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RE: SV: [junkrig] Solid Wooden Masts

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  • john j. henderson
    Paul again, thanks for your input and time. we appear to have similar boats as mine will be 34 LOA and 17,000 displacement, beam of 11 ft and 6,000 lbs of
    Message 1 of 18 , May 1, 2004
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      Paul

      again, thanks for your input and time. we appear to have similar boats as mine will be 34 LOA and 17,000 displacement, beam of 11 ft and 6,000 lbs of lead ballast. I will update you about cost and availability of these steel poles

      john

      "Paul J. Thompson" <la-chica@...> wrote:
      John,

      Then undoubtedly you can use those poles, my sail areas are 267sq.ft. fore
      sail and 402sq.ft. main sail which is not far from what you have. My disp.
      Is 1800lbs on a 10ft 3in beam 32ft. LOA so the boat has plenty of righting
      moment. I will do the sums for you and come back to you tomorrow.

      Paul

      -----Original Message-----
      From: john j. henderson [mailto:wildlifephotography@...]
      Sent: Saturday, 1 May 2004 2:05 p.m.
      To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: SV: [junkrig] Solid Wooden Masts

      the following specs are for my 34 foot vessel as designed by bruce roberts,
      he indicated specs are for wolid wooden mast.

      mainmast 31' 6" above deck, 4 inch at truck, 10.5 inch diameter at deck,
      about 6.5 ft bury into cabin.

      foremast 26' 10" above deck, 4 inch at truck, 9.5 inch diameter at deck,
      about 4 fout bury into chain locker

      mainmast 426 sq. ft sail area
      foresail 288 sq. ft. sail area

      foremast rake 3 3/8 inches in 48 inches forward.

      john

      "Paul J. Thompson" <la-chica@...> wrote:
      John,

      On the face of it, yes it would appear that you are right but for me to
      advise you correctly I need more info. What boat you building? How much sail
      are you hanging on the mast (s) how high do the masts need to be (length
      above deck)? What is the bury (length below deck)? The more info you give
      me, the better I can help you.

      Paul

      -----Original Message-----
      From: john j. henderson [mailto:wildlifephotography@...]
      Sent: Saturday, 1 May 2004 12:10 p.m.
      To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: SV: [junkrig] Solid Wooden Masts

      Paul

      a couple days ago I found these steel poles. by your specifications, it
      appears the 60 ft poles with a 0.120 in thickness (a hair thicker than 3 mm)
      could be cut to fit my vessel.

      http://www.daybrite.com/pdfspecs/PA-46066.pdf

      any thoughts

      john

      "Paul J. Thompson" <la-chica@...> wrote:
      Yes, to all questions. It also attaches the mast securely ton the boat. It
      is not my idea, I got it from PJR.

      Regards,

      Paul

      -----Original Message-----
      From: john j. henderson [mailto:wildlifephotography@...]
      Sent: Saturday, 1 May 2004 10:49 a.m.
      To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: SV: [junkrig] Solid Wooden Masts

      Paul

      another question, please. I noted the partners you have welded to your deck
      have a top flange with multiple holes for bolts. I also see the masts have
      a flange-does this flange "mate" to the partner deck flange and are these
      bolted together. did you do it this way to prevent water intrusion and
      provide a better seal?
      john

      "Paul J. Thompson" <la-chica@...> wrote:
      Hi,

      I have done the sums and solid wood mast are some what heavier than steel
      masts. Here is what I said in a previous post.

      I have just posted some photo's of the work done so far in my junkrig
      conversion of La Chica a steel Tahitiana (9.6M/31ft 9in). They may be of
      interest to the group especially those who have (or are building) steel
      boats. You can see the photos (includes photos of masts) here
      http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/lst?.dir=/La+Chica+-+Junk+Rig&
      <http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/lst?.dir=/La+Chica+-+Junk+Rig
      &>
      <
      http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/lst?.dir=/La+Chica+-+Junk+Rig
      &>
      <
      http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/lst?.dir=/La+Chica+-+Junk+Rig
      &>
      .src=gr&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/
      in the La Chica folder. The mast scantlings were worked out with the aid of
      PJR, which gave the wooden dimensions, then I worked out the size for the
      steel
      sections using the formula provided by Victor Winterhun. The steel
      scantlings are as follows: The main mast - Length = 13.750m, dia at top
      100mm, dia at partners 245mm, dia at base 100mm, wall thickness 3mm, weight
      170kg. The foremast - Length = 10.020m, dia at top 80mm, dia at partners
      215mm, dia at base 80mm, wall thickness 3mm, weight 110kg. Both are fully
      galvanized. I have been unable to find a source for steel tapered round
      poles here in New Zealand so the mast were made-up for me by a local company
      CSP. The masts are sixteen sided which is pretty close to round. The company
      that made them up CSP, normally makes street lighting poles which are
      usually eight sided. So far the masts look good and are impressively stiff.

      Hope this is of interest,

      Paul Thompson



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    • Paul J. Thompson
      Hi John, It is as I expected, you can safely use the same dia at partners that I have used. You will come out with a mast that is a little over strength (10
      Message 2 of 18 , May 1, 2004
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        Hi John,

        It is as I expected, you can safely use the same dia at partners that I have
        used. You will come out with a mast that is a little over strength (10 �
        15%) when compared to the PJR recommendation but that just gives you a
        margin for experimenting with the rig.

        All the reports that I have heard from members of the JRA who have them
        (steel masts) is overwhelmingly positive. As a matter of interest, Robin
        Blain, Hon. Sec. of the JRA and head of Sunbird Marine a company in the UK
        that has been in the forefront of Junk rig development for many years has
        said his choice of mast material even with a �cost is no object� approach is
        still a steel mast.

        Regards,

        Paul

        -----Original Message-----
        From: john j. henderson [mailto:wildlifephotography@...]
        Sent: Saturday, 1 May 2004 9:59 p.m.
        To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: SV: [junkrig] Solid Wooden Masts

        Paul

        again, thanks for your input and time. we appear to have similar boats as
        mine will be 34 LOA and 17,000 displacement, beam of 11 ft and 6,000 lbs of
        lead ballast. I will update you about cost and availability of these steel
        poles

        john

        "Paul J. Thompson" <la-chica@...> wrote:
        John,

        Then undoubtedly you can use those poles, my sail areas are 267sq.ft. fore
        sail and 402sq.ft. main sail which is not far from what you have. My disp.
        Is 1800lbs on a 10ft 3in beam 32ft. LOA so the boat has plenty of righting
        moment. I will do the sums for you and come back to you tomorrow.

        Paul

        -----Original Message-----
        From: john j. henderson [mailto:wildlifephotography@...]
        Sent: Saturday, 1 May 2004 2:05 p.m.
        To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: SV: [junkrig] Solid Wooden Masts

        the following specs are for my 34 foot vessel as designed by bruce roberts,
        he indicated specs are for wolid wooden mast.

        mainmast 31' 6" above deck, 4 inch at truck, 10.5 inch diameter at deck,
        about 6.5 ft bury into cabin.

        foremast 26' 10" above deck, 4 inch at truck, 9.5 inch diameter at deck,
        about 4 fout bury into chain locker

        mainmast 426 sq. ft sail area
        foresail 288 sq. ft. sail area

        foremast rake 3 3/8 inches in 48 inches forward.

        john

        "Paul J. Thompson" <la-chica@...> wrote:
        John,

        On the face of it, yes it would appear that you are right but for me to
        advise you correctly I need more info. What boat you building? How much sail
        are you hanging on the mast (s) how high do the masts need to be (length
        above deck)? What is the bury (length below deck)? The more info you give
        me, the better I can help you.

        Paul

        -----Original Message-----
        From: john j. henderson [mailto:wildlifephotography@...]
        Sent: Saturday, 1 May 2004 12:10 p.m.
        To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: SV: [junkrig] Solid Wooden Masts

        Paul

        a couple days ago I found these steel poles. by your specifications, it
        appears the 60 ft poles with a 0.120 in thickness (a hair thicker than 3 mm)
        could be cut to fit my vessel.

        http://www.daybrite.com/pdfspecs/PA-46066.pdf

        any thoughts

        john

        "Paul J. Thompson" <la-chica@...> wrote:
        Yes, to all questions. It also attaches the mast securely ton the boat. It
        is not my idea, I got it from PJR.

        Regards,

        Paul

        -----Original Message-----
        From: john j. henderson [mailto:wildlifephotography@...]
        Sent: Saturday, 1 May 2004 10:49 a.m.
        To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: RE: SV: [junkrig] Solid Wooden Masts

        Paul

        another question, please. I noted the partners you have welded to your deck
        have a top flange with multiple holes for bolts. I also see the masts have
        a flange-does this flange "mate" to the partner deck flange and are these
        bolted together. did you do it this way to prevent water intrusion and
        provide a better seal?
        john

        "Paul J. Thompson" <la-chica@...> wrote:
        Hi,

        I have done the sums and solid wood mast are some what heavier than steel
        masts. Here is what I said in a previous post.

        I have just posted some photo's of the work done so far in my junkrig
        conversion of La Chica a steel Tahitiana (9.6M/31ft 9in). They may be of
        interest to the group especially those who have (or are building) steel
        boats. You can see the photos (includes photos of masts) here
        http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/lst?.dir=/La+Chica+-+Junk+Rig&
        <http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/lst?.dir=/La+Chica+-+Junk+Rig
        &>
        <
        http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/lst?.dir=/La+Chica+-+Junk+Rig
        &>
        <
        http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/lst?.dir=/La+Chica+-+Junk+Rig
        &>
        <
        http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/lst?.dir=/La+Chica+-+Junk+Rig
        &>
        .src=gr&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/
        in the La Chica folder. The mast scantlings were worked out with the aid of
        PJR, which gave the wooden dimensions, then I worked out the size for the
        steel
        sections using the formula provided by Victor Winterhun. The steel
        scantlings are as follows: The main mast - Length = 13.750m, dia at top
        100mm, dia at partners 245mm, dia at base 100mm, wall thickness 3mm, weight
        170kg. The foremast - Length = 10.020m, dia at top 80mm, dia at partners
        215mm, dia at base 80mm, wall thickness 3mm, weight 110kg. Both are fully
        galvanized. I have been unable to find a source for steel tapered round
        poles here in New Zealand so the mast were made-up for me by a local company
        CSP. The masts are sixteen sided which is pretty close to round. The company
        that made them up CSP, normally makes street lighting poles which are
        usually eight sided. So far the masts look good and are impressively stiff.

        Hope this is of interest,

        Paul Thompson



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      • john j. henderson
        Paul just got the prices for the steel poles, 60 ft long, 12 inch dia. base, 3.75 inch dia. top and 0.118 inch thickness is $2850 each delivered, much cheaper
        Message 3 of 18 , May 3, 2004
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          Paul

          just got the prices for the steel poles, 60 ft long, 12 inch dia. base, 3.75 inch dia. top and 0.118 inch thickness is $2850 each delivered, much cheaper than wood. I would need to cut these off and construct a base, but the price is attractive.

          john

          "Paul J. Thompson" <la-chica@...> wrote:
          Hi John,

          It is as I expected, you can safely use the same dia at partners that I have
          used. You will come out with a mast that is a little over strength (10 �
          15%) when compared to the PJR recommendation but that just gives you a
          margin for experimenting with the rig.

          All the reports that I have heard from members of the JRA who have them
          (steel masts) is overwhelmingly positive. As a matter of interest, Robin
          Blain, Hon. Sec. of the JRA and head of Sunbird Marine a company in the UK
          that has been in the forefront of Junk rig development for many years has
          said his choice of mast material even with a �cost is no object� approach is
          still a steel mast.

          Regards,

          Paul

          -----Original Message-----
          From: john j. henderson [mailto:wildlifephotography@...]
          Sent: Saturday, 1 May 2004 9:59 p.m.
          To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: SV: [junkrig] Solid Wooden Masts

          Paul

          again, thanks for your input and time. we appear to have similar boats as
          mine will be 34 LOA and 17,000 displacement, beam of 11 ft and 6,000 lbs of
          lead ballast. I will update you about cost and availability of these steel
          poles

          john

          "Paul J. Thompson" wrote:
          John,

          Then undoubtedly you can use those poles, my sail areas are 267sq.ft. fore
          sail and 402sq.ft. main sail which is not far from what you have. My disp.
          Is 1800lbs on a 10ft 3in beam 32ft. LOA so the boat has plenty of righting
          moment. I will do the sums for you and come back to you tomorrow.

          Paul

          -----Original Message-----
          From: john j. henderson [mailto:wildlifephotography@...]
          Sent: Saturday, 1 May 2004 2:05 p.m.
          To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: SV: [junkrig] Solid Wooden Masts

          the following specs are for my 34 foot vessel as designed by bruce roberts,
          he indicated specs are for wolid wooden mast.

          mainmast 31' 6" above deck, 4 inch at truck, 10.5 inch diameter at deck,
          about 6.5 ft bury into cabin.

          foremast 26' 10" above deck, 4 inch at truck, 9.5 inch diameter at deck,
          about 4 fout bury into chain locker

          mainmast 426 sq. ft sail area
          foresail 288 sq. ft. sail area

          foremast rake 3 3/8 inches in 48 inches forward.

          john

          "Paul J. Thompson" wrote:
          John,

          On the face of it, yes it would appear that you are right but for me to
          advise you correctly I need more info. What boat you building? How much sail
          are you hanging on the mast (s) how high do the masts need to be (length
          above deck)? What is the bury (length below deck)? The more info you give
          me, the better I can help you.

          Paul

          -----Original Message-----
          From: john j. henderson [mailto:wildlifephotography@...]
          Sent: Saturday, 1 May 2004 12:10 p.m.
          To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: SV: [junkrig] Solid Wooden Masts

          Paul

          a couple days ago I found these steel poles. by your specifications, it
          appears the 60 ft poles with a 0.120 in thickness (a hair thicker than 3 mm)
          could be cut to fit my vessel.

          http://www.daybrite.com/pdfspecs/PA-46066.pdf

          any thoughts

          john

          "Paul J. Thompson" wrote:
          Yes, to all questions. It also attaches the mast securely ton the boat. It
          is not my idea, I got it from PJR.

          Regards,

          Paul

          -----Original Message-----
          From: john j. henderson [mailto:wildlifephotography@...]
          Sent: Saturday, 1 May 2004 10:49 a.m.
          To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: SV: [junkrig] Solid Wooden Masts

          Paul

          another question, please. I noted the partners you have welded to your deck
          have a top flange with multiple holes for bolts. I also see the masts have
          a flange-does this flange "mate" to the partner deck flange and are these
          bolted together. did you do it this way to prevent water intrusion and
          provide a better seal?
          john

          "Paul J. Thompson" wrote:
          Hi,

          I have done the sums and solid wood mast are some what heavier than steel
          masts. Here is what I said in a previous post.

          I have just posted some photo's of the work done so far in my junkrig
          conversion of La Chica a steel Tahitiana (9.6M/31ft 9in). They may be of
          interest to the group especially those who have (or are building) steel
          boats. You can see the photos (includes photos of masts) here
          http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/lst?.dir=/La+Chica+-+Junk+Rig&
          &>
          <
          http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/lst?.dir=/La+Chica+-+Junk+Rig
          &>
          <
          http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/lst?.dir=/La+Chica+-+Junk+Rig
          &>
          <
          http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/lst?.dir=/La+Chica+-+Junk+Rig
          &>
          .src=gr&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/
          in the La Chica folder. The mast scantlings were worked out with the aid of
          PJR, which gave the wooden dimensions, then I worked out the size for the
          steel
          sections using the formula provided by Victor Winterhun. The steel
          scantlings are as follows: The main mast - Length = 13.750m, dia at top
          100mm, dia at partners 245mm, dia at base 100mm, wall thickness 3mm, weight
          170kg. The foremast - Length = 10.020m, dia at top 80mm, dia at partners
          215mm, dia at base 80mm, wall thickness 3mm, weight 110kg. Both are fully
          galvanized. I have been unable to find a source for steel tapered round
          poles here in New Zealand so the mast were made-up for me by a local company
          CSP. The masts are sixteen sided which is pretty close to round. The company
          that made them up CSP, normally makes street lighting poles which are
          usually eight sided. So far the masts look good and are impressively stiff.

          Hope this is of interest,

          Paul Thompson



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