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Re: [jslint] Re: return statement flagged as syntax error

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  • John Hawkinson
    douglascrockford wrote on Thu, 4 Oct 2012 ... It would be so easy to explain why this construct is disfavored. It would be so easy to
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 3, 2012
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      douglascrockford <douglas@...> wrote on Thu, 4 Oct 2012
      at 02:00:02 -0000 in <k4iqj2+rjit@...>:

      > Fix your code.

      It would be so easy to explain why this construct is disfavored.
      It would be so easy to give a link to a web page.
      It would be so easy to be polite.

      Why is it necessary to be rude?

      --jhawk@...
      John Hawkinson
    • douglascrockford
      ... In his original post he stipulated that the code was bad. So we are past explanation here. He refused my advice. I repeated my advice. He can take it or
      Message 2 of 10 , Oct 3, 2012
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        --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, John Hawkinson <jhawk@...> wrote:
        >
        > douglascrockford <douglas@...> wrote on Thu, 4 Oct 2012
        > at 02:00:02 -0000 in <k4iqj2+rjit@...>:
        >
        > > Fix your code.
        >
        > It would be so easy to explain why this construct is disfavored.
        > It would be so easy to give a link to a web page.
        > It would be so easy to be polite.
        >
        > Why is it necessary to be rude?

        In his original post he stipulated that the code was bad. So we are past explanation here. He refused my advice. I repeated my advice. He can take it or leave it. So can you.
      • Rob Richardson
        douglascrockford wrote ... explanation here. He refused my advice. I repeated my advice. He can take
        Message 3 of 10 , Oct 4, 2012
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          douglascrockford <douglas@... <mailto:douglas%40crockford.com> >
          wrote
          >
          > douglascrockford <douglas@...> wrote on Thu, 4 Oct 2012 at 02:00:02
          > -0000 in <k4iqj2+rjit@...>:
          >
          > > Fix your code.
          >
          > It would be so easy to explain why this construct is disfavored.
          > It would be so easy to give a link to a web page.
          > It would be so easy to be polite.
          >
          > Why is it necessary to be rude?
          >
          >In his original post he stipulated that the code was bad. So we are past
          explanation here. He refused my advice. I repeated my advice. He can take it
          or leave it. So can you.

          http://anton.kovalyov.net/2011/02/20/why-i-forked-jslint-to-jshint/
          http://www.dotnetrocks.com/default.aspx?showNum=802 (17:16 starts a
          wonderful discussion, but the whole show is great)
          http://www.hanselminutes.com/332/coneryminutes-1 (12:30 starts a descent
          sound-byte, but the whole conversation is excellent)
          http://blogs.hbr.org/bregman/2012/09/how-to-respond-to-negativity.html

          Douglas,

          1. I'm sorry you feel the need to be so negative and terse when people are
          asking for your advice.
          2. You've definitely reached a great point of knowledge and experience in
          your career, and others may not have that vision.
          3. You release some really great tools, and I'm so glad you're helping to
          enlighten, educate, and build the JavaScript community.

          Rob
        • Tom Worster
          There are always going to be stupid people who don t want to get it right. For them it s really good that JSHint is available. -- http://vimeo.com/25606006
          Message 4 of 10 , Oct 4, 2012
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            "There are always going to be stupid people who don't want to get it
            right. For them it's really good that JSHint is available." --
            http://vimeo.com/25606006

            as i've said before, JSLint isn't for everyone.

            i accept JSLint's preferences over my own because i doubt my own skills
            and can't be sure who will work on my code in future. it clearly makes no
            sense for me to argue with JSLint. there's nothing for me to gain from
            that.

            on the other hand, a programmer of superlative skill and confidence, who
            knows that her code will be maintained only by completely reliable
            programmers, and who has strong feelings about style that differ from
            those of JSLint -- that programmer has good reason to set their own
            standards and write their own tools.

            so, it appears i don't entirely agree with douglas' opening quote. but i
            think he was not thinking of these preternaturally talented programmers
            but of another category of people, those that think JSLint is wrong but
            still want some version of it to give their code its OK.

            as for polite/rude... i live in boston where traditionally the locals are
            terse, direct and forthright. it doesn't bother me.



            On 10/4/12 2:38 PM, "Rob Richardson" <erobrich@...> wrote:

            >douglascrockford <douglas@... <mailto:douglas%40crockford.com> >
            >wrote
            >>
            >> douglascrockford <douglas@...> wrote on Thu, 4 Oct 2012 at 02:00:02
            >> -0000 in <k4iqj2+rjit@...>:
            >>
            >> > Fix your code.
            >>
            >> It would be so easy to explain why this construct is disfavored.
            >> It would be so easy to give a link to a web page.
            >> It would be so easy to be polite.
            >>
            >> Why is it necessary to be rude?
            >>
            >>In his original post he stipulated that the code was bad. So we are past
            >explanation here. He refused my advice. I repeated my advice. He can take
            >it
            >or leave it. So can you.
            >
            >http://anton.kovalyov.net/2011/02/20/why-i-forked-jslint-to-jshint/
            >http://www.dotnetrocks.com/default.aspx?showNum=802 (17:16 starts a
            >wonderful discussion, but the whole show is great)
            >http://www.hanselminutes.com/332/coneryminutes-1 (12:30 starts a descent
            >sound-byte, but the whole conversation is excellent)
            >http://blogs.hbr.org/bregman/2012/09/how-to-respond-to-negativity.html
            >
            >Douglas,
            >
            >1. I'm sorry you feel the need to be so negative and terse when people are
            >asking for your advice.
            >2. You've definitely reached a great point of knowledge and experience in
            >your career, and others may not have that vision.
            >3. You release some really great tools, and I'm so glad you're helping to
            >enlighten, educate, and build the JavaScript community.
            >
            >Rob
            >
            >
            >
            >------------------------------------
            >
            >Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
          • Rob Richardson
            Tom, Thanks for the link. That was an incredibly cool video. Thoughts I particularly enjoyed: - Optimize for perfection, not for cleverness - Programs
            Message 5 of 10 , Oct 5, 2012
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              Tom,

              Thanks for the link. That was an incredibly cool video. Thoughts I
              particularly enjoyed:

              - "Optimize for perfection, not for cleverness"
              - "Programs need to communicate clearly with people"
              - "I'm not saying it isn't useful, I'm saying there isn't a case where it
              isn't confusing"
              - "Confusion must be avoided because confusion creates the condition which
              creates bugs"
              - "Clearly communicate intent"
              - "Forms that hide defects should be considered defects"

              By the way, you noted it was his opening quote that referenced JSHint, but
              it actually was the final comment in the video. (42:00) You might want to
              fix that bug. :D

              Rob


              -----Original Message-----
              From: jslint_com@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jslint_com@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of Tom Worster
              Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:39 PM
              To: jslint_com@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [jslint] Re: return statement flagged as syntax error



              "There are always going to be stupid people who don't want to get it right.
              For them it's really good that JSHint is available." --
              http://vimeo.com/25606006

              as i've said before, JSLint isn't for everyone.

              i accept JSLint's preferences over my own because i doubt my own skills and
              can't be sure who will work on my code in future. it clearly makes no sense
              for me to argue with JSLint. there's nothing for me to gain from that.

              on the other hand, a programmer of superlative skill and confidence, who
              knows that her code will be maintained only by completely reliable
              programmers, and who has strong feelings about style that differ from those
              of JSLint -- that programmer has good reason to set their own standards and
              write their own tools.

              so, it appears i don't entirely agree with douglas' opening quote. but i
              think he was not thinking of these preternaturally talented programmers but
              of another category of people, those that think JSLint is wrong but still
              want some version of it to give their code its OK.

              as for polite/rude... i live in boston where traditionally the locals are
              terse, direct and forthright. it doesn't bother me.

              On 10/4/12 2:38 PM, "Rob Richardson" <erobrich@...
              <mailto:erobrich%40robrich.org> > wrote:

              >douglascrockford <douglas@...
              ><mailto:douglas%40crockford.com> <mailto:douglas%40crockford.com> >
              >wrote
              >>
              >> douglascrockford <douglas@...> wrote on Thu, 4 Oct 2012 at 02:00:02
              >> -0000 in <k4iqj2+rjit@...>:
              >>
              >> > Fix your code.
              >>
              >> It would be so easy to explain why this construct is disfavored.
              >> It would be so easy to give a link to a web page.
              >> It would be so easy to be polite.
              >>
              >> Why is it necessary to be rude?
              >>
              >>In his original post he stipulated that the code was bad. So we are
              >>past
              >explanation here. He refused my advice. I repeated my advice. He can
              >take it or leave it. So can you.
              >
              >http://anton.kovalyov.net/2011/02/20/why-i-forked-jslint-to-jshint/
              >http://www.dotnetrocks.com/default.aspx?showNum=802 (17:16 starts a
              >wonderful discussion, but the whole show is great)
              >http://www.hanselminutes.com/332/coneryminutes-1 (12:30 starts a
              >descent sound-byte, but the whole conversation is excellent)
              >http://blogs.hbr.org/bregman/2012/09/how-to-respond-to-negativity.html
              >
              >Douglas,
              >
              >1. I'm sorry you feel the need to be so negative and terse when people
              >are asking for your advice.
              >2. You've definitely reached a great point of knowledge and experience
              >in your career, and others may not have that vision.
              >3. You release some really great tools, and I'm so glad you're helping
              >to enlighten, educate, and build the JavaScript community.
              >
              >Rob
              >
              >
              >
              >------------------------------------
              >
              >Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • Tom Worster
              the quotes you mention get to the core of the fundamental difference of opinion between JSLint s supporters and critics. the general considerations reflected
              Message 6 of 10 , Oct 5, 2012
              • 0 Attachment
                the quotes you mention get to the core of the fundamental difference of
                opinion between JSLint's supporters and critics.

                the general considerations reflected in the quotes are so important that
                they sweep all my personal style preferences into irrelevance. now that i
                really accept this (for many years i did not) it just makes no sense for
                me to take issue with any given rule in JSLint. to truly prioritize
                quality and then argue for accommodation of ones own style preferences is
                incoherent.

                btw: i don't believe i said anything about where in the video douglas'
                remark about JSHint arises. yes, it is all the way at the end.

                another that i particularly like:

                "The contract we have with the machine is that if the program is in any
                aspect, at any time, and in any way, imperfect with respect to any of its
                inputs, the computer has license to do anything it wants. And it can often
                do the worst possible thing, and at a time of its own choosing, which
                could be the worst possible time. And when that occurs the fault is not
                the computer's, it is the programmer's. So our programs have to be
                perfect."



                On 10/5/12 2:24 PM, "Rob Richardson" <erobrich@...> wrote:

                >Tom,
                >
                >Thanks for the link. That was an incredibly cool video. Thoughts I
                >particularly enjoyed:
                >
                >- "Optimize for perfection, not for cleverness"
                >- "Programs need to communicate clearly with people"
                >- "I'm not saying it isn't useful, I'm saying there isn't a case where it
                >isn't confusing"
                >- "Confusion must be avoided because confusion creates the condition which
                >creates bugs"
                >- "Clearly communicate intent"
                >- "Forms that hide defects should be considered defects"
                >
                >By the way, you noted it was his opening quote that referenced JSHint, but
                >it actually was the final comment in the video. (42:00) You might want
                >to
                >fix that bug. :D
                >
                >Rob
                >
                >
                >-----Original Message-----
                >From: jslint_com@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jslint_com@yahoogroups.com] On
                >Behalf Of Tom Worster
                >Sent: Thursday, October 04, 2012 12:39 PM
                >To: jslint_com@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [jslint] Re: return statement flagged as syntax error
                >
                >
                >
                >"There are always going to be stupid people who don't want to get it
                >right.
                >For them it's really good that JSHint is available." --
                >http://vimeo.com/25606006
                >
                >as i've said before, JSLint isn't for everyone.
                >
                >i accept JSLint's preferences over my own because i doubt my own skills
                >and
                >can't be sure who will work on my code in future. it clearly makes no
                >sense
                >for me to argue with JSLint. there's nothing for me to gain from that.
                >
                >on the other hand, a programmer of superlative skill and confidence, who
                >knows that her code will be maintained only by completely reliable
                >programmers, and who has strong feelings about style that differ from
                >those
                >of JSLint -- that programmer has good reason to set their own standards
                >and
                >write their own tools.
                >
                >so, it appears i don't entirely agree with douglas' opening quote. but i
                >think he was not thinking of these preternaturally talented programmers
                >but
                >of another category of people, those that think JSLint is wrong but still
                >want some version of it to give their code its OK.
                >
                >as for polite/rude... i live in boston where traditionally the locals are
                >terse, direct and forthright. it doesn't bother me.
                >
                >On 10/4/12 2:38 PM, "Rob Richardson" <erobrich@...
                ><mailto:erobrich%40robrich.org> > wrote:
                >
                >>douglascrockford <douglas@...
                >><mailto:douglas%40crockford.com> <mailto:douglas%40crockford.com> >
                >>wrote
                >>>
                >>> douglascrockford <douglas@...> wrote on Thu, 4 Oct 2012 at 02:00:02
                >>> -0000 in <k4iqj2+rjit@...>:
                >>>
                >>> > Fix your code.
                >>>
                >>> It would be so easy to explain why this construct is disfavored.
                >>> It would be so easy to give a link to a web page.
                >>> It would be so easy to be polite.
                >>>
                >>> Why is it necessary to be rude?
                >>>
                >>>In his original post he stipulated that the code was bad. So we are
                >>>past
                >>explanation here. He refused my advice. I repeated my advice. He can
                >>take it or leave it. So can you.
                >>
                >>http://anton.kovalyov.net/2011/02/20/why-i-forked-jslint-to-jshint/
                >>http://www.dotnetrocks.com/default.aspx?showNum=802 (17:16 starts a
                >>wonderful discussion, but the whole show is great)
                >>http://www.hanselminutes.com/332/coneryminutes-1 (12:30 starts a
                >>descent sound-byte, but the whole conversation is excellent)
                >>http://blogs.hbr.org/bregman/2012/09/how-to-respond-to-negativity.html
                >>
                >>Douglas,
                >>
                >>1. I'm sorry you feel the need to be so negative and terse when people
                >>are asking for your advice.
                >>2. You've definitely reached a great point of knowledge and experience
                >>in your career, and others may not have that vision.
                >>3. You release some really great tools, and I'm so glad you're helping
                >>to enlighten, educate, and build the JavaScript community.
                >>
                >>Rob
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>------------------------------------
                >>
                >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >------------------------------------
                >
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
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