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Re: Internet Draft

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  • Douglas Crockford
    ... are not ... In JavaScript, leading zero means octal. If JSON allowed leading zeros that do not indicate octal, then it would not be a subset of JavaScript.
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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      > * In section 2.5 on numbers, there is the statement "Leading zeros
      are not
      > allowed as that could lead to confusion". I don't understand why leading
      > zeros would be confusing, expecially when octal and hex forms are not
      > supported.

      In JavaScript, leading zero means octal. If JSON allowed leading zeros
      that do not indicate octal, then it would not be a subset of
      JavaScript. JSON seeks to be minimal, portable, and a subset of
      JavaScript.

      Leading zeros are subject to confusion. The public schools tell us
      they indicate non-significance in decimal. The C languages tell us
      they indicate octal. Since they ultimately carry no information, it is
      best to do away with them.
    • Douglas Crockford
      ... How would that help?
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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        > One suggestion:
        >
        > It would help, if Generators and Parsers across implementations would
        > use the same names for doing the same thing. A name recommendation,
        > would go, in the respective section 3 or 4.
        >
        > At the moment there is quite a number of names for the same thing!
        > "decode", "encode", "stringify", "eval", "load" and "dump" to name
        > just a few.
        >
        > It would make sense to have one to naming conventions

        How would that help?
      • Josh Sled
        ... [Sorry to reply to this rather than the original, but I never received it. :/] In Section 5 you assert that the MIME media type is text/json ... is that
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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          On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 15:03 -0800, Martin Cooper wrote:
          > On 1/18/06, Douglas Crockford <douglas@...> wrote:
          > >
          > > I have submitted a draft to IETF. You can see it here:
          > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jsonorg-json-00.txt

          [Sorry to reply to this rather than the original, but I never received
          it. :/]

          In Section 5 you assert that the MIME media type is "text/json" ... is
          that true? I can't find evidence of this.

          --
          ...jsled
          http://asynchronous.org/ - `a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo ${a}@${b}`
        • Douglas Crockford
          ... My intention is to have IANA bless text/json . They first want to see an IETF RFC. The first step in creating an RFC is the submission of an Internet
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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            > In Section 5 you assert that the MIME media type is "text/json" ... is
            > that true? I can't find evidence of this.

            My intention is to have IANA bless "text/json". They first want to see
            an IETF RFC. The first step in creating an RFC is the submission of an
            Internet Draft to IETF. That is where we are now.
          • Martin Cooper
            ... IMHO, this would be a better - and more honest - explanation than just saying it s confusing. -- Martin Cooper Leading zeros are subject to confusion. The
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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              On 1/19/06, Douglas Crockford <douglas@...> wrote:
              >
              > > * In section 2.5 on numbers, there is the statement "Leading zeros
              > are not
              > > allowed as that could lead to confusion". I don't understand why leading
              > > zeros would be confusing, expecially when octal and hex forms are not
              > > supported.
              >
              > In JavaScript, leading zero means octal. If JSON allowed leading zeros
              > that do not indicate octal, then it would not be a subset of
              > JavaScript. JSON seeks to be minimal, portable, and a subset of
              > JavaScript.


              IMHO, this would be a better - and more honest - explanation than just
              saying it's confusing.

              --
              Martin Cooper


              Leading zeros are subject to confusion. The public schools tell us
              > they indicate non-significance in decimal. The C languages tell us
              > they indicate octal. Since they ultimately carry no information, it is
              > best to do away with them.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Robert Cerny
              ... It would help developers, in particular those, who use JSON in many languages. More likley that the first guess is right, less time searching docs. Even on
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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                --- In json@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas Crockford" <douglas@c...> wrote:

                > > It would help, if Generators and Parsers across implementations would
                > > use the same names for doing the same thing. A name recommendation,
                > > would go, in the respective section 3 or 4.
                > >
                >
                > How would that help?
                >
                It would help developers, in particular those, who use JSON in many
                languages. More likley that the first guess is right, less time
                searching docs. Even on completion you got better chances. So to cut
                it short: More fun working. And if that isn't something worth aspiring to.
              • Andrew Durdin
                ... A few comments: 1. Is there any reason you re specifying characters in two different styles? For example, in 2.0 you ve got: = %x7B
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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                  On 1/19/06, Douglas Crockford <douglas@...> wrote:
                  > I have submitted a draft to IETF. You can see it here:
                  > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jsonorg-json-00.txt

                  A few comments:

                  1. Is there any reason you're specifying characters in two different
                  styles? For example, in 2.0 you've got:

                  <begin-object> = %x7B ; { left brace

                  Then in 2.1, you have:

                  space U+0020 Space

                  Why the difference? If the declarations as per 2.1 form part of a
                  grammar in the syntax expected by some common parser generator, then
                  why isn't whitespace declared in the same form?


                  2. Why the esoteric name "reverse virgule" (section 2.6 and
                  throughout) ? The normative name in Unicode 4 for U+005C is "reverse
                  solidus", with "backslash" as an alias. I recommend using the term
                  "backslash" throughout (as it will be more familiar to readers) and
                  mentioning the name "reverse solidus" in section 2.6 where you give
                  the code point (and similarly giving the normative names for other
                  characters where you give the code point -- for example U+007B is
                  "left curly bracket", U+0009 is "character tabulation").


                  3. In section 6, you use the vague term "safe". I think a better
                  description would be useful, something along the lines of "A text
                  containing only JSON tokens is safe to eval because the JSON subset of
                  JavaScript does not contain any assignments, function calls, or other
                  executable statements."


                  Cheers,

                  Andrew
                • Douglas Crockford
                  Thank you everyone on your comments on the Internet Draft. I am preparing a revision. I have encorporated most of your suggestions. The current state can be
                  Message 8 of 17 , Feb 2, 2006
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                    Thank you everyone on your comments on the Internet Draft. I am
                    preparing a revision. I have encorporated most of your suggestions.
                    The current state can be found at
                    http://www.json.org/draft-crockford-jsonorg-json-01.txt
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