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  • Douglas Crockford
    Jesse James Garrett gave an old idea, dynamic update as an alternative to page replacement in web applications, a new name: Ajax (Asynchronous JavaScript +
    Message 1 of 15 , Feb 16, 2006
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      Jesse James Garrett gave an old idea, dynamic update as an alternative
      to page replacement in web applications, a new name: Ajax
      (Asynchronous JavaScript + XML). With this new moniker, interactive
      web application development has become the hottest thing since canned
      beer. But the hipsters aren't using XML, they are using JSON. These
      new apps are about data, not documents, so JSON just makes more sense.
      They still call it Ajax, but there is still that x hanging there that
      just doesn't fit.

      So my suggestion is to drop the x. That yields Aja.

      King Aja was the grandfather of Rama. His consort was the heavenly
      nymph Indumati.

      Aja was also a top rated Steely Dan album.
    • Martin Cooper
      ... Except that now you have to explain that it s AJAX (an acronym) versus Aja (not an acronym). And if it was AJA, it would be Asynchronous JavaScript And ,
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 16, 2006
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        On 2/16/06, Douglas Crockford <douglas@...> wrote:
        >
        > Jesse James Garrett gave an old idea, dynamic update as an alternative
        > to page replacement in web applications, a new name: Ajax
        > (Asynchronous JavaScript + XML). With this new moniker, interactive
        > web application development has become the hottest thing since canned
        > beer. But the hipsters aren't using XML, they are using JSON. These
        > new apps are about data, not documents, so JSON just makes more sense.
        > They still call it Ajax, but there is still that x hanging there that
        > just doesn't fit.
        >
        > So my suggestion is to drop the x. That yields Aja.


        Except that now you have to explain that it's AJAX (an acronym) versus Aja
        (not an acronym). And if it was AJA, it would be "Asynchronous JavaScript
        And", which isn't too cool. ;-)

        It could also be AJAJ, for "Asynchronous JavaScript And JSON", which has a
        clearer parallel with AJAX.

        Or, it could be Odysseus, who competed with Ajax for Achilles' armour, and
        beat him. Ajax then went on to commit suicide. Odysseus rules! ;-)

        King Aja was the grandfather of Rama. His consort was the heavenly
        > nymph Indumati.
        >
        > Aja was also a top rated Steely Dan album.


        And my favourite album of theirs, too!

        --
        Martin Cooper


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      • MPCM
        I m still saying javascript and use a broader term of interactive. The ajax moniker bothers me too much, I m glad everyone else knows about these
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 16, 2006
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          I'm still saying javascript and use a broader term of interactive. The ajax
          moniker bothers me too much, I'm glad everyone else knows about these
          tools/techniques now, but most of them still don't get how it works or
          where/when to use it. I still like remote scripting the best, but it's been
          a while.

          --
          Matt


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • peter seliger
          hi all, ... how about DHTTP as analogon to DHTML - Dynamic HTTP since we do script the clients http(request)-interface. if the interchange-format will be
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 17, 2006
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            hi all,

            here are my two cents:

            > So my suggestion is to drop the x. That yields Aja.

            how about DHTTP as analogon to DHTML - "Dynamic HTTP"
            since we do script the clients http(request)-interface.
            if the interchange-format will be JSON the whole thing
            becomes JSON-DHTTP as analogon to the already existing
            JSON-RPC [http://jsolait.net/examples/jsonrpc/index.xhtml%5d.

            so long - peterS. - pseliger@...
          • usidoesit
            ... Douglas, My thought is to rename AJAX to JSON. The thinking went as follows(not an inverted pyramid, but I *will* get to the name issue): Goal: personal
            Message 5 of 15 , Feb 17, 2006
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              --- In json@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas Crockford" <douglas@...> wrote:
              >
              > So my suggestion is to drop the x. That yields Aja.
              >
              > King Aja was the grandfather of Rama. His consort was the heavenly
              > nymph Indumati.
              >
              > Aja was also a top rated Steely Dan album.
              >

              :-) I got tired of that album, yeah even with that drum solo...

              Douglas,

              My thought is to rename AJAX to JSON.

              The thinking went as follows(not an inverted pyramid, but I *will* get
              to the name issue):

              Goal: personal encryption page for passing around sensitive info in
              emails using simple shared secret passphrases.

              1) Leverage Java crypto libs, very nice.
              2) Serve in applet? NO. Applets still completely suck and have very
              little consistent support even in enterprise-level JBuilder.
              3) Flash applet. Huh, forget it. NO significant support for encryption.
              4) JavaWebStart. NO. Why the F would I want to.
              4.5) Besides sucky platforms, these applet solutions are anti-web,
              they leverage nothing. AJAX dev leverages easy layout, CSS, open,
              markup, agile, team, web.
              5) Ajax page going over browser-based SSL encrytion to java
              crypto-servlet. YES. WebLogic demo version easily does SSL socket.
              6) I won't use XML because of its bloat and brittleness,
              inappropriateness for most tasks.
              7) Use JSON, but the name?
              8) AJAJSON? nah
              9) AJSON? nah
              10) AJASON...uh, no. I don't want anything named "Jason"
              11) Just say AJAX, the "X" means anything, like a variable.

              This way you don't have to explain what you mean. AJAX is the
              accepted marketplace terminology. Stuff that goes on resumes.

              Oh no, don't tell me you like JASON?

              Well, how different is that from JSON? Isn't it kind of superfluous
              anyway, the Asynchronous thing, I mean if your doing JS and getting
              data over either XML or JSON it's going to be "asynchronous" compared
              to round-tripping?

              Best Regards,
              -Rich

              --

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/heuristic/

              It's not Gonzo Marketing if you don't even know the names of the
              people you're talking to. Free books and newsletters. Stuck at 43
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            • Stefan Gössner
              I agree with Rich. The question XML relates to Ajax as JSON relates to ??? doesn t help much. More and more people gradually realize, that JSON is much more
              Message 6 of 15 , Feb 17, 2006
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                I agree with Rich. The question

                XML relates to Ajax as JSON relates to ???

                doesn't help much. More and more people gradually realize, that JSON
                is much more compatible to Ajax than XML (as the first 3 letters of
                'Ajax' suggest). So it seems to be much wiser to let JSON being
                closely associated with that incredible successful 'marketing term'.
                As time goes by people will forget, what that 'X' stands for. Compare
                it with 'Javascript' itself. Hardly anyone today thinks, that
                'Javascript' has something to do with 'Java' .. or am I wrong?

                We Germans mainly associate 'Ajax' with a cleaning agent, and Dutch
                people love their soccer club 'Ajax'.
                ---
                Stefan
              • Martin Cooper
                ... Unfortunately, you re wrong. ;-( A lot of people - even some JavaScript developers - still think the two are very similar. (Why else would people create
                Message 7 of 15 , Feb 17, 2006
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                  On 2/17/06, Stefan Gössner <stefan@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I agree with Rich. The question
                  >
                  > XML relates to Ajax as JSON relates to ???
                  >
                  > doesn't help much. More and more people gradually realize, that JSON
                  > is much more compatible to Ajax than XML (as the first 3 letters of
                  > 'Ajax' suggest). So it seems to be much wiser to let JSON being
                  > closely associated with that incredible successful 'marketing term'.
                  > As time goes by people will forget, what that 'X' stands for. Compare
                  > it with 'Javascript' itself. Hardly anyone today thinks, that
                  > 'Javascript' has something to do with 'Java' .. or am I wrong?


                  Unfortunately, you're wrong. ;-( A lot of people - even some JavaScript
                  developers - still think the two are very similar. (Why else would people
                  create JavaScript toolkits that are designed to be "Swing-like", supposedly
                  to make them familiar for Java developers?)

                  We Germans mainly associate 'Ajax' with a cleaning agent, and Dutch
                  > people love their soccer club 'Ajax'.


                  Yeah, the UK has the Ajax cleaner too. ;-) And the ASF has a server named
                  'ajax' that's physically located in the Netherlands, so nobody knows how the
                  heck to pronounce it!

                  --
                  Martin Cooper


                  ---
                  > Stefan
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                • Jason Levitt
                  ... You might end up explaining who Steely Dan is as well.... :) I was trying to think of an acronym based on the (even more obscure) jazz standard tune by
                  Message 8 of 15 , Feb 17, 2006
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                    Douglas Crockford wrote:
                    > Aja was also a top rated Steely Dan album.

                    You might end up explaining who Steely Dan is as well.... :)

                    I was trying to think of an acronym based on the (even more obscure)
                    jazz standard tune by Duke Jordan, "JORDU".

                    So, maybe, JORDU = JsOn, Relish, Dynamic Updates

                    Anyone have a better word for the "R"?

                    Or, maybe, JOWDU = JsOn With Dynamic Updates
                    I think jowdu might be a French word but I don't have a good enough
                    dictionary to prove it.

                    --
                    Jason Levitt | Evangelista Técnico | Yahoo Developer Network
                    email: jlevitt@... http://developer.yahoo.net
                  • Jason Levitt
                    JADU -- Json And Dynamic Updating ..... Does jadu mean anything? ... -- Jason Levitt | Evangelista Técnico | Yahoo Developer Network email:
                    Message 9 of 15 , Feb 17, 2006
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                      "JADU" -- Json And Dynamic Updating .....

                      Does jadu mean anything?

                      Jason Levitt wrote:
                      > Douglas Crockford wrote:
                      > > Aja was also a top rated Steely Dan album.
                      >
                      > You might end up explaining who Steely Dan is as well.... :)
                      >
                      > I was trying to think of an acronym based on the (even more obscure)
                      > jazz standard tune by Duke Jordan, "JORDU".
                      >
                      > So, maybe, JORDU = JsOn, Relish, Dynamic Updates
                      >
                      > Anyone have a better word for the "R"?
                      >
                      > Or, maybe, JOWDU = JsOn With Dynamic Updates
                      > I think jowdu might be a French word but I don't have a good enough
                      > dictionary to prove it.
                      >
                      > --
                      > Jason Levitt | Evangelista Técnico | Yahoo Developer Network
                      > email: jlevitt@... http://developer.yahoo.net
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                      Jason Levitt | Evangelista Técnico | Yahoo Developer Network
                      email: jlevitt@... http://developer.yahoo.net
                    • Atif Aziz
                      Ah, I can give my 1 cent here...JADU means magic in Urdu and in Hindi. Really. :) Many people may not be know about Urdu (principally spoken in Pakistan), but
                      Message 10 of 15 , Feb 18, 2006
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                        Ah, I can give my 1 cent here...JADU means magic in Urdu and in Hindi. Really. :)

                        Many people may not be know about Urdu (principally spoken in Pakistan), but consider this...the sheer sum of Hindi and Urdu speakers across India and Pakistan would, I say, make JADU a pretty familiar word. :)

                        As for Ajax, I think one oughtn't to forget that beyond starting out as an acronym, its association with a cleaning agent had the subtle hint of taking a *clean new look* at how we build and approach web applications (revising some assumptions). The latter still applies, so whether JSON or XML stand out in the acronym isn't going to be a dear argument for anything except put some itches to rest. I like the comparison between Java and JavaScript. Everyone eventually realized that there was no correlation between the two except roots in the C syntax. In other words, it became clear very soon that it was merely a marketing stunt to tie the names together.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: json@yahoogroups.com [mailto:json@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jason Levitt
                        Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2006 1:32 AM
                        To: json@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [json] Now! XML Free!


                        "JADU" -- Json And Dynamic Updating .....

                        Does jadu mean anything?

                        Jason Levitt wrote:
                        > Douglas Crockford wrote:
                        > > Aja was also a top rated Steely Dan album.
                        >
                        > You might end up explaining who Steely Dan is as well.... :)
                        >
                        > I was trying to think of an acronym based on the (even more obscure)
                        > jazz standard tune by Duke Jordan, "JORDU".
                        >
                        > So, maybe, JORDU = JsOn, Relish, Dynamic Updates
                        >
                        > Anyone have a better word for the "R"?
                        >
                        > Or, maybe, JOWDU = JsOn With Dynamic Updates
                        > I think jowdu might be a French word but I don't have a good enough
                        > dictionary to prove it.
                        >
                        > --
                        > Jason Levitt | Evangelista Técnico | Yahoo Developer Network
                        > email: jlevitt@... http://developer.yahoo.net
                        >
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                        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Programming+languages&w1=Programming+languages&w2=Format&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&w5=Large+format&w6=Cover+letter+formats&c=6&s=129&.sig=0PEyFkQsBX5AadGd5-Aakg>
                        > Format
                        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Format&w1=Programming+languages&w2=Format&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&w5=Large+format&w6=Cover+letter+formats&c=6&s=129&.sig=HnddU-GcXJv30Gk_COizAQ>
                        > Computer security
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                        > <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Cover+letter+formats&w1=Programming+languages&w2=Format&w3=Computer+security&w4=Computer+training&w5=Large+format&w6=Cover+letter+formats&c=6&s=129&.sig=jaZDO7F31mFCNn4e-f1lVQ>
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                        --
                        Jason Levitt | Evangelista Técnico | Yahoo Developer Network
                        email: jlevitt@... http://developer.yahoo.net



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                      • Philip Tellis
                        ... R - Remote. -- ... A booming voice says, Wrong, cretin! , and you notice that you have turned into a pile of dust.
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 18, 2006
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                          Sometime on Feb 17, JL cobbled together some glyphs to say:

                          > So, maybe, JORDU = JsOn, Relish, Dynamic Updates
                          >
                          > Anyone have a better word for the "R"?

                          R - Remote.

                          --
                          ... A booming voice says, "Wrong, cretin!", and you notice that you
                          have turned into a pile of dust.
                        • Philip Tellis
                          ... Depending on how you pronounce it, it could be a broom (jhadu in hindi) or slang for a fat person (jadu in marathi) -- Solutions are obvious if one only
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 18, 2006
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                            Sometime on Feb 17, JL cobbled together some glyphs to say:

                            > "JADU" -- Json And Dynamic Updating .....
                            >
                            > Does jadu mean anything?

                            Depending on how you pronounce it, it could be a broom (jhadu in hindi)
                            or slang for a fat person (jadu in marathi)

                            --
                            Solutions are obvious if one only has the optical power to observe them
                            over the horizon.
                            -- K.A. Arsdall
                          • Stefan Gössner
                            What about AWOX = Ajax WithOut XML AIOX = Ajax Independent of XML
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 19, 2006
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                              What about

                              AWOX = Ajax WithOut XML
                              AIOX = Ajax Independent of XML
                            • Greg Macdonald
                              Take advantage of the branding. AJAX Light - the simpler, faster AJAX Greg ... From: Douglas Crockford To:
                              Message 14 of 15 , Feb 19, 2006
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                                Take advantage of the branding.

                                AJAX Light - the simpler, faster AJAX

                                Greg

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: "Douglas Crockford" <douglas@...>
                                To: <json@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:43 AM
                                Subject: [json] Now! XML Free!


                                Jesse James Garrett gave an old idea, dynamic update as an alternative
                                to page replacement in web applications, a new name: Ajax
                                (Asynchronous JavaScript + XML). With this new moniker, interactive
                                web application development has become the hottest thing since canned
                                beer. But the hipsters aren't using XML, they are using JSON. These
                                new apps are about data, not documents, so JSON just makes more sense.
                                They still call it Ajax, but there is still that x hanging there that
                                just doesn't fit.

                                So my suggestion is to drop the x. That yields Aja.

                                King Aja was the grandfather of Rama. His consort was the heavenly
                                nymph Indumati.

                                Aja was also a top rated Steely Dan album.








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                              • usidoesit
                                ... Greg, Good idea, what can we take advantage of in the AJAX juggernaught? That is the right connection, a light one capable of being severed when AJAX
                                Message 15 of 15 , Feb 21, 2006
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                                  --- In json@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Macdonald" <greg@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Take advantage of the branding.
                                  >
                                  > AJAX Light - the simpler, faster AJAX
                                  >
                                  > Greg
                                  >

                                  Greg,

                                  Good idea, what can we take advantage of in the AJAX juggernaught?

                                  That is the right connection, a light one capable of being severed
                                  when AJAX sinks.

                                  At the risk of repeating, how about JSON?

                                  Rolls off the tongue: Jason.

                                  Think of the branding there though. Friday the 13th...Jason Lives.

                                  -R

                                  --

                                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/heuristic/

                                  44 members now! learning to do the Gonzo...saying peoples names...
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