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Re: Internet Draft

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  • Douglas Crockford
    ... (a colon) ... that the ... would be ... The significance of spaces is YAML s problem. They need to develop a transition plan away from it. JSON s position
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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      > I suggest adding to section 4 Generators:
      >
      > A JSON generator SHOULD output a space after a <name-separator>
      (a colon)
      > or a <value-separator> (a comma).
      >
      > From what you've said about YAML compatibility issues, I take it
      that the
      > output of a JSON generator which follows the above recommendation
      would be
      > valid YAML input.

      The significance of spaces is YAML's problem. They need to develop a
      transition plan away from it. JSON's position on space after comma is
      an implied MAY, and I think it can stay that way.
    • Douglas Crockford
      ... are not ... In JavaScript, leading zero means octal. If JSON allowed leading zeros that do not indicate octal, then it would not be a subset of JavaScript.
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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        > * In section 2.5 on numbers, there is the statement "Leading zeros
        are not
        > allowed as that could lead to confusion". I don't understand why leading
        > zeros would be confusing, expecially when octal and hex forms are not
        > supported.

        In JavaScript, leading zero means octal. If JSON allowed leading zeros
        that do not indicate octal, then it would not be a subset of
        JavaScript. JSON seeks to be minimal, portable, and a subset of
        JavaScript.

        Leading zeros are subject to confusion. The public schools tell us
        they indicate non-significance in decimal. The C languages tell us
        they indicate octal. Since they ultimately carry no information, it is
        best to do away with them.
      • Douglas Crockford
        ... How would that help?
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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          > One suggestion:
          >
          > It would help, if Generators and Parsers across implementations would
          > use the same names for doing the same thing. A name recommendation,
          > would go, in the respective section 3 or 4.
          >
          > At the moment there is quite a number of names for the same thing!
          > "decode", "encode", "stringify", "eval", "load" and "dump" to name
          > just a few.
          >
          > It would make sense to have one to naming conventions

          How would that help?
        • Josh Sled
          ... [Sorry to reply to this rather than the original, but I never received it. :/] In Section 5 you assert that the MIME media type is text/json ... is that
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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            On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 15:03 -0800, Martin Cooper wrote:
            > On 1/18/06, Douglas Crockford <douglas@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > I have submitted a draft to IETF. You can see it here:
            > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jsonorg-json-00.txt

            [Sorry to reply to this rather than the original, but I never received
            it. :/]

            In Section 5 you assert that the MIME media type is "text/json" ... is
            that true? I can't find evidence of this.

            --
            ...jsled
            http://asynchronous.org/ - `a=jsled; b=asynchronous.org; echo ${a}@${b}`
          • Douglas Crockford
            ... My intention is to have IANA bless text/json . They first want to see an IETF RFC. The first step in creating an RFC is the submission of an Internet
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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              > In Section 5 you assert that the MIME media type is "text/json" ... is
              > that true? I can't find evidence of this.

              My intention is to have IANA bless "text/json". They first want to see
              an IETF RFC. The first step in creating an RFC is the submission of an
              Internet Draft to IETF. That is where we are now.
            • Martin Cooper
              ... IMHO, this would be a better - and more honest - explanation than just saying it s confusing. -- Martin Cooper Leading zeros are subject to confusion. The
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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                On 1/19/06, Douglas Crockford <douglas@...> wrote:
                >
                > > * In section 2.5 on numbers, there is the statement "Leading zeros
                > are not
                > > allowed as that could lead to confusion". I don't understand why leading
                > > zeros would be confusing, expecially when octal and hex forms are not
                > > supported.
                >
                > In JavaScript, leading zero means octal. If JSON allowed leading zeros
                > that do not indicate octal, then it would not be a subset of
                > JavaScript. JSON seeks to be minimal, portable, and a subset of
                > JavaScript.


                IMHO, this would be a better - and more honest - explanation than just
                saying it's confusing.

                --
                Martin Cooper


                Leading zeros are subject to confusion. The public schools tell us
                > they indicate non-significance in decimal. The C languages tell us
                > they indicate octal. Since they ultimately carry no information, it is
                > best to do away with them.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Robert Cerny
                ... It would help developers, in particular those, who use JSON in many languages. More likley that the first guess is right, less time searching docs. Even on
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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                  --- In json@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas Crockford" <douglas@c...> wrote:

                  > > It would help, if Generators and Parsers across implementations would
                  > > use the same names for doing the same thing. A name recommendation,
                  > > would go, in the respective section 3 or 4.
                  > >
                  >
                  > How would that help?
                  >
                  It would help developers, in particular those, who use JSON in many
                  languages. More likley that the first guess is right, less time
                  searching docs. Even on completion you got better chances. So to cut
                  it short: More fun working. And if that isn't something worth aspiring to.
                • Andrew Durdin
                  ... A few comments: 1. Is there any reason you re specifying characters in two different styles? For example, in 2.0 you ve got: = %x7B
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 19, 2006
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                    On 1/19/06, Douglas Crockford <douglas@...> wrote:
                    > I have submitted a draft to IETF. You can see it here:
                    > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jsonorg-json-00.txt

                    A few comments:

                    1. Is there any reason you're specifying characters in two different
                    styles? For example, in 2.0 you've got:

                    <begin-object> = %x7B ; { left brace

                    Then in 2.1, you have:

                    space U+0020 Space

                    Why the difference? If the declarations as per 2.1 form part of a
                    grammar in the syntax expected by some common parser generator, then
                    why isn't whitespace declared in the same form?


                    2. Why the esoteric name "reverse virgule" (section 2.6 and
                    throughout) ? The normative name in Unicode 4 for U+005C is "reverse
                    solidus", with "backslash" as an alias. I recommend using the term
                    "backslash" throughout (as it will be more familiar to readers) and
                    mentioning the name "reverse solidus" in section 2.6 where you give
                    the code point (and similarly giving the normative names for other
                    characters where you give the code point -- for example U+007B is
                    "left curly bracket", U+0009 is "character tabulation").


                    3. In section 6, you use the vague term "safe". I think a better
                    description would be useful, something along the lines of "A text
                    containing only JSON tokens is safe to eval because the JSON subset of
                    JavaScript does not contain any assignments, function calls, or other
                    executable statements."


                    Cheers,

                    Andrew
                  • Douglas Crockford
                    Thank you everyone on your comments on the Internet Draft. I am preparing a revision. I have encorporated most of your suggestions. The current state can be
                    Message 9 of 17 , Feb 2, 2006
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                      Thank you everyone on your comments on the Internet Draft. I am
                      preparing a revision. I have encorporated most of your suggestions.
                      The current state can be found at
                      http://www.json.org/draft-crockford-jsonorg-json-01.txt
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