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Re: [json] Java JSON

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  • John Cowan
    ... I would say that that could happen in only a few ways: 1) If someone shepherded a particular library through the JCP, a clunky and bureaucratic process
    Message 1 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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      Douglas Crockford scripsit:

      > The JSON.org page currently lists 21 packages for Java. Will the Java
      > community ever converge on one as some other language communities
      > are doing?

      I would say that that could happen in only a few ways:

      1) If someone shepherded a particular library through the JCP, a clunky and
      bureaucratic process whose future is much doubted

      2) If you as JSON BDFL pushed one of them.

      Also, google-gson is not just a plain JSON library, and jsonix is actually
      a JavaScript, not a Java library. There are probably other such errors.

      --
      John Cowan cowan@... http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
      Most languages are dramatically underdescribed, and at least one is
      dramatically overdescribed. Still other languages are simultaneously
      overdescribed and underdescribed. Welsh pertains to the third category.
      --Alan King
    • Tatu Saloranta
      On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Douglas Crockford ... Probably not to the degree that there d be just one. From the list I think just maybe half a dozen are
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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        On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Douglas Crockford
        <douglas@...> wrote:
        > The JSON.org page currently lists 21 packages for Java. Will the Java community ever converge on one as some other language communities are doing?

        Probably not to the degree that there'd be just one. From the list I
        think just maybe half a dozen are widely used for whatever that's
        worth.
        I think there is some actual convergence, especially in cases where
        new projects choose from existing libraries. In JAX-RS (Jersey,
        RESTeasy) space, for example, number of libraries that are supported
        out of box is quite low, and tends to follow similar trajectory (start
        with library that emulates xml processing, Jettison, or the reference
        implementation; move on to lib(s) that do full data binding like
        Jackson or json-lib).
        I think authors of frameworks have more time and interest in doing due
        diligence to figure out best components to use, which then limits
        candidates that offer best set of features and support. And over time
        users of frameworks seem to gravitate towards those libraries even
        when developing stand-alone system.

        One thing that irritates me is not so much number of alternatives but
        the fact that most new candidates make bold claims but seem to offer
        very little that is better or even different (in positive sense) from
        existing choices.

        -+ Tatu +-
      • Dennis Gearon
        If there was anything that bugs ME, is incomplete documentation and just read the code type of libraries. Dennis Gearon ________________________________
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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          If there was anything that bugs ME, is incomplete documentation and 'just read
          the code' type of libraries.

          Dennis Gearon





          ________________________________
          From: Tatu Saloranta <tsaloranta@...>
          To: json@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Mon, January 24, 2011 1:18:43 PM
          Subject: Re: [json] Java JSON


          On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 10:48 AM, Douglas Crockford
          <douglas@...> wrote:
          > The JSON.org page currently lists 21 packages for Java. Will the Java community
          >ever converge on one as some other language communities are doing?

          Probably not to the degree that there'd be just one. From the list I
          think just maybe half a dozen are widely used for whatever that's
          worth.
          I think there is some actual convergence, especially in cases where
          new projects choose from existing libraries. In JAX-RS (Jersey,
          RESTeasy) space, for example, number of libraries that are supported
          out of box is quite low, and tends to follow similar trajectory (start
          with library that emulates xml processing, Jettison, or the reference
          implementation; move on to lib(s) that do full data binding like
          Jackson or json-lib).
          I think authors of frameworks have more time and interest in doing due
          diligence to figure out best components to use, which then limits
          candidates that offer best set of features and support. And over time
          users of frameworks seem to gravitate towards those libraries even
          when developing stand-alone system.

          One thing that irritates me is not so much number of alternatives but
          the fact that most new candidates make bold claims but seem to offer
          very little that is better or even different (in positive sense) from
          existing choices.

          -+ Tatu +-



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John Cowan
          ... +1000 -- One Word to write them all, John Cowan One Access to find them, http://www.ccil.org/~cowan One Excel to
          Message 4 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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            Dennis Gearon scripsit:

            > If there was anything that bugs ME, is incomplete documentation and 'just read
            > the code' type of libraries.

            +1000

            --
            One Word to write them all, John Cowan <cowan@...>
            One Access to find them, http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
            One Excel to count them all,
            And thus to Windows bind them. --Mike Champion
          • Tatu Saloranta
            ... True. That also contributes to feeling of but how is this different . Maybe there are strengths, but if finding those requires reading sources, yeah,
            Message 5 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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              On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Dennis Gearon <gearond@...> wrote:
              > If there was anything that bugs ME, is incomplete documentation and 'just read
              > the code' type of libraries.

              True. That also contributes to feeling of "but how is this different".
              Maybe there are strengths, but if finding those requires reading
              sources, yeah, that's lots to ask.

              And it's also easier to accumulate documentation when projects grow;
              and having small number of leading libs helps the snowball effect.

              -+ Tatu +-
            • Dennis Gearon
              I m working on documenting my own API (JSON, JSON-RPCish), and it s a lot of work. I just keep reminding myself how I d like to read it. Dennis Gearon
              Message 6 of 8 , Jan 24, 2011
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                I'm working on documenting my own API (JSON, JSON-RPCish), and it's a lot of
                work. I just keep reminding myself how I'd like to read it.



                Dennis Gearon


                Signature Warning
                ----------------
                It is always a good idea to learn from your own mistakes. It is usually a better
                idea to learn from others’ mistakes, so you do not have to make them yourself.
                from 'http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/security/?p=4501&tag=nl.e036'


                EARTH has a Right To Life,
                otherwise we all die.




                ________________________________
                From: Tatu Saloranta <tsaloranta@...>
                To: json@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Mon, January 24, 2011 3:39:02 PM
                Subject: Re: [json] Java JSON


                On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 2:10 PM, Dennis Gearon <gearond@...> wrote:
                > If there was anything that bugs ME, is incomplete documentation and 'just read
                > the code' type of libraries.

                True. That also contributes to feeling of "but how is this different".
                Maybe there are strengths, but if finding those requires reading
                sources, yeah, that's lots to ask.

                And it's also easier to accumulate documentation when projects grow;
                and having small number of leading libs helps the snowball effect.

                -+ Tatu +-



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • codeWarrior
                ... Hopefully not... software is software... there s always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat... there can be only one is reminiscent of
                Message 7 of 8 , Jan 26, 2011
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                  --- In json@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas Crockford" <douglas@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > The JSON.org page currently lists 21 packages for Java. Will the Java community ever converge on one as some other language communities are doing?
                  >

                  Hopefully not... software is software... there's always more than one way to skin the proverbial cat...

                  "there can be only one" is reminiscent of MicroSloth... As a developer, I require options...
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