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Re: [json] json date format 2006-12-03T13:56:21

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  • Peter Michaux
    Hi Martin, ... Thanks for the link ... It looks like it does. From that link The standard has provisions for: (1) the omission of components representing
    Message 1 of 12 , Dec 3, 2006
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      Hi Martin,

      On 12/3/06, Martin Cooper <mfncooper@...> wrote:
      >
      > On 12/3/06, Peter Michaux <petermichaux@...> wrote:

      > >
      > > A date object is converted to the following format
      > >
      > > 2006-12-03T13:56:21
      > >
      > > Is this an international standard time representation?
      >
      > Yep. It's defined by ISO 8601. There's a summary of that here:
      >
      > http://www.iso.org/iso/en/prods-services/popstds/datesandtime.html

      Thanks for the link

      > I don't think it has a provision for milliseconds, but I could be wrong.

      It looks like it does. From that link

      The standard has provisions for:
      (1) the omission of components representing smaller units
      (seconds, minutes), where such precision is not needed,
      (2) the addition of a decimal fraction to the smallest time unit
      where higher precision is needed.

      Perhaps the Json code could be changed to

      return '"' + x.getFullYear() + '-' +
      f(x.getMonth() + 1) + '-' +
      f(x.getDate()) + 'T' +
      f(x.getHours()) + ':' +
      f(x.getMinutes()) + ':' +
      f(x.getSeconds()) + '.' +
      f(x.getMilliseconds()) + '"';

      There could be other reasons for excluding the milliseconds. Perhaps
      some of the systems with which json is intended to facilitate data
      transmission cannot handle milliseconds?

      Thanks,
      Peter
    • Jon Meyer
      Milliseconds don t seem that critical, but what about generating UTC and appending a Z ? i.e. return + x.getFullYearUTC() + - + f(x.getMonthUTC() + 1)
      Message 2 of 12 , Dec 4, 2006
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        Milliseconds don't seem that critical, but what about generating UTC
        and appending a "Z"? i.e.

        return '"' + x.getFullYearUTC() + '-' +
        f(x.getMonthUTC() + 1) + '-' +
        f(x.getDateUTC()) + 'T' +
        f(x.getHoursUTC()) + ':' +
        f(x.getMinutesUTC()) + ':' +
        "Z"

        How would the server know what the time means otherwise?

        Cheers

        Jon
      • Kevin Prichard
        ... Keep in mind that the Javascript date class/objects have methods for setting and getting time in milliseconds (and new Date() constructors can also
        Message 3 of 12 , Dec 4, 2006
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          On 12/4/06, Jon Meyer <jonmeyer@...> wrote:
          > Milliseconds don't seem that critical

          Keep in mind that the Javascript date class/objects have methods for setting
          and getting time in milliseconds (and 'new Date()' constructors can also
          assigns milliseconds.) Excluding milliseconds might be, for some
          applications, the equivalent of truncating floats to ints.

          On 12/4/06, Jon Meyer <jonmeyer@...> wrote:
          >
          > Milliseconds don't seem that critical, but what about generating UTC
          > and appending a "Z"? i.e.
          >
          > return '"' + x.getFullYearUTC() + '-' +
          > f(x.getMonthUTC() + 1) + '-' +
          > f(x.getDateUTC()) + 'T' +
          > f(x.getHoursUTC()) + ':' +
          > f(x.getMinutesUTC()) + ':' +
          > "Z"
          >
          > How would the server know what the time means otherwise?
          >
          > Cheers
          >
          > Jon
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Peter Michaux
          ... This is what I was thinking. Milliseconds could be important at times and seems unfortunate to throw them out if there is no reason. Peter
          Message 4 of 12 , Dec 4, 2006
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            On 12/4/06, Kevin Prichard <kprichard@...> wrote:
            >
            > On 12/4/06, Jon Meyer <jonmeyer@...> wrote:
            > > Milliseconds don't seem that critical
            >
            > Keep in mind that the Javascript date class/objects have methods for setting
            > and getting time in milliseconds (and 'new Date()' constructors can also
            > assigns milliseconds.) Excluding milliseconds might be, for some
            > applications, the equivalent of truncating floats to ints.
            >

            This is what I was thinking. Milliseconds could be important at times
            and seems unfortunate to throw them out if there is no reason.

            Peter
          • Gaetano Giunta
            afaik, jsonrpc uses a variant of ISO without millliseconds. also, for most databases, the standard date and time fields omit milliseconds (a timestamp value is
            Message 5 of 12 , Dec 5, 2006
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              afaik, jsonrpc uses a variant of ISO without millliseconds.
              also, for most databases, the standard date and time fields omit milliseconds (a timestamp value is used for that)


              -----Original Message-----
              From: json@yahoogroups.com [mailto:json@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Peter Michaux
              Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:38 PM
              To: json@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [json] json date format 2006-12-03T13:56:21


              Hi Martin,

              On 12/3/06, Martin Cooper <mfncooper@...> wrote:
              >
              > On 12/3/06, Peter Michaux <petermichaux@...> wrote:

              > >
              > > A date object is converted to the following format
              > >
              > > 2006-12-03T13:56:21
              > >
              > > Is this an international standard time representation?
              >
              > Yep. It's defined by ISO 8601. There's a summary of that here:
              >
              > http://www.iso.org/iso/en/prods-services/popstds/datesandtime.html

              Thanks for the link

              > I don't think it has a provision for milliseconds, but I could be wrong.

              It looks like it does. From that link

              The standard has provisions for:
              (1) the omission of components representing smaller units
              (seconds, minutes), where such precision is not needed,
              (2) the addition of a decimal fraction to the smallest time unit
              where higher precision is needed.

              Perhaps the Json code could be changed to

              return '"' + x.getFullYear() + '-' +
              f(x.getMonth() + 1) + '-' +
              f(x.getDate()) + 'T' +
              f(x.getHours()) + ':' +
              f(x.getMinutes()) + ':' +
              f(x.getSeconds()) + '.' +
              f(x.getMilliseconds()) + '"';

              There could be other reasons for excluding the milliseconds. Perhaps
              some of the systems with which json is intended to facilitate data
              transmission cannot handle milliseconds?

              Thanks,
              Peter




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Peter Michaux
              ... Douglas, is there a particular reason for not including milliseconds in json.js? Thanks, Peter -- Fork JavaScript: http://forkjavascript.org
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 6, 2007
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                On 12/4/06, Peter Michaux <petermichaux@...> wrote:
                >
                > This is what I was thinking. Milliseconds could be important at times
                > and seems unfortunate to throw them out if there is no reason.

                Douglas, is there a particular reason for not including milliseconds in json.js?

                Thanks,
                Peter
                --
                Fork JavaScript: http://forkjavascript.org
              • Douglas Crockford
                ... in json.js? You have the source, you can put them in any time you want to. But first, let me ask you a question: How confident that your system s clock has
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 6, 2007
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                  > Douglas, is there a particular reason for not including milliseconds
                  in json.js?

                  You have the source, you can put them in any time you want to. But
                  first, let me ask you a question: How confident that your system's
                  clock has millisecond accuracy? And that the latency of the OS +
                  Browser + JavaScript will not cause significant drift by the time it
                  is delivered to your application? How meaningful will the milliseconds
                  be when you put them on the wire and send them to your server, whose
                  clock is not in sync with yours? Milliseconds are a waste of time.

                  There are applications, such as video editing, where subsecond
                  accuracy is important. If you have such an application, then you would
                  want to tack on frames or fractional seconds. If you don't really need
                  it, then it is better to not deceive yourself with false precision.
                • Peter Michaux
                  ... I m sorry for bothering you, sir. Thank you for your answer. I ll go back to my corner now. Peter
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 6, 2007
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                    On 1/6/07, Douglas Crockford <douglas@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > Douglas, is there a particular reason for not including milliseconds
                    > in json.js?
                    >
                    > You have the source, you can put them in any time you want to. But
                    > first, let me ask you a question: How confident that your system's
                    > clock has millisecond accuracy? And that the latency of the OS +
                    > Browser + JavaScript will not cause significant drift by the time it
                    > is delivered to your application? How meaningful will the milliseconds
                    > be when you put them on the wire and send them to your server, whose
                    > clock is not in sync with yours? Milliseconds are a waste of time.

                    I'm sorry for bothering you, sir. Thank you for your answer. I'll go
                    back to my corner now.

                    Peter
                  • Peter Michaux
                    ... A date object is not necessarily constructed with no arguments sent to the Date constructor. It could very well be that in some applications the
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 10, 2007
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                      On 1/6/07, Douglas Crockford <douglas@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Douglas, is there a particular reason for not including milliseconds
                      > in json.js?
                      >
                      > You have the source, you can put them in any time you want to. But
                      > first, let me ask you a question: How confident that your system's
                      > clock has millisecond accuracy? And that the latency of the OS +
                      > Browser + JavaScript will not cause significant drift by the time it
                      > is delivered to your application? How meaningful will the milliseconds
                      > be when you put them on the wire and send them to your server, whose
                      > clock is not in sync with yours? Milliseconds are a waste of time.

                      A date object is not necessarily constructed with no arguments sent to
                      the Date constructor. It could very well be that in some applications
                      the construction of the Date object could use date data from a user
                      input which has very accurate and critical milliseconds information
                      from another very accurate system.

                      Peter
                    • geoffreyk00
                      ... milliseconds ... But ... system s ... time it ... milliseconds ... whose ... time. ... sent to ... applications ... The date object may be historical data
                      Message 10 of 12 , Jan 11, 2007
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                        --- In json@yahoogroups.com, "Peter Michaux" <petermichaux@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > On 1/6/07, Douglas Crockford <douglas@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > > Douglas, is there a particular reason for not including
                        milliseconds
                        > > in json.js?
                        > >
                        > > You have the source, you can put them in any time you want to.
                        But
                        > > first, let me ask you a question: How confident that your
                        system's
                        > > clock has millisecond accuracy? And that the latency of the OS +
                        > > Browser + JavaScript will not cause significant drift by the
                        time it
                        > > is delivered to your application? How meaningful will the
                        milliseconds
                        > > be when you put them on the wire and send them to your server,
                        whose
                        > > clock is not in sync with yours? Milliseconds are a waste of
                        time.
                        >
                        > A date object is not necessarily constructed with no arguments
                        sent to
                        > the Date constructor. It could very well be that in some
                        applications
                        > the construction of the Date object could use date data from a user
                        > input which has very accurate and critical milliseconds information
                        > from another very accurate system.
                        >
                        > Peter
                        >

                        The date object may be historical data that truly is millisecond-
                        accurate. The object does not have to be constructed when the
                        dataset is created or by the server that is delivering the dataset.
                        I more likely will have been created long before, with many date
                        objects that do need this level of accuracy.

                        I can see no reason to not to include milliseconds, and many reasons
                        to keep them.
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