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Re: [junkrig] Tapered mast

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  • rob tison
    Colvin junks are nontapered on the stayed rigs... ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 24, 2013
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      Colvin junks are nontapered on the stayed rigs...



      On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 12:58 PM, panoulis <paaanoulis@...> wrote:

      > Hello everybody,
      >
      > Is there a reason for not using a non tapered mast?
      > I consider this in way to keep things simple.
      > I'm talking about an aluminum-alloy tube.
      > The mast hight is about 30 feet from keel to top.
      > And what about using a aluminum mast from a much bigger conventional sail
      > boat?
      >
      > Thanks for reading,
      > and greetings from Greece,
      > Panagiotis
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > The junkrig "Files" section is at:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/files/
      > The junkrig2 overflow "Files" section is at:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/files/
      > The "Photos" section is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/photos
      > The junkrig2 overflow "Photos" section is at:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/photos/
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Andres Espino
      The owner of Marzipan in the photo albums.. made his mast of  2 pieces of aluminum pipe an upper smaller  inserted into a larger lower section.  he sent me
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 24, 2013
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        The owner of Marzipan in the photo albums.. made his mast of  2 pieces of aluminum pipe an upper smaller  inserted into a larger lower section.  he sent me an off group email about how he did it.

        Andrew




        ________________________________
        From: panoulis <paaanoulis@...>
        To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, June 24, 2013 12:58 PM
        Subject: [junkrig] Tapered mast



         
        Hello everybody,

        Is there a reason for not using a non tapered mast?
        I consider this in way to keep things simple.
        I'm talking about an aluminum-alloy tube.
        The mast hight is about 30 feet from keel to top.
        And what about using a aluminum mast from a much bigger conventional sail boat?

        Thanks for reading,
        and greetings from Greece,
        Panagiotis





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • PaulS
        Sleeved round pipe sections can work well. My boat, a Snowbird 30 design by Ganley, has three sections sleeved together. It has been standing for 30 years,
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 26, 2013
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          Sleeved round pipe sections can work well. My boat, a Snowbird 30 design by Ganley, has three sections sleeved together. It has been standing for 30 years, and I have sailed it down the East Coast from Nova Scotia to Florida and the Bahamas. Previous owners sailed in Nova Scotia and New England, plus at least one trip down into the Caribbean. I'm planning a trip from Florida to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands starting in November of this year. The mast curves aft most impressively when the sail is up all the way. I tend to not look at it much! But as I say, 30 years of use and it works just fine.
        • rob tison
          Is the mast stayed? is it welded or fastened with screws? ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 26, 2013
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            Is the mast stayed? is it welded or fastened with screws?
            On Jun 26, 2013 3:46 PM, "PaulS" <psommers1249@...> wrote:

            > Sleeved round pipe sections can work well. My boat, a Snowbird 30 design
            > by Ganley, has three sections sleeved together. It has been standing for
            > 30 years, and I have sailed it down the East Coast from Nova Scotia to
            > Florida and the Bahamas. Previous owners sailed in Nova Scotia and New
            > England, plus at least one trip down into the Caribbean. I'm planning a
            > trip from Florida to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands starting in
            > November of this year. The mast curves aft most impressively when the sail
            > is up all the way. I tend to not look at it much! But as I say, 30 years
            > of use and it works just fine.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > The junkrig "Files" section is at:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/files/
            > The junkrig2 overflow "Files" section is at:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/files/
            > The "Photos" section is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/photos
            > The junkrig2 overflow "Photos" section is at:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/photos/
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Andres Espino
            Sleeved is the term i guess and is what I was trying to describe that the builder did to Marzipan in the albums. Andrew ________________________________ From:
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 27, 2013
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              Sleeved is the term i guess and is what I was trying to describe that the builder did to Marzipan in the albums.

              Andrew




              ________________________________
              From: PaulS <psommers1249@...>
              To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 3:46 PM
              Subject: [junkrig] Re: Tapered mast



               
              Sleeved round pipe sections can work well. My boat, a Snowbird 30 design by Ganley, has three sections sleeved together. It has been standing for 30 years, and I have sailed it down the East Coast from Nova Scotia to Florida and the Bahamas. Previous owners sailed in Nova Scotia and New England, plus at least one trip down into the Caribbean. I'm planning a trip from Florida to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands starting in November of this year. The mast curves aft most impressively when the sail is up all the way. I tend to not look at it much! But as I say, 30 years of use and it works just fine.




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • PaulS
              Unstayed and welded.
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 27, 2013
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                Unstayed and welded.

                --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, rob tison <rwtison@...> wrote:
                >
                > Is the mast stayed? is it welded or fastened with screws?
                > On Jun 26, 2013 3:46 PM, "PaulS" <psommers1249@...> wrote:
                >
                > > Sleeved round pipe sections can work well. My boat, a Snowbird 30 design
                > > by Ganley, has three sections sleeved together. It has been standing for
                > > 30 years, and I have sailed it down the East Coast from Nova Scotia to
                > > Florida and the Bahamas. Previous owners sailed in Nova Scotia and New
                > > England, plus at least one trip down into the Caribbean. I'm planning a
                > > trip from Florida to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands starting in
                > > November of this year. The mast curves aft most impressively when the sail
                > > is up all the way. I tend to not look at it much! But as I say, 30 years
                > > of use and it works just fine.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > The junkrig "Files" section is at:
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/files/
                > > The junkrig2 overflow "Files" section is at:
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/files/
                > > The "Photos" section is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/photos
                > > The junkrig2 overflow "Photos" section is at:
                > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/photos/
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Douglas Pollard
                Yes the sectioned and welded masts are really good. I have made some masts for customers in the machine shop business. We made some from light poles that were
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 27, 2013
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                  Yes the sectioned and welded masts are really good. I have made some
                  masts for customers in the machine shop business. We made some from
                  light poles that were tapered the problem was the poles started out
                  about 4" diameter and were heated and rolled on a mandrel . They were
                  1/2 thick at the top and rolled out to about 7 inches in diameter at the
                  bottom. This stretches the 1/2 wall thickness out to about 3/16 at the
                  bottom. The problem is the 4 inch diameter is just as heavey as the 7
                  inch diameter. They cast most of them now I am told. That makes them
                  lighter at the top. Cast aluminum is not as strong as rolled or
                  extruded. Somebody recently said they now can extrude them tapered. I
                  don't how the heck they do that? Tom Colvan put steel masts in his
                  bigger junk rigs because steel is stronger. The mast could be thinner
                  and he claimed the strength to weight was about the same and a huge
                  amount cheaper. He used a high tinsel strength steel so maybe he was
                  right. Still the mast had to be painted every few years. He stayed his
                  masts because back in the sixties boats designers were going to bigger
                  and bigger Genoas. Tom complained that he could not, at that time sell
                  junk rigs without jibs and they require tight head stays. He complained
                  the the jibs did nothing for a junk rig but he felt he was stuck with
                  them. Doug


                  On 06/27/2013 01:47 PM, PaulS wrote:
                  >
                  > Unstayed and welded.
                  >
                  > --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com <mailto:junkrig%40yahoogroups.com>, rob
                  > tison <rwtison@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Is the mast stayed? is it welded or fastened with screws?
                  > > On Jun 26, 2013 3:46 PM, "PaulS" <psommers1249@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > Sleeved round pipe sections can work well. My boat, a Snowbird 30
                  > design
                  > > > by Ganley, has three sections sleeved together. It has been
                  > standing for
                  > > > 30 years, and I have sailed it down the East Coast from Nova Scotia to
                  > > > Florida and the Bahamas. Previous owners sailed in Nova Scotia and New
                  > > > England, plus at least one trip down into the Caribbean. I'm
                  > planning a
                  > > > trip from Florida to Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands starting in
                  > > > November of this year. The mast curves aft most impressively when
                  > the sail
                  > > > is up all the way. I tend to not look at it much! But as I say, 30
                  > years
                  > > > of use and it works just fine.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > ------------------------------------
                  > > >
                  > > > The junkrig "Files" section is at:
                  > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/files/
                  > > > The junkrig2 overflow "Files" section is at:
                  > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/files/
                  > > > The "Photos" section is at:
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/photos
                  > > > The junkrig2 overflow "Photos" section is at:
                  > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/photos/
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • PaulS
                  I had a Colvin Gazelle for 11 years on the west coast of the US - I don t know how the steel masts were made. With two part expoxy based paint it was not hard
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 28, 2013
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                    I had a Colvin Gazelle for 11 years on the west coast of the US - I don't know how the steel masts were made. With two part expoxy based paint it was not hard to keep the masts painted during years of Salish Sea/Inside Passage sailing, but 6 weeks of open ocean sailing (3 weeks to Hawaii from Cabo San Lucas and 3 weeks back to the PNW) resulted in bare steel patches at every spot where a batten rested against the mast (the entire 3 week leg from Hawaii back to the PNW basically - the Mexico to Hawaii leg was downwind with the sail behind the mast and the parrel lines holding the sail close to the mast did not chafe the paint - the lines chafed instead and I had to replace several of them during the voyage). The jib is essential on this rig - the Gazelle sails much closer to the wind with the jib pulling. Downwind it is pretty much useless as it is blanketed by the main and fore sails. Colvin's recommendation was always to avoid straight downwind sailing - head up enough to get everything pulling and you sail much faster, albeit across more miles. On the Hawaii/PNW trip we often furled the jib, but did not go below 150 or 155 degrees relative so as to keep main and foresail pulling and the boat moving close to hull speed. Main was often reefed one panel. The boat feels like it is on railroad tracks in these conditions - extremely stable, just keeps heading the same direction and moving really fast in 15-20 knot winds on the quarter - 160 to 185 mile days.
                  • panoulis
                    Hi, thanks everybody for the replies. when you say sleeved do you mean one tube put into another? and does the smaller tube go all the way down or just a
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 12, 2013
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                      Hi,

                      thanks everybody for the replies.
                      when you say "sleeved" do you mean one tube put into another?
                      and does the smaller tube go all the way down or just a section?
                      and the parrels, aren't they jamming at the join?

                      regards, paaanoulis
                    • Paul McKay
                      Hi, my 9.9 metre mast was made professionally from 3 tubes by Hawk Marine (NeedleSpar). The lowest 4.5 dia, the second 4 dia and the top section 3.5 dia.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 12, 2013
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                        Hi, my 9.9 metre mast was made professionally from 3 tubes by Hawk Marine (NeedleSpar). The lowest 4.5" dia, the second 4" dia and the top section 3.5" dia. Each smaller tube goes into the larger by about 18" then is epoxied and riveted. The larger tube is ground down for about 18" in a taper that leaves a step of between 1/8th and 1/4" between it and the next smaller. My mast also has a section of 4" tube about 6' long epoxied into the 4.5" tube at 3 feet either side of the mast partners. This gives a strong and flexible mast. Hope this helps.

                        Paul


                        On 12 Jul 2013, at 18:19, panoulis wrote:

                        > Hi,
                        >
                        > thanks everybody for the replies.
                        > when you say "sleeved" do you mean one tube put into another?
                        > and does the smaller tube go all the way down or just a section?
                        > and the parrels, aren't they jamming at the join?
                        >
                        > regards, paaanoulis
                        >
                        >

                        Paul McKay
                        paulbute@...




                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Arne Kverneland, Norway
                        Stavanger, Saturday In some cases it pays to make the mast as a hybrid of aluminium and wood, that is, with the lowest part being an off-the-shelf aluminium
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 13, 2013
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                          Stavanger, Saturday

                          In some cases it pays to make the mast as a hybrid of aluminium and wood, that is, with the lowest part being an off-the-shelf aluminium tube and with an upper section of wood being stuck and glued into the tube.

                          Annie Hill, well known to most junkies, has successfully junkrigged her Raven 26 with a mast close to 30' over all. The lower part is a 20' (I believe) by 6" (x ¼") tube of tempered aluminium. The upper part is wood.

                          I myself am in the process of re-rigging a 21' centre-boarder. For this rig I have made a 7.6m mast where the lower part is a 6m long, 100 x 4mm tube of 6082-T6 alloy. The 1.6m top section is made from 2 pieces of 2 x 4" spruce (actually 2m long but stuck 40cm into the tube).
                          Here is how it looks.

                          https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49284570/Midlertidige%20ting/20130614%207.6m%20mast%2C%20aluminium%20plus%20spruce.JPG

                          The fine thing with the method is that one may use a standard tempered alloy tube and not have to pay for a lot of workshop hours. The wooden piece (tapered to 60mm in my case) is easy enough to make for most handymen, and the timber is within off-the shelf size). Cheap and quick to make.

                          Cheers, Arne




                          --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "panoulis" <paaanoulis@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi,
                          >
                          > thanks everybody for the replies.
                          > when you say "sleeved" do you mean one tube put into another?
                          > and does the smaller tube go all the way down or just a section?
                          > and the parrels, aren't they jamming at the join?
                          >
                          > regards, paaanoulis
                          >
                        • lself100
                          See: http://www.mcmaster.com/#cadinlnord/44705k553/=nng3gs An aluminum butt weld pipe flange that might work as a deck mast collar....rather than a custom
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 16, 2013
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                            See:
                            http://www.mcmaster.com/#cadinlnord/44705k553/=nng3gs
                            An aluminum butt weld pipe flange that might work as a deck mast collar....rather than a custom weld-up or casting.

                            --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Arne Kverneland, Norway" <a-kve2@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Stavanger, Saturday
                            >
                            > In some cases it pays to make the mast as a hybrid of aluminium and wood, that is, with the lowest part being an off-the-shelf aluminium tube and with an upper section of wood being stuck and glued into the tube.
                          • panoulis
                            Hi Paul, yes, your answer helps a lot. Is the mast you are talking about, an aluminum mast? And do you have any idea about it s wall thickness? regards,
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jul 18, 2013
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                              Hi Paul,

                              yes, your answer helps a lot.
                              Is the mast you are talking about,
                              an aluminum mast? And do you have
                              any idea about it's wall thickness?

                              regards, Panagiotis
                            • zarzeckistephan
                              Hello Arne, would you have an idea of the section of aluminum mast I shout use to convert my Albin Vega ? I was thinking to get a flag mast (aluminium or
                              Message 14 of 17 , Dec 1, 2013
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                                Hello Arne,

                                would you have an idea of the section of aluminum mast I shout use  to convert my Albin Vega ?

                                I was thinking to get a flag mast (aluminium or polystester)  


                                My idea is to cut up to the right lengt


                                http://www.hollandvlaggen.nl/vlaggenmasten/prijzen-polyester-vlaggenmasten/polyester-vlaggenmasten-kantelanker-10-00m-120-65mm/


                                or 


                                http://www.hollandvlaggen.nl/vlaggenmasten/prijzen-aluminium-vlaggenmasten/aluminium-vlaggenmasten-conisch-standaard-12-00m-135-60mm/


                                tthanks for you comment

                                KR


                                Stephan



                                ---In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, <a-kve2@...> wrote:

                                Stavanger, Saturday

                                In some cases it pays to make the mast as a hybrid of aluminium and wood, that is, with the lowest part being an off-the-shelf aluminium tube and with an upper section of wood being stuck and glued into the tube.

                                Annie Hill, well known to most junkies, has successfully junkrigged her Raven 26 with a mast close to 30' over all. The lower part is a 20' (I believe) by 6" (x ¼") tube of tempered aluminium. The upper part is wood.

                                I myself am in the process of re-rigging a 21' centre-boarder. For this rig I have made a 7.6m mast where the lower part is a 6m long, 100 x 4mm tube of 6082-T6 alloy. The 1.6m top section is made from 2 pieces of 2 x 4" spruce (actually 2m long but stuck 40cm into the tube).
                                Here is how it looks.

                                https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49284570/Midlertidige%20ting/20130614%207.6m%20mast%2C%20aluminium%20plus%20spruce.JPG

                                The fine thing with the method is that one may use a standard tempered alloy tube and not have to pay for a lot of workshop hours. The wooden piece (tapered to 60mm in my case) is easy enough to make for most handymen, and the timber is within off-the shelf size). Cheap and quick to make.

                                Cheers, Arne




                                --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "panoulis" <paaanoulis@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Hi,
                                >
                                > thanks everybody for the replies.
                                > when you say "sleeved" do you mean one tube put into another?
                                > and does the smaller tube go all the way down or just a section?
                                > and the parrels, aren't they jamming at the join?
                                >
                                > regards, paaanoulis
                                >
                              • arne_kverneland_norway
                                Stavanger, Sunday Stephan I know that Annie Hill has used a 152mm x 5mm aluminium section (6261-T6 alloy) on her «Fantail», a Raven 26. I don’t have the
                                Message 15 of 17 , Dec 1, 2013
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                                  Stavanger, Sunday

                                   

                                  Stephan

                                  I know that Annie Hill has used a 152mm x 5mm aluminium section (6261-T6 alloy) on her «Fantail», a Raven 26. I don’t have the numbers in front of me, but I mean to remember that the yield strength of that section was roughly twice the righting moment of the boat. Since a Raven 26 is of about the same size and displacement as a Vega, I would  -  safe and sound at my keyboard  -  suggest that you go for a similar section.

                                   

                                  Annie completed the mast as a hybrid, consisting of that 6m aluminium tube, with a top section of wood added. This summer I did the same to a smaller boat, and that hybrid mast came out very good, and at a reasonable price as well.

                                   

                                  Cheers, Arne



                                  ---In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, <stephanzarzecki@...> wrote:

                                  Hello Arne,

                                  would you have an idea of the section of aluminum mast I shout use  to convert my Albin Vega ?

                                  I was thinking to get a flag mast (aluminium or polystester)  


                                  My idea is to cut up to the right lengt


                                  http://www.hollandvlaggen.nl/vlaggenmasten/prijzen-polyester-vlaggenmasten/polyester-vlaggenmasten-kantelanker-10-00m-120-65mm/


                                  or 


                                  http://www.hollandvlaggen.nl/vlaggenmasten/prijzen-aluminium-vlaggenmasten/aluminium-vlaggenmasten-conisch-standaard-12-00m-135-60mm/


                                  tthanks for you comment

                                  KR


                                  Stephan



                                  ---In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, <a-kve2@...> wrote:

                                  Stavanger, Saturday

                                  In some cases it pays to make the mast as a hybrid of aluminium and wood, that is, with the lowest part being an off-the-shelf aluminium tube and with an upper section of wood being stuck and glued into the tube.

                                  Annie Hill, well known to most junkies, has successfully junkrigged her Raven 26 with a mast close to 30' over all. The lower part is a 20' (I believe) by 6" (x ¼") tube of tempered aluminium. The upper part is wood.

                                  I myself am in the process of re-rigging a 21' centre-boarder. For this rig I have made a 7.6m mast where the lower part is a 6m long, 100 x 4mm tube of 6082-T6 alloy. The 1.6m top section is made from 2 pieces of 2 x 4" spruce (actually 2m long but stuck 40cm into the tube).
                                  Here is how it looks.

                                  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49284570/Midlertidige%20ting/20130614%207.6m%20mast%2C%20aluminium%20plus%20spruce.JPG

                                  The fine thing with the method is that one may use a standard tempered alloy tube and not have to pay for a lot of workshop hours. The wooden piece (tapered to 60mm in my case) is easy enough to make for most handymen, and the timber is within off-the shelf size). Cheap and quick to make.

                                  Cheers, Arne




                                  --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "panoulis" <paaanoulis@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi,
                                  >
                                  > thanks everybody for the replies.
                                  > when you say "sleeved" do you mean one tube put into another?
                                  > and does the smaller tube go all the way down or just a section?
                                  > and the parrels, aren't they jamming at the join?
                                  >
                                  > regards, paaanoulis
                                  >
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