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Making a Weed Mat Junk Sail

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  • Mudskipper
    Hello I have bitten the bullet and spent a couple of hundred dollars on weed matting and timber battens to make a junk sail for a 10 meter boat. I came up with
    Message 1 of 26 , Apr 2, 2012
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      Hello

      I have bitten the bullet and spent a couple of hundred dollars on weed matting and timber battens to make a junk sail for a 10 meter boat.

      I came up with some different ideas/ meathods and would be interested in anyone's comments.

      Cheers

      Roger

      http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=2634179827550876521#editor/target=post;postID=5342349470209650294

      or

      https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/111704006250091309128/#111704006250091309128/about
    • Mudskipper
      please see photos and captions. https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/111704006250091309128/#photos/111704006250091309128/albums/5722133746255170353
      Message 2 of 26 , Apr 2, 2012
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        please see photos and captions.

        https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/111704006250091309128/#photos/111704006250091309128/albums/5722133746255170353

        --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Mudskipper" <koolkombi@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello
        >
        > I have bitten the bullet and spent a couple of hundred dollars on weed matting and timber battens to make a junk sail for a 10 meter boat.
        >
        > I came up with some different ideas/ meathods and would be interested in anyone's comments.
        >
        > Cheers
        >
        > Roger
        >
        > http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=2634179827550876521#editor/target=post;postID=5342349470209650294
        >
        > or
        >
        > https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/111704006250091309128/#111704006250091309128/about
        >
      • Mark Hamill
        Just a thought---Here in BC most people smoke the weed rather than make sails out of it :) . [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 26 , Apr 2, 2012
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          Just a thought---Here in BC most people smoke the weed rather than make sails out of it :)
          .



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mudskipper
          Wot ever floats ur boat man
          Message 4 of 26 , Apr 2, 2012
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            Wot ever floats ur boat man
            --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamill" <mhamill1@...> wrote:
            >
            > Just a thought---Here in BC most people smoke the weed rather than make sails out of it :)
            > .
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • will mcdonald
            Makes life better ntm sailing ... Date: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:25:20 pm To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com From: Mudskipper Subject: [junkrig]
            Message 5 of 26 , Apr 2, 2012
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              Makes life better ntm sailing
              -----Original Message-----
              Date: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:25:20 pm
              To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
              From: Mudskipper <koolkombi@...>
              Subject: [junkrig] Re: Making a Weed Mat Junk Sail

              Wot ever floats ur boat man
              --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamill" <mhamill1@...> wrote:
              >
              > Just a thought---Here in BC most people smoke the weed rather than make sails out of it :)
              > .
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Mudskipper
              u guys more into skunk than junk! :))
              Message 6 of 26 , Apr 2, 2012
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                u guys more into skunk than junk! :))

                --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "will mcdonald " <willwilly_52@...> wrote:
                >
                > Makes life better ntm sailing
                > -----Original Message-----
                > Date: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:25:20 pm
                > To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
                > From: Mudskipper <koolkombi@...>
                > Subject: [junkrig] Re: Making a Weed Mat Junk Sail
                >
                > Wot ever floats ur boat man
                > --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamill" <mhamill1@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Just a thought---Here in BC most people smoke the weed rather than make sails out of it :)
                > > .
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
              • will mcdonald
                Building my boat to sail to Amsterdam ,home of weed sailing. ... Date: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:42:18 pm To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com From: Mudskipper
                Message 7 of 26 , Apr 2, 2012
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                  Building my boat to sail to Amsterdam ,home of weed sailing.
                  -----Original Message-----
                  Date: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:42:18 pm
                  To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
                  From: Mudskipper <koolkombi@...>
                  Subject: [junkrig] Re: Making a Weed Mat Junk Sail

                  u guys more into skunk than junk! :))

                  --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "will mcdonald " <willwilly_52@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Makes life better ntm sailing
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > Date: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:25:20 pm
                  > To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
                  > From: Mudskipper <koolkombi@...>
                  > Subject: [junkrig] Re: Making a Weed Mat Junk Sail
                  >
                  > Wot ever floats ur boat man
                  > --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamill" <mhamill1@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Just a thought---Here in BC most people smoke the weed rather than make sails out of it :)
                  > > .
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                • John Boy
                  Awesome New Year s party in A-dam if you ever get there.  Woke up in the gutter.  Good times... good times... John Boy   You can trust me, I have a degree
                  Message 8 of 26 , Apr 2, 2012
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                    Awesome New Year's party in A-dam if you ever get there.  Woke up in the gutter.  Good times... good times...
                    John Boy
                     



                    You can trust me, I have a degree in science...




                    ________________________________
                    From: will mcdonald <willwilly_52@...>
                    To: "koolkombi@... " <koolkombi@...>; " junkrig@yahoogroups.com " <junkrig@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 7:22 PM
                    Subject: RE: [junkrig] Re: Making a Weed Mat Junk Sail

                    Building my boat to sail to Amsterdam ,home of weed sailing.
                    -----Original Message-----
                    Date: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:42:18 pm
                    To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
                    From: Mudskipper <koolkombi@...>
                    Subject: [junkrig] Re: Making a  Weed Mat Junk Sail

                    u guys more into skunk than junk! :))

                    --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "will mcdonald " <willwilly_52@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Makes life better ntm sailing
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > Date: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:25:20 pm
                    > To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
                    > From: Mudskipper <koolkombi@...>
                    > Subject: [junkrig] Re: Making a  Weed Mat Junk Sail
                    >
                    > Wot ever floats ur boat man
                    > --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamill" <mhamill1@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Just a thought---Here in BC most people smoke the weed rather than make sails out of it :)
                    > >  .
                    > >   
                    > > 
                    > >
                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > >
                    >





                    ------------------------------------

                    The junkrig "Files" section is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/files/
                    The junkrig2 overflow "Files" section is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/files/
                    The "Photos" section is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/photos
                    The junkrig2 overflow "Photos" section is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/photos/
                    Yahoo! Groups Links



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • will mcdonald
                    Have been several times have a dutch friend who owns and operates a gaff rigged dutch barge for tourists on the Islomeer (sp)they all roll their own never
                    Message 9 of 26 , Apr 2, 2012
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                      Have been several times have a dutch friend who owns and operates a gaff rigged dutch barge for tourists on the Islomeer (sp)they all "roll their own" never went on new year`s.ok back to junk rigs. We are getting a little off subject.cheers.
                      -----Original Message-----
                      Date: Monday, April 02, 2012 8:24:46 pm
                      To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
                      From: John Boy <t1ro2003@...>
                      Subject: Re: [junkrig] Re: Making a Weed Mat Junk Sail

                      Awesome New Year's party in A-dam if you ever get there.  Woke up in the gutter.  Good times... good times...
                      John Boy
                       



                      You can trust me, I have a degree in science...




                      ________________________________
                      From: will mcdonald <willwilly_52@...>
                      To: "koolkombi@... " <koolkombi@...>; " junkrig@yahoogroups.com " <junkrig@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 7:22 PM
                      Subject: RE: [junkrig] Re: Making a Weed Mat Junk Sail

                      Building my boat to sail to Amsterdam ,home of weed sailing.
                      -----Original Message-----
                      Date: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:42:18 pm
                      To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
                      From: Mudskipper <koolkombi@...>
                      Subject: [junkrig] Re: Making a  Weed Mat Junk Sail

                      u guys more into skunk than junk! :))

                      --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "will mcdonald " <willwilly_52@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Makes life better ntm sailing
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > Date: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:25:20 pm
                      > To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
                      > From: Mudskipper <koolkombi@...>
                      > Subject: [junkrig] Re: Making a  Weed
                    • gary
                      Come guys please keep discussion to JR related topics. Cheers, Gary
                      Message 10 of 26 , Apr 3, 2012
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                        Come guys please keep discussion to JR related topics.
                        Cheers, Gary



                        On Tue, 2012-04-03 at 00:33 +0000, will mcdonald wrote:
                        > Have been several times have a dutch friend who owns and operates a gaff rigged dutch barge for tourists on the Islomeer (sp)they all "roll their own" never went on new year`s.ok back to junk rigs. We are getting a little off subject.cheers.
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > Date: Monday, April 02, 2012 8:24:46 pm
                        > To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
                        > From: John Boy <t1ro2003@...>
                        > Subject: Re: [junkrig] Re: Making a Weed Mat Junk Sail
                        >
                        > Awesome New Year's party in A-dam if you ever get there. Woke up in the gutter. Good times... good times...
                        > John Boy
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > You can trust me, I have a degree in science...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ________________________________
                        > From: will mcdonald <willwilly_52@...>
                        > To: "koolkombi@... " <koolkombi@...>; " junkrig@yahoogroups.com " <junkrig@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Sent: Monday, April 2, 2012 7:22 PM
                        > Subject: RE: [junkrig] Re: Making a Weed Mat Junk Sail
                        >
                        > Building my boat to sail to Amsterdam ,home of weed sailing.
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > Date: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:42:18 pm
                        > To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
                        > From: Mudskipper <koolkombi@...>
                        > Subject: [junkrig] Re: Making a Weed Mat Junk Sail
                        >
                        > u guys more into skunk than junk! :))
                        >
                        > --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "will mcdonald " <willwilly_52@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Makes life better ntm sailing
                        > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > Date: Monday, April 02, 2012 6:25:20 pm
                        > > To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
                        > > From: Mudskipper <koolkombi@...>
                        > > Subject: [junkrig] Re: Making a Weed
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > The junkrig "Files" section is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/files/
                        > The junkrig2 overflow "Files" section is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/files/
                        > The "Photos" section is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig/photos
                        > The junkrig2 overflow "Photos" section is at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/junkrig2/photos/
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • grant
                        I get the impression that weed mat is New Zealand-ese for polytarp, rather than a mat made from weeds. Or reeds. Like a reed mat. How s the glue holding up?
                        Message 11 of 26 , Apr 4, 2012
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                          I get the impression that "weed mat" is New Zealand-ese for polytarp, rather than a mat made from weeds. Or reeds. Like a reed mat.

                          How's the glue holding up?


                          --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Mudskipper" <koolkombi@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > please see photos and captions.
                          >
                          > https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/111704006250091309128/#photos/111704006250091309128/albums/5722133746255170353
                          >
                          > --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Mudskipper" <koolkombi@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Hello
                          > >
                          > > I have bitten the bullet and spent a couple of hundred dollars on weed matting and timber battens to make a junk sail for a 10 meter boat.
                          > >
                          > > I came up with some different ideas/ meathods and would be interested in anyone's comments.
                          > >
                          > > Cheers
                          > >
                          > > Roger
                          > >
                          > > http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=2634179827550876521#editor/target=post;postID=5342349470209650294
                          > >
                          > > or
                          > >
                          > > https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/111704006250091309128/#111704006250091309128/about
                          > >
                          >
                        • Gary
                          I see that most commercial weed mats advertise that they allow air to flow through them. Not ideal for a sail?
                          Message 12 of 26 , Apr 4, 2012
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                            I see that most commercial weed mats advertise that they allow air to flow through them. Not ideal for a sail?

                            --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "grant" <grantimatter@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > I get the impression that "weed mat" is New Zealand-ese for polytarp, rather than a mat made from weeds. Or reeds. Like a reed mat.
                          • Mark Hamill
                            HI My two cents but after seeing the illustrations of junk rudders with holes in them and other junk rudders made out of woven wood I was forced to reconsider
                            Message 13 of 26 , Apr 4, 2012
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                              HI
                              My two cents but after seeing the illustrations of junk rudders with holes in them and other junk rudders made out of woven wood I was forced to reconsider what was "right".
                              I remember reading some historical notes that the holes in the sails of chinese made junk rigs did not make much difference according to their owners. The sails were sometimes made out of quite flimsy "shirt" material. Whatever was available and the cheapest. I imagine we have all seen the photos of junk rigs with many patches and holes sailing along.
                              In researching building "western" sails they always seem to say that use material you cannot blow through. However I once built several sails for different lateen canoe rigs with poly/cotton cloth that one could blow through quite easily and it worked very well. Had nothing else to compare it to like a polytarp sail but everyone was very pleased with them and we used them for years. In some winds 2 guys weighing 160 lbs each could sit on the gunnels as the canoe ripped along. Never once capsized and we were passing other sailboats--so they worked and at $2/yd because it was orange really inexpensive to make. I realize that the amount of labor makes it worthwhile to use better materials but at some point...MarkH


                              Subject: [junkrig] Re: Making a Weed Mat Junk Sail



                              I see that most commercial weed mats advertise that they allow air to flow through them. Not ideal for a sail?

                              --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "grant" <grantimatter@...> wrote:



                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Eric
                              Regarding holes in traditional junk rudders. They were put there for several reasons: lighten the rudder. Allow a much larger rudder. Relieve some of the
                              Message 14 of 26 , Apr 4, 2012
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                                Regarding holes in traditional junk rudders. They were put there for several reasons: lighten the rudder. Allow a much larger rudder. Relieve some of the effort of steering. Create efficiency. Properly proportioned holes are rhomboidal shaped with twice the height as width. Critical.

                                When the helm is put over hydrodynamics results in water jamming up as it tries to get through the holes, effectively increasing the area of the rudder. As the flow through the holes establishes itself, pressure on the helm is released, and the bubble on the negative side of the rudder is relieved. Efficiency.

                                The above information is from Cruising As a Way of Life by Thomas E. Colvin.

                                It seems to me that holes in a sail would to some undesirable extent catch gusts and then release steady winds. Not efficient even if, as people say, junk sails work when western sails would be useless.

                                Eric


                                --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Hamill" <mhamill1@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > HI
                                > My two cents but after seeing the illustrations of junk rudders with holes in them and other junk rudders made out of woven wood I was forced to reconsider what was "right".
                                > I remember reading some historical notes that the holes in the sails of chinese made junk rigs did not make much difference according to their owners. The sails were sometimes made out of quite flimsy "shirt" material. Whatever was available and the cheapest. I imagine we have all seen the photos of junk rigs with many patches and holes sailing along.
                                > In researching building "western" sails they always seem to say that use material you cannot blow through. However I once built several sails for different lateen canoe rigs with poly/cotton cloth that one could blow through quite easily and it worked very well. Had nothing else to compare it to like a polytarp sail but everyone was very pleased with them and we used them for years. In some winds 2 guys weighing 160 lbs each could sit on the gunnels as the canoe ripped along. Never once capsized and we were passing other sailboats--so they worked and at $2/yd because it was orange really inexpensive to make. I realize that the amount of labor makes it worthwhile to use better materials but at some point...MarkH
                                >
                                >
                                > Subject: [junkrig] Re: Making a Weed Mat Junk Sail
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I see that most commercial weed mats advertise that they allow air to flow through them. Not ideal for a sail?
                                >
                                > --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "grant" <grantimatter@> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                              • Jeff Clithero
                                My 2 pennies worth... I doubt if enough air seeps through the black matting to matter. My sails are made of fabric store linen, definitely feel the air blow
                                Message 15 of 26 , Apr 4, 2012
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                                  My 2 pennies worth... I doubt if enough air seeps through the black matting
                                  to matter. My sails are made of fabric store linen, definitely feel the air
                                  blow through, but they work really well for me. The billow nicely in a
                                  breeze, and they're inexpensive to replace. But in 2 years of frequent use
                                  the show no sign of stress.

                                  My new boat's ( a 1965 Alacrity 19') first junk rig sails will be 200 sq
                                  feet of muslin, sewing in the process. You can learn a lot be using a good
                                  magnifying glass on actual photo's of Yangtze junks, they came in countless
                                  varieties to fit the traditions and needs of what they were used for..

                                  My advice is worth the price you paid for it, less than 2 cents.

                                  Have fun.

                                  Jeff
                                  On Apr 2, 2012 2:49 PM, "Mark Hamill" <mhamill1@...> wrote:

                                  > **
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Just a thought---Here in BC most people smoke the weed rather than make
                                  > sails out of it :)
                                  > .
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Arne Kverneland, Norway
                                  Stavanger, Thursday I too would not be much worried about air seeping through cloth. When we make the blow test, we can easily produce a 25-50 hectoPascal
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Apr 5, 2012
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                                    Stavanger, Thursday

                                    I too would not be much worried about air seeping through cloth. When we make the blow test, we can easily produce a 25-50 hectoPascal (=Millibars). However, in normal sailing winds the (differential) pressure in the sail is just a fraction of a hectoPascal, so the pressure loss because of air leakage should not be that big.
                                    My main concern when making a sail would be that it will not fall apart right away from rot or sunrot. After all it takes a bit effort to make a sail. Right now I uploaded a photo of Malena which shows her sailing in her last (2010) season with the blue cambered panel sail from 1994. There are several holes in the upper panels, but since the bolt rope never failed, the sail was still fully operational, although mouldy and sun-burnt.
                                    Arne
                                    PS: The photo is found under "Arne's photos of Malena"


                                    --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Clithero <jeff@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > My 2 pennies worth... I doubt if enough air seeps through the black matting
                                    > to matter. My sails are made of fabric store linen, definitely feel the air
                                    > blow through, but they work really well for me. The billow nicely in a
                                    > breeze, and they're inexpensive to replace. But in 2 years of frequent use
                                    > the show no sign of stress.
                                    >
                                    > My new boat's ( a 1965 Alacrity 19') first junk rig sails will be 200 sq
                                    > feet of muslin, sewing in the process. You can learn a lot be using a good
                                    > magnifying glass on actual photo's of Yangtze junks, they came in countless
                                    > varieties to fit the traditions and needs of what they were used for..
                                    >
                                    > My advice is worth the price you paid for it, less than 2 cents.
                                    >
                                    > Have fun.
                                    >
                                    > Jeff
                                    >
                                  • Gary
                                    I think your rig is going to work fine. Maybe make a sail cover too, as that polytarp (weed mat?) stuff only lasts a year or so in the sun. Terrible UV
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Apr 6, 2012
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                                      I think your rig is going to work fine.
                                      Maybe make a sail cover too, as that polytarp (weed mat?) stuff only lasts a year or so in the sun. Terrible UV resistance..
                                      Are you aware of building camber into the sail the Reddish way? Lay the sail on grass, put bricks on each panel before clamping your battens on. Built in bagginess.

                                      --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Mudskipper" <koolkombi@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > please see photos and captions.
                                      >
                                      > https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/111704006250091309128/#photos/111704006250091309128/albums/5722133746255170353
                                      >
                                      > --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Mudskipper" <koolkombi@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Hello
                                      > >
                                      > > I have bitten the bullet and spent a couple of hundred dollars on weed matting and timber battens to make a junk sail for a 10 meter boat.
                                      > >
                                      > > I came up with some different ideas/ meathods and would be interested in anyone's comments.
                                      > >
                                      > > Cheers
                                      > >
                                      > > Roger
                                      > >
                                      > > http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=2634179827550876521#editor/target=post;postID=5342349470209650294
                                      > >
                                      > > or
                                      > >
                                      > > https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/111704006250091309128/#111704006250091309128/about
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • Gary
                                      Don t know much about shoestrings, but have you seen the boat of the month on the JRA website? http://junkrigassociation.org/ (scroll down a little) Same as
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Apr 7, 2012
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                                        Don't know much about shoestrings, but have you seen the boat of the month on the JRA website?
                                        http://junkrigassociation.org/
                                        (scroll down a little)
                                        Same as your boat right? He has a cambered sail on it.

                                        I'm in the process of making the rig for my boat so have not sailed a JR yet.
                                        However, I thought camber in a sail changes the direction of the resultant force, more forwards, not increasing the heel angle.
                                        But you are doing a quick easy job, not worth changing it now.. and flat sails handle better, they say.

                                        > If I went back to original rig, I was wondering about having a camber cut into
                                        > the sail. Arne has had good results, but Johanna is a proper keelboat with a
                                        > deeper draft and small cockpit. There are photos of Joanna leaning over quite
                                        > far and it's not an issue. The deck is so big on Shoestring that you have
                                        > nothing to put your feet against when she is on the lean, and it is easy to fall
                                        > out the lee side! Shoestring is built to remain reasonably flat on the water.



                                        --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Mudskipper" <koolkombi@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hello
                                        >
                                        > I have bitten the bullet and spent a couple of hundred dollars on weed matting and timber battens to make a junk sail for a 10 meter boat.
                                        >
                                        > I came up with some different ideas/ meathods and would be interested in anyone's comments.
                                        >
                                        > Cheers
                                        >
                                        > Roger
                                        >
                                        > http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=2634179827550876521#editor/target=post;postID=5342349470209650294
                                        >
                                        > or
                                        >
                                        > https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/111704006250091309128/#111704006250091309128/about
                                        >
                                      • Mark Hamill
                                        I suddenly realized I had no idea what Weed Mat really was -- so Googled--Is it the Black woven material in these pictures that is literally meant to keep
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Apr 8, 2012
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                                          I suddenly realized I had no idea what Weed Mat really was -- so Googled--Is it the Black woven material in these pictures that is literally meant to keep weeds from growing up ?? And is it porous to allow water to go through--I notice that some people do not recommend it for gardening or agricultural use because some may not be porous -just wondering. http://www.tarp-weedmat.com/index.php/product/index/weed-mat.html Thanks, MarkH

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                                        • ANDREW AIREY
                                          The stuff available in the UK is like a heavy duty black polytarp and lets water through cheers andy airey [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Apr 10, 2012
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                                            The stuff available in the UK is like a heavy duty black polytarp and lets water through
                                            cheers
                                            andy airey

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                                          • Arne Kverneland, Norway
                                            I just wonder: The market is full of fairly cheap canvases that will be good for making junk sails from. They have some resistance to sunshine and rot, they
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Apr 11, 2012
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                                              I just wonder:
                                              The market is full of fairly cheap canvases that will be good for making junk sails from. They have some resistance to sunshine and rot, they are fairly wind-tight and they are easy to cut and sew.
                                              Why then jump onto this weed matting which from what I see on the web appears to be the worst possible material for sail making, only beaten by toilet paper? When lots of work and/or dollars have been spent on a boat, why then aim for rags to make the sail from? I simply cannot understand this.
                                              Arne
                                            • Mudskipper
                                              I think second hand sails are a good option. (I think that is what you mean by canvas) Traditional canvas might be a just as badly affected by the strong UV in
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Apr 12, 2012
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                                                I think second hand sails are a good option. (I think that is what you mean by canvas) Traditional canvas might be a just as badly affected by the strong UV in New Zealand.

                                                I am not sure if there is much difference between weed mat and blue polytarp you guys use. Sure there is the UV factor, but the idea is to experiment with sail shape on the cheap to get the right shape before spending money on more expensive materials. I certaainly wouldn't wnat to use weedmat to wipe my arse but are welcome to try.

                                                --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Arne Kverneland, Norway" <arkverne@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > I just wonder:
                                                > The market is full of fairly cheap canvases that will be good for making junk sails from. They have some resistance to sunshine and rot, they are fairly wind-tight and they are easy to cut and sew.
                                                > Why then jump onto this weed matting which from what I see on the web appears to be the worst possible material for sail making, only beaten by toilet paper? When lots of work and/or dollars have been spent on a boat, why then aim for rags to make the sail from? I simply cannot understand this.
                                                > Arne
                                                >
                                              • Mudskipper
                                                Thank you for that. It is a tidy looking rig and it is tracking along quite well indeed. But yes, I have started with this idea and would like trial it anyway.
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Apr 12, 2012
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                                                  Thank you for that. It is a tidy looking rig and it is tracking along quite well indeed. But yes, I have started with this idea and would like trial it anyway.

                                                  Shoestring was originally designed to be a Gaff Cutter with the mast set slightly aft. Footprint is the same design as Shoestring but opted for Junk, and quite successfully by the looks of it. It will be interesting to compare the different ideas and hopefully we can meet up at the next NZ Ralley.

                                                  --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <colourfx@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > Don't know much about shoestrings, but have you seen the boat of the month on the JRA website?
                                                  > http://junkrigassociation.org/
                                                  > (scroll down a little)
                                                  > Same as your boat right? He has a cambered sail on it.
                                                  >
                                                  > I'm in the process of making the rig for my boat so have not sailed a JR yet.
                                                  > However, I thought camber in a sail changes the direction of the resultant force, more forwards, not increasing the heel angle.
                                                  > But you are doing a quick easy job, not worth changing it now.. and flat sails handle better, they say.
                                                  >
                                                  > > If I went back to original rig, I was wondering about having a camber cut into
                                                  > > the sail. Arne has had good results, but Johanna is a proper keelboat with a
                                                  > > deeper draft and small cockpit. There are photos of Joanna leaning over quite
                                                  > > far and it's not an issue. The deck is so big on Shoestring that you have
                                                  > > nothing to put your feet against when she is on the lean, and it is easy to fall
                                                  > > out the lee side! Shoestring is built to remain reasonably flat on the water.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Mudskipper" <koolkombi@> wrote:
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Hello
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I have bitten the bullet and spent a couple of hundred dollars on weed matting and timber battens to make a junk sail for a 10 meter boat.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > I came up with some different ideas/ meathods and would be interested in anyone's comments.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Cheers
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Roger
                                                  > >
                                                  > > http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=2634179827550876521#editor/target=post;postID=5342349470209650294
                                                  > >
                                                  > > or
                                                  > >
                                                  > > https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/111704006250091309128/#111704006250091309128/about
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                • Mudskipper
                                                  Hi Arne, Sorry, no offence about the toilet paper joke. There are weed mats and weed mats. This Aussi stuff is really hard wearing and UV protected. So
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Apr 12, 2012
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                                                    Hi Arne,

                                                    Sorry, no offence about the toilet paper joke. There are weed mats and weed mats. This Aussi stuff is really hard wearing and UV protected. So definately not to be used in the bathroom...unless you are a hardy Viking:0)

                                                    Rgds

                                                    Roger

                                                    http://www.shadeaustralia.com.au/categories/Weed+Mat/212/

                                                    --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Arne Kverneland, Norway" <arkverne@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > I just wonder:
                                                    > The market is full of fairly cheap canvases that will be good for making junk sails from. They have some resistance to sunshine and rot, they are fairly wind-tight and they are easy to cut and sew.
                                                    > Why then jump onto this weed matting which from what I see on the web appears to be the worst possible material for sail making, only beaten by toilet paper? When lots of work and/or dollars have been spent on a boat, why then aim for rags to make the sail from? I simply cannot understand this.
                                                    > Arne
                                                    >
                                                  • gary
                                                    Many of us have used Odyssey III material not blue polytarp. I have some weedmat here but I certainly would not consider it as sail material. However I will be
                                                    Message 25 of 26 , Apr 12, 2012
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                                                      Many of us have used Odyssey III material not blue polytarp. I have some
                                                      weedmat here but I certainly would not consider it as sail material.
                                                      However I will be interested in how it fairs.
                                                      Gary



                                                      On Thu, 2012-04-12 at 09:01 +0000, Mudskipper wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      > Thank you for that. It is a tidy looking rig and it is tracking along
                                                      > quite well indeed. But yes, I have started with this idea and would
                                                      > like trial it anyway.
                                                      >
                                                      > Shoestring was originally designed to be a Gaff Cutter with the mast
                                                      > set slightly aft. Footprint is the same design as Shoestring but opted
                                                      > for Junk, and quite successfully by the looks of it. It will be
                                                      > interesting to compare the different ideas and hopefully we can meet
                                                      > up at the next NZ Ralley.
                                                      >
                                                      > --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Gary" <colourfx@...> wrote:
                                                      > >
                                                      > > Don't know much about shoestrings, but have you seen the boat of the
                                                      > month on the JRA website?
                                                      > > http://junkrigassociation.org/
                                                      > > (scroll down a little)
                                                      > > Same as your boat right? He has a cambered sail on it.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > I'm in the process of making the rig for my boat so have not sailed
                                                      > a JR yet.
                                                      > > However, I thought camber in a sail changes the direction of the
                                                      > resultant force, more forwards, not increasing the heel angle.
                                                      > > But you are doing a quick easy job, not worth changing it now.. and
                                                      > flat sails handle better, they say.
                                                      > >
                                                      > > > If I went back to original rig, I was wondering about having a
                                                      > camber cut into
                                                      > > > the sail. Arne has had good results, but Johanna is a proper
                                                      > keelboat with a
                                                      > > > deeper draft and small cockpit. There are photos of Joanna leaning
                                                      > over quite
                                                      > > > far and it's not an issue. The deck is so big on Shoestring that
                                                      > you have
                                                      > > > nothing to put your feet against when she is on the lean, and it
                                                      > is easy to fall
                                                      > > > out the lee side! Shoestring is built to remain reasonably flat on
                                                      > the water.
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > >
                                                      > > --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Mudskipper" <koolkombi@> wrote:
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Hello
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > I have bitten the bullet and spent a couple of hundred dollars on
                                                      > weed matting and timber battens to make a junk sail for a 10 meter
                                                      > boat.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > I came up with some different ideas/ meathods and would be
                                                      > interested in anyone's comments.
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Cheers
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > Roger
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > http://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=2634179827550876521#editor/target=post;postID=5342349470209650294
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > > or
                                                      > > >
                                                      > > >
                                                      > https://plus.google.com/u/0/b/111704006250091309128/#111704006250091309128/about
                                                      > > >
                                                      > >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                    • koolkombi
                                                      Hi Gary, Sorry for the long delay in replying. I have been sailing quite a lot this season in New Zealand in a wide variety of conditions. Regarding the weed
                                                      Message 26 of 26 , Jan 29, 2014
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                                                        Hi Gary,


                                                        Sorry for the long delay in replying. I have been sailing quite a lot this season in New Zealand in a wide variety of conditions. 


                                                        Regarding the weed mat material, I really can't fault it so far with regards to strength. It seems to hold quite good shape as well. It hasn't been covered for almost two years to protect from the sun's UV rays and there is no sign of rot. 


                                                        The latest trip was to the northern part of New Zealand (Bay of Islands and Whangaroa Harbour) from Auckland and on the return journey I sailed across to Great Barrier Island in a stiff south wester before coming back to Auckland.


                                                        UV stabilized woven polypropylene is certainly a viable option but because you can't stitch it I had to use other methods to piece it together so it doesn't fray. The glue you get these days is really good, so good that once it had gone off you can't even put a needle through it; which is what I was planning to do (stitch and glue). There is no need. I did use an industrial stapler to give added strength, but I don't even think that is necessary.


                                                        I have done my sailing for this season but aim to change the sail shape. The stumpy flat sail three mast rig is lively, fun and well balanced in stronger winds, but underpowered in anything under 10 knots. I hope to have a taller steel mast made this coming winter. On the way across to great Barrier Island, 1/2 meter of glueline on the timber mast opened up at the partners to about 12 mm with an unnerving crack before the weed mat sail gave out (the latter which is still as it was when first made). It was gusting quite hard on the open water and possibly even harder in Abercrombie harbour where the wind tends to funnel down the valleys. The 5 tonne shoal draft Underwood 33 is flat bottomed, and it felt like I was sailing a racing dinghy when the gusts hit. I think that was a fair test for the sail material and pine timber battens that are wrapped within the material. It is also a good test for Chinese balanced lug. It is really the framework (bolt rope and battens) that ensure the sail holds together. To be honest I am myself surprised how strong it is.


                                                        It wasn't the first blast the sail had. Coming north I was caught in a nasty squall followed by strong south westers again. I purposely did not reef to see what it took. The sail did not flinch. Prior to that in mid December, on the way back from Kawau Island to Auckland. South Westers kicked in once again and I was close hauled against an uncomfortable chop for about 6 hours then bore off on a broad reech where I had to reef main and drop fore and mizzen to hide behind Rangitoto Island for the night.


                                                        The sail has been put through some reasonably stroppy weather and I am confident that the material is not to be sneezed at. It is just a matter of refining how to create a better sail shape.



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