Re: [json] Re: JSON syntax grammar is missing 'undefined' literal value
On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 10:19 AM, Greg Patnude <gpatnude@...> wrote:
> Most modern programming languages HAVE defined "undefined" --
> Undefined is NOT 0 and NOT 1, and NOT 'null' AND NOT 'not null', and
> NOT true and NOT false... Bottom line: undefined is actually defined
> as something that is NOT DEFINED...
I don't think it's true for most (modern) programming languages;
although it may be true for most _scripting_ languages. This is
different from, say, null, which has a counterpart in about any
language including c and c++ (unlike someone claimed earlier).
> Notation" -- so -- on the technical definition -- JSON is in fact a
Not really: you can not derive semantics from etymology. Names are
just names and like you mention, they can lead to intuitive yet
To understand goals, one could consult the author... and Doug has
already pointed out his view on the matter.
Additionally reading the JSON RFC, http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4627.txt
one can find:
language-independent data interchange format"
My understanding is that just JS syntax was used. In a funny way makes
Apologies for prolonging this flogging of a dead horse,
-+ Tatu +-
- Thanks to all that replied to my prior post. This is my reply to you all.
1) Undefined is essential in languages that treat identifiers as hash
keys of an object (i.e. modern dynamic scripting languages). Static
identifier languages, can simulate dynamic identifiers with a hash
2) Afair, K&R (ANSI) C did not have null, only void*. In K&R (ANSI) C,
void is not valid in a conditional nor assignment expression, and
identifiers are not dynamically constructed and typed.
3) Undefined is a critical primitive in any hash object data
structure, that supports inheritance. I already explained my logic in
This will all become more obvious to you all, as someone actually
brings real world application of Semantic Web to reality.
4) I agree with Douglas not to modify the JSON standard specification,
but rather to usurp it (JSON+ or whatever it may be called) if the
market shall be so. I believe in de facto (competing) standards, not
in centrally managed ones, which is one of the main motivations of the
development I am working on. I believe in a million points of light
competing. I believe in freedom and liberty.
Okay enough talk from me. Your comments have encouraged me. Thanks
very much to all. And best wishes to all as well.
- Mark thinks it's boring... we should all move on.
----- Original Message ----
From: Mark Joseph <mark@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 11:30:20 AM
Subject: Re: [json] Re: JSON syntax grammar is missing 'undefined' literal value
I agree with this totally. And frankly I am finding the
current discussion a bit boring and a waste of time.
On Tue, 27 May 2008 09:46:23 -0700
"Tatu Saloranta" <tsaloranta@gmail. com> wrote:
> How about moving security-related discussion to another------------ --------- ----
>thread or group?
> And with regards to adding keyword 'undefined' to json,
>I would be
> strongly against adding any such language-specific
>keywords. As a
>silly and useless
> addition. Json's goals are not, as far as I understand,
> minimalistic generalized object notation.
> -+ Tatu +-
> On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 3:04 AM, Shelby Moore
><shelby@coolpage. com> wrote:
>>> Douglas Crockford wrote:
>>> > As a name, it is implemented as a writable global
>>> > variable, a feature with alarming security and
>>> > consequences.
>> On further thought, this is not any more a security
>> read-only to prevent against non-malicious untended
>>code can change
>> any user code. The entire current concept of browser
>> conceptually flawed, and the solution is as follows:
>> http://www.coolpage .com/commentary/ economic/ shelby/security. html
>> The only trustable web page is the one where ALL
>> come from a trusted source. Security is fundamentally
>> Increasing granularity of trust, decreases security
>>conflicts. I give
>> a proposal using sub-frames to segregate private data
>>from the rest of
>> the web page.
>> ------------ --------- --------- ------
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
Mark Joseph, Ph.D.
President and Secretary
IM: (Yahoo) mjoseph8888
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