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Re: [jslint] Can we please lose the trailing whitespace and "this" restriction?

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  • Tom Worster
    ... i want jslint to tell be about these in my code. ... i don t mind either way as it s easy to address in the build system. i don t entirely understand why
    Message 1 of 22 , Oct 27, 2011
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      On 10/27/11 4:55 PM, "paulcrowder1979" <paul@...> wrote:

      >I am no longer able to upgrade to JSLint to pick up bug fixes and new
      >features because of these two rules:
      >
      > - "this" can't be used in named functions.

      i want jslint to tell be about these in my code.


      > - Trailing whitespace and whitespace on blank lines is not allowed.

      i don't mind either way as it's easy to address in the build system.

      i don't entirely understand why people run jslint in routine qa cycles on
      3rd party code they have no control over. i can see the value of jslint
      when reviewing 3rd party code for possible adoption but after deciding to
      adopt the code, which is pretty much an all or nothing thing, it makes no
      difference what jslint thinks of it.
    • paulcrowder1979
      ... Who s running JSLint on third-party code?
      Message 2 of 22 , Oct 28, 2011
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        --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, Tom Worster <fsb@...> wrote:
        > i don't entirely understand why people run jslint in routine qa cycles on
        > 3rd party code they have no control over. i can see the value of jslint
        > when reviewing 3rd party code for possible adoption but after deciding to
        > adopt the code, which is pretty much an all or nothing thing, it makes no
        > difference what jslint thinks of it.
        >

        Who's running JSLint on third-party code?
      • sandyhead25
        ... Strict mode is the future of the language. The language is dead set on a course for increased readability and more terse syntax. ... Events are treated as
        Message 3 of 22 , Oct 28, 2011
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          > - "this" can't be used in named functions. I understand that strict
          > mode causes "this" to default to null rather than default to the
          > global window object for named functions, but my product uses
          > JavaScript libraries that provide event frameworks which use "this" to
          > pass values to the handler.

          Strict mode is the future of the language. The language is dead set on
          a course for increased readability and more terse syntax.

          > "this" is also valid for DOM event handlers since it points to the DOM
          > event to which the event is attached.

          Events are treated as methods that can be appended to or assigned, and
          so events are just like every other function assigned to an object
          property.

          > Finally, with ECMAScript 5's first-class bind() method, the number of
          > occurrences of "this" inside named functions is only going to
          > increase, not decrease.

          There is no reason to make that guess. "this" is a pronoun. Its use
          will likely remain consistent by people who enjoy using pronouns
          regardless of restrictions or enhancements to the language.

          > - Trailing whitespace and whitespace on blank lines is not allowed.
          > Again, my product consists of thousands of lines of JavaScript which
          > are updated daily by developers using an editor that doesn't strip
          > trailing whitespace by default. What makes this rule even sillier is
          > that all my code is minified before it ships, so no amount of
          > whitespace at the end of lines affects the end product. The amount of
          > resources it would require my organization to devote to fixing our
          > code would infinitely outweigh the benefit of doing so (which is
          > absolutely zero).

          Then put your code through a JSLint compliant automated beautifier.
          I have one right here:
          https://github.com/austincheney/Pretty-Diff/blob/master/js-beautify.js

          > Also, weren't you the one who said "don't fiddle with code"? I can't
          > imagine a more trivial fiddling of code than removing harmless
          > whitespace.

          You are presuming the whitespace at the end of a line is either trivial
          or harmless.

          > Otherwise I must either stick with an old version of JSLint (which
          > actually has bugs that have since been fixed) or upgrade and remove
          > the code that enforces these rules every time there's a new version.

          There are hundreds of forks of JSLint. Nobody is stopping you from
          creating one of your own. You can even identify the unfriendly segments
          of code and automate their exclusion each time you download an updated
          version of the application.

          > Please realize that unreasonable rules like these actually contribute
          > to the degradation of code rather than making it better as you turn
          > off more users like me to JSLint.

          I do not believe this is a concern for this application. It is
          intentionally created to make people cry.
        • Erik Eckhardt
          1. It s nice that *you* want jslint to tell you about these in your code. Someone else doesn t want it. You sound like my 5-year-old son who always has to
          Message 4 of 22 , Oct 28, 2011
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            1. It's nice that *you* want jslint to tell you about these in your code.
            Someone else doesn't want it. You sound like my 5-year-old son who always
            has to respond to others' personal statements with his own contradictory
            reality, like if I say "whoaaa I have a headache" he replies "Well ***I***
            don't have one!!!"

            2. I am one of two programmers in an organization that doesn't understand
            development at all. There is so little support and understanding it's not
            even funny. I have little time to do what I do, and almost no training or
            infrastructure of any kind. I leverage my time by borrowing third-party
            libraries. Running them through jslint does help me decide whether to use
            them, and being able to suppress noise about noncritical errors is very
            important to me. Additionally, I may over time tweak the code to improve it
            or to remove correctable flaws I'm aware of. So that's repeated use of
            jslint. Is your mind blown yet?

            On Thu, Oct 27, 2011 at 2:20 PM, Tom Worster <fsb@...> wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > On 10/27/11 4:55 PM, "paulcrowder1979" <paul@...> wrote:
            >
            > >I am no longer able to upgrade to JSLint to pick up bug fixes and new
            > >features because of these two rules:
            > >
            > > - "this" can't be used in named functions.
            >
            > i want jslint to tell be about these in my code.
            >
            >
            > > - Trailing whitespace and whitespace on blank lines is not allowed.
            >
            > i don't mind either way as it's easy to address in the build system.
            >
            > i don't entirely understand why people run jslint in routine qa cycles on
            > 3rd party code they have no control over. i can see the value of jslint
            > when reviewing 3rd party code for possible adoption but after deciding to
            > adopt the code, which is pretty much an all or nothing thing, it makes no
            > difference what jslint thinks of it.
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • John Hawkinson
            ... Only that it is cumbersome, expensive, and inefficient to do so. Forks are not free. They add huge maintenance hassles. They also are rude to the
            Message 5 of 22 , Oct 28, 2011
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              Austin wrote:
              > There are hundreds of forks of JSLint. Nobody is stopping you from
              > creating one of your own.

              Only that it is cumbersome, expensive, and inefficient to do so.
              Forks are not free. They add huge maintenance hassles. They also are
              rude to the community of users, who now needs to figure out what fork
              to use, and to qualify it somehow.

              The idea of "make your own fork" is quite antithetical to the idea of
              sharing that free software is based on. It should be strongly avoided if
              possible.


              So, "nobody is stopping you" is not a good argument. We stop ourselves,
              for good reason, either because we cannot afford to fork, or we are
              very much displeased at the idea. I have a fork of JSLint and it's
              really annoying. In fact, it's gotten to the point where I'm kind of
              afraid to update it because of what it might bring.

              --jhawk@...
              John Hawkinson
            • mathew
              ... Someone else already suggested running a beautifier on the code. Here are three more solutions: 1. Have the unit tests run an EOL whitespace check. 2. Have
              Message 6 of 22 , Nov 14, 2011
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                >
                > - Trailing whitespace and whitespace on blank lines is not allowed. Again,
                > my product consists of thousands of lines of JavaScript which are updated
                > daily by developers using an editor that doesn't strip trailing whitespace
                > by default.


                Someone else already suggested running a beautifier on the code. Here are
                three more solutions:

                1. Have the unit tests run an EOL whitespace check.

                2. Have a pre-commit hook in your version control system that checks for
                EOL whitespace and abandons the commit if it finds any.

                With those two approaches, developers will either learn to configure their
                text editors, or put up with the annoyance of fixing the files manually
                whenever they cause an error. If that's not acceptable for some reason,
                then:

                3. Have a pre-commit hook that strips EOL whitespace from the JavaScript
                for them.

                In fact, you could use jslint itself as a pre-commit hook, could you not?
                https://github.com/jrburke/dvcs_jslint/


                mathew
                --
                <URL:http://www.pobox.com/~meta/>


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • John Hawkinson
                ... ... These solutions may be reasonable if you are just starting out. They are not reasonable if you have a large installed codebase. Guess which position
                Message 7 of 22 , Nov 14, 2011
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                  mathew <meta404@...> wrote on Mon, 14 Nov 2011 at 13:23:24 -0600:

                  > Someone else already suggested running a beautifier on the code. Here are
                  > three more solutions:
                  ...

                  These solutions may be reasonable if you are just starting out.
                  They are not reasonable if you have a large installed codebase.
                  Guess which position most jslint users are in?

                  --jhawk@...
                  John Hawkinson
                • mathew
                  ... So don t run JSLint on your entire codebase. Either you need to fix the problems in the code that cause JSLint failures, or you need to not run JSLint on
                  Message 8 of 22 , Nov 14, 2011
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                    >
                    > These solutions may be reasonable if you are just starting out.
                    > They are not reasonable if you have a large installed codebase.


                    So don't run JSLint on your entire codebase.

                    Either you need to fix the problems in the code that cause JSLint failures,
                    or you need to not run JSLint on the code. Having JSLint fail to report
                    problems because you don't have time to fix the code is not a sensible
                    option. If it was, we could just replace JSLint with a no-op.


                    mathew
                    --
                    <URL:http://www.pobox.com/~meta/>


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Erik Eckhardt
                    Matthew, By saying fix the code you are saying the code is broken. Except, trailing white space is *not* broken code in the minds of many users, as evidenced
                    Message 9 of 22 , Nov 14, 2011
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                      Matthew,

                      By saying "fix the code" you are saying the code is broken. Except,
                      trailing white space is *not* broken code in the minds of many users, as
                      evidenced by all the discussion on this topic. You're ignoring this and
                      instead treating jslint's demands as some automatic canonical standard,
                      which failing to meet proves the code is broken, problematic, or otherwise
                      less than perfect or ideal.

                      So, please stop arguing for and discussing the wrong thing. It is *not* a
                      logistical problem of how to conform with jslint. They're programmers. They
                      can probably figure this out if they really have the inclination and all
                      other avenues are blocked. The issue is that for certain legitimate issues,
                      jslint should offer the flexibility for people to clean their code the way
                      they want, without the unnecessary pain caused by overzealous restrictions
                      in an otherwise very valuable tool.

                      Who is jslint for? Who is the customer? Why is it being produced? What is
                      its actual purpose? Does the owner care if some portion of the user base is
                      alienated by unnanounced beraking changes? If we had these things clearly
                      stated, perhaps some of the customers might decide not to be so any more.
                      If the expectation is that jslint can and will be changed without notice in
                      a way that breaks actual money-making operations (that is, the day-to-day
                      business need of users to produce code without unneeded & costly roadblocks
                      randomly showing up), perhaps it is too risky to integrate it into our
                      businesses. Wait... we can just use an old version, right? Unless we find
                      some other tool that is also growing but doesn't have the same risks...

                      Erik

                      On Mon, Nov 14, 2011 at 11:32 AM, mathew <meta404@...> wrote:

                      > **
                      >
                      >
                      > >
                      > > These solutions may be reasonable if you are just starting out.
                      > > They are not reasonable if you have a large installed codebase.
                      >
                      > So don't run JSLint on your entire codebase.
                      >
                      > Either you need to fix the problems in the code that cause JSLint failures,
                      > or you need to not run JSLint on the code. Having JSLint fail to report
                      > problems because you don't have time to fix the code is not a sensible
                      > option. If it was, we could just replace JSLint with a no-op.
                      >
                      >
                      > mathew
                      > --
                      > <URL:http://www.pobox.com/~meta/>
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • douglascrockford
                      ... JSLint was written for me. JavaScript is a language full of traps and sharp edges. I do not dare write in JavaScript without JSLint s assistance. I have
                      Message 10 of 22 , Nov 14, 2011
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                        --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, Erik Eckhardt <erik@...> wrote:

                        > Who is jslint for? Who is the customer? Why is it being produced? What is
                        > its actual purpose? Does the owner care if some portion of the user base is
                        > alienated by unnanounced beraking changes? If we had these things clearly
                        > stated, perhaps some of the customers might decide not to be so any more.
                        > If the expectation is that jslint can and will be changed without notice in
                        > a way that breaks actual money-making operations (that is, the day-to-day
                        > business need of users to produce code without unneeded & costly roadblocks
                        > randomly showing up), perhaps it is too risky to integrate it into our
                        > businesses. Wait... we can just use an old version, right? Unless we find
                        > some other tool that is also growing but doesn't have the same risks...


                        JSLint was written for me. JavaScript is a language full of traps and sharp edges. I do not dare write in JavaScript without JSLint's assistance. I have made it available to the world for free. If it helps you too, then great. If it doesn't help you, then don't use it. I get paid the same either way.

                        I have been improving JSLint with the assistance of the people who use it. As our understanding of the hazards in JavaScript improve, JSLint improves, and the subset of JavaScript that it recommends changes.

                        Regrettably, this necessarily causes programs with previously undiscovered faults to, as you would say, berak. When that happens, the best advice is to follow JSLint's advice and fix your code.

                        With respect to spaces at the end of lines: From a code hygiene perspective, there is no good argument for keeping them. If you are arguing that there is no one in your organization with the programming skill to remove them, then it seems your organization is suffering from problems that JSLint cannot help you solve. But in any case, the "Tolerate messy white space" option will ignore those spaces. But my advice is to not use that option and write smart looking code instead.
                      • paulcrowder1979
                        ... I agree with some of your points. JSLint is a valuable tool, and I do not write JavaScript without it. I also see the value in adding new rules as new
                        Message 11 of 22 , Nov 16, 2011
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                          --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, "douglascrockford" <douglas@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > JSLint was written for me. JavaScript is a language full of traps and sharp edges. I do not dare write in JavaScript without JSLint's assistance. I have made it available to the world for free. If it helps you too, then great. If it doesn't help you, then don't use it. I get paid the same either way.
                          >
                          > I have been improving JSLint with the assistance of the people who use it. As our understanding of the hazards in JavaScript improve, JSLint improves, and the subset of JavaScript that it recommends changes.
                          >
                          > Regrettably, this necessarily causes programs with previously undiscovered faults to, as you would say, berak. When that happens, the best advice is to follow JSLint's advice and fix your code.
                          >
                          > With respect to spaces at the end of lines: From a code hygiene perspective, there is no good argument for keeping them. If you are arguing that there is no one in your organization with the programming skill to remove them, then it seems your organization is suffering from problems that JSLint cannot help you solve. But in any case, the "Tolerate messy white space" option will ignore those spaces. But my advice is to not use that option and write smart looking code instead.
                          >

                          I agree with some of your points. JSLint is a valuable tool, and I do not write JavaScript without it. I also see the value in adding new rules as new hazards are discovered. What I don't understand is adding arbitrary rules that don't add to the quality of the code. You say there's no argument for keeping trailing whitespace, but I disagree. The best argument is that the whitespace is already there, it's doing no harm, and to remove it and enforce that all new code not have it would require a non-trivial amount of effort. That is effort that could be spent adding to the quality of our product, such as adding new features and fixing real bugs, rather than fiddling with code (wasn't it you who said "I highly recommend you don't fiddle with code"? https://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/video.php?v=crockonjs-5). I'm not sure why you jumped to the conclusion that no one in my organization has the skill to write a utility to remove trailing whitespace rather than perhaps considering the fact that writing the utility costs time and money; I think that says more about you than it does my organization.
                        • Michael Mikowski
                          Removing trailing whitespace IS trivial: sed -i -e s/ s*$// $(find ./ -type f) Of course if you are using notepad, it might take a few months.
                          Message 12 of 22 , Nov 16, 2011
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                            Removing trailing whitespace IS trivial:

                            sed -i -e 's/\s*$//' $(find ./ -type f)


                            Of course if you are using notepad, it might take a few months.



                            ________________________________
                            From: paulcrowder1979 <paul@...>
                            To: jslint_com@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 12:44 PM
                            Subject: [jslint] Re: Can we please lose the trailing whitespace and "this" restriction?


                             


                            --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, "douglascrockford" <douglas@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > JSLint was written for me. JavaScript is a language full of traps and sharp edges. I do not dare write in JavaScript without JSLint's assistance. I have made it available to the world for free. If it helps you too, then great. If it doesn't help you, then don't use it. I get paid the same either way.
                            >
                            > I have been improving JSLint with the assistance of the people who use it. As our understanding of the hazards in JavaScript improve, JSLint improves, and the subset of JavaScript that it recommends changes.
                            >
                            > Regrettably, this necessarily causes programs with previously undiscovered faults to, as you would say, berak. When that happens, the best advice is to follow JSLint's advice and fix your code.
                            >
                            > With respect to spaces at the end of lines: From a code hygiene perspective, there is no good argument for keeping them. If you are arguing that there is no one in your organization with the programming skill to remove them, then it seems your organization is suffering from problems that JSLint cannot help you solve. But in any case, the "Tolerate messy white space" option will ignore those spaces. But my advice is to not use that option and write smart looking code instead.
                            >

                            I agree with some of your points. JSLint is a valuable tool, and I do not write JavaScript without it. I also see the value in adding new rules as new hazards are discovered. What I don't understand is adding arbitrary rules that don't add to the quality of the code. You say there's no argument for keeping trailing whitespace, but I disagree. The best argument is that the whitespace is already there, it's doing no harm, and to remove it and enforce that all new code not have it would require a non-trivial amount of effort. That is effort that could be spent adding to the quality of our product, such as adding new features and fixing real bugs, rather than fiddling with code (wasn't it you who said "I highly recommend you don't fiddle with code"? https://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/video.php?v=crockonjs-5). I'm not sure why you jumped to the conclusion that no one in my organization has the skill to write a utility to remove trailing whitespace
                            rather than perhaps considering the fact that writing the utility costs time and money; I think that says more about you than it does my organization.




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Michael Mikowski
                            You want to do this independent of all other code work.  So the following workflow is recommended: git pull sed -i -e s/ s*$// $(find ./ -type f) // ensure
                            Message 13 of 22 , Nov 16, 2011
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                              You want to do this independent of all other code work.  So the following workflow is recommended:

                              git pull
                              sed -i -e 's/\s*$//' $(find ./ -type f)
                              // ensure nothing has been broken (run your executable against regression tests!):
                              git diff
                              git difftool

                              // and now save the changes ye hath wrought:
                              git commit -a -m 'Removed trailing whitespace in all files in repo'


                              ________________________________
                              From: Michael Mikowski <z_mikowski@...>
                              To: "jslint_com@yahoogroups.com" <jslint_com@yahoogroups.com>
                              Cc: paulcrowder1979 <paul@...>
                              Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 1:27 PM
                              Subject: Re: [jslint] Re: Can we please lose the trailing whitespace and "this" restriction?


                              Removing trailing whitespace IS trivial:

                              sed -i -e 's/\s*$//' $(find ./ -type f)


                              Of course if you are using notepad, it might take a few months.



                              ________________________________
                              From: paulcrowder1979 <paul@...>
                              To: jslint_com@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, November 16, 2011 12:44 PM
                              Subject: [jslint] Re: Can we please lose the trailing whitespace and "this" restriction?


                               


                              --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, "douglascrockford" <douglas@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > JSLint was written for me. JavaScript is a language full of traps and sharp edges. I do not dare write in JavaScript without JSLint's assistance. I have made it available to the world for free. If it helps you too, then great. If it doesn't help you, then don't use it. I get paid the same either way.
                              >
                              > I have been improving JSLint with the assistance of the people who use it. As our understanding of the hazards in JavaScript improve, JSLint improves, and the subset of JavaScript that it recommends changes.
                              >
                              > Regrettably, this necessarily causes programs with previously undiscovered faults to, as you would say, berak. When that happens, the best advice is to follow JSLint's advice and fix your code.
                              >
                              > With respect to spaces at the end of lines: From a code hygiene perspective, there is no good argument for keeping them. If you are arguing that there is no one in your organization with the programming skill to remove them, then it seems your organization is suffering from problems that JSLint cannot help you solve. But in any case, the "Tolerate messy white space" option will ignore those spaces. But my advice is to not use that option and write smart looking code instead.
                              >

                              I agree with some of your points. JSLint is a valuable tool, and I do not write JavaScript without it. I also see the value in adding new rules as new hazards are discovered. What I don't understand is adding arbitrary rules that don't add to the quality of the code. You say there's no argument for keeping trailing whitespace, but I disagree. The best argument is that the whitespace is already there, it's doing no harm, and to remove it and enforce that all new code not have it would require a non-trivial amount of effort. That is effort that could be spent adding to the quality of our product, such as adding new features and fixing real bugs, rather than fiddling with code (wasn't it you who said "I highly recommend you don't fiddle with code"? https://developer.yahoo.com/yui/theater/video.php?v=crockonjs-5). I'm not sure why you jumped to the conclusion that no one in my organization has the skill to write a utility to remove trailing whitespace
                              rather than perhaps considering the fact that writing the utility costs time and money; I think that says more about you than it does my organization.




                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • paulcrowder1979
                              ... Writing the code is trivial. Pushing out an IDE plug-in to 100+ developers that will run the code when they save their files, waiting for the plug-in to
                              Message 14 of 22 , Nov 17, 2011
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                                --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, Michael Mikowski <z_mikowski@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Removing trailing whitespace IS trivial:
                                >
                                > sed -i -e 's/\s*$//' $(find ./ -type f)
                                >
                                >
                                > Of course if you are using notepad, it might take a few months.
                                >

                                Writing the code is trivial. Pushing out an IDE plug-in to 100+ developers that will run the code when they save their files, waiting for the plug-in to propagate to every developer, then updating our check-in policy to enforce the new rule is not trivial. I don't mind going through that effort when the pay-off is significant, but removing trailing whitespace has zero impact on the shipping product so it's not worth the effort.

                                It looks like my only recourse at this point is to rip out the two lines of JSLint that enforce the trailing whitespace rule and the "this" strict violation rule each time I upgrade JSLint. I actually have more of a problem with the "this" restriction for reasons I mentioned earlier, but I have no confidence that it will be addressed after having read the opinion of his users that Douglas Crockford stated in his previous post.
                              • Michael Mikowski
                                Hey Paul: I feel your pain.  I don t know your process, environment, and restrictions.  So all this is speculation. If you are supporting 100+ developers,
                                Message 15 of 22 , Nov 17, 2011
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                                  Hey Paul:

                                  I feel your pain.  I don't know your process, environment, and restrictions.  So all this is speculation.

                                  If you are supporting 100+ developers, you certainly seem to have the critical mass to justify creating a forked version for your purposes.  You could then distribute to the developers via your SCMS, and using it in your build process.  Our official JSLint utility is kept in SCMS, and changes about once per quarter.  It is almost always adjusted to meet our standards that deviate from the JSLint way.

                                  I am very happy with that solution, and am very greatfull that I don't have to write 99% of our Lint utility, and that Mr. Crockford is kind enough to share this wonderful software with us, even if his idea of well formatted code doesn't agree with mine :)

                                  Sincerely, Mike

                                  ps here is my vim "plugin" for removing whitespace:

                                  "=====[ ;removes trailing space ]=====

                                  map ;k :%s?\s\+$??<CR>
                                   
                                  pss

                                  If you wanted to enforce no-trailing-whitespace, you could update your entire repository as below, check-in, and then make developers aware that trailing whitespace will no longer be acceptable under JSLint.



                                  ________________________________
                                  From: paulcrowder1979 <paul@...>
                                  To: jslint_com@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 7:31 AM
                                  Subject: [jslint] Re: Can we please lose the trailing whitespace and "this" restriction?


                                   


                                  --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, Michael Mikowski <z_mikowski@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Removing trailing whitespace IS trivial:
                                  >
                                  > sed -i -e 's/\s*$//' $(find ./ -type f)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Of course if you are using notepad, it might take a few months.
                                  >

                                  Writing the code is trivial. Pushing out an IDE plug-in to 100+ developers that will run the code when they save their files, waiting for the plug-in to propagate to every developer, then updating our check-in policy to enforce the new rule is not trivial. I don't mind going through that effort when the pay-off is significant, but removing trailing whitespace has zero impact on the shipping product so it's not worth the effort.

                                  It looks like my only recourse at this point is to rip out the two lines of JSLint that enforce the trailing whitespace rule and the "this" strict violation rule each time I upgrade JSLint. I actually have more of a problem with the "this" restriction for reasons I mentioned earlier, but I have no confidence that it will be addressed after having read the opinion of his users that Douglas Crockford stated in his previous post.




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Jean-Charles Meyrignac
                                  ... In my company, we use SVN+CCNet+Nant/MsBuild If you have 100+ developers, you necessarily have a continuous build, and I m 100% sure that you can script
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Nov 17, 2011
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                                    On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 11:48 PM, Michael Mikowski <z_mikowski@...>wrote:

                                    > **
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Our official JSLint utility is kept in SCMS, and changes about once per
                                    > quarter. It is almost always adjusted to meet our standards that deviate
                                    > from the JSLint way.
                                    >
                                    > +1
                                    In my company, we use SVN+CCNet+Nant/MsBuild

                                    If you have 100+ developers, you necessarily have a continuous build, and
                                    I'm 100% sure that you can script your own build automation.
                                    When people commit their source, the source could be automatically cleaned
                                    (or you can clean it once, and force the developers to follow the rules).
                                    Then, your build process should parse JS sources with JSLint, and block the
                                    build if there are errors.
                                    The goal of breaking the build is to force developers to acquire good
                                    programming habits. It's very difficult to change habits, because nobody
                                    wants to follow new rules.
                                    Once the sources have been checked against your coding rules, the process
                                    should run some unit tests, to validate that the basic functions are not
                                    broken.

                                    I agree that this solution is quite "brute", but you should see JsLint as
                                    an ally instead of an enemy.
                                    Personally, I tended to fight against software until I stopped trying to
                                    force my wishes on it, and everything went smoothly afterwards.

                                    Alternatively, you can use a modified version of JsLint in your build
                                    process, and upgrade your local version every 6 months, as the parent post
                                    explained.

                                    JC


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Nagy Endre
                                    Hi everyone, maybe it s a little offtopic sorry, but can anyone explain why this inside the o object is refer to window ? Why it s not refer to the o
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Nov 18, 2011
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                                      Hi everyone, maybe it's a little offtopic sorry, but can anyone explain why "this" inside the "o" object is refer to window ?
                                      Why it's not refer to the "o" object if we are inside there? I want to access from the returned object in function "f" the "o.p" property without using "o". Thanks!

                                      var p = 2,
                                          o  =  {
                                              p: "a",
                                              f: (function (m) {
                                                  return {
                                                      l: m.p
                                                  };
                                              }(this))
                                          };

                                      p = o.f.l;

                                      Endre


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • z_mikowski@yahoo.com
                                      Javascript does not provide block scope, only functional scope. Therefore the this in your code takes the value as provided to the enclosing function. You
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Nov 18, 2011
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                                        Javascript does not provide block scope, only functional scope. Therefore the 'this' in your code takes the value as provided to the enclosing function. You could use the module pattern to get the results you are seeking, e.g.

                                        var o = function (){
                                        // private stuff
                                        return {
                                        p : "a",
                                        // rest of object here
                                        };
                                        };



                                        Nagy Endre <forewer2000@...> wrote:

                                        >
                                        >Hi everyone, maybe it's a little offtopic sorry, but can anyone explain why "this" inside the "o" object is refer to window ?
                                        >Why it's not refer to the "o" object if we are inside there? I want to access from the returned object in function "f" the "o.p" property without using "o". Thanks!
                                        >
                                        >var p = 2,
                                        >    o  =  {
                                        >        p: "a",
                                        >        f: (function (m) {
                                        >            return {
                                        >                l: m.p
                                        >            };
                                        >        }(this))
                                        >    };
                                        >
                                        >p = o.f.l;
                                        >
                                        >Endre
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >


                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Rob Richardson
                                        Try this: var p = 2, o = { p: a }; o.f = (function (m) { return { l: m.p }; }(o)); p = o.f.l; Or this: var p = 2, o = { p: a }; o.prototype.f =
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Nov 18, 2011
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                                          Try this:

                                          var p = 2,
                                          o = {
                                          p: "a"
                                          };
                                          o.f = (function (m) {
                                          return {
                                          l: m.p
                                          };
                                          }(o));
                                          p = o.f.l;

                                          Or this:

                                          var p = 2,
                                          o = {
                                          p: "a"
                                          };
                                          o.prototype.f = function () {
                                          return {
                                          l: this.p
                                          };
                                          };
                                          p = o.f.l;

                                          Rob


                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: jslint_com@yahoogroups.com [mailto:jslint_com@yahoogroups.com] On
                                          Behalf Of Nagy Endre
                                          Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 7:13 AM
                                          To: jslint_com@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [jslint] this question




                                          Hi everyone, maybe it's a little offtopic sorry, but can anyone explain why
                                          "this" inside the "o" object is refer to window ?
                                          Why it's not refer to the "o" object if we are inside there? I want to
                                          access from the returned object in function "f" the "o.p" property without
                                          using "o". Thanks!

                                          var p = 2,
                                          o = {
                                          p: "a",
                                          f: (function (m) {
                                          return {
                                          l: m.p
                                          };
                                          }(this))
                                          };

                                          p = o.f.l;

                                          Endre

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • stauren
                                          I don t think this is about block scope or functional sope. This is probably because the function is executed when the script is being parsed, at which time
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Nov 20, 2011
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            I don't think this is about block scope or functional sope. This is
                                            probably because the function is executed when the script is being parsed,
                                            at which time the outer object is not fully established, so the the keyword
                                            'this' points to the window object.

                                            Another funny aspect of javascript.

                                            ---
                                            stauren (畅)
                                            blog : http://stauren.net
                                            email : stauren@...


                                            On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 12:19 AM, <z_mikowski@...> wrote:

                                            > **
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Javascript does not provide block scope, only functional scope. Therefore
                                            > the 'this' in your code takes the value as provided to the enclosing
                                            > function. You could use the module pattern to get the results you are
                                            > seeking, e.g.
                                            >
                                            > var o = function (){
                                            > // private stuff
                                            > return {
                                            > p : "a",
                                            > // rest of object here
                                            > };
                                            > };
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Nagy Endre <forewer2000@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > >
                                            > >Hi everyone, maybe it's a little offtopic sorry, but can anyone explain
                                            > why "this" inside the "o" object is refer to window ?
                                            > >Why it's not refer to the "o" object if we are inside there? I want to
                                            > access from the returned object in function "f" the "o.p" property without
                                            > using "o". Thanks!
                                            > >
                                            > >var p = 2,
                                            > > o = {
                                            > > p: "a",
                                            > > f: (function (m) {
                                            > > return {
                                            > > l: m.p
                                            > > };
                                            > > }(this))
                                            > > };
                                            > >
                                            > >p = o.f.l;
                                            > >
                                            > >Endre
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Nagy Endre
                                            Yes, i realized that in {a: this} the value of a is the window value, not what we expect, because at runtime probably the object is not created yet, so
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Nov 21, 2011
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                                              Yes, i realized that in {a: this} the value of "a" is the "window" value, not what we expect, because at runtime probably the object is not created yet,
                                              so only a method that is called later could have the correct "this" value.

                                              I think it would be great if JSLINT could display an error in this situation like:
                                              var o = {
                                                  a : this;
                                              };

                                              Because i think is there a little confusion here what will be the value of "this".



                                              ________________________________
                                              From: stauren <liuch.pku@...>
                                              To: jslint_com@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 9:49 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [jslint] this question


                                               
                                              I don't think this is about block scope or functional sope. This is
                                              probably because the function is executed when the script is being parsed,
                                              at which time the outer object is not fully established, so the the keyword
                                              'this' points to the window object.

                                              Another funny aspect of javascript.

                                              ---
                                              stauren (畅)
                                              blog : http://stauren.net
                                              email : stauren@...

                                              On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 12:19 AM, <z_mikowski@...> wrote:

                                              > **
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Javascript does not provide block scope, only functional scope. Therefore
                                              > the 'this' in your code takes the value as provided to the enclosing
                                              > function. You could use the module pattern to get the results you are
                                              > seeking, e.g.
                                              >
                                              > var o = function (){
                                              > // private stuff
                                              > return {
                                              > p : "a",
                                              > // rest of object here
                                              > };
                                              > };
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Nagy Endre <forewer2000@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > >
                                              > >Hi everyone, maybe it's a little offtopic sorry, but can anyone explain
                                              > why "this" inside the "o" object is refer to window ?
                                              > >Why it's not refer to the "o" object if we are inside there? I want to
                                              > access from the returned object in function "f" the "o.p" property without
                                              > using "o". Thanks!
                                              > >
                                              > >var p = 2,
                                              > > o = {
                                              > > p: "a",
                                              > > f: (function (m) {
                                              > > return {
                                              > > l: m.p
                                              > > };
                                              > > }(this))
                                              > > };
                                              > >
                                              > >p = o.f.l;
                                              > >
                                              > >Endre
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              > >
                                              >
                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >

                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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