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XBase - quality

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  • Oliver Keller
    Hi all, after being happy with my Airbase for years, I just shot myself an XBase at ebay. I just had to get my hands on the sequencer plus I decided to let
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 10, 2004
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      Hi all,


      after being happy with my Airbase for years, I just shot myself an XBase
      at ebay. I just had to get my hands on the sequencer plus I decided to
      let some metal double bass drum playing into my style of music ;)

      However, I´m somewhat disappointed with the overall mechanical quality :
      The pots are wiggling around by some millimeters, I have never seen any
      pot behave like that... Is this a pretty used machine or is it a feature ?

      Next thing is the 16 step pads - some of them need very hard pressure,
      especially 15/16.... sometimes it works, sometimes not... is this a
      known bug or did I get a machine that demands some work ?

      I´m not new to soldering, so exchanging parts is nothing I fear... just
      the question : do jomox deliver exchange parts ? What woudl be the price
      for the buttons / microswitches ? I didn´t open the uni yet, so I can´t
      tell how things are internally... Anyone who can share some knowlecge here ?


      Thanks in advance, cu l8er,


      ol!ver
    • Jeff Storm
      The step buttons are going to go bad. Mine are going bad after a good 3 or 4 years of use (only like 1 button) I think the pots would be the same way but
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 10, 2004
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        The step buttons are going to go bad.  Mine are going bad after a good 3 or 4 years of use (only like 1 button)  I think the pots would be the same way but rotary encoders from what I've seen aren't that hard to replace (not something I do personally).  I would say you got a older unit.  The seller should of told you about the buttons as the only way they could be in that shape is if he pressed them.  Its not a sudden thing. 
         
        Even with the sticky buttons its still a good piece of gear.  I just picked up a airbase to go with my xbase so we went in reverse order ;p 
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 9:39 AM
        Subject: [jomox] XBase - quality

        Hi all,


        after being happy with my Airbase for years, I just shot myself an XBase
        at ebay. I just had to get my hands on the sequencer plus I decided to
        let some metal double bass drum playing into my style of music ;)

        However, I´m somewhat disappointed with the overall mechanical quality :
        The pots are wiggling around by some millimeters, I have never seen any
        pot behave like that... Is this  a pretty used machine or is it a feature ?

        Next thing is the 16 step pads - some of them need very hard pressure,
        especially 15/16.... sometimes it works, sometimes not... is this a
        known bug or did I get a machine that demands some work ?

        I´m not new to soldering, so exchanging parts is nothing I fear... just
        the question : do jomox deliver exchange parts ? What woudl be the price
        for the buttons / microswitches ? I didn´t open the uni yet, so I can´t
        tell how things are internally... Anyone who can share some knowlecge here ?


        Thanks in advance, cu l8er,


        ol!ver

      • ALX002
        I admit that the buttons are not so good !!! But I ve tried to use some electonic spray on STEP Button..... and IT WORKS !!!!! So use a Bomb Spray : but use a
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 10, 2004
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          I admit that the buttons are not so good !!!

          But I've tried to use some electonic spray on STEP
          Button..... and IT WORKS !!!!!

          So use a Bomb Spray : but use a very good Electronical
          bomb spray for contacters and potars

          Use spray directly on top of the Buttons because the
          BUtton's main board is very difficult to access if you
          open the XBASE !!!!

          Alex






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        • Jeff Storm
          could you give us a product name? ... From: ALX002 To: jomox@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 2:35 PM Subject: Re: [jomox] XBase - quality I admit
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 10, 2004
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            could you give us a product name?
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: ALX002
            Sent: Saturday, July 10, 2004 2:35 PM
            Subject: Re: [jomox] XBase - quality

            I admit that the buttons are not so good !!!

            But I've tried to use some electonic spray on STEP
            Button..... and IT WORKS !!!!!

            So use a Bomb Spray : but use a very good Electronical
            bomb spray for contacters and potars

            Use spray directly on top of the Buttons because the
            BUtton's main board is very difficult to access if you
            open the XBASE !!!!

            Alex


                 

                 
                       
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          • ALX002
            ... you give us a product name? I use a ELECTRONIC BOMB SPRAY French :-) DEOXIT ( 15€ /180 ml ) Try to ask to an Electonical part vendor
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 10, 2004
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              --- Jeff Storm <jeff@...> a écrit : > could
              you give us a product name?


              I use a ELECTRONIC BOMB SPRAY French :-)

              DEOXIT ( 15€ /180 ml )


              Try to ask to an Electonical part vendor

              http://www.selectronic.fr/

              Alex







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            • Oliver Keller
              ... Definitely ! That´s why I favor renewal over resale... Would never let one of my jomoxes leave that studio until I´m starved ;) Later, ol!ver
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 11, 2004
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                Jeff Storm wrote:

                > Even with the sticky buttons its still a good piece of gear. I
                > just picked up a airbase to go with my xbase so we went in reverse
                > order ;p

                Definitely ! That´s why I favor renewal over resale... Would never let
                one of my jomoxes leave that studio until I´m starved ;)


                Later,

                ol!ver
              • Oliver Keller
                Hi Alex, ... I didn´t want to blow up my Xbase ;) I guess in France you call it Bomb spray, we call it Contact Spray over here. Since I´m living near the
                Message 7 of 13 , Jul 11, 2004
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                  Hi Alex,

                  >So use a Bomb Spray : but use a very good Electronical
                  >bomb spray for contacters and potars
                  >
                  >
                  I didn´t want to blow up my Xbase ;) I guess in France you call it Bomb
                  spray, we call it Contact Spray over here.

                  Since I´m living near the French border (Saarbrucken) I may even get
                  the brand you mentioned later. Where could I find that ? Is it available
                  in the supermarches or do I need to find an electronics dealer ?

                  From what I´ve heard in another forum, they say that Ballistol would do
                  a very good job, since some contact sprays only work for a short time,
                  then need another dose again - guess why :). But Ballistol is more of an
                  oil that can be used as gun oil oder disinfectant as well - I´m not so
                  sure if this advice is real or a "funny" joke...

                  >Use spray directly on top of the Buttons because the
                  >BUtton's main board is very difficult to access if you
                  >open the XBASE !!!!
                  >
                  Hm, I´ll open the box anyway to check for the loose pots... the axis is
                  moving about 3-4 mm or 5-10 degree, which gives the unit a very cheap
                  feeling - and that doesn´t match the sound quality... so there is
                  definitely something to be done about that.


                  l8ter dude,

                  ol!ver
                • jhno
                  ... the company that makes this is http://caig.com it is sold by innumerable electronics retailers. just google. long ago it was known as cramolin red , and
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jul 11, 2004
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                    >you give us a product name?
                    >
                    >I use a ELECTRONIC BOMB SPRAY French :-)
                    >
                    >DEOXIT ( 15* /180 ml )

                    the company that makes this is http://caig.com

                    it is sold by innumerable electronics retailers. just google.

                    long ago it was known as 'cramolin red', and is exceptionally useful to
                    clean up scratchy pots, connectors, and any surface prone to decay by
                    oxidation.

                    for the xbase, use the aerosol can if possible. there is not much room for
                    the fluid to get inside the pots and switches. the spray can gets in close
                    (with the skinny straw extension snout), and sends the solution in a burst,
                    hopefully penetrating to the inside. use shortest burst possible. it should
                    then spread on its own, but you should help it by working the button or
                    knob a few times.

                    you do not need to use much. also note that the spray can nozzle/tip can be
                    rotated to change the rate of output. i always use the lowest setting (turn
                    tip all the way to the left).

                    you have to take the knobs off to spray the stuff into the minute opening
                    between the case and the shaft. do only a few at a time... spray, turn the
                    knobs, wipe off excess residue with a lint-free sterile gauze applicator
                    recovery material or an old towel.

                    i just did all switches and all knobs, and wonder why i did not think of
                    this sooner... :)

                    a few stubborn keys (start/stop, steps) are now much more responsive.

                    knobs that only went to 126 now go to 127. remember, to adjust a value in
                    'absolute' knob mode instead of 'relative', hold down the accent key while
                    you turn the knob. then you can be certain you are seeing its true range.

                    de-oxit should be used with care. read and follow the directions. it can
                    interact with some plastics in a bad way, it can stain certain materials
                    such as wood.

                    i have not noticed any problems using it on the xbase as above. possibly it
                    has made the kick drum deeper and more powerful, and perhaps it has
                    enhanced the soundstage presented by the hihat section. this is most
                    impressive, as the hihats are monophonic. ymmv.

                    peace
                    suds
                  • ALX002
                    ... the company that makes this is http://caig.com it is sold by innumerable electronics retailers. just google. long ago it was known as cramolin red , and
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jul 11, 2004
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                      --- jhno <ear@...> a écrit :
                      ---------------------------------

                      the company that makes this is http://caig.com

                      it is sold by innumerable electronics retailers. just
                      google.

                      long ago it was known as 'cramolin red', and is
                      exceptionally useful to
                      clean up scratchy pots, connectors, and any surface
                      prone to decay by
                      oxidation.

                      for the xbase, use the aerosol can if possible. there
                      is not much room for
                      the fluid to get inside the pots and switches. the
                      spray can gets in close
                      (with the skinny straw extension snout), and sends the
                      solution in a burst,
                      hopefully penetrating to the inside. use shortest
                      burst possible. it should
                      then spread on its own, but you should help it by
                      working the button or
                      knob a few times.

                      you do not need to use much. also note that the spray
                      can nozzle/tip can be
                      rotated to change the rate of output. i always use the
                      lowest setting (turn
                      tip all the way to the left).

                      you have to take the knobs off to spray the stuff into
                      the minute opening
                      between the case and the shaft. do only a few at a
                      time... spray, turn the
                      knobs, wipe off excess residue with a lint-free
                      sterile gauze applicator
                      recovery material or an old towel.

                      i just did all switches and all knobs, and wonder why
                      i did not think of
                      this sooner... :)

                      a few stubborn keys (start/stop, steps) are now much
                      more responsive.

                      knobs that only went to 126 now go to 127. remember,
                      to adjust a value in
                      'absolute' knob mode instead of 'relative', hold down
                      the accent key while
                      you turn the knob. then you can be certain you are
                      seeing its true range.

                      de-oxit should be used with care. read and follow the
                      directions. it can
                      interact with some plastics in a bad way, it can stain
                      certain materials
                      such as wood.

                      i have not noticed any problems using it on the xbase
                      as above. possibly it
                      has made the kick drum deeper and more powerful, and
                      perhaps it has
                      enhanced the soundstage presented by the hihat
                      section. this is most
                      impressive, as the hihats are monophonic. ymmv.

                      peace
                      suds



                      HEHEHEH THANKS for THIS Message...... It is a very
                      very good lesson to use DESOXIT with our XBASES

                      ALEX






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                    • jhno
                      ... yes, but be careful as it is an unknown chemical that can react with things. when unsure as to its compatability to a situation, test it in some way that
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jul 12, 2004
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                        >HEHEHEH THANKS for THIS Message...... It is a very
                        >very good lesson to use DESOXIT with our XBASES

                        yes, but be careful as it is an unknown chemical that can react with
                        things. when unsure as to its compatability to a situation, test it in some
                        way that will not destroy your life if it goes wrong.

                        for example, i recklessly tried to restore a very nice penny and giles
                        fader with this treatment. this fader utilized a conductive plastic
                        surface; hence its phenomenal expense; hence its death by d5.

                        prevention would have been easy. penny and giles online mince no words:
                        clean these faders with only water. perhaps lukewarm water, with some mild
                        soap.

                        on a related note, caig's new 'mechanic-all' treatment seems an amazing
                        mechanical lubricant - not really for electronics, just sort of a
                        super-better-wd40.

                        enough OT from me. time to soap up the hi hats for another overdub.

                        DESUDSIT
                      • Jomox GmbH Jürgen Michaelis
                        Hello friends, ... I only can support what is written here...don t use these shitty contact sprays - only if it s a very soft tuner spray, and only very few
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jul 12, 2004
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                          Hello friends,

                          > for example, i recklessly tried to restore a very nice penny and giles
                          > fader with this treatment. this fader utilized a conductive plastic
                          > surface; hence its phenomenal expense; hence its death by d5.


                          > prevention would have been easy. penny and giles online mince no words:
                          > clean these faders with only water. perhaps lukewarm water, with some mild
                          > soap.

                          > on a related note, caig's new 'mechanic-all' treatment seems an amazing
                          > mechanical lubricant - not really for electronics, just sort of a
                          > super-better-wd40.

                          > enough OT from me. time to soap up the hi hats for another overdub.

                          > DESUDSIT




                          I only can support what is written here...don't use these shitty contact
                          sprays - only if it's a very soft tuner spray, and only very few
                          amounts!!!!. The best method is indeed putting the whole electronics apart
                          and softly wash the buttons PCB with water based mild cleansing tenside
                          solvent for dish washing...(Spueli in German:)) -No soap!!
                          Immediatly water it and dry with a fan after ceansing!!!!
                          This is, however, a job a tech should do.
                          This method is how I cleaned many times the rubber contacts of keyboards in
                          synthesizers. It works best and is the same way professional electronic
                          cleansing companies do.

                          As a technician, I have dealt with so many damadged switches and
                          contact-spray coated boards inside of units...they have agressive solvents
                          and they damadge even more than before...plus the positive effect may be of
                          short duration. The worst is contact spray for car mechanics!!!!

                          I think Philips has a good soft tuner spray...but I am not into that right
                          now.

                          A replacement Front Panel PCB costs 150 EUR plus shipment (plus VAT in
                          Europe)
                          That contains all buttons and pots and makes it a new device. It's the
                          strongly recommended solution for the guy with the "joystick" pots.
                          Sorry, we don't sell single red buttons as spare parts.


                          Best wishes,

                          Juergen Michaelis,

                          JoMoX GmbH
                          phone: +49 /30/61702573
                          www.jomox.de www.jayemsonic.de
                          -------------------------------------------------
                        • ALX002
                          150€ is expansive if we have to change PCB every 3 years My XBASE never quit my home and there are some STEP SWITCH which become hard to play after 3 years
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jul 12, 2004
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                            150€ is expansive if we have to change PCB every 3
                            years

                            My XBASE never quit my home and there are some STEP
                            SWITCH which become hard to play after 3 years ( I
                            bought a new XBASE)

                            In comparaison my TR909 is about 20 years old and it
                            works perfectly ( no scratch , all steps work good)

                            :-)

                            nice to see you Juergen

                            ALex


                            ---------------------------------------------------------------------
                            --- Jomox_GmbH_Jürgen_Michaelis <mich@...> a
                            écrit :

                            I only can support what is written here...don't use
                            these shitty contact
                            sprays - only if it's a very soft tuner spray, and
                            only very few
                            amounts!!!!. The best method is indeed putting the
                            whole electronics apart
                            and softly wash the buttons PCB with water based mild
                            cleansing tenside
                            solvent for dish washing...(Spueli in German:)) -No
                            soap!!
                            Immediatly water it and dry with a fan after
                            ceansing!!!!
                            This is, however, a job a tech should do.
                            This method is how I cleaned many times the rubber
                            contacts of keyboards in
                            synthesizers. It works best and is the same way
                            professional electronic
                            cleansing companies do.

                            As a technician, I have dealt with so many damadged
                            switches and
                            contact-spray coated boards inside of units...they
                            have agressive solvents
                            and they damadge even more than before...plus the
                            positive effect may be of
                            short duration. The worst is contact spray for car
                            mechanics!!!!

                            I think Philips has a good soft tuner spray...but I am
                            not into that right
                            now.

                            A replacement Front Panel PCB costs 150 EUR plus
                            shipment (plus VAT in
                            Europe)
                            That contains all buttons and pots and makes it a new
                            device. It's the
                            strongly recommended solution for the guy with the
                            "joystick" pots.
                            Sorry, we don't sell single red buttons as spare
                            parts.


                            Best wishes,

                            Juergen Michaelis,








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                          • jhno
                            the TR909 s buttons are much larger, so i would expect them to be a bit more robust. the xbase buttons can become stubborn, but this is pretty typical. per
                            Message 13 of 13 , Jul 12, 2004
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                              the TR909's buttons are much larger, so i would expect them to be a bit
                              more robust. the xbase buttons can become stubborn, but this is pretty
                              typical.


                              per juergen's post, i would modify my recommendation:

                              1. first try compressed air and see if that improves the switches. just a
                              short burst with the straw at the button's edge, and maybe one on the other
                              side.

                              2. if this does not help enough, consider paying a technician to conduct
                              standard long-term maintenance cleaning - taking apart the pots and
                              cleaning the switches. the xbase is complicated inside and this sort of
                              deep operation should only be undertaken by someone with plenty of
                              experience.

                              3. alternatively, applying a de-oxidizer to the problematic components
                              might improve them. the risk and longevity of this treatment are not known.
                              for my part, i will be sure to post if something goes sour.


                              do not spray cleaners or solvents indiscriminantly into the box.


                              the caig de-oxit formula i described is not designed to function as a
                              cleaner or solvent. it specifically addresses metal oxidation and should
                              not be expected to work like a contact cleaner.

                              always use as little as possible. it is very clean, and does not leave the
                              residue juergen refers to. although, the spray can version has some
                              additional carriers that scatter around. for this reason, in hindsight, it
                              might be better to try the needle applicator or the 2ml tube which have the
                              solution at 100% concentration. hopefully the spray can is not necessary.

                              however, having already used the spray can, i took a peek inside my xbase
                              and could not detect any residue on or around the pots or switches. my
                              inspection was limited to peeking between circuit board layers with a
                              flashlight.


                              finally, in case it was not totally clear - i mentioned the 'mechanic-all'
                              lubricant only as an aside, because caig makes it and it seems much better
                              than typical 3-in-1 oil or wd40 for crude, general purpose mechanical
                              lubrication. it is not intended for electronics at all. it did wonders for
                              an old kenmore sewing machine i bought (all metal, burly construction).

                              hold the suds
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