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Re: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory..

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  • Sunaparantha Kalyan
    Dear Friends, Herewith I have reproduced a copy of page No. 23 of Astrology & Athrishta - Vol 14. Sept. 1976,(edited by K. Subramaniam, son of late Guruji Sri
    Message 1 of 115 , Mar 4 6:45 AM
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    Dear Friends,

    Herewith I have reproduced a copy of page No. 23 of Astrology & Athrishta - Vol 14. Sept. 1976,(edited by K. Subramaniam, son of late Guruji Sri KSK) which contained an advertisement of Gem Stones, for your interest.

    Regards

    Kalyan
     
    Sabbe Saththaa Bhawanthu Sukhithaththaa



    From: Punit Pandey <punitp@...>
    To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Sunday, 4 March 2012 6:55 PM
    Subject: Re: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory..

     
    Dear Senthil ji & Friends,

    1. Gemstone is already established field, whoever want to disprove/ reject Gemstone should present cases.  This forum is very clear as far as challenging established theories are concerned. 

    2. We know astrologers are very good in post-mortem and failure when it comes to predictions. Quiz is a good example of this. If anybody will present any case people will quickly reject with their post-mortem skills. Rejecting is very easy any theory especially if one is ignorant and doesn't understand it. This is what scientist community do to astrology - easily reject astrology. 

    Thanks & Regards,

    Punit Pandey


    On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Senthil <athi_ram@...> wrote:
    Dear All,
     
    Those who believe that the GEM changed the person's life events (or) reduced the Malefic effects of planets may please present the live charts DOBs,POBs & TOBs of those native with details to Mr.Lajami to verify the validity and to bring some conclusion for this thread.
     
    GOOD LUCK!!
     
    D.Senthil

    --- On Fri, 3/2/12, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@...> wrote:

    From: Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@...>

    Subject: Re: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory..
    To: "k_p_system@yahoogroups.com" <k_p_system@yahoogroups.com>
    Date: Friday, March 2, 2012, 7:21 AM

     
    Dear Punit ji,
                         That is precisely why, I wonder why you haven't, as yet, nor has anybody else, been able to send me as single authenticated example,with the so-called beneficiaries' DOBs,POBs & TOBs...and details of the date of the remedy's use,and the date on which effect was perceived...
                         BTW, Parasar is not the only person...one should give credit to...
                         No offence is meant please...
                         With regards and best wishes,
                         Yogesh Lajmi.
                                                       GOOD LUCK !
                         
                         

    From: Punit Pandey <punitp@...>
    To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Friday, 2 March 2012 11:47 AM
    Subject: Re: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory..
     
    Dear Yogesh ji,

    Just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for anybody. It is like saying that if one person ever died, the whole medical science is fraud. Strange argument.

    Regarding Parashara, just for your kind information the astrology that you use is Parashara astrology only. Planet, House, Sign, Nakshatra, Aspects, Sub, Dasa everything is Parashara astrology. Remedies are part of the same Parashara astrology. You know planetary movement calculation and prediction used to be part of Jyotisha. You are like modern scientist who say that though planetary movement calculation by Indian astrologers are correct but predictive part is fraud. Praise and condemn selectively without verifying. 

    I say what I experiment. I do not talk based on one case, neither I talk illogical and challenge here and there. 
    Thanks & Regards, Punit Pandey
    On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 11:43 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@...> wrote:
    Dear Punit,
                      This is the nth time I inform you that it is from my personal experience...of several years...I've told you that to test this theory I have worn a Navaratna ring,a saphphire-studded ring and a diamond studded ring for the last over six years or more...but there has been perceptible effect at all,of any kind... !
                       If you not been observant enough it's very unfortunate...there asre many things said by Parasar which are no longer valid today...
                       Perhaps you have not noticed such happenings because you seem to have taken it to be the epitome of truth...therefore if you insist on thinking that Gems do have some value...good luck to you...! !
                       Yogesh Lajmi.
                                                       GOOD LUCK !
                      
                    

    From: Punit Pandey <punitp@...>To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2012 11:01 PM
    Subject: Re: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory..
     
    Dear Yogesh ji,

    It is you who should present cases rather than others to ask for cases. Whoever challenges already established should present cases. Gemstones and remedies are already established field and introduced by the same sage (sage Parashara) who introduced astrology itself 

    This case is similar to challenging KP rules. If somebody challenges KP rules, s/he will have to present cases to disapprove and not the other way because KP rules are already established. In this forum we always ask to present 100 cases to disapprove any existing established rule. As gemstones and remedies are already established rules, you should present cases.
    Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey
    On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 6:04 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@...> wrote:
     
    Dear Kausik,
                         If that was my personal opinion...what was yours and Punit's letter about not your personal opinions...yet... none has so far presented me with an authenticated case of "benefits accrued" by the wearer of a GEM or a number of GEMS...
                        Kausik,I have practised Traditional Astrology since 1957-58 and switched to K.P. in 1975-76...and learnt from the Master himself...
                        Whatever I had written was from my own hard experience of years of observation and studying numerous Birth Charts...and numerous visits to many a Pilgrimage Centre in India...and mingling with Tantriks/Maantriks and what-have-you... I have first hand information and experience of whatever I have written...not bookish knowledge...
                        After having witnessed how the innocent and the gullible allow themselves to be conned by the experienced and well-trained conmen masquerading as astrologers/taantriks/maantriks all roled in one...I met many a Nadi-astrologer too...and have closely looked deep into the goings-on at various "pilgrimage" centres...You seem to have forgotten the famous movie Sanghursh...where the Pandas of Benares and their "secrets" were revealed...in a tellin manner...
                        I have also seen and documented years ago during my college days when we had a to undergo various experiences and write essays on them...during our vacations...when I visited quite a few pilgrimage centres...I found for example,that childless couples promised Lord Venkateshwara at Tirupathi a golden/silver cradle...provided their wish for having a child was fulfilled...(the question arose in my young mind then was...        "Can God be bribed ?"...and so on....I then visited the temple every day for one week,and saw the same thing...but i began asking questions and was "stumped" when I learnt that those who got a child Tom-tommed the world over that Lord Venkateshwara had answered their prayers and granted them a boon...by way of a bonny baby...! Myinvestigations later showed me that approximately only ONE out of TEN childless couples got a child...but the 9 who did not get a child simple kepth their mouths SHUT...what would have happened if they had Tom-Tommed all over that they did not get a child,inspite of promising to bribe God. ? !
                         For your information just for experiment's sake I am wearing a Navratna ring,a saphphire mounted on a gold ring and also a diamond ring since 6 years now...without any effects...!
                        Now,pl. don't give me silly explanations...I have heard atleast a thousand from astrologers and gem-dealers when challenged... !
                        I suggest that you too make your own study and I'm sure you'll reach the same conclusion I had...! Come on Try it... don't play to popular belief...in such myths...
                        Some other time I;ll write you more on my own research...in such "popular belifs"...
                        Till such time,wishing you the very best,
                        Yogesh Lajmi.
                   
                       
              

    From: Kausik Roy <kausik.roy@...>
    To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Thursday, 1 March 2012 12:41 PM
    Subject: Re: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory..
     
    I fully Support Sh. Punit ji's comment & logical points regarding the issue, and I personally request Lajmi ji not to generalise your personal views/observations regarding gemstones.
    this issue should be closed here
    On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 12:06 AM, Punit Pandey <punitp@...> wrote:
     
    Dear Yogesh ji,

    1. "Remedies are fraud" is not a logical argument but just your opinion. If you do not understand something doesn't make that a fraud but make you an ignorant. 

    2. You say "NO science of any kind behind their use". This is true for astrology itself. Modern science doesn't recognize astrology and call astrologer "fraud". Just because science is not able to recognize astrology, does that make you a fraud?

    3. Regarding "when good time begins,people wear Gems and the success is attributed to the Gems", I must say that is true for medicine as well. A people can get medical assistance and hence cure only in good time. That doesn't make all doctors fraud. Does it?

    I know that your objective behind harsh criticism is good as there are more cheats than genuine people in the field of gemstone/ remedies field. But that doesn't make the whole subject fraud. Without understanding the subject, you are doing the same thing as so called scientific community does to astrology.  
    Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey
    On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@...> wrote:
    Dear Punit,
                      Remedies are a FRAUD...there is NO science of any kind behind their use...as far as the Light rays passing through Gems being imparted some qualities/properties by the gem...is not scientific at all,even Astrologers and the various Systems of Astrology themselves are divided...over when a gem is benefic or malefic...and which gem is suitable for use...whether the one ruled by the XIth Lord or XIth Sublord or the IInd Lord or Sublord or the Ascendant's Lord or Sublord and...OR...the MOON's Sign lord,Starlord or Sublord ...and on which finger it should be worn,and whether in a gold ring or a silver ring and so on...or copper ring etc.,and so on and on...
                     At this rate people like the famous Bhappi Lahiri people should wear a gemstone on every finger...? ! !
                    (Soon perhaps we might see even Ladies wear different Gems on different toes...toe-specific gems ?)
                     I have also seen such "sights' in Bengal,Orissa & Bihar...people wearing a different gem on each of his ten fingers including the thumb... where there is a definite Astrologer-Jeweller nexus is known to operate...!
                     As our Guruji Jyotish Marthand K.S.Krishnamurthiji, has said often,"when good time begins,people wear Gems and the success is attributed to the Gems"...! ! ! 
                     I am speaking from my experience after verifying these obsevations of our revered Guruji...also several stalwarts in K.P. and brilliant students of KSK have also verified these facts...                 Kindly ponder over this...such irrational and blind belief of the uneducated as well as the "educated" gullible,are being "trapped" very cleverly by this centuries old nexuses,operating in almost every pilgimage centre in India that is Bharat..
                     The same can be said for Remedies,Yagnyas,Homas and what have you...So far NOBODY has presented me with a SINGLE authenticated case proving the efficacy of Gems or other "remedies"...
                     I have challenged every one,on various astrological sites as well as sent e-mails to the Famous(?),Dati Guruji and others like the Delhi based practitioner of Lal Kitab...who used to appear on TV earlier and even the present "expert" on Lal Kitab...but there is no answer...simply because they do not have any...
                     Lal Kitab was NEVER written by Pt.Shukla...at all...! If at all,it was recited/composed in the Farsi Language the lingua franca at the time...
                     Do you believe that feeding ten crows on a particular day of the week with a particular Dal etc really help...? HOW MORE GULLIBLE CAN ONE BE...such lay people who fall prey to such nonsense deserve to be fooled...!
                    Your response is invited...
                    With the very best wishes,
                    Yogesh Lajmi.
                                                       GOOD LUCK !
                   
     
    From: Punit Pandey <punitp@...>To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Wednesday, 29 February 2012 6:51 PM
    Subject: Re: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory..
     
    Dear Yogesh ji,

    I agree with your Karma theory. I just wanted to point out double standard of some astrologers as well as general public. 

    If astrologers suggesting gemstones/ remedies are fraud, so does doctors suggesting medicines. None of them can alter Karma. Both try to treat with the information available to them and without any control on future. We can not say that astrologer suggesting gemstone is cheat and doctors suggesting medicine is great. Both are doing their duties without power to alter karma. 
    Thanks & Regards,Punit Pandey
    On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 8:51 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@...> wrote:
     
    Dear Punit,
                      It is like preparing for,and appearing for an Exam or interview...we do our best(Karma),but the result is dependant on one's Fate and totally not under our control...even the student who usually stood first in his class could get only a First Class by missing even a Disttinction,let alone, standing First in the University or School or Board...The Result depends totally on one's Kaarmic Destiny...!
                      With kind regards,
                      Yogesh Lajmi.
                                                      GOOD LUCK !
     

    ----- Forwarded Message -----
    From: Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@...>
    To: "k_p_system@yahoogroups.com" <k_p_system@yahoogroups.com>
    Cc: Punit Panday <punitp@...>
    Sent: Tuesday, 28 February 2012 4:05 PM
    Subject: Re: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory..
    Dear Punit,
                      Again,you are resorting to give irrelevant examples and which are not "to the context"...The Karma theory DOES NOT SAY THAT ONE SHOULD DO NOTHING AT ALL...one should do what he should,but the "fruits" of our efforts should be left to Fate/Destiny... !
                      Am getting the impression that you are indulging in "arguing for the sake of arguing..." ! !
                      With kind regards,
                      Yogesh Lajmi.
                                                        GOOD LUCK !

    From: Punit Pandey <punitp@...>
    To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Tuesday, 28 February 2012 11:43 AM
    Subject: Re: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory..
     
    Dear Friends,

    There are astrologers who say that gemstones/ remedies do not work because everything is destined. Do they also say that doctor's medicine doesn't work because everything is predestined. Knowing this, do they go to doctor or not?
    Thanks & Regards, Punit Pandey
    On Tue, Feb 28, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Punit Pandey <punitp@...> wrote:
    Dear Yogesh ji,

    Challenging is very easy. This is what those so called rationalists do to astrology and keep challenging astrologers to prove astrology. You are doing no different. You are challenging other people to prove remedy, the same way other will come back and challenge you to prove astrology. No end to that. 

    We all know that there is no way to verify whether the change is due to gemstone/ remedy or it was destined. There is hardly any doubt that there are large number of people who vouch for gemstones/ remedies. This is similar to the people who vouch for astrology .. whether you are able to prove or not able to prove. 
    Thanks & Regards, Punit Pandey
    On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 8:55 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@...> wrote:
     
    Dear Mr.Rao Chitturu,
                                        I do not want to labour the point,but even the Kanchi Guru,et al, firmly believed that Fate cannot be altered...only when one is running a good period one will approach for and make use of "A Remedy",and then give the needless credit to the remedy... !
                                        This has been proven by hundreds of K.P. Students all over India...in the alternative I have consistently challenged and I repeat the challenge...pl give one concrete real-life case wher a 'remedy' has worked along with the person's Name,POB,DOB & TOB...I shall convince YOU OR ANYBODY...for that matter.
                                        Come on Rao Chitturu...accept the challenge...else stop propagating MYTHS...!
                                        Yogesh Lajmi.
                     

    From: rao chitturu <csr162002@...>
    To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com
    Sent: Monday, 27 February 2012 8:26 PM
    Subject: Re: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory..
     
    Thank you babu ji,
    Good information 
    C.S.Rao--- On Mon, 27/2/12, babukrcbe <babukrcbe@...> wrote:
    From: babukrcbe <babukrcbe@...>Subject: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory..To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.comDate: Monday, 27 February, 2012, 8:41 AM
     
    Dear Rao Ji Very good reasoning... I like your thoughts. In addition, few opine that fate is destined and cannot be changed (even brahma cannot change) etc. I humbly disagree that because with discipline, devotion and dedication, the extent of bad karma can be greatly reduced. I have seen/read that great gurus have reduced the bad karma of many sincere disciples. To name a few, Kanchi Periyava, Shirdi Baba, Swami Sridhara, Mahavtar Babaji, Lahiri Baba and other gurus. But one cannot expect wearing a Gem will protect all bad deeds he/she does. One needs to change within himself for good and seek divine help, sure Supreme will be waiting for you to help. Regards Babu --- In k_p_system@yahoogroups.com, rao chitturu <csr162002@...> wrote: > > Mr.Dinesh Khandal,  > This is a simple but good question .But the answer is too common.Gem therapy is a part of REMEDIAL MEASURES - Other methods are Mantra, Medicine etc., Here we need to see - what is a Remedy - how it works? Before that the method of remedies are prevalent since ages in all parts of the world. It has gone to the extant of saying that "there is no value for astrological readings without prescribing a remedy for critical times. If astrology do not suggest a remedy it is like a clinical test without prescribing medicinal treatment". Every human being want a solution in critical time and aspire for a source for salvation. See the remedies in this context. Coming to the part of the utility of any remedy it is like what we see in medical treatment. Some diseases are immediately and totally curable - some diseases get chronic and some are leading to death. Why? Obviously it depends on the intensity of disease developed. Similarly - the remedies in > astrology are based to clear the effects of previous bad karma - some times to enhance the effects of good karma- The end result of the remedy depends on the 1) intensity of previous bad karma involved  and, 2) the fate and free will of the person using the remedy. Now compare this with criminology and penal code- some crimes are excusable and some are punishable to the extent of life imprisonment / death sentence. In between these two is the ultimate solution in using the remedies lies. The exact stage of benefit out of a remedy is the result of a fight between fate and free will of the native involved. In present day set up - remedial field - has become commercial - like any other field- and the values are going down ---People are also craving for fast tract remedies at cheaper cost - without trying to improve their code of discipline . So the failures in remedies and negative results are seen. This is leaving to present doubts on remedial > theories. Some astrologers are going to the extant of saying that one has to suffer the bad fate and no remedy will work. This is mainly because of the reason - the astrologer do not want the native to fall pray of the commercial world - and also not to lead the native to a wrong track. However,  a General remedy is to develop code of discipline in daily life- seek divine help regularly on default.One should deserve and desire. If the aspirations are high - it is not bad- but let him improve his eligibility for higher ambitions. Develop free will with divine help and kill previous bad karma (fate) . Whole game is Fate Vs.Freewill. Every one of us is developing free will straight from the moment of birth and deviating from birth chart- the job of astrologer is to see how far one has deviated and to what good/bad extent the deviation is ? and How he would / should proceed further?? - At one stage Astrology is to be studied with Karma theory for better > results.I wish to end this now - it is getting too long and even too far from the question raised.C.S.Rao > > --- On Sat, 25/2/12, Dinesh Khandal <dkhandal17@...> wrote: > > From: Dinesh Khandal <dkhandal17@...> > Subject: [k_p_system] Gem's Science.......? > To: "k_p_system@yahoogroups.com" <k_p_system@yahoogroups.com> > Date: Saturday, 25 February, 2012, 10:48 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >   > > > > > > > > > > Respected Astrologer's                         Greetings...! > What is actual SCIENCE  behind The GEM'S............?How they work........?When we decide 1st----marriage promised or not and our answer is NO then how GEMS work........? > Thanks & Regards. > Dinesh Khandal. >
    --
    Regards;
     
    Kausik Roy
    (M)09330997792



  • Dhirendra Nath Misra
    Dear all,               I simply ask that what is the use of astrology,if it is simply informative to some extent.Many of you may dare to say that
    Message 115 of 115 , Mar 12 12:27 PM
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      Dear all,
                    I simply ask that what is the use of astrology,if it is simply informative to some extent.Many of you may dare to say that remedies do not work,then why you people are wasting your valuable time here.No science -no art other than astrology can tell you your life span.Suppose with the help of astro rules you are told about your date and time of your death.Would you like to wait for your time of death or  you would like to try your best to over come your imminent death by some means that is called astro remedies though death is inevitable.This is the reason that making prediction  of date and time of death is said to be unethical and it is not predicted even if it is know to many of you and you keep silent or tell the consultant some prayers to recite or astro remedies to ward off evil effect of planets,if the consultant is alive.The same process is administered by greatest physician when a sinking patient is brought before him.At once the physician will administer life saving medicines without pondering over any idea of guarantee.It may work or it may not work.The sinking patient would die sooner or later,if life saving medicines did not respond to work.But no one knows that it will work.But the medical profession is not closed for ever due to death of any one or due to death of many millions.But one thing is sure that how to administer life saving medicine is best known to well qualified and experienced physician or surgeon of reputed medical colleges and effort made by simply RMP
       will not be satisfactory in mostly all cases.Similarly suggesting astro remedies is not the work of ordinary astrologer rather it is the work of DAIVAGYA.A DAIVAGYA do not ask your birth particulars to cast your chart and to check if cure is promised or not.
      With thanks and regards, 
      Dhirendra Nath Misra.
       


      From: K. P. Naidu <konathalan@...>
      To: "k_p_system@yahoogroups.com" <k_p_system@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Monday, March 12, 2012 7:41 PM
      Subject: Re: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory..

       
      Dear Mr.Mishra Ji,

      What was the Natal Planetary position, DBAS and Transit at the time of successful result of Remedies like Gems, rudrakshas etc., needs to be found out whether favourable to the event of reference.  If it was favourable,  is it horoscope effect or remedies effect is a matter of discussion. If Horoscope position was unfavourable and still the remedies give successful results, it is again matter of discussion of the need and study of astrology whether KP or vedic.
      Knowledge is ocean.  we know speck in the ocean. 

      Thanks & Regards.
      Naidu KP
       
      K. P. Naidu,
      Flat E-1, Prince Aptmts.,
      Nowroji Road,
      Maharanipeta,
      VISAKHAPATNAM 530002.
      Phone Resi: 0891-2712591.

      From: tmatri <tmatri@...>
      To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, 12 March 2012 1:09 AM
      Subject: Re: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory.. [1 Attachment]

       
      Dear All,

      I remembered reading about recommendation of Gems in one of the KP Readers.
      I am attaching the pages 279 and 280 from KP Reader 4 1996 Publication which is self explanatory.

      Regards
      Uday

      On 3/10/2012 4:16 PM, Dhirendra Nath Misra wrote:
       
      Dear friends,
                        In autobiography of yogi there is mention that a sidhdh Yogi cured a patient of tuberculosis with a ''thread''  when the patient could not manage for Blue sapphire and condition of patient had become worst.Even today spiritual master of Swami Vivekanand is remembered only because he had cured many thousand  patients with his blessings and paranormal powers attained by way of Sadhana.In ancient time Sidhdha Yogis often used to give a bead of Rudraksha to the people who wished their blessings to over come any hard problem.But Yogis used to energize the Rudraksha beads with sidhdha mantra and paranormal powers before it was given to any one.It is only known to Sidhdha Yogis that as to which extent blessings should be done or it should not be done.But certainly they can and they do it beyond doubt when they are pleased.Gemstone can work only when it is energized by any competent person else not.But no one should expect that he or she would become like a king only by wearing any gemstone,if he or she is a beggar.It can't replace a Sidhdha Yogi.Sage Parashar has also suggested to propitiate Nava grahas to ward off adverse effect of grahas,if any.But there should be a competent person who can do it.Even lord Krishna had to go to worship for one year under the supervision of sage UPMANYU to get his blessings and after doing it Lord Krishna was blessed with a Son.I mean to say remedies do work but on higher level.KP is not going to be denounced in this process.  
       
      Dhirendra Nath Misra.
       


      From: SivaYogi <sivayogi.astro@...>
      To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com
      Cc: babukrcbe@...; yogeshlajmi@...
      Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 9:36 AM
      Subject: RE: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory..

       
      Dear Babu
                      I happy that you are challenging KP? but I am afraid that you have forgotten the bottom line. May be you can post your opinion on the topic "GEM SCIENCE?" rather than demanding for an analysis on  unknown. If something  worked for X,  it is you who have to support your claim with analysis! and Not Yogesh Ji.
       
      If by any chance, you know how to sentence death to death, In the interest of mankind, please share with us, and show the path of liberation, so that we will also try !
       
      Please Take your time! Not in a hurry!!
      SivaYogi
       
      From: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com [mailto:k_p_system@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of babukrcbe
      Sent: Friday, March 09, 2012 6:51 AM
      To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog + Karma theory..
       
       


      Dear Lajmi Ji

      Since you have a quest to bust the MYTHs, here is a case you can analyze.

      A great guruji Swami Trilanga Ji wanted to know the ultimate truth and the remedy prescribed to him was sadhana and sanyasa. Swami Ji practiced sadhana well to an extent that he could sentence death to death.

      SwamiJi's year of birth is 1607 and lived more than 250 years. There are documentary evidences for that and please do research on your own to know it.

      Now question is Q1) How his remedy to know ultimate truth worked?

      If question 1) is difficult, you have a choice which is question 2.

      Q2) Please explain with any astrological theory (KP or Vedic or any) and suggest how SwamiJi lived that long. I'm none to give you pointers such as marakadapathi and badakadapathu for rescue since you know it all.

      I'm perplexed why so called marakadapathi and badakadapathu never worked for more than 250 years. You could shower us that knowledge with your deep and profound knowledge in KP.

      I see that you are already jumping on these questions to analyze further, but we still have a glitch. I don't know the date of birth and time of birth of Swamiji. Does it matter to KP stalwarts?? a big NO...

      Here you go... KP Stalwarts can make use of RP and find the month, day and time of birth... So I'm confident you can arrive at the time of birth and date of birth and explain the very basic KP principle in addressing either Q1 or Q2. Choice is yours....

      If you are far more interested in busting the myths, you can also analyze Swami Deva Raha Baba who also lived more than 300 years. You can research on your own to get details.

      Eagerly expecting your analysis.

      Regards
      Babu

      --- In k_p_system@yahoogroups.com, Punit Pandey <punitp@...> wrote:
      >
      > Dear Lajmi ji,
      >
      > Please see point-wise reply as follows -
      >
      > *// Could you please tell us what exactly did Parashara say ? Could you for
      > the benefit of all of us reproduce those sentences ?
      >
      > This morning I went through Hora Shastra by Parashar,Brihat Jatak by Varahamihira & also the famous Saravali by Kalyan Varma...NONE OF THESE CLASSICAL BOOKS RECOMMEND ANY KIND OF GEM-THERAPY AS ANY KIND OF REMEDY AT ALL... ! ! !//*
      > It shows your *ignorance*. You need to study rather than being *well in a
      > frog (koop-madook)*. Anyways, as you asked for references, please read
      > chapter 84 onward in Brihat Parahshar Hora Shastra. All those chapters are
      > dedicated to remedies.* For example, chapter 85 is named
      > "Grahashantyadhaya" which translates in English as "Planetary Remedies
      > Chapter". I wonder how you read a book that you miss 14-15 chapters in a
      > book ;-) ?*
      >
      > *// You have been insisting over and over again,to all and sundry that I
      > should give "proof"//*
      > *It is not me but Senthil who is insisting of proof. I am merely saying
      > that the people who challenge the established rules should present
      > proof.*Now Senthil has accepted his ignorance, you seems only person
      > who are still
      > in the league of opposing gemstones and remedies. That is the reason I said
      > that people like you should present cases and rules not me. I wonder why
      > you rush to respond without *ever* reading emails.
      >
      > *// GEM-THERAPY IS A GREAT HOAX. ! //
      > *Did Shri KSK said that? Any reference? We all know that Shri KSK never
      > said that instead he has clearly mentioned methodology for gemstone
      > selection. Even a fifth grader will understand that methodology is needed
      > only when those have some effect. *But one need to have fifth grader IQ to
      > understand that.*
      >
      > To conclude, *I again say that your intentions are correct. I know that
      > gemstone and remedies have become tools to cheat simple people.* But that
      > is true for astrology as well. There are more fraud astrologers than true /
      > learned astrologers. Argument that majority of astrologers are fraud and
      > hence astrology is incorrect itself is ignorance. Similarly, majority of
      > people doesn't know the working of gemstone/ remedies doesn't make the
      > whole science of gemstone/ remedies incorrect.
      >
      > Thanks & Regards,
      >
      > Punit Pandey
      >
      >
      > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 9:33 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@...> wrote:
      >
      > > Dear Punit,
      > > You have been insisting over and over again,to all and
      > > sundry that I should give "proof",of what ?
      > > I believe and I have experienced that Gems do
      > > not produce any 'remedial' action/effect worth it's name...! Moreover,our
      > > Revered Guruji,the late *Jyotish Marthand, K.S.Krishnamurthy ji* did not
      > > himself believe that they did,*and had taught us so...*
      > > It is you who vehemently claim and who stands by the *
      > > efficacy* of *"Gem Therapy"...* The *onus* lies with *you to give
      > > evidence that they do... *
      > > * *Naturally,in the absence of *any worthwhile evidence*that you can proffer,which can be termed as incontrovertible,
      > > *no "thinking" person will accept that,from you. Whereas,*even a
      > > qualified Gemologist dismisses such claim as "far-fetched"...but you your
      > > supporters continue to support you *without offering any evidence/proof
      > > of such a "silly" claim...taking shelter under what "Parashara said",and
      > > cleverly are trying to ask me,a non-believer to provide proof ...? ! ! [image:
      > > :) happy] [image: :D big grin]*
      > > * Could you please tell us what exactly did Parashara
      > > say ? Could you for the benefit of all of us reproduce those sentences ?*
      > > *Truly, such topsy-turvy things can happen only in
      > > India... !
      > > *
      > > * This morning I went through Hora Shastra by
      > > Parashar,Brihat Jatak by Varahamihira & also the famous Saravali by
      > > Kalyan Varma...NONE OF THESE CLASSICAL BOOKS RECOMMEND ANY KIND OF GEM-THERAPY
      > > AS ANY KIND OF REMEDY AT ALL... ! ! !*
      > > * *
      > > * GEM-THERAPY IS A GREAT HOAX. ! *
      > > *
      > > Q.E.D.(Quad Erat Demonstratum)*
      > > **
      > > * YOGESH LAJMI.*
      > > *From:* Punit Pandey <punitp@...>
      > > *To:* k_p_system@yahoogroups.com
      > > *Sent:* Tuesday, 6 March 2012 5:41 PM
      > >
      > > *Subject:* Re: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog +
      > > Karma theory..
      > >
      > > Dear Senthil,
      > >
      > > You accepted that you have not tested gemstones, so Lajmi ji is the only
      > > person (or may be one two more) who don't believe gemstone. You should ask
      > > Lajmi ji and others for the cases and rules on which they judged gemstones
      > > and didn't get good results. We can all sit at our convenience and approve/
      > > reject that.
      > >
      > > I wonder why you keep asking the rules to me when it is Lajmi ji (now not
      > > you) who challenges Gemstone? If he challenges established theory, when he
      > > is the odd man out, he should present the cases and rules.
      > > Thanks & Regards, Punit Pandey
      > > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 2:05 PM, Senthil <athi_ram@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Punit,
      > >
      > > We are awaiting for one example chart & GEM effects with rules for our
      > > discussion.
      > >
      > > GOOD LUCK!!
      > >
      > > D.Senthil
      > > --- On *Mon, 3/5/12, Senthil <athi_ram@...>* wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > From: Senthil <athi_ram@...>
      > > Subject: Re: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog +
      > > Karma theory.. To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Monday, March 5, 2012, 12:25 AM
      > >
      > > Dear Punit,
      > > *//If you do not know the rules then why are you saying that it doesn't
      > > work? Without knowing rules for gemstones how did you conclude that?//*
      > >
      > > Accepted. This may be due to my ignorance. Some of the members may be of
      > > having same opinion due to their ignorance. Now just give one example chart
      > > & GEM effects with rules for our discussion.
      > >
      > > GOOD LUCK!!
      > > D.Senthil****--- On *Sun, 3/4/12, Punit Pandey <punitp@...>* wrote:*
      > > *
      > >
      > >
      > > From: Punit Pandey <punitp@...>
      > > Subject: Re: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog +
      > > Karma theory..
      > > To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 9:50 PM
      > >
      > >
      > > Dear Senthil,
      > > If you do not know the rules then why are you saying that it doesn't work?
      > > Without knowing rules for gemstones how did you conclude that?
      > > Thanks & Regards, Punit Pandey
      > > On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Senthil <athi_ram@...<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=athi_ram@...>
      > > > wrote:
      > >
      > > **
      > >
      > > Dear Punit & Others,****
      > > ** **
      > > *//I have tons of cases of successful remedies and gemstones but it is
      > > not me but anybody opposing gemstone/ remedies should present case.// *
      > > ** **
      > > Without presenting the RULEs/Methods adopted for GEM, it cannot be
      > > discussed. So GEM followers may please present a case.****
      > > ****
      > >
      > > *//What are the basis for approving / rejecting gemstone? What is the
      > > method for measure success or failure of gemstone?//*
      > > ****
      > > GEM followers to provide RULEs/Methods adopted for GEM. Then it may be
      > > discussed further.****
      > > ** **
      > > GOOD LUCK!!****
      > > ****
      > > D.Senthil****
      > > --- On *Sun, 3/4/12, Punit Pandey <punitp@...<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=punitp@...>
      > > >* wrote:
      > >
      > > From: Punit Pandey <punitp@...<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=punitp@...>>
      > > Subject: Re: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog +
      > > Karma theory.. To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=k_p_system@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 9:59 AM
      > >
      > >
      > > Dear Senthil & Friends,
      > > I am again quoting from my earlier email -
      > > 1. Gemstone is already established field, whoever want to disprove/ reject
      > > Gemstone should present cases. This forum is very clear as far as
      > > challenging established theories are concerned.
      > > I have tons of cases of successful remedies and gemstones but it is not
      > > me but anybody opposing gemstone/ remedies should present case.
      > > // Even for disprove/reject some basis is required.//
      > > What are the basis for approving / rejecting gemstone? What is the method
      > > for measure success or failure of gemstone?
      > > Thanks & Regards, Punit Pandey
      > > On Sun, Mar 4, 2012 at 10:22 PM, Senthil <athi_ram@...<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=athi_ram@...>
      > > > wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Punit/adith/Kausik & others,******
      > > ****
      > > Even for disprove/reject some basis is required. Just like that it is not
      > > happening. At lest for everyone's understanding put one chart & by wearing
      > > GEM what events are changed/reduced in the native's life may please be
      > > explained.****
      > >
      > > ****
      > > GOOD LUCK!!****
      > > ****
      > > D.Senthil --- On *Sun, 3/4/12, Punit Pandey <punitp@...<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=punitp@...>
      > > >* wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > From: Punit Pandey <punitp@...<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=punitp@...>>
      > >
      > > Subject: Re: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog +
      > > Karma theory.. To: k_p_system@yahoogroups.com<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=k_p_system@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 5:25 AM
      > >
      > > Dear Senthil ji & Friends,
      > > 1. Gemstone is already established field, whoever want to disprove/ reject
      > > Gemstone should present cases. This forum is very clear as far as
      > > challenging established theories are concerned.
      > > 2. We know astrologers are very good in post-mortem and failure when it
      > > comes to predictions. Quiz is a good example of this. If anybody will
      > > present any case people will quickly reject with their post-mortem skills.
      > > Rejecting is very easy any theory especially if one is ignorant and doesn't
      > > understand it. This is what scientist community do to astrology - easily
      > > reject astrology.
      > > Thanks & Regards, Punit Pandey
      > > On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 6:38 PM, Senthil <athi_ram@...<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=athi_ram@...>
      > > > wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear All,
      > >
      > > Those who believe that the GEM changed the person's life events (or)
      > > reduced the Malefic effects of planets may please present the live charts
      > > DOBs,POBs & TOBs of those native with details to Mr.Lajami to verify the
      > > validity and to bring some conclusion for this thread.
      > >
      > >
      > > GOOD LUCK!!
      > >
      > > D.Senthil
      > > --- On *Fri, 3/2/12, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@...<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yogeshlajmi@...>
      > > >* wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > From: Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@...<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yogeshlajmi@...>>
      > >
      > > Subject: Re: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog +
      > > Karma theory..
      > > To: "k_p_system@yahoogroups.com<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=k_p_system@yahoogroups.com>"
      > > <k_p_system@yahoogroups.com<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=k_p_system@yahoogroups.com>
      > > >
      > > Date: Friday, March 2, 2012, 7:21 AM
      > >
      > >
      > > Dear Punit ji,
      > > That is precisely why, *I wonder why you haven't, as
      > > yet,* nor has anybody else, been able to send me as *single authenticated
      > > example,*with the so-called beneficiaries' DOBs,POBs & TOBs...and details
      > > of the date of the remedy's use,and the date on which effect was
      > > perceived...
      > > BTW, Parasar is not the only person...one should give
      > > credit to...
      > > No offence is meant please...
      > > With regards and best wishes,
      > > Yogesh Lajmi.
      > > GOOD LUCK !
      > >
      > >
      > > *From:* Punit Pandey <punitp@...<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=punitp@...>
      > > >
      > > *To:* k_p_system@yahoogroups.com<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=k_p_system@yahoogroups.com>
      > > *Sent:* Friday, 2 March 2012 11:47 AM
      > > *Subject:* Re: Fw: [k_p_system] Re: Gem's Science.......? See Astrolog +
      > > Karma theory..
      > >
      > > Dear Yogesh ji,
      > > Just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for
      > > anybody. It is like saying that if one person ever died, the whole medical
      > > science is fraud. Strange argument.
      > > Regarding Parashara, just for your kind information the astrology that
      > > you use is Parashara astrology only. Planet, House, Sign, Nakshatra,
      > > Aspects, Sub, Dasa everything is Parashara astrology. Remedies are part of
      > > the same Parashara astrology. You know planetary movement calculation and
      > > prediction used to be part of Jyotisha. You are like modern scientist who
      > > say that though planetary movement calculation by Indian astrologers are
      > > correct but predictive part is fraud. Praise and condemn selectively
      > > without verifying.
      > > I say what I experiment. I do not talk based on one case, neither I talk
      > > illogical and challenge here and there.
      > > Thanks & Regards, Punit Pandey
      > > On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 11:43 PM, Yogesh Lajmi <yogeshlajmi@...<http://us.mc1605.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=yogeshlajmi@...>
      > > > wrote:
      > >
      > > Dear Punit,
      > > This is the nth time I inform you that it is from my
      > > personal experience...of several years...I've told you that to test this
      > > theory I have worn a Navaratna ring,a saphphire-studded ring and a diamond
      > > studded ring for the last over six years or more...but there has been
      > > perceptible effect at all,of any kind... !
      > > If you not been observant enough it's very
      > > unfortunate...there asre many things said by Parasar which are no longer
      > > valid today...
      > > Perhaps you have not noticed such happenings because
      > > you seem to have taken it to be the epitome of truth...therefore if you
      > > insist on thinkin

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