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Re: json date format 2006-12-03T13:56:21

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  • Jon Meyer
    Milliseconds don t seem that critical, but what about generating UTC and appending a Z ? i.e. return + x.getFullYearUTC() + - + f(x.getMonthUTC() + 1)
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 4, 2006
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      Milliseconds don't seem that critical, but what about generating UTC
      and appending a "Z"? i.e.

      return '"' + x.getFullYearUTC() + '-' +
      f(x.getMonthUTC() + 1) + '-' +
      f(x.getDateUTC()) + 'T' +
      f(x.getHoursUTC()) + ':' +
      f(x.getMinutesUTC()) + ':' +
      "Z"

      How would the server know what the time means otherwise?

      Cheers

      Jon
    • Kevin Prichard
      ... Keep in mind that the Javascript date class/objects have methods for setting and getting time in milliseconds (and new Date() constructors can also
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 4, 2006
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        On 12/4/06, Jon Meyer <jonmeyer@...> wrote:
        > Milliseconds don't seem that critical

        Keep in mind that the Javascript date class/objects have methods for setting
        and getting time in milliseconds (and 'new Date()' constructors can also
        assigns milliseconds.) Excluding milliseconds might be, for some
        applications, the equivalent of truncating floats to ints.

        On 12/4/06, Jon Meyer <jonmeyer@...> wrote:
        >
        > Milliseconds don't seem that critical, but what about generating UTC
        > and appending a "Z"? i.e.
        >
        > return '"' + x.getFullYearUTC() + '-' +
        > f(x.getMonthUTC() + 1) + '-' +
        > f(x.getDateUTC()) + 'T' +
        > f(x.getHoursUTC()) + ':' +
        > f(x.getMinutesUTC()) + ':' +
        > "Z"
        >
        > How would the server know what the time means otherwise?
        >
        > Cheers
        >
        > Jon
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Peter Michaux
        ... This is what I was thinking. Milliseconds could be important at times and seems unfortunate to throw them out if there is no reason. Peter
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 4, 2006
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          On 12/4/06, Kevin Prichard <kprichard@...> wrote:
          >
          > On 12/4/06, Jon Meyer <jonmeyer@...> wrote:
          > > Milliseconds don't seem that critical
          >
          > Keep in mind that the Javascript date class/objects have methods for setting
          > and getting time in milliseconds (and 'new Date()' constructors can also
          > assigns milliseconds.) Excluding milliseconds might be, for some
          > applications, the equivalent of truncating floats to ints.
          >

          This is what I was thinking. Milliseconds could be important at times
          and seems unfortunate to throw them out if there is no reason.

          Peter
        • Gaetano Giunta
          afaik, jsonrpc uses a variant of ISO without millliseconds. also, for most databases, the standard date and time fields omit milliseconds (a timestamp value is
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 5, 2006
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            afaik, jsonrpc uses a variant of ISO without millliseconds.
            also, for most databases, the standard date and time fields omit milliseconds (a timestamp value is used for that)


            -----Original Message-----
            From: json@yahoogroups.com [mailto:json@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Peter Michaux
            Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:38 PM
            To: json@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [json] json date format 2006-12-03T13:56:21


            Hi Martin,

            On 12/3/06, Martin Cooper <mfncooper@...> wrote:
            >
            > On 12/3/06, Peter Michaux <petermichaux@...> wrote:

            > >
            > > A date object is converted to the following format
            > >
            > > 2006-12-03T13:56:21
            > >
            > > Is this an international standard time representation?
            >
            > Yep. It's defined by ISO 8601. There's a summary of that here:
            >
            > http://www.iso.org/iso/en/prods-services/popstds/datesandtime.html

            Thanks for the link

            > I don't think it has a provision for milliseconds, but I could be wrong.

            It looks like it does. From that link

            The standard has provisions for:
            (1) the omission of components representing smaller units
            (seconds, minutes), where such precision is not needed,
            (2) the addition of a decimal fraction to the smallest time unit
            where higher precision is needed.

            Perhaps the Json code could be changed to

            return '"' + x.getFullYear() + '-' +
            f(x.getMonth() + 1) + '-' +
            f(x.getDate()) + 'T' +
            f(x.getHours()) + ':' +
            f(x.getMinutes()) + ':' +
            f(x.getSeconds()) + '.' +
            f(x.getMilliseconds()) + '"';

            There could be other reasons for excluding the milliseconds. Perhaps
            some of the systems with which json is intended to facilitate data
            transmission cannot handle milliseconds?

            Thanks,
            Peter




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Peter Michaux
            ... Douglas, is there a particular reason for not including milliseconds in json.js? Thanks, Peter -- Fork JavaScript: http://forkjavascript.org
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 6, 2007
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              On 12/4/06, Peter Michaux <petermichaux@...> wrote:
              >
              > This is what I was thinking. Milliseconds could be important at times
              > and seems unfortunate to throw them out if there is no reason.

              Douglas, is there a particular reason for not including milliseconds in json.js?

              Thanks,
              Peter
              --
              Fork JavaScript: http://forkjavascript.org
            • Douglas Crockford
              ... in json.js? You have the source, you can put them in any time you want to. But first, let me ask you a question: How confident that your system s clock has
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 6, 2007
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                > Douglas, is there a particular reason for not including milliseconds
                in json.js?

                You have the source, you can put them in any time you want to. But
                first, let me ask you a question: How confident that your system's
                clock has millisecond accuracy? And that the latency of the OS +
                Browser + JavaScript will not cause significant drift by the time it
                is delivered to your application? How meaningful will the milliseconds
                be when you put them on the wire and send them to your server, whose
                clock is not in sync with yours? Milliseconds are a waste of time.

                There are applications, such as video editing, where subsecond
                accuracy is important. If you have such an application, then you would
                want to tack on frames or fractional seconds. If you don't really need
                it, then it is better to not deceive yourself with false precision.
              • Peter Michaux
                ... I m sorry for bothering you, sir. Thank you for your answer. I ll go back to my corner now. Peter
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 6, 2007
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                  On 1/6/07, Douglas Crockford <douglas@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > Douglas, is there a particular reason for not including milliseconds
                  > in json.js?
                  >
                  > You have the source, you can put them in any time you want to. But
                  > first, let me ask you a question: How confident that your system's
                  > clock has millisecond accuracy? And that the latency of the OS +
                  > Browser + JavaScript will not cause significant drift by the time it
                  > is delivered to your application? How meaningful will the milliseconds
                  > be when you put them on the wire and send them to your server, whose
                  > clock is not in sync with yours? Milliseconds are a waste of time.

                  I'm sorry for bothering you, sir. Thank you for your answer. I'll go
                  back to my corner now.

                  Peter
                • Peter Michaux
                  ... A date object is not necessarily constructed with no arguments sent to the Date constructor. It could very well be that in some applications the
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 10, 2007
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                    On 1/6/07, Douglas Crockford <douglas@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Douglas, is there a particular reason for not including milliseconds
                    > in json.js?
                    >
                    > You have the source, you can put them in any time you want to. But
                    > first, let me ask you a question: How confident that your system's
                    > clock has millisecond accuracy? And that the latency of the OS +
                    > Browser + JavaScript will not cause significant drift by the time it
                    > is delivered to your application? How meaningful will the milliseconds
                    > be when you put them on the wire and send them to your server, whose
                    > clock is not in sync with yours? Milliseconds are a waste of time.

                    A date object is not necessarily constructed with no arguments sent to
                    the Date constructor. It could very well be that in some applications
                    the construction of the Date object could use date data from a user
                    input which has very accurate and critical milliseconds information
                    from another very accurate system.

                    Peter
                  • geoffreyk00
                    ... milliseconds ... But ... system s ... time it ... milliseconds ... whose ... time. ... sent to ... applications ... The date object may be historical data
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 11, 2007
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                      --- In json@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Michaux" <petermichaux@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > On 1/6/07, Douglas Crockford <douglas@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > > Douglas, is there a particular reason for not including
                      milliseconds
                      > > in json.js?
                      > >
                      > > You have the source, you can put them in any time you want to.
                      But
                      > > first, let me ask you a question: How confident that your
                      system's
                      > > clock has millisecond accuracy? And that the latency of the OS +
                      > > Browser + JavaScript will not cause significant drift by the
                      time it
                      > > is delivered to your application? How meaningful will the
                      milliseconds
                      > > be when you put them on the wire and send them to your server,
                      whose
                      > > clock is not in sync with yours? Milliseconds are a waste of
                      time.
                      >
                      > A date object is not necessarily constructed with no arguments
                      sent to
                      > the Date constructor. It could very well be that in some
                      applications
                      > the construction of the Date object could use date data from a user
                      > input which has very accurate and critical milliseconds information
                      > from another very accurate system.
                      >
                      > Peter
                      >

                      The date object may be historical data that truly is millisecond-
                      accurate. The object does not have to be constructed when the
                      dataset is created or by the server that is delivering the dataset.
                      I more likely will have been created long before, with many date
                      objects that do need this level of accuracy.

                      I can see no reason to not to include milliseconds, and many reasons
                      to keep them.
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