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Re: Formatting question

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  • Douglas Crockford
    ... Are you trying to convince me that you are stupid enough to have a 60 character variable name and one character variable names in the same function? I m
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 4, 2011
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      --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, "g2223060" <g2223060@...> wrote:

      > Wow. So if I have a variable that is initialized on the var statement and it is 50-60 characters long, I should declare it LAST on the var statement, otherwise I will have to have a bunch of lines with one variable on each line, like:
      > i,
      > j,
      > k,
      > ...etc...
      >
      > For the life of me, I can't see how this JSLint rule helps readability or code quality. But that's just me... Thanks for your explanation!


      Are you trying to convince me that you are stupid enough to have a 60 character variable name and one character variable names in the same function? I'm not buying it. I don't think you are *that* stupid.
    • Dylon Edwards
      There is no need for inflamatory name calling, especially when one has no idea of another s logistics; one may be using single character identifiers for
      Message 2 of 16 , Aug 4, 2011
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        There is no need for inflamatory name calling, especially when one has
        no idea of another's logistics; one may be using single character
        identifiers for induction variables and longer identifiers for
        descriptive names, which is very sensible. I do feel that one should
        remain consistent with how one organizes variable declarations, though.
        If, in some function, most variables are declared one per line, having
        a line with two or three declarations can confuse others who may miss
        the fact that the line contains more than one variable.

        --
        Dylon

        On Thu 04 Aug 2011 02:04:24 PM EDT, Douglas Crockford wrote:
        > --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com <mailto:jslint_com%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > "g2223060" <g2223060@...> wrote:
        >
        > > Wow. So if I have a variable that is initialized on the var statement
        > and it is 50-60 characters long, I should declare it LAST on the var
        > statement, otherwise I will have to have a bunch of lines with one
        > variable on each line, like:
        > > i,
        > > j,
        > > k,
        > > ...etc...
        > >
        > > For the life of me, I can't see how this JSLint rule helps
        > readability or code quality. But that's just me... Thanks for your
        > explanation!
        >
        > Are you trying to convince me that you are stupid enough to have a 60
        > character variable name and one character variable names in the same
        > function? I'm not buying it. I don't think you are *that* stupid.
        >
        >
      • g2223060
        Douglas- I m not trying to convince you of anything ;) As background, I work as a user interface architect for a large financial services company that uses
        Message 3 of 16 , Aug 4, 2011
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          Douglas- I'm not trying to convince you of anything ;)

          As background, I work as a user interface architect for a large financial services company that uses offshore developers. In our group, there are about 12-15 JavaScript programmers, working on 4 or 5 projects. My concern is the quality of the code they deliver. All of our JavaScript programmers are required to watch your videos as well as some internal videos that were inspired by you about our internal frameworks. We also have a policy that all JavaScript must pass JSLint before committing. I typically receive several requests for assistance each day. Some of them are due to inexperience with JavaScript and some of them are errors returned by JSLint that are not obvious. Most of the JSLint problems are truly problems- I can use it as a teaching opportunity, they correct their code, it passes JSLint and we move on. Others issues, such as this one, require me to do some research about the meaning of the error.

          So, as to this issue, if a variable is being initialized on the 'var' statement, that line may well exceed 50-60 characters, for example:

          var elementInWebPage = YAHOO.util.Dom.get('someElementID'), i, j;

          That first variable declaration is 59 characters. If I enforce {vars: false} then they are required to continue with one var statement, even though their editor/formatter may wrap the line.

          Long story a little longer (thanks for reading): Now that I know the real reason JSLint complains that 'j' should be in column 5, not column 8 I can inform our offshore staff to declare the uninitialized variables first. If they REALLY want to know why this is valid:

          var i, j,
          elementInWebPage = YAHOO.util.Dom.get('someElementID');

          and this is not:

          var elementInWebPage = YAHOO.util.Dom.get('someElementID'),
          i, j;

          I can tell them. But to say that the first way is "better" from a code quality or readability perspective, I just don't see that.

          -Steve

          --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas Crockford" <douglas@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, "g2223060" <g2223060@> wrote:
          >
          > > Wow. So if I have a variable that is initialized on the var statement and it is 50-60 characters long, I should declare it LAST on the var statement, otherwise I will have to have a bunch of lines with one variable on each line, like:
          > > i,
          > > j,
          > > k,
          > > ...etc...
          > >
          > > For the life of me, I can't see how this JSLint rule helps readability or code quality. But that's just me... Thanks for your explanation!
          >
          >
          > Are you trying to convince me that you are stupid enough to have a 60 character variable name and one character variable names in the same function? I'm not buying it. I don't think you are *that* stupid.
          >
        • Robert Ferney
          Just as a personal impression. I do find var i, j, elementInWebPage = YAHOO.util.Dom.get( someElementID ); more readable than var elementInWebPage =
          Message 4 of 16 , Aug 4, 2011
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            Just as a personal impression.
            I do find

            var i, j,
            elementInWebPage = YAHOO.util.Dom.get('someElementID');

            more readable than

            var elementInWebPage = YAHOO.util.Dom.get('someElementID'),
            i, j;

            having the un-initialize variables first, makes if obvious that they are
            being declared as variables. while in the second form, the i, j; look a bit
            orphaned.

            - Robert Ferney


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Doc Emmett Splendid
            I ve struggled with how to organize unintialised variables in one full var statement as well (largely because I only recently became convinced through
            Message 5 of 16 , Aug 4, 2011
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              I've struggled with how to organize unintialised variables in one full var statement as well (largely because I only recently became convinced through experience that the "one var per function" is The Right Thing To Do). I haven't followed this format in the past, but I will do so henceforth for the very reason you say.

              Emmett


              ________________________________
              From: Robert Ferney <capnregex@...>
              To: jslint_com@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2011, 13:33
              Subject: Re: [jslint] Re: Formatting question


               
              Just as a personal impression.
              I do find

              var i, j,
              elementInWebPage = YAHOO.util.Dom.get('someElementID');

              more readable than

              var elementInWebPage = YAHOO.util.Dom.get('someElementID'),
              i, j;

              having the un-initialize variables first, makes if obvious that they are
              being declared as variables. while in the second form, the i, j; look a bit
              orphaned.

              - Robert Ferney

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mark Volkmann
              Keep in mind this option: var elementInWebPage, i, j; elementInWebPage = YAHOO.util.Dom.get( someElementID ); I like to declare all the local variables at the
              Message 6 of 16 , Aug 4, 2011
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                Keep in mind this option:

                var elementInWebPage, i, j;

                elementInWebPage = YAHOO.util.Dom.get('someElementID');

                I like to declare all the local variables at the beginning of each function
                in alphabetical order and then initialize them on separate lines.
                The only time I initialized them in the var statement is when they have
                short values like 1, [], or {}.

                --
                R. Mark Volkmann
                Object Computing, Inc.


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • g2223060
                I agree with you, Mark- I have been using that style in my own code. Probably why I haven t seen this error until the developer asked for my help with it :)
                Message 7 of 16 , Aug 4, 2011
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                  I agree with you, Mark- I have been using that style in my own code. Probably why I haven't seen this error until the developer asked for my help with it :) Maybe we should just have a policy that you don't initialize in the declaration...

                  Some experimentation with JSLint shows that this is only enforced when there is ONE variable on the first line. For example, this passes:

                  var a, b,
                  c, d, e, f, g, h, i;

                  But this does not:

                  var x,
                  y, z;

                  -Steve

                  --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, Mark Volkmann <r.mark.volkmann@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Keep in mind this option:
                  >
                  > var elementInWebPage, i, j;
                  >
                  > elementInWebPage = YAHOO.util.Dom.get('someElementID');
                  >
                  > I like to declare all the local variables at the beginning of each function
                  > in alphabetical order and then initialize them on separate lines.
                  > The only time I initialized them in the var statement is when they have
                  > short values like 1, [], or {}.
                  >
                  > --
                  > R. Mark Volkmann
                  > Object Computing, Inc.
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • abyssoft@ymail.com
                  I use a formatting that is indeed supported by JSLint and is highly readable to me var ....varname1, ....varname2 = suchandsuch , ....varname3 = 1234; that
                  Message 8 of 16 , Aug 4, 2011
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                    I use a formatting that is indeed supported by JSLint and is highly readable to me

                    var
                    ....varname1,
                    ....varname2 = "suchandsuch",
                    ....varname3 = 1234;

                    that way if I see a var I know that until I see the ; I am still with in my declaration block.


                    --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, Doc Emmett Splendid <emmett.thesane@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I've struggled with how to organize unintialised variables in one full var statement as well (largely because I only recently became convinced through experience that the "one var per function" is The Right Thing To Do). I haven't followed this format in the past, but I will do so henceforth for the very reason you say.
                    >
                    > Emmett
                    >
                    >
                    > ________________________________
                    > From: Robert Ferney <capnregex@...>
                    > To: jslint_com@yahoogroups.com
                    > Sent: Thursday, 4 August 2011, 13:33
                    > Subject: Re: [jslint] Re: Formatting question
                    >
                    >
                    >  
                    > Just as a personal impression.
                    > I do find
                    >
                    > var i, j,
                    > elementInWebPage = YAHOO.util.Dom.get('someElementID');
                    >
                    > more readable than
                    >
                    > var elementInWebPage = YAHOO.util.Dom.get('someElementID'),
                    > i, j;
                    >
                    > having the un-initialize variables first, makes if obvious that they are
                    > being declared as variables. while in the second form, the i, j; look a bit
                    > orphaned.
                    >
                    > - Robert Ferney
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • abyssoft@ymail.com
                    That looks like jslint is right when you review it. by setting a single variable on the line of the var statement you are setting the expected pattern of 1
                    Message 9 of 16 , Aug 4, 2011
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                      That looks like jslint is right when you review it.

                      by setting a single variable on the line of the var statement you are setting the expected pattern of 1 variable per line

                      by setting either 2+ variables or no variables on the line of the var statement you are setting the expected pattern of one or more per line following the var statement.

                      I mention in another reply in this thread that I use the

                      var
                      ....varname1,
                      ....varname2 = "string",
                      ....varname3 = 0;

                      pattern with one variable per line and var statement on it's own line, as it is both supported by JSLint and I find it very easy to read.


                      --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, "g2223060" <g2223060@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I agree with you, Mark- I have been using that style in my own code. Probably why I haven't seen this error until the developer asked for my help with it :) Maybe we should just have a policy that you don't initialize in the declaration...
                      >
                      > Some experimentation with JSLint shows that this is only enforced when there is ONE variable on the first line. For example, this passes:
                      >
                      > var a, b,
                      > c, d, e, f, g, h, i;
                      >
                      > But this does not:
                      >
                      > var x,
                      > y, z;
                      >
                      > -Steve
                      >
                      > --- In jslint_com@yahoogroups.com, Mark Volkmann <r.mark.volkmann@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Keep in mind this option:
                      > >
                      > > var elementInWebPage, i, j;
                      > >
                      > > elementInWebPage = YAHOO.util.Dom.get('someElementID');
                      > >
                      > > I like to declare all the local variables at the beginning of each function
                      > > in alphabetical order and then initialize them on separate lines.
                      > > The only time I initialized them in the var statement is when they have
                      > > short values like 1, [], or {}.
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > R. Mark Volkmann
                      > > Object Computing, Inc.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      >
                    • Tom Worster
                      ... If you take that step, I hope you do so because you believe it is a good policy, not because of a tool like JSLint. Personally, fwiw, I think initializing
                      Message 10 of 16 , Aug 5, 2011
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                        On 8/4/11 5:40 PM, "g2223060" <g2223060@...> wrote:

                        >I agree with you, Mark- I have been using that style in my own code.
                        >Probably why I haven't seen this error until the developer asked for my
                        >help with it :) Maybe we should just have a policy that you don't
                        >initialize in the declaration...

                        If you take that step, I hope you do so because you believe it is a good
                        policy, not because of a tool like JSLint.

                        Personally, fwiw, I think initializing to a literal in the declaration is
                        just fine, and separating var status = 'ready'; into two statements
                        doesn't help, but calling functions and doing calculations etc. is for
                        subsequent lines of code.

                        tom
                      • R. Mark Volkmann
                        One reason I like that style, declaring all local variables on one line and initializing them later, is that it reminds me of Smalltalk. ... R. Mark Volkmann
                        Message 11 of 16 , Aug 5, 2011
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                          One reason I like that style, declaring all local variables on one line and initializing them later, is that it reminds me of Smalltalk.

                          ---
                          R. Mark Volkmann
                          Object Computing, Inc.

                          On Aug 5, 2011, at 7:24 AM, Tom Worster <fsb@...> wrote:

                          > On 8/4/11 5:40 PM, "g2223060" <g2223060@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > >I agree with you, Mark- I have been using that style in my own code.
                          > >Probably why I haven't seen this error until the developer asked for my
                          > >help with it :) Maybe we should just have a policy that you don't
                          > >initialize in the declaration...
                          >
                          > If you take that step, I hope you do so because you believe it is a good
                          > policy, not because of a tool like JSLint.
                          >
                          > Personally, fwiw, I think initializing to a literal in the declaration is
                          > just fine, and separating var status = 'ready'; into two statements
                          > doesn't help, but calling functions and doing calculations etc. is for
                          > subsequent lines of code.
                          >
                          > tom
                          >
                          >


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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