the child NOT to
        >reach for
        >the stove in the first place?


        This is a classic example of how lovingkindness may be expressed in
        a 'wrathful' way.


        >Even washing the dishes is harmful to the germs
        >we are killing.

        Of what good will you be to others if you die of preventable disease
        while you have the very rare opportunity of precious life conditions
        to enter the path of buddhadharma? The Perfection Vehicle and the
        Mantra Vehicle teach us to take care of ourselves that we may
        unconditionally benefit others.


        >There has to be a limit to how we apply compassion, don't you
        >think?


        Ultimately, no. We apply it in limited ways because we are not fully
        ripened beings, having yet to realize non-dual wisdom and compassion
        as Truth and Form Bodies.

        >Or can compassion be applied without "rescuing" or changing what is
        >taking place?

        If it is being "applied," that is, if it is separate, it is a
        temporary fix for samsaric existence that will bring only temporary
        benefit, if that. Mahayana Buddhism teaches both the Profound and
        Vast methods to take us beyond this samsaric quagmire.


        wildblueindigo






        The root of the Buddha's teachings is the morality of the vinaya.
        Without this, even if you are called a practitioner, you are still a
        samsaric person. Therefore, guard your discipline as you would guard
        your eyes. (from Jewel Treasury of Advice)
      • yangchen_lhamo
        Hi, wbi. ... I d never heard of this one before. Could you please talk about this more? If one were having lucid dreams (with some degree of control), it
        Message 3 of 18 , Aug 5, 2002
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          Hi, wbi.

          --- In kagyu@y..., "wildblueindigo" <mccleary@i...> wrote:
          > There are three things we vow to give up when we take refuge in the
          > Three Jewels. We vow to give up doing harm to others, even in our
          > dreams, among other things.
          >

          I'd never heard of this one before. Could you please talk about this
          more? If one were having lucid dreams (with some degree of control),
          it would be easier. But as I suspect that many of us (me included)
          mostly dream the sort of samsaric play of the mind, with some
          exceptions, throughout the night, it might include harming some other
          illusionary being. And who knows the effects the mind's conceptions
          may have, as we are largely unconscious at these times? Perhaps this
          is to be viewed in the same way as unconsciously stepping on an ant
          or some other action that we can have remorse over, and applying the
          antidote of compassion.

          I'd love to hear your thoughts - or if you can point me to some
          teaching on refuge that covers this. Thanks. (I am a prolific
          dreamer, and am striving to develop more lucidity, but it looks like
          it will take time for me to master this.)

          Stirling
        • wildblueindigo
          ... the ... this ... Hi Sterling, Admittedly I have only seen this in a Nyingma teaching, but it makes sense to me. In Patrul Rinpoche s KUNZANG LAMA I
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 5, 2002
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            --- In kagyu@y..., "yangchen_lhamo" <yangchen_lhamo@y...> wrote:
            > Hi, wbi.
            >
            > --- In kagyu@y..., "wildblueindigo" <mccleary@i...> wrote:
            > > There are three things we vow to give up when we take refuge in
            the
            > > Three Jewels. We vow to give up doing harm to others, even in our
            > > dreams, among other things.
            > >
            >
            > I'd never heard of this one before. Could you please talk about
            this
            > more?


            Hi Sterling,

            Admittedly I have only seen this in a Nyingma teaching, but it makes
            sense to me. In Patrul Rinpoche's KUNZANG LAMA'I SHELUG, or "The
            Words of My Perfect Teacher" (Boston: Shambhala Publications, Inc,
            1994, 1998), under the section "Precepts and Benefits of Taking
            Refuge" one finds:

            "1. The precepts of taking refuge.
            The precepts consist of three things to be abandoned, three things to
            be done, and three additional attitudes which are to be observed.

            1.1 THE THREE THINGS TO BE ABANDONED

            Having taken refuge in the Buddha, do not pay homage to deities
            within samsara....Having taken refuge in the Dharma, do not harm
            others, even in your dreams. Make vigorous efforts to protect them to
            the best of your ability. Having taken refuge in the Sangha, do not
            get involved with tirthikas and other such people who do not believe
            in the teaching of the Conquerors or in the perfect Buddha who taught
            it...those who insult and criticize your teacher and the Dharma, for
            instance, or who denigrate the profound teachings of Secret
            Mantrayana." (183)


            >If one were having lucid dreams (with some degree of control),
            > it would be easier. But as I suspect that many of us (me included)
            > mostly dream the sort of samsaric play of the mind, with some
            > exceptions, throughout the night, it might include harming some
            >other illusionary being. And who knows the effects the mind's
            >conceptions may have, as we are largely unconscious at these times?
            >Perhaps this is to be viewed in the same way as unconsciously
            >stepping on an ant or some other action that we can have remorse
            >over, and applying the
            > antidote of compassion.
            >
            > I'd love to hear your thoughts - or if you can point me to some
            > teaching on refuge that covers this. Thanks. (I am a prolific
            > dreamer, and am striving to develop more lucidity, but it looks
            >like it will take time for me to master this.)


            Have you seen Namkhai Norbu's "Dream Yoga and the Practice of Natural
            Light" (Ithaca, New York: Snow Lion Publications, 1992)?

            May your dreams be lucid!

            wildblueindigo
          • yangchen_lhamo
            Thanks, wild blue indigo. I really appreciate the information. And yes, I have seen that book by Rinpoche. I have not bought it yet, but now seems like a
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 5, 2002
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              Thanks, wild blue indigo. I really appreciate the information.

              And yes, I have seen that book by Rinpoche. I have not bought it
              yet, but now seems like a logical time to do so. I was using some of
              the advice from an excerpt from that book and found it really
              helpful. Maybe I should credit that source with any progress I've
              actually made in doing lucid dreaming! (I tried to post a reply
              before but Yahoo kicked me off - so if it shows up somewhere, forgive
              the repetitious post.)

              Anyway, I still have mental obscurations in my waking life that spill
              over into my dreamtime, so until I am more free of emotional
              attachments, no doubt I will not attain the lucid state very often.

              So, I'm looking forward to getting the book and doing it from the
              beginning this time. Always a good idea, especially for one who
              tends to be lazy and look for short-cuts, like me. ;)

              Stirling



              --- In kagyu@y..., "wildblueindigo" <mccleary@i...> wrote:
              > Have you seen Namkhai Norbu's "Dream Yoga and the Practice of
              Natural
              > Light" (Ithaca, New York: Snow Lion Publications, 1992)?
              >
              > May your dreams be lucid!
              >
              > wildblueindigo
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