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Re: [junkrig] Sanders

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  • Andres Espino
    I recently bought the oscillating multitool sander cutter with the triangle shaped sanding head to get into small areas.  In addition to the stick on sanding
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 1 6:48 AM
      I recently bought the oscillating multitool sander cutter with the triangle shaped sanding head to get into small areas.  In addition to the stick on sanding sheets there are also a heavy duty carbide grit blades which do not wear out fast like the paper sanding sheets.  These have carbide grit bonded right to a metal blade of varying shape and sizes  round, half moon, pointy, spade etc.  I bought an off name clone of the $300 advertised on TV model from Northern Tool and it seems good enough for my temp use at less than a third the advertised price.  I have used it a lot so far over a 3 month period.

      Andrew


      --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Gerald <china.lug@...> wrote:

      From: Gerald <china.lug@...>
      Subject: [junkrig] Sanders
      To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 12:42 AM







       









      While Ivory Gull is out of the water we're going to get her woodwork - mercifully not too much - rubbed down and oiled. I have a small detail sander which will be able to get into those hard to manage corners and do the little stuff and so on but does anyone have a view as to the best type of sander for getting rid of thick, old varnish on larger areas? There's hand rails and ??toe rails?? - wooden strips fastened fore to aft along the bottom of the guard rails - as well as cockpit seats and the pilot house bulkhead with windows and doors. I just took a look at the Screwfix website where there's pages of sanders and haven't got a clue where to begin.



      Her undersides were remarkably clean after lying in the river for nine months but there was a long, thick clump of weed on the bottom of each bilge plate where she stood on blocks while she was out and which I obviously forgot to anti-foul, and the propeller was dreadfully foul. I had suspected this when I first started her up and put her in gear, stalling the engine several times.



      With best wishes,



      Gerry.






















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Paul T. Howard
      A sander is not always the best tool to take off thick, old and many layered varnish.  Many sheets of sandpaper get clogged up with the gumming varnish and
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 1 7:02 AM
        A sander is not always the best tool to take off thick, old and many layered varnish.  Many sheets of sandpaper get clogged up with the 'gumming' varnish and lots of dust flies.
        Often old varnish has lost some of its adhesion to the wood and a scraper is the best tool, especially for getting into odd corners and scroll work and inside corners.
        I have a variety of scrapers that I use: wide long handled for two hands, small pointed ones, curved blades, both convex and concave as well as flat.  Keep the edges sharp with a fine file, a flat file for the flat blades and a half-round for the curved concave blades.

        Work the scrapers first, then clean up the remaining residue with a power sander on large areas and a hand sander for smaller.  Wrap sand paper around a dowel and hand sand for inside curves.
        Scrapers are the quickest, most cost effective and environmentally harmless way of cleaning off old varnish.
        Paul Howard




        ________________________________
        From: Gerald <china.lug@...>
        To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 2:42:31 AM
        Subject: [junkrig] Sanders


         
        While Ivory Gull is out of the water we're going to get her woodwork - mercifully not too much - rubbed down and oiled. I have a small detail sander which will be able to get into those hard to manage corners and do the little stuff and so on but does anyone have a view as to the best type of sander for getting rid of thick, old varnish on larger areas? There's hand rails and ??toe rails?? - wooden strips fastened fore to aft along the bottom of the guard rails - as well as cockpit seats and the pilot house bulkhead with windows and doors. I just took a look at the Screwfix website where there's pages of sanders and haven't got a clue where to begin.

        Her undersides were remarkably clean after lying in the river for nine months but there was a long, thick clump of weed on the bottom of each bilge plate where she stood on blocks while she was out and which I obviously forgot to anti-foul, and the propeller was dreadfully foul. I had suspected this when I first started her up and put her in gear, stalling the engine several times.

        With best wishes,

        Gerry.




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mark Hamill
        There was a good article on sanders for fairing hulls in WBoat many moons ago. They recommended an orbital sander (variable speed to 1250 rpm) with a foam
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 1 8:27 AM
          There was a good article on sanders for fairing hulls in WBoat many moons ago. They recommended an orbital sander (variable speed to 1250 rpm) with a foam backed pad--I think. MarkH


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • lself100
          Another alternative is heatgun and paint scrapper.
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 1 11:52 AM
            Another alternative is heatgun and paint scrapper.

            --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Paul T. Howard" <pault_howard@...> wrote:
            >
            > A sander is not always the best tool to take off thick, old and many layered varnish.  Many sheets of sandpaper get clogged up with the 'gumming' varnish and lots of dust flies.
            > Often old varnish has lost some of its adhesion to the wood and a scraper is the best tool, especially for getting into odd corners and scroll work and inside corners.
            > I have a variety of scrapers that I use: wide long handled for two hands, small pointed ones, curved blades, both convex and concave as well as flat.  Keep the edges sharp with a fine file, a flat file for the flat blades and a half-round for the curved concave blades.
            >
            > Work the scrapers first, then clean up the remaining residue with a power sander on large areas and a hand sander for smaller.  Wrap sand paper around a dowel and hand sand for inside curves.
            > Scrapers are the quickest, most cost effective and environmentally harmless way of cleaning off old varnish.
            > Paul Howard
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From: Gerald <china.lug@...>
            > To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Friday, July 1, 2011 2:42:31 AM
            > Subject: [junkrig] Sanders
            >
            >
            >  
            > While Ivory Gull is out of the water we're going to get her woodwork - mercifully not too much - rubbed down and oiled. I have a small detail sander which will be able to get into those hard to manage corners and do the little stuff and so on but does anyone have a view as to the best type of sander for getting rid of thick, old varnish on larger areas? There's hand rails and ??toe rails?? - wooden strips fastened fore to aft along the bottom of the guard rails - as well as cockpit seats and the pilot house bulkhead with windows and doors. I just took a look at the Screwfix website where there's pages of sanders and haven't got a clue where to begin.
            >
            > Her undersides were remarkably clean after lying in the river for nine months but there was a long, thick clump of weed on the bottom of each bilge plate where she stood on blocks while she was out and which I obviously forgot to anti-foul, and the propeller was dreadfully foul. I had suspected this when I first started her up and put her in gear, stalling the engine several times.
            >
            > With best wishes,
            >
            > Gerry.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Barry Stellrecht
            I would highly recommend a random orbit sander. Many areas you are sanding are probably a bit smaller than the discs, but you will still be able to put one to
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 1 12:09 PM
              I would highly recommend a random orbit sander. Many areas you are
              sanding are probably a bit smaller than the discs, but you will still be
              able to put one to good use. I've had very good luck with them for most
              everything except heavy grinding of fiberglass or doing a bottom job.

              They leave a smoother finish than a belt sander or grinder, actually as
              good or better than a orbital sander, but remove material quite quickly.

              There are electric random orbit sanders, and air powered ones ("Dual
              Axis" or "DA"), and I've not had experience with the air version, but I
              wouldn't hesitate to recommend them if you already have air tools and a
              compressor. I've mostly seem them with a 5" or 6" disc size, and have
              found that the smaller size worked well for me.

              The biggest "gotcha" is the sanding discs themselves. They can be
              attached by velcro, or by pressure sensitive adhesive, and the sander
              has vent holes for extracting dust...some have 5 holes, some have 8
              holes, and I've seen some sandpaper with a few slotted holes that can
              fit either hole pattern. So go to your local store where you will be
              buying discs, and see what the selection is, and if one sort is much
              cheaper than the other.....and then make sure you get a sander which
              will work with them. Variable speed is nice, although you won't need it
              too often. Mine is Porter-Cable, but I have no idea what brands are
              available in the UK. I would also pick one that is comfortable in your
              hands--I find that I alternate between one-handed and two-handed usage
              on mine, so check how it feels both ways.

              One final note--if you can attach your shopvac to the dust extraction
              system, it will make a lot less of a mess, and also could help your
              sandpaper last a little longer before clogging.

              If you find that the old stuff is sooooo thick that the ROS isn't making
              fast enough progress, and you need to buy a bigger tool, you might want
              to start with a belt sander (for flat surfaces), or an angle grinder
              with a soft pad (for curved surfaces). You will still want to finish up
              after either one with a ROS....and be real careful with the angle
              grinder--it is very agressive. I used one to shape handles into my oars
              after I shortened them by a foot...it only took 5 minutes or so per oar.

              I hope your haulout goes well--Flutterby is stored out right now...we'll
              be back at it in the fall, then we intend to stay in the water for a
              while this time!

              Barry

              On 7/1/11 2:42 AM, Gerald wrote:
              > While Ivory Gull is out of the water we're going to get her woodwork - mercifully not too much - rubbed down and oiled. I have a small detail sander which will be able to get into those hard to manage corners and do the little stuff and so on but does anyone have a view as to the best type of sander for getting rid of thick, old varnish on larger areas? There's hand rails and ??toe rails?? - wooden strips fastened fore to aft along the bottom of the guard rails - as well as cockpit seats and the pilot house bulkhead with windows and doors. I just took a look at the Screwfix website where there's pages of sanders and haven't got a clue where to begin.

              --
              s/v Flutterby
              Freedom 33 cat ketch undergoing conversion to a junk rig
            • Steve Studley
              Got to say it, any sander is cheap. The paper gets outrageous. If you can scrape most of it, you are bags of money ahead. Also a scraper made from spring steel
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 1 3:56 PM
                Got to say it, any sander is cheap. The paper gets outrageous. If you can
                scrape most of it, you are bags of money ahead. Also a scraper made from
                spring steel with a burr on it will do a smoother job than 500 grit wet
                sanding, with a bit of patience and practice.

                Steve S


                On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 2:42 AM, Gerald <china.lug@...> wrote:

                > **
                >
                >
                > While Ivory Gull is out of the water we're going to get her woodwork -
                > mercifully not too much - rubbed down and oiled. I have a small detail
                > sander which will be able to get into those hard to manage corners and do
                > the little stuff and so on but does anyone have a view as to the best type
                > of sander for getting rid of thick, old varnish on larger areas? There's
                > hand rails and ??toe rails?? - wooden strips fastened fore to aft along the
                > bottom of the guard rails - as well as cockpit seats and the pilot house
                > bulkhead with windows and doors. I just took a look at the Screwfix website
                > where there's pages of sanders and haven't got a clue where to begin.
                >
                > Her undersides were remarkably clean after lying in the river for nine
                > months but there was a long, thick clump of weed on the bottom of each bilge
                > plate where she stood on blocks while she was out and which I obviously
                > forgot to anti-foul, and the propeller was dreadfully foul. I had suspected
                > this when I first started her up and put her in gear, stalling the engine
                > several times.
                >
                > With best wishes,
                >
                > Gerry.
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mark Hamill
                If you are just removing lots of old varnish then possibly one of the Organic paint removers might be the best--I used some of that to remove layers of
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 1 4:12 PM
                  If you are just removing lots of old varnish then possibly one of the "Organic" paint removers might be the best--I used some of that to remove layers of bottom paint one time and it was very effective. The paint removers I am thinking of are the next generation of strippers that are not like the really stinky old chemical strippers.
                  (Further to sanders--the "orbital sander" I mentioned looks like a grinder but operates at much lower rpm) MarkH


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Roger Scott
                  When I bought my boat for 5 dollars the original owner also sold me a scraper worth 15000 dollars. It has been invaluable! Sent from my iPod
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 1 4:47 PM
                    When I bought my boat for 5 dollars the original owner also sold me a scraper worth 15000 dollars. It has been invaluable!

                    Sent from my iPod

                    On Jul 2, 23 Heisei, at 11:12 AM, "Mark Hamill" <mhamill1@...> wrote:

                    > MarkH
                  • Alan Boucher
                    ... One of the best random orbital sander/vacuum packages is made by Festool. They actually have several variations of sanders all of which can be connected
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 1 5:10 PM
                      On 7/1/2011 3:09 PM, Barry Stellrecht wrote:
                      >
                      > I would highly recommend a random orbit sander. Many areas you are
                      > sanding are probably a bit smaller than the discs, but you will still be
                      > able to put one to good use. I've had very good luck with them for most
                      > everything except heavy grinding of fiberglass or doing a bottom job.
                      >
                      > They leave a smoother finish than a belt sander or grinder, actually as
                      > good or better than a orbital sander, but remove material quite quickly.
                      >
                      > There are electric random orbit sanders, and air powered ones ("Dual
                      > Axis" or "DA"), and I've not had experience with the air version, but I
                      > wouldn't hesitate to recommend them if you already have air tools and a
                      > compressor. I've mostly seem them with a 5" or 6" disc size, and have
                      > found that the smaller size worked well for me.
                      >
                      > The biggest "gotcha" is the sanding discs themselves. They can be
                      > attached by velcro, or by pressure sensitive adhesive, and the sander
                      > has vent holes for extracting dust...some have 5 holes, some have 8
                      > holes, and I've seen some sandpaper with a few slotted holes that can
                      > fit either hole pattern. So go to your local store where you will be
                      > buying discs, and see what the selection is, and if one sort is much
                      > cheaper than the other.....and then make sure you get a sander which
                      > will work with them. Variable speed is nice, although you won't need it
                      > too often. Mine is Porter-Cable, but I have no idea what brands are
                      > available in the UK. I would also pick one that is comfortable in your
                      > hands--I find that I alternate between one-handed and two-handed usage
                      > on mine, so check how it feels both ways.
                      >
                      > One final note--if you can attach your shopvac to the dust extraction
                      > system, it will make a lot less of a mess, and also could help your
                      > sandpaper last a little longer before clogging.
                      >
                      > If you find that the old stuff is sooooo thick that the ROS isn't making
                      > fast enough progress, and you need to buy a bigger tool, you might want
                      > to start with a belt sander (for flat surfaces), or an angle grinder
                      > with a soft pad (for curved surfaces). You will still want to finish up
                      > after either one with a ROS....and be real careful with the angle
                      > grinder--it is very agressive. I used one to shape handles into my oars
                      > after I shortened them by a foot...it only took 5 minutes or so per oar.
                      >
                      > I hope your haulout goes well--Flutterby is stored out right now...we'll
                      > be back at it in the fall, then we intend to stay in the water for a
                      > while this time!
                      >
                      > Barry
                      >
                      > On 7/1/11 2:42 AM, Gerald wrote:
                      > > While Ivory Gull is out of the water we're going to get her woodwork
                      > - mercifully not too much - rubbed down and oiled. I have a small
                      > detail sander which will be able to get into those hard to manage
                      > corners and do the little stuff and so on but does anyone have a view
                      > as to the best type of sander for getting rid of thick, old varnish on
                      > larger areas? There's hand rails and ??toe rails?? - wooden strips
                      > fastened fore to aft along the bottom of the guard rails - as well as
                      > cockpit seats and the pilot house bulkhead with windows and doors. I
                      > just took a look at the Screwfix website where there's pages of
                      > sanders and haven't got a clue where to begin.
                      >
                      > --
                      > s/v Flutterby
                      > Freedom 33 cat ketch undergoing conversion to a junk rig
                      >
                      >
                      One of the best random orbital sander/vacuum packages is made by
                      Festool. They actually have several variations of sanders all of which
                      can be connected to one of their auto start vacuums. The only major
                      setback is the price range. The sander and vacuum will set you back
                      about $800.





                      fest


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Jonathan Davis
                      Gerry In my experience trying to sand off thick varnish is unlikely to provide good results. Even with an orbital sander you will likely sand highs and lows
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 1 9:47 PM
                        Gerry

                        In my experience trying to sand off thick varnish is unlikely to provide
                        good results. Even with an orbital sander you will likely sand highs and
                        lows into the underlying wood. The best way to remove thick old varnish is
                        to use a fairly thick putty knife and a heat gun. Heat the varnish, it gets
                        soft, slide the putty knife into it and it will lift off in sheets.
                        Sometimes we also use a hooked scraper to get into the detail areas. You
                        should be able to remove 95% or more quickly and without damaging the
                        underlying teak. When you have all the varnish off that you can get, sand
                        and you are ready to go. Assuming your bulkhead is 25 square feet, I would
                        guess about 5-6 hours to strip. And sometimes much less.



                        Jon Davis

                        Davis Boat Works



                        _____

                        From: junkrig@yahoogroups.com [mailto:junkrig@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
                        Gerald
                        Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 2:43 AM
                        To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: [junkrig] Sanders





                        While Ivory Gull is out of the water we're going to get her woodwork -
                        mercifully not too much - rubbed down and oiled. I have a small detail
                        sander which will be able to get into those hard to manage corners and do
                        the little stuff and so on but does anyone have a view as to the best type
                        of sander for getting rid of thick, old varnish on larger areas? There's
                        hand rails and ??toe rails?? - wooden strips fastened fore to aft along the
                        bottom of the guard rails - as well as cockpit seats and the pilot house
                        bulkhead with windows and doors. I just took a look at the Screwfix website
                        where there's pages of sanders and haven't got a clue where to begin.

                        Her undersides were remarkably clean after lying in the river for nine
                        months but there was a long, thick clump of weed on the bottom of each bilge
                        plate where she stood on blocks while she was out and which I obviously
                        forgot to anti-foul, and the propeller was dreadfully foul. I had suspected
                        this when I first started her up and put her in gear, stalling the engine
                        several times.

                        With best wishes,

                        Gerry.





                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Chris
                        I d check with David Tyler Gerry - It looks like epoxy to me rather than varnish.
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jul 2 7:28 AM
                          I'd check with David Tyler Gerry - It looks like epoxy to me rather than varnish.

                          --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Gerald" <china.lug@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > While Ivory Gull is out of the water we're going to get her woodwork - mercifully not too much - rubbed down and oiled. I have a small detail sander which will be able to get into those hard to manage corners and do the little stuff and so on but does anyone have a view as to the best type of sander for getting rid of thick, old varnish on larger areas? There's hand rails and ??toe rails?? - wooden strips fastened fore to aft along the bottom of the guard rails - as well as cockpit seats and the pilot house bulkhead with windows and doors. I just took a look at the Screwfix website where there's pages of sanders and haven't got a clue where to begin.
                          >
                          > Her undersides were remarkably clean after lying in the river for nine months but there was a long, thick clump of weed on the bottom of each bilge plate where she stood on blocks while she was out and which I obviously forgot to anti-foul, and the propeller was dreadfully foul. I had suspected this when I first started her up and put her in gear, stalling the engine several times.
                          >
                          > With best wishes,
                          >
                          > Gerry.
                          >
                        • Donal Philby
                          Random orbitals come in at least two versions. I have both the smaller RO palm from Porter Cable and two of the big right angle 6² jobs, each of which has
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jul 2 7:32 AM
                            Random orbitals come in at least two versions. I have both the smaller RO
                            palm from Porter Cable and two of the big right angle 6² jobs, each of which
                            has been rebuilt once. My shoulder and a spot on my back where the muscles
                            connect cannot, unfortunately, be rebuilt (but acupuncture helped). The
                            palm is nice for smoothing. But the larger models can really remove some
                            material with 40-50 grit. Very different animals. I converted the 6" to 5²
                            pad for two reasons: I only have to stock one size media and the smaller
                            disc gives better dust collection (but can¹t get as close to the edge). If
                            you do such a conversion, though, make sure to change the counterweights to
                            match. The really important thing is to get a very good vacuum. I also
                            bought the Porter Cable shop vac and it has run hundreds of hours
                            flawlessly. Plug your tool into the vac and it automatically turns the vac
                            on, and waits 10 seconds to clear the tube when you shut down the sander.
                            Used a lot by dry wall workers. And pretty quiet. All the rest of my power
                            tools are Makita, but this set of tools has done wonders during a long
                            refit, including resheathing a 38 foot wood hull with three layers of 18 oz
                            biax and epoxy, sanding each layer smooth before the next. If you are full
                            time builder or have a fat purse, look at the Festool system. The double
                            tubed hose alone goes for about US$250.

                            donal


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • gary
                            The beauty of random orbitals is they don t leave the little swirly marks that the orbitals, which show up under varnish. Gary
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jul 2 2:52 PM
                              The beauty of random orbitals is they don't leave the little swirly
                              marks that the orbitals, which show up under varnish.
                              Gary


                              do On Fri, 2011-07-01 at 06:48 -0700, Andres Espino wrote:
                              >
                              > I recently bought the oscillating multitool sander cutter with the
                              > triangle shaped sanding head to get into small areas. In addition to
                              > the stick on sanding sheets there are also a heavy duty carbide grit
                              > blades which do not wear out fast like the paper sanding sheets.
                              > These have carbide grit bonded right to a metal blade of varying shape
                              > and sizes round, half moon, pointy, spade etc. I bought an off name
                              > clone of the $300 advertised on TV model from Northern Tool and it
                              > seems good enough for my temp use at less than a third the advertised
                              > price. I have used it a lot so far over a 3 month period.
                              >
                              > Andrew
                              >
                              > --- On Fri, 7/1/11, Gerald <china.lug@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > From: Gerald <china.lug@...>
                              > Subject: [junkrig] Sanders
                              > To: junkrig@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Friday, July 1, 2011, 12:42 AM
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > While Ivory Gull is out of the water we're going to get her woodwork -
                              > mercifully not too much - rubbed down and oiled. I have a small detail
                              > sander which will be able to get into those hard to manage corners and
                              > do the little stuff and so on but does anyone have a view as to the
                              > best type of sander for getting rid of thick, old varnish on larger
                              > areas? There's hand rails and ??toe rails?? - wooden strips fastened
                              > fore to aft along the bottom of the guard rails - as well as cockpit
                              > seats and the pilot house bulkhead with windows and doors. I just took
                              > a look at the Screwfix website where there's pages of sanders and
                              > haven't got a clue where to begin.
                              >
                              > Her undersides were remarkably clean after lying in the river for nine
                              > months but there was a long, thick clump of weed on the bottom of each
                              > bilge plate where she stood on blocks while she was out and which I
                              > obviously forgot to anti-foul, and the propeller was dreadfully foul.
                              > I had suspected this when I first started her up and put her in gear,
                              > stalling the engine several times.
                              >
                              > With best wishes,
                              >
                              > Gerry.
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • gulfnhotsand
                              Heat up a little area. You ll know immediately if it s epoxy or varnish. MD!
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jul 3 10:41 AM
                                Heat up a little area. You'll know immediately if it's epoxy or varnish. "MD!"

                                --- In junkrig@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <lonegull2@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > I'd check with David Tyler Gerry - It looks like epoxy to me rather than varnish.
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