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Re: [John Muir Trail] Gear & Food for JMT Hike from July 24 to August 15 -- Please comment

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  • John Ladd
    Food plan at the link showed only 1 day, so it is hard to tell, but I note the following 1) your e-mail suggests you think your plan averages 110 calories per
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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      Food plan at the link showed only 1 day, so it is hard to tell, but I note the following

      1) your e-mail suggests you think your plan averages 110 calories per oz - you can do better than that if you are willing to drop low-calorie per oz foods and add higher ones. I can usually get 150-170 calories per oz.

      2) you list sugar at 150 calories per oz.  I think that's wrong - 110 is about right

      3) You can add fats and oils at 220+ calories per oz. Add clarified butter (ghee) or coconut oil to your cereal in the morning and olive oil or rendered bacon fat to your food at night.  Drop some of the lower calorie foods.  E.g., the only thing you really need in the Gatorade is the salt, and you can add that to your food.

      4) any form of nuts tend to be high calorie (because they contain fats) - peanut  butter, almond butter, macadamia butter. Also think of things you can add fats and oils to, like dried hummus or dried tabbouleh

      5) 3000 calories per day sounds high to me but you can find calorie need calculators on the web that will be specific to your age and weight.  I find I can can consume 500-1000 calories per day less than I am burning without much hunger and minimal weight loss (1 to 2 lbs per week).  But people are very different in this regard, so do what works for you.  If you haven't counted calories before and paid attention to the actual hunger/energy results, you probably do want to guess high and 3,000 calories per day is not crazy for a 46 year old guy (particularly with a 50 lb pack).

      I don't really have any major comments about the gear list - it looks within reason to me - there are some items you could do lighter (e.g., the tent) but you are getting benefit from the things that are quasi-optional (e.g., the Spot beacon, camera, fishing gear).  There are lots of online sources of info about lighter weight choices, but every saving in weight below 25 lbs of baseweight generally comes with compromises.  Barbara K may have some good suggestions for you but don't overdo the ultralight thing. Roleigh put a very useful gear list on the groups' links area that could generate some ideas for you.

      My few thoughts, all minor but maybe they will cumulatively save you a few lbs:

      I'd leave the steripen at home.  The water quality on the JMT is quite high and chemical treatment is easily adequate (if not overkill).

      A good Suunto wrist altimeter-watch is very helpful in navigation once you learn to use it correctly, especially if you carry the Wenk data points, which as Roleigh mentions are in the group's Files area (correlates altitude with milepoint).  It replaces the watch, so does not add weight.

      The GPS is not needed.  Not even if you ignore my suggestion on the altimeter.  Save it for trips with greater navigational problems.

      Leave the charger at home and maybe bring an extra battery (the GPS is probably the only energy hog in your list and you don't need it). 

      Maps and compass are highly desirable, but you can get by with a low-weight small compass that just gives you a general sense of directions (you won't be triangulating things - you just want to know roughly where North is). 

      You don't need the bear bell.

      You don't need the clothesline, since you are bringing lots of cord (you probably don't need anything like the 50 ft you list unless you are hanging some food south of MTR).

      You could bring less underwear and clothing changes.  You can wash clothes on the trail (using your bucket away from the streams).

      I'd bring more than the 2 pair of socks you list.  You need to keep your feet in good shape.

      I'd substitute a rain jacket and pants for the cape.  Rain often comes with wind in the Sierra.  I've been blown over when a cape/poncho/backpack cover has turned into a spinnaker.

      The Spot will be a great comfort to your family (but make sure you thoroughly read all the online FAQs on proper use as your family can get anxious if they fail to get OK signals because you used it wrong).

      I'd bring 2-3 golf pencils - fancy pens have a way of failing.

      I didn't see soap listed.  Travelling with a companion makes hand hygiene very important as you can easily infect each other.  Don't rely on alcohol sterilizer - it is famously bad at getting germs off dirty hands and works only once the hands are visibly clean.  Mostly rely on soap, use other things as a supplement only.  Especially use soap after use of your trowel and TP!

      Lightweight (competitive "Speedo" type) swim suit is nice.  Both if you get a chance to swim and to wear when you are washing everything else.  Underwear substitute if you have problematic GI issues.

      I'd pay more attention to the weight of the consumables.  You won't need to carry 2 liters of water at a time very often on the JMT (particularly not this year) and you are carrying a lot of fuel weight due to the choice of a alcohol stove (low stove weight but high fuel weight because alcohol is so inefficient). Mostly, I'd think more about food choices to see if you can get closer to a lb. of food per day.  55 lbs is a lot of weight to carry headed into the series of passes - Muir, Mather, Pinchot - even for a youngster like you (I'm 64).  If I understand it right, you are carrying 17+ lbs of food leaving MTR (10 days at 1.7 per day), and more attention to caloric need and food choices could get that down to 10-12.

      John Curran Ladd
      1616 Castro Street
      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
      415-648-9279
    • John Ladd
      Revised thought on Manfr3ed s caloric needs. Carry 3000 calories per day early on your hike and send 3000 calories per day to MTR. See if you eat it all in
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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        Revised thought on Manfr3ed's caloric needs.

        Carry 3000 calories per day early on your hike and send 3000 calories per day to MTR.  See if you eat it all in the first half of the trail.  Weigh yourself before you leave home and at Vermillion (good scale there).  If you do happily eat it all and are still losing a lb per week or more, continue to carry 3000 calories per day out of MTR (and maybe a little extra food from the donations box).  If you can't eat it all and/or your weight is stable or increasing, consider leaving some of your MTR re-supply in the donations box at MTR.  If it isn't used by another hiker (Bob Shattuck may claim it if he passes MTR after you), it will be donated to a homeless shelter thanks to the good people at MTR.

        Lots of people do this, so you can just plan to do it.

        Note that some people, particularly those with very little body fat, tend to get hungrier after the first 10 days of hiking.  The same amount of food that keeps you full on days 1-10 may feel like too little food on days 11-20.

        John Curran Ladd
        1616 Castro Street
        San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
        415-648-9279
      • manfred_kopisch
        Hi Barbara, You can click on the link for my gear list
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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          Hi Barbara,

          You can click on the link for my gear list to see the weight for individual items as well as groups of items. Right now I have 6.5 lbs on my body (clothes, trecking poles, etc.),  26 lbs on my back (pack + gear), and 22.5 lbs in consumables (food, water, fuel).

          I'm not sure whether we will catch up to you - our plan brings us to Reds Meadow on 7/2 -- but who knows. You will recognize us by the pins on our hats :D. Thanks for sending them so promptly.

          Manfred

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Barbara Karagosian <barbara@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Manfred,
          > Thanks for sharing your gear list. I can make a few suggestions that might help cut some weight. 55lbs is an awful lot! Is that including clothes you're wearing? I usually don't count those. Once I get home I'll pass along some ideas! Cheers!
          > May see you out there. We're leaving 7/25 from Reds.
          >
          > Barbara
          >
          > On Jun 30, 2010, at 1:38 PM, "manfred_kopisch" manfred@... wrote:
          >
          > > All,
          > >
          > > I'm a brandnew member to this group. My son (15) and I (46) are going together on the JMT (N->S). He is taking me along on his fundraising walk for his Eagle Scout Project. You can read about our day to day hike plan, our preparation hikes, his gear list, etc. on his website Daniel's Eagle Scout Project.
          > >
          > > I put together a gear list and a food plan for myself and uploaded both to this site. I would appreciate if you could comment on both. My gear list shows right now a maximum weight of 55 lbs right after resupply at Muir Trail Ranch. That is a lot to carry. So I'm open to suggestions. Hiking faster and saving weight by carrying less food is not an option, because my son wants to enjoy the whole trail and go fishing every day.
          > >
          > > I'm planning to live with 3,000 calories per day and supplement the food with any trout we might catch. Here is my food plan that requires roughly 1.7 lbs per day. Any feedback on this is also welcome.
          > >
          > > Thanks for all your input and good luck with your JMT hikes this year.
          > >
          > > Manfred
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >

        • Roleigh Martin
          Good points John. Myself, I eat about 1900 calories a day on the hike and lose 3/4th of a lb of fat per day which if my memory serves me right is about 3900
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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            Good points John.  Myself, I eat about 1900 calories a day on the hike and lose 3/4th of a lb of fat per day which if my memory serves me right is about 3900 calories a day or so consumed for energy use (2,000 roughly speaking from utlilized body fat).  I find I often can't eat all the food I pack which again is <= 1900 calories a day.
          • Roleigh Martin
            Continuing, but it is important go gain muscle on the hike so I bring plenty of protein and healthy fat, no so many carbs (say about 30% carbs). Ideally one
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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              Continuing, but it is important go gain muscle on the hike so I bring plenty of protein and healthy fat, no so many carbs (say about 30% carbs).  Ideally one should have a BMI analyses done before the hike and after the hike and see no loss of muscle on the hike, only a loss of fat and if you can see a gain of muscle (not just percentage wise but pound wise, that is ideal).

              On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
              Good points John.  Myself, I eat about 1900 calories a day on the hike and lose 3/4th of a lb of fat per day which if my memory serves me right is about 3900 calories a day or so consumed for energy use (2,000 roughly speaking from utlilized body fat).  I find I often can't eat all the food I pack which again is <= 1900 calories a day.

            • manfred_kopisch
              Roleigh, Thanks for all the helpful links. My son has shown me already some -- like backpackinglight.com Right now I have a gear weight of 26 lbs. I guess I
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                Roleigh,

                Thanks for all the helpful links. My son has shown me already some -- like backpackinglight.com

                Right now I have a gear weight of 26 lbs. I guess I could get closer to your 16 lbs by throwing out the fishing gear (-1.5 lbs), GPS, charger and extra batteries (- 1 lbs), exchange my SteriPen + Accessories with AquaMira drops (-1 lbs) and exchange my Osprey with an UL backpack (-3 lbs). But the purpose of our hike includes fishing every day and showing the hiked track with elevation profile afterwards. My wife and our other son will come with us to Reds Meadow
                and until then water treatment beyond AquaMira is a definite must. I know my backpack and what I can carry in it. With an UL backpack I'm not so sure how it would be for me with a big bear canister in there.

                Resupllying at Kearsage Lakes sounds like a great idea. That would cut the weigth out of MTR considerably. How much does that cost?

                Enjoy your hike!

                Manfred
                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                >
                > Manfred,
                >
                > I have a very detailed gear list (plus a budget alternative) showing how
                > your JMT base gear weight can be 16 lbs or less (pack, pack contents,
                > including bear cannister, minus food and water). I'm doing my 3rd JMT hike
                > this summer in 2 weeks. It will be my 10th year in the High Sierra (I did
                > the High Sierra trail repeatedly the years before that).
                >
                > http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/profile.html?u=marti124
                >
                > (bottom left is "my gear list").
                >
                > On the links page for this group (I can't visit them at work) are detailed
                > spreadsheets of food plans, what to send to each supply point. One of the
                > key ways to keep weight down is to use multiple supply points (Toulumne
                > Meadows, Reds Meadow, Muir Trail Ranch, SequoiaKingsCanyon Packers at either
                > OnvionValley Trailhead or Kearsarge Lakes).
                >
                > We also have great file uploads of the appendix for Lizzy Wenks fantastic
                > book as well. Lizzy was gracious enough to provide me permission to get
                > that converted into an uploadable Excel format, and so was her publisher. I
                > recommend her book to you. It shows all the camp sites, junctions, and
                > passes on the trail as you hike.
                >
                > My typical fully loaded pack weight will be about 22-25 pounds with food and
                > water. I'm 60 years old.
                >
                > Have fun but for sure, travel light and safe.
                >
                > Also, consider joining BackPackingLight.com -- they have a bunch of great
                > people with a lot of them fanatically into the science of the sport -- many
                > of them with PhDs in Engineering, etc. Great scientific research on
                > ultralight fabrics, etc.
                >
              • Roleigh Martin
                Contact the packers email and phone -- sometimes they are slow with email: Berners Pack Outfits Pine Creek Pack Station PO Box 968 Bishop, CA 93515 Tel:
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                  Contact the packers email and phone -- sometimes they are slow with email:

                  Berners' Pack Outfits
                  Pine Creek Pack Station
                  PO Box 968
                  Bishop, CA 93515
                  Tel: 760-387-2797
                  Email: pinecreekps@...

                  Sequoia Kings Pack Trains
                  PO Box 209
                  Independence, CA 93526
                  Tel: 800-962-0775
                  Email: bernerspack@...

                  Use both addresses, it is the same people.  If you hike 5 miles to the Trailhead at OnionValley TH, the cost is much less and it's a nice easy pass, Kearsarge Pass.  If you come over Glenn Pass and camp at Kearsarge Lakes, plan to stay there 2 nights and during the day hike up and over to the TH to get your supplies.  It's a beautiful lake to enjoy swimming in too.  Fishing too.

                  I used them last year and will again this year.  Tell Denice I recommended them.

                  Roleigh

                  On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 6:29 PM, manfred_kopisch <manfred@...> wrote:
                  Roleigh,

                  Thanks for all the helpful links. My son has shown me already some -- like backpackinglight.com

                  Right now I have a gear weight of 26 lbs. I guess I could get closer to your 16 lbs by throwing out the fishing gear (-1.5 lbs), GPS, charger and extra batteries (- 1 lbs), exchange my SteriPen + Accessories with AquaMira drops (-1 lbs) and exchange my Osprey with an UL backpack (-3 lbs). But the purpose of our hike includes fishing every day and showing the hiked track with elevation profile afterwards. My wife and our other son will come with us to Reds Meadow
                  and until then water treatment beyond AquaMira is a definite must. I know my backpack and what I can carry in it. With an UL backpack I'm not so sure how it would be for me with a big bear canister in there.

                  Resupllying at Kearsage Lakes sounds like a great idea. That would cut the weigth out of MTR considerably. How much does that cost?

                  Enjoy your hike!

                  Manfred
                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Manfred,
                  >
                  > I have a very detailed gear list (plus a budget alternative) showing how
                  > your JMT base gear weight can be 16 lbs or less (pack, pack contents,
                  > including bear cannister, minus food and water).  I'm doing my 3rd JMT hike
                  > this summer in 2 weeks.  It will be my 10th year in the High Sierra (I did
                  > the High Sierra trail repeatedly the years before that).
                  >
                  > http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/profile.html?u=marti124
                  >
                  > (bottom left is "my gear list").
                  >
                  > On the links page for this group (I can't visit them at work) are detailed
                  > spreadsheets of food plans, what to send to each supply point.  One of the
                  > key ways to keep weight down is to use multiple supply points (Toulumne
                  > Meadows, Reds Meadow, Muir Trail Ranch, SequoiaKingsCanyon Packers at either
                  > OnvionValley Trailhead or Kearsarge Lakes).
                  >
                  > We also have great file uploads of the appendix for Lizzy Wenks fantastic
                  > book as well.  Lizzy was gracious enough to provide me permission to get
                  > that converted into an uploadable Excel format, and so was her publisher.  I
                  > recommend her book to you.  It shows all the camp sites, junctions, and
                  > passes on the trail as you hike.
                  >
                  > My typical fully loaded pack weight will be about 22-25 pounds with food and
                  > water.  I'm 60 years old.
                  >
                  > Have fun but for sure, travel light and safe.
                  >
                  > Also, consider joining BackPackingLight.com -- they have a bunch of great
                  > people with a lot of them fanatically into the science of the sport -- many
                  > of them with PhDs in Engineering, etc.  Great scientific research on
                  > ultralight fabrics, etc.
                  >




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                • manfred_kopisch
                  Hi Ed, My son has his gear list on his website at his link Daniel s gear list. He is right now at
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                    Hi Ed,

                    My son has his gear list on his website at his link Daniel's gear list. He is right now at 20 lbs on his back (pack + gear) + 22.5 lbs in consumables. I should clearly give him our tent and then we would both be at 23 lbs :>

                    Enjoy your hike this year!

                    Manfred


                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, ed_rodriguez52@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Say Manfred, I was wondering what is your son carrying. Like what Barbara said I don't count what am wearing or my trekking poles or shoes. With your tent I will have your son carry the poles and rain fly that goes to your tent. I will be carrying 40 to 45lb that with about 20lb of food. One of the problem that I ran into this year planning is money. I could have cut about 5lbs (tent, sleeping bag). Good luck and have a safe journey
                    > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: "manfred_kopisch" manfred@...
                    > Sender: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:38:56
                    > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                    > Reply-To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Gear & Food for JMT Hike from July 24 to August 15 -- Please comment
                    >
                    >
                    > All,
                    >
                    > I'm a brandnew member to this group. My son (15) and I (46) are going
                    > together on the JMT (N->S). He is taking me along on his fundraising
                    > walk for his Eagle Scout Project. You can read about our day to day hike
                    > plan, our preparation hikes, his gear list, etc. on his website
                    > Daniel's Eagle Scout Project.
                    > <http://daniels-eagle-scout-project.webs.com/>
                    >
                    > I put together a gear list and a food plan for myself and uploaded both
                    > to this site. I would appreciate if you could comment on both. My gear
                    > list
                    > <http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QKIrTPHekaK26g8YPWFGnMLgF1bPTWPQmeYfmNF0G_\
                    > PEdQC3_ZlRU69CCmYkDAOe-h_SPU_Y4xIQ3bk2cs8si0rbxbPbZCc5D06s7gc/Gear%20lis\
                    > ts/Gear%20List%20for%20JMT.pdf> shows right now a maximum weight of 55
                    > lbs right after resupply at Muir Trail Ranch. That is a lot to carry. So
                    > I'm open to suggestions. Hiking faster and saving weight by carrying
                    > less food is not an option, because my son wants to enjoy the whole
                    > trail and go fishing every day.
                    >
                    > I'm planning to live with 3,000 calories per day and supplement the food
                    > with any trout we might catch. Here is my food plan
                    > <http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QKIrTLb_r4e26g8Y5UMpf7iF9dv8ZrQwqcMeWxxeQg\
                    > 6mC_dhe-HuYflSlCdH9hMYS4kJM_M_49HY3ye5ksBp0e_ABzttcvobn13V-CU/Food%20and\
                    > %20trail%20cooking/Food%20Plan%20for%20JMT.pdf> that requires roughly
                    > 1.7 lbs per day. Any feedback on this is also welcome.
                    >
                    > Thanks for all your input and good luck with your JMT hikes this year.
                    >
                    > Manfred
                    >

                  • manfred_kopisch
                    Hi John, Thanks for the detailed reply. The consumables is clearly an area where I can save some more weight. I m aware that the GPS is not needed for
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                      Hi John,

                      Thanks for the detailed reply. The consumables is clearly an area where I can save some more weight. I'm aware that the GPS is not needed for navigation, but we would like to have our actual tracks recorded and analyze them later. Thus, we have the need for the charger to supply the GPS with fresh batteries every day.

                      I actually have soap (Wilderness Wash from Sea-to-Summit) with a weight of 1.65 oz on my handwritten list and must have missed it when I put everything into an Excel spreadsheet.

                      This will be an interesting journey ...

                      Thanks again,

                      Manfred

                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Food plan at the link showed only 1 day, so it is hard to tell, but I note
                      > the following
                      >
                      > 1) your e-mail suggests you think your plan averages 110 calories per oz -
                      > you can do better than that if you are willing to drop low-calorie per oz
                      > foods and add higher ones. I can usually get 150-170 calories per oz.
                      >
                      > 2) you list sugar at 150 calories per oz. I think that's wrong - 110 is
                      > about right
                      >
                      > 3) You can add fats and oils at 220+ calories per oz. Add clarified butter
                      > (ghee) or coconut oil to your cereal in the morning and olive oil or
                      > rendered bacon fat to your food at night. Drop some of the lower calorie
                      > foods. E.g., the only thing you really need in the Gatorade is the salt,
                      > and you can add that to your food.
                      >
                      > 4) any form of nuts tend to be high calorie (because they contain fats) -
                      > peanut butter, almond butter, macadamia butter. Also think of things you
                      > can add fats and oils to, like dried hummus or dried tabbouleh
                      >
                      > 5) 3000 calories per day sounds high to me but you can find calorie need
                      > calculators on the web that will be specific to your age and weight. I find
                      > I can can consume 500-1000 calories per day less than I am burning without
                      > much hunger and minimal weight loss (1 to 2 lbs per week). But people are
                      > very different in this regard, so do what works for you. If you haven't
                      > counted calories before and paid attention to the actual hunger/energy
                      > results, you probably do want to guess high and 3,000 calories per day is
                      > not crazy for a 46 year old guy (particularly with a 50 lb pack).
                      >
                      > I don't really have any *major *comments about the gear list - it looks
                      > within reason to me - there are some items you could do lighter (e.g., the
                      > tent) but you are getting benefit from the things that are quasi-optional
                      > (e.g., the Spot beacon, camera, fishing gear). There are lots of online
                      > sources of info about lighter weight choices, but every saving in weight
                      > below 25 lbs of baseweight generally comes with compromises. Barbara K may
                      > have some good suggestions for you but don't overdo the ultralight thing.
                      > Roleigh put a very useful gear list on the groups' links area that could
                      > generate some ideas for you.
                      >
                      > My few thoughts, all minor but maybe they will cumulatively save you a few
                      > lbs:
                      >
                      > I'd leave the steripen at home. The water quality on the JMT is quite high
                      > and chemical treatment is easily adequate (if not overkill).
                      >
                      > A good Suunto wrist altimeter-watch is very helpful in navigation once you
                      > learn to use it correctly, especially if you carry the Wenk data points,
                      > which as Roleigh mentions are in the group's Files area (correlates altitude
                      > with milepoint). It replaces the watch, so does not add weight.
                      >
                      > The GPS is not needed. Not even if you ignore my suggestion on the
                      > altimeter. Save it for trips with greater navigational problems.
                      >
                      > Leave the charger at home and maybe bring an extra battery (the GPS is
                      > probably the only energy hog in your list and you don't need it).
                      >
                      > Maps and compass are highly desirable, but you can get by with a low-weight
                      > small compass that just gives you a general sense of directions (you won't
                      > be triangulating things - you just want to know roughly where North is).
                      >
                      > You don't need the bear bell.
                      >
                      > You don't need the clothesline, since you are bringing lots of cord (you
                      > probably don't need anything like the 50 ft you list unless you are hanging
                      > some food south of MTR).
                      >
                      > You could bring less underwear and clothing changes. You can wash clothes
                      > on the trail (using your bucket away from the streams).
                      >
                      > I'd bring more than the 2 pair of socks you list. You need to keep your
                      > feet in good shape.
                      >
                      > I'd substitute a rain jacket and pants for the cape. Rain often comes with
                      > wind in the Sierra. I've been blown over when a cape/poncho/backpack cover
                      > has turned into a spinnaker.
                      >
                      > The Spot will be a great comfort to your family (but make sure you
                      > thoroughly read all the online FAQs on proper use as your family can get
                      > anxious if they fail to get OK signals because you used it wrong).
                      >
                      > I'd bring 2-3 golf pencils - fancy pens have a way of failing.
                      >
                      > I didn't see soap listed. Travelling with a companion makes hand hygiene
                      > very important as you can easily infect each other. Don't rely on alcohol
                      > sterilizer - it is famously bad at getting germs off dirty hands and works
                      > only once the hands are visibly clean. Mostly rely on soap, use other
                      > things as a supplement only. Especially use soap after use of your trowel
                      > and TP!
                      >
                      > Lightweight (competitive "Speedo" type) swim suit is nice. Both if you get
                      > a chance to swim and to wear when you are washing everything else.
                      > Underwear substitute if you have problematic GI issues.
                      >
                      > I'd pay more attention to the weight of the consumables. You won't need to
                      > carry 2 liters of water at a time very often on the JMT (particularly not
                      > this year) and you are carrying a lot of fuel weight due to the choice of a
                      > alcohol stove (low stove weight but high fuel weight because alcohol is so
                      > inefficient). Mostly, I'd think more about food choices to see if you can
                      > get closer to a lb. of food per day. 55 lbs is a lot of weight to carry
                      > headed into the series of passes - Muir, Mather, Pinchot - even for a
                      > youngster like you (I'm 64). If I understand it right, you are carrying 17+
                      > lbs of food leaving MTR (10 days at 1.7 per day), and more attention to
                      > caloric need and food choices could get that down to 10-12.
                      >
                      > John Curran Ladd
                      > 1616 Castro Street
                      > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                      > 415-648-9279
                      >
                    • manfred_kopisch
                      Good idea! I m more than willing to donate food to the bin if I don t have to carry it out of MTR. And the bin might be a good place to swap some things if I
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                        Good idea! I'm more than willing to donate food to the bin if I don't have to carry it out of MTR. And the bin might be a good place to swap some things if I get tired of my diet.

                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Revised thought on Manfr3ed's caloric needs.
                        >
                        > Carry 3000 calories per day early on your hike and send 3000 calories per
                        > day to MTR. See if you eat it all in the first half of the trail. Weigh
                        > yourself before you leave home and at Vermillion (good scale there). If you
                        > do happily eat it all and are still losing a lb per week or more, continue
                        > to carry 3000 calories per day out of MTR (and maybe a little extra food
                        > from the donations box). If you can't eat it all and/or your weight is
                        > stable or increasing, consider leaving some of your MTR re-supply in the
                        > donations box at MTR. If it isn't used by another hiker (Bob Shattuck may
                        > claim it if he passes MTR after you), it will be donated to a homeless
                        > shelter thanks to the good people at MTR.
                        >
                        > Lots of people do this, so you can just plan to do it.
                        >
                        > Note that some people, particularly those with very little body fat, tend to
                        > get hungrier after the first 10 days of hiking. The same amount of food
                        > that keeps you full on days 1-10 may feel like too little food on days
                        > 11-20.
                        >
                        > John Curran Ladd
                        > 1616 Castro Street
                        > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                        > 415-648-9279
                        >
                      • manfred_kopisch
                        I could easily give up 10 lbs of fat and even 15 lbs, but I don t want to overdo it. After all I m not going on this hike as a special diet. My current food
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                          I could easily give up 10 lbs of fat and even 15 lbs, but I don't want to overdo it. After all I'm not going on this hike as a special diet.

                          My current food plan might be to heavy on carbs. I have 1.5 lbs in food per day (with packaging I get to 1.7 lbs).
                          My daily 680 g of food contain

                          • Fat - 128 g (18.8%)
                          • Carbs - 384 g (56.5%)
                          • Fiber - 38 g (5.6%)
                          • Protein - 94 g (13.8%)

                          What would be a recommended distribution for a JMT hike?

                          Manfred

                           

                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Continuing, but it is important go gain muscle on the hike so I bring plenty
                          > of protein and healthy fat, no so many carbs (say about 30% carbs). Ideally
                          > one should have a BMI analyses done before the hike and after the hike and
                          > see no loss of muscle on the hike, only a loss of fat and if you can see a
                          > gain of muscle (not just percentage wise but pound wise, that is ideal).
                          >
                          > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Roleigh Martin roleigh@... wrote:
                          >
                          > > Good points John. Myself, I eat about 1900 calories a day on the hike and
                          > > lose 3/4th of a lb of fat per day which if my memory serves me right is
                          > > about 3900 calories a day or so consumed for energy use (2,000 roughly
                          > > speaking from utlilized body fat). I find I often can't eat all the food I
                          > > pack which again is <= 1900 calories a day.
                          > >
                          >

                        • John Ladd
                          Roleigh I had the same experience. I used to make myself carry 2400-2700 calories per day. But I never was able to make myself eat it all, even trying hard.
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                            Roleigh

                            I had the same experience.  I used to make myself carry 2400-2700 calories per day.  But I never was able to make myself eat it all, even trying hard.  I'd end up giving away food.  I'm now pretty sure that I can get by just fine on about the same as you carry (1900 or 2000).  Although I think my body must use fewer calories than yours, probably because I'm older.  I lose only 1-2 lbs per week at 2000 consumed, which I assume means I burn 2500-3000 calories per day. 1 lb of burned body fat equals 3500 calories is the usual formula, which is essentially the same as consumed fat (rendered bacon fat at 225 calorie per oz x 16 = 3600 per lb.)  It's just chemistry, after all.  That's why you can be 500-1000 calories per day short (3500-7000 per week) and only lose 1-2 lbs per week.  (Winter hiking is a different story - I need at least 2500 calories per day)

                            John Curran Ladd
                            1616 Castro Street
                            San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                            415-648-9279


                            On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 4:18 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                             

                            Good points John.  Myself, I eat about 1900 calories a day on the hike and lose 3/4th of a lb of fat per day which if my memory serves me right is about 3900 calories a day or so consumed for energy use (2,000 roughly speaking from utlilized body fat)


                          • John Ladd
                            I m philosophically kind of anti-ultralight, so I love it when people decide to carry extra weight just because they like something. I think it is usually the
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                              I'm philosophically kind of anti-ultralight, so I love it when people decide to carry extra weight just because they like something.  I think it is usually the right judgment, though as you get older and weight becomes harder you may find that you no longer need things you once needed (I don't carry a camera anymore.)  

                              On your GPS point, one of the reasons I like my Spot is that I transfer my locations onto a Gmail map at the end of my trip to track at least my lunches and campsites, and occasionally just some place I want to remember later (e.g., devil's washbowl several miles below the JMT)  I can certainly understand wanting  a more detailed record.

                              Sorry to sound like a "scold" about the soap but glad to hear you carry some.  I think Giardia gets unfairly blamed for a lot of problems that are actually poor hand hygiene and I know that there are JMT hikers who think they can use hand sanitizer as a soap substitute (and it really isn't).

                              John Curran Ladd
                              1616 Castro Street
                              San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                              415-648-9279


                              On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 4:45 PM, manfred_kopisch <manfred@...> wrote:
                               

                              Hi John,

                              Thanks for the detailed reply. The consumables is clearly an area where I can save some more weight. I'm aware that the GPS is not needed for navigation, but we would like to have our actual tracks recorded and analyze them later. Thus, we have the need for the charger to supply the GPS with fresh batteries every day.
                              ...
                              I actually have soap (Wilderness Wash from Sea-to-Summit) with a weight of 1.65 oz on my handwritten list and must have missed it when I put everything into an Excel spreadsheet.


                            • John Ladd
                              Protein - at least 10% of calories - probably a bit less than optimum, but not enough to do any real damage Fat - as much as you can handle. I personally go
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                                Protein - at least 10% of calories - probably a bit less than optimum, but not enough to do any real damage

                                Fat - as much as you can handle.  I personally go for about 50% of my calories form fat.  So fats (and oils) are about 33% of my weight since fat is about 2x as energy dense as protein and carbs so 50% of the calories come from .33 lbs per day and 50% of my calories come from .66 lbs per day of protein and carbs). It is NOT all added fat/oil - lots of things are naturally high on fats and oils (e.g., nuts and cheeses). The more fat/oil you can take, the lighter your load. I asked my M.D. about this and she was totally unconcerned as long as my off-trail diet was a healthy one.  Sje said to concentrate on healthy diet for 11 months and let myself eat a lot of fat for 1.

                                Carbs - everything else

                                Fiber - for me, 25 grams is plenty and I can probably do less for a hike if I'm good about it the rest of the time

                                Downside is that 50% of calories from fat can make my GI tract react poorly.  I take daily Immodium as a preventative and carry extra in case of need.

                                PS: I found this online

                                The standard method used by nutritionists to estimate our minimum daily protein requirement is to multiply the body weight in kilograms by .8, or weight in pounds by .37. This is the number of grams of protein that should be the daily minimum. According to this method, a person weighing 150 lbs. should eat 55 grams of protein per day, a 200-pound person should get 74 grams, and a 250-pound person, 92 grams.

                                For me 180 lbs times .37 = 67 grams of protein = 268 grams of protein (at 4 cal/gm) = about 13% of my carried 2000 calories.  So it works out about right.

                                John Curran Ladd
                                1616 Castro Street
                                San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                415-648-9279


                                On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 5:08 PM, manfred_kopisch <manfred@...> wrote:
                                 

                                I could easily give up 10 lbs of fat and even 15 lbs, but I don't want to overdo it. After all I'm not going on this hike as a special diet.

                                My current food plan might be to heavy on carbs. I have 1.5 lbs in food per day (with packaging I get to 1.7 lbs).
                                My daily 680 g of food contain

                                • Fat - 128 g (18.8%)
                                • Carbs - 384 g (56.5%)
                                • Fiber - 38 g (5.6%)
                                • Protein - 94 g (13.8%)

                                What would be a recommended distribution for a JMT hike?

                                Manfred

                                 

                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Continuing, but it is important go gain muscle on the hike so I bring plenty
                                > of protein and healthy fat, no so many carbs (say about 30% carbs). Ideally
                                > one should have a BMI analyses done before the hike and after the hike and
                                > see no loss of muscle on the hike, only a loss of fat and if you can see a
                                > gain of muscle (not just percentage wise but pound wise, that is ideal).
                                >
                                > On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 6:18 PM, Roleigh Martin roleigh@... wrote:
                                >
                                > > Good points John. Myself, I eat about 1900 calories a day on the hike and
                                > > lose 3/4th of a lb of fat per day which if my memory serves me right is
                                > > about 3900 calories a day or so consumed for energy use (2,000 roughly
                                > > speaking from utlilized body fat). I find I often can't eat all the food I
                                > > pack which again is <= 1900 calories a day.
                                > >
                                >

                              • Roleigh Martin
                                Obviously John is not into the Paleo diet or low-carb diet, otherwise he d be more in tune with 500,000 years of dietary advice. Dietary anthropologists find
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                                  Obviously John is not into the Paleo diet or low-carb diet, otherwise he'd be more in tune with 500,000 years of dietary advice.  Dietary anthropologists find that about 30 to 35 percent of one's diet should be protein.  John's more into new-age fads, like the low protein diets of the last 2,000 some years.
                                • John Ladd
                                  On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Roleigh Martin wrote: Obviously John is not into the Paleo diet or low-carb diet, otherwise he d be more
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                                    On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:

                                    Obviously John is not into the Paleo diet or low-carb diet, otherwise he'd be more in tune with 500,000 years of dietary advice.  Dietary anthropologists find that about 30 to 35 percent of one's diet should be protein.  John's more into new-age fads, like the low protein diets of the last 2,000 some years.

                                    Yeah. New age like farina, grits, polenta, couscous, prosciutto, hummus, tabbouleh, pesto, dry cheeses, peanut butter, olive oil, lard, rendered bacon fat, ghee.  But 2,000 years is about right.  Foods developed before refrigeration are in my sweet spot, not pre-historic.

                                    I actually am not anti-protein.  I just hate carrying things like jerky and slim jims at about 100 calories per oz when I can get 150+ calories per oz from combinations that include lots of fats and oils (natural or added).  I'd love to carry more protein if it weren't as heavy per calorie.  (I have the same problem with sugar.)

                                    But Roleigh's right about one thing - we San Francisco people just don't do paleolithic. We even sometimes have trouble with merely reactionary.

                                    John Curran Ladd
                                    1616 Castro Street
                                    San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                    415-648-9279
                                  • Barbara Karagosian
                                    Haha, John!! Barbara
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                                      Haha, John!!

                                      Barbara

                                      On Jun 30, 2010, at 8:36 PM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:

                                       

                                      On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 6:08 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@pobox. com> wrote:

                                      Obviously John is not into the Paleo diet or low-carb diet, otherwise he'd be more in tune with 500,000 years of dietary advice.  Dietary anthropologists find that about 30 to 35 percent of one's diet should be protein.  John's more into new-age fads, like the low protein diets of the last 2,000 some years.

                                      Yeah. New age like farina, grits, polenta, couscous, prosciutto, hummus, tabbouleh, pesto, dry cheeses, peanut butter, olive oil, lard, rendered bacon fat, ghee.  But 2,000 years is about right.  Foods developed before refrigeration are in my sweet spot, not pre-historic.

                                      I actually am not anti-protein.  I just hate carrying things like jerky and slim jims at about 100 calories per oz when I can get 150+ calories per oz from combinations that include lots of fats and oils (natural or added).  I'd love to carry more protein if it weren't as heavy per calorie.  (I have the same problem with sugar.)

                                      But Roleigh's right about one thing - we San Francisco people just don't do paleolithic. We even sometimes have trouble with merely reactionary.

                                      John Curran Ladd
                                      1616 Castro Street
                                      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                      415-648-9279

                                    • ed_rodriguez52@yahoo.com
                                      I agree with you John for the most part. This time last year I look down on GPS and spot. I was of the school where such gadgets take away a backpacker
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                                        I agree with you John for the most part. This time last year I look down on GPS and spot. I was of the school where such gadgets take away a backpacker outdoor skill needed to survive in the back country. But now I have a different view I now see SPOT is a great tool to get aid to a distress hiker. This year I read in two different trail journey where PCT'er had to call 911. With the GPS I see how it could aid some to locate where their at in a section where the trail is covered with snow or the trail is poorly maintain.

                                        Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


                                        From: John Ladd <johnladd@...>
                                        Sender: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 17:20:11 -0700
                                        To: <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                                        ReplyTo: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Gear & Food for JMT Hike from July 24 to August 15 -- Please comment

                                         

                                        I'm philosophically kind of anti-ultralight, so I love it when people decide to carry extra weight just because they like something.  I think it is usually the right judgment, though as you get older and weight becomes harder you may find that you no longer need things you once needed (I don't carry a camera anymore.)  

                                        On your GPS point, one of the reasons I like my Spot is that I transfer my locations onto a Gmail map at the end of my trip to track at least my lunches and campsites, and occasionally just some place I want to remember later (e.g., devil's washbowl several miles below the JMT)  I can certainly understand wanting  a more detailed record.

                                        Sorry to sound like a "scold" about the soap but glad to hear you carry some.  I think Giardia gets unfairly blamed for a lot of problems that are actually poor hand hygiene and I know that there are JMT hikers who think they can use hand sanitizer as a soap substitute (and it really isn't).

                                        John Curran Ladd
                                        1616 Castro Street
                                        San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                        415-648-9279


                                        On Wed, Jun 30, 2010 at 4:45 PM, manfred_kopisch <manfred@kopisch. com> wrote:
                                         

                                        Hi John,

                                        Thanks for the detailed reply. The consumables is clearly an area where I can save some more weight. I'm aware that the GPS is not needed for navigation, but we would like to have our actual tracks recorded and analyze them later. Thus, we have the need for the charger to supply the GPS with fresh batteries every day.
                                        ...
                                        I actually have soap (Wilderness Wash from Sea-to-Summit) with a weight of 1.65 oz on my handwritten list and must have missed it when I put everything into an Excel spreadsheet.


                                      • ed_rodriguez52@yahoo.com
                                        Manfred I think you are in the ball park with the weight here is my gear list
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                                          Manfred I think you are in the ball park with the weight here is my gear list http://postholer.com/journal/viewGearlist.php?sid=e4aed5d5a3c9cd4726219a8110319728&event_id=714. For your son I think you may want to look at something different than a baseball cap. My concern is the sun is going to kill your son ears and neck. Also are the both of you going to carry a bear canister if so will it be for the hold JMT. We are going sobo and will taken 2 bear Vault 500 , but we send 1 bear canister in our resupply bucket to MTR

                                          Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


                                          From: "manfred_kopisch" <manfred@...>
                                          Sender: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                          Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 23:36:35 -0000
                                          To: <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                                          ReplyTo: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Gear & Food for JMT Hike from July 24 to August 15 -- Please comment

                                           

                                          Hi Ed,

                                          My son has his gear list on his website at his link Daniel's gear list. He is right now at 20 lbs on his back (pack + gear) + 22.5 lbs in consumables. I should clearly give him our tent and then we would both be at 23 lbs :>

                                          Enjoy your hike this year!

                                          Manfred


                                          --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, ed_rodriguez52@ ... wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Say Manfred, I was wondering what is your son carrying. Like what Barbara said I don't count what am wearing or my trekking poles or shoes. With your tent I will have your son carry the poles and rain fly that goes to your tent. I will be carrying 40 to 45lb that with about 20lb of food. One of the problem that I ran into this year planning is money. I could have cut about 5lbs (tent, sleeping bag). Good luck and have a safe journey
                                          > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
                                          >
                                          > -----Original Message-----
                                          > From: "manfred_kopisch" manfred@...
                                          > Sender: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com
                                          > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:38:56
                                          > To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com
                                          > Reply-To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com
                                          > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Gear & Food for JMT Hike from July 24 to August 15 -- Please comment
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > All,
                                          >
                                          > I'm a brandnew member to this group. My son (15) and I (46) are going
                                          > together on the JMT (N->S). He is taking me along on his fundraising
                                          > walk for his Eagle Scout Project. You can read about our day to day hike
                                          > plan, our preparation hikes, his gear list, etc. on his website
                                          > Daniel's Eagle Scout Project.
                                          > <http://daniels- eagle-scout- project.webs. com/>
                                          >
                                          > I put together a gear list and a food plan for myself and uploaded both
                                          > to this site. I would appreciate if you could comment on both. My gear
                                          > list
                                          > <http://f1.grp. yahoofs.com/ v1/QKIrTPHekaK26 g8YPWFGnMLgF1bPT WPQmeYfmNF0G_ \
                                          > PEdQC3_ZlRU69CCmYkD AOe-h_SPU_ Y4xIQ3bk2cs8si0r bxbPbZCc5D06s7gc /Gear%20lis\
                                          > ts/Gear%20List% 20for%20JMT. pdf> shows right now a maximum weight of 55
                                          > lbs right after resupply at Muir Trail Ranch. That is a lot to carry. So
                                          > I'm open to suggestions. Hiking faster and saving weight by carrying
                                          > less food is not an option, because my son wants to enjoy the whole
                                          > trail and go fishing every day.
                                          >
                                          > I'm planning to live with 3,000 calories per day and supplement the food
                                          > with any trout we might catch. Here is my food plan
                                          > <http://f1.grp. yahoofs.com/ v1/QKIrTLb_ r4e26g8Y5UMpf7iF 9dv8ZrQwqcMeWxxe Qg\
                                          > 6mC_dhe-HuYflSlCdH9 hMYS4kJM_ M_49HY3ye5ksBp0e _ABzttcvobn13V- CU/Food%20and\
                                          > %20trail%20cooking/ Food%20Plan% 20for%20JMT. pdf> that requires roughly
                                          > 1.7 lbs per day. Any feedback on this is also welcome.
                                          >
                                          > Thanks for all your input and good luck with your JMT hikes this year.
                                          >
                                          > Manfred
                                          >

                                        • manfred_kopisch
                                          Ed, Thanks for the comment about Daniel s hat. After hearing it from several outsiders he has now agreed to a hat with a brim that covers his neck. Teenagers
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                                            Ed,

                                            Thanks for the comment about Daniel's hat. After hearing it from several "outsiders" he has now agreed to a hat with a brim that covers his neck. Teenagers sometimes need that extra input that doesn't come from their parents ...

                                            Manfred

                                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, ed_rodriguez52@... wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Manfred I think you are in the ball park with the weight here is my gear list http://postholer.com/journal/viewGearlist.php?sid=e4aed5d5a3c9cd4726219a8110319728&event_id=714. For your son I think you may want to look at something different than a baseball cap. My concern is the sun is going to kill your son ears and neck. Also are the both of you going to carry a bear canister if so will it be for the hold JMT. We are going sobo and will taken 2 bear Vault 500 , but we send 1 bear canister in our resupply bucket to MTR
                                            > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
                                            >
                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: "manfred_kopisch" <manfred@...>
                                            > Sender: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 23:36:35
                                            > To: <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                                            > Reply-To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Gear & Food for JMT Hike from July 24 to August 15 -- Please comment
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Hi Ed,
                                            >
                                            > My son has his gear list on his website at his link Daniel's gear list.
                                            > <http://daniels-eagle-scout-project.webs.com/gearlist.htm> He is right
                                            > now at 20 lbs on his back (pack + gear) + 22.5 lbs in consumables. I
                                            > should clearly give him our tent and then we would both be at 23 lbs
                                            > [:>]
                                            >
                                            > Enjoy your hike this year!
                                            >
                                            > Manfred
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, ed_rodriguez52@ wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > Say Manfred, I was wondering what is your son carrying. Like what
                                            > Barbara said I don't count what am wearing or my trekking poles or
                                            > shoes. With your tent I will have your son carry the poles and rain fly
                                            > that goes to your tent. I will be carrying 40 to 45lb that with about
                                            > 20lb of food. One of the problem that I ran into this year planning is
                                            > money. I could have cut about 5lbs (tent, sleeping bag). Good luck and
                                            > have a safe journey
                                            > > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
                                            > >
                                            > > -----Original Message-----
                                            > > From: "manfred_kopisch" manfred@
                                            > > Sender: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:38:56
                                            > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Reply-To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Gear & Food for JMT Hike from July 24 to
                                            > August 15 -- Please comment
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > All,
                                            > >
                                            > > I'm a brandnew member to this group. My son (15) and I (46) are going
                                            > > together on the JMT (N->S). He is taking me along on his fundraising
                                            > > walk for his Eagle Scout Project. You can read about our day to day
                                            > hike
                                            > > plan, our preparation hikes, his gear list, etc. on his website
                                            > > Daniel's Eagle Scout Project.
                                            > > <http://daniels-eagle-scout-project.webs.com/>
                                            > >
                                            > > I put together a gear list and a food plan for myself and uploaded
                                            > both
                                            > > to this site. I would appreciate if you could comment on both. My gear
                                            > > list
                                            > >
                                            > <http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QKIrTPHekaK26g8YPWFGnMLgF1bPTWPQmeYfmNF0G_\
                                            > \
                                            > >
                                            > PEdQC3_ZlRU69CCmYkDAOe-h_SPU_Y4xIQ3bk2cs8si0rbxbPbZCc5D06s7gc/Gear%20lis\
                                            > \
                                            > > ts/Gear%20List%20for%20JMT.pdf> shows right now a maximum weight of 55
                                            > > lbs right after resupply at Muir Trail Ranch. That is a lot to carry.
                                            > So
                                            > > I'm open to suggestions. Hiking faster and saving weight by carrying
                                            > > less food is not an option, because my son wants to enjoy the whole
                                            > > trail and go fishing every day.
                                            > >
                                            > > I'm planning to live with 3,000 calories per day and supplement the
                                            > food
                                            > > with any trout we might catch. Here is my food plan
                                            > >
                                            > <http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QKIrTLb_r4e26g8Y5UMpf7iF9dv8ZrQwqcMeWxxeQg\
                                            > \
                                            > >
                                            > 6mC_dhe-HuYflSlCdH9hMYS4kJM_M_49HY3ye5ksBp0e_ABzttcvobn13V-CU/Food%20and\
                                            > \
                                            > > %20trail%20cooking/Food%20Plan%20for%20JMT.pdf> that requires roughly
                                            > > 1.7 lbs per day. Any feedback on this is also welcome.
                                            > >
                                            > > Thanks for all your input and good luck with your JMT hikes this year.
                                            > >
                                            > > Manfred
                                            > >
                                            >
                                          • manfred_kopisch
                                            Yes, we are both carrying a bear canister (Bearikade Expedition), which we rent. His twin brother will carry a BV 500 for the time he hikes along (to Red s
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jun 30, 2010
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                                              Yes, we are both carrying a bear canister (Bearikade Expedition), which we rent. His twin brother will carry a BV 500 for the time he hikes along (to Red's Meadow).

                                              Manfred

                                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, ed_rodriguez52@... wrote:
                                              >
                                              > Manfred I think you are in the ball park with the weight here is my gear list http://postholer.com/journal/viewGearlist.php?sid=e4aed5d5a3c9cd4726219a8110319728&event_id=714. For your son I think you may want to look at something different than a baseball cap. My concern is the sun is going to kill your son ears and neck. Also are the both of you going to carry a bear canister if so will it be for the hold JMT. We are going sobo and will taken 2 bear Vault 500 , but we send 1 bear canister in our resupply bucket to MTR
                                              > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
                                              >
                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: "manfred_kopisch" <manfred@...>
                                              > Sender: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 23:36:35
                                              > To: <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                                              > Reply-To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Gear & Food for JMT Hike from July 24 to August 15 -- Please comment
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Hi Ed,
                                              >
                                              > My son has his gear list on his website at his link Daniel's gear list.
                                              > <http://daniels-eagle-scout-project.webs.com/gearlist.htm> He is right
                                              > now at 20 lbs on his back (pack + gear) + 22.5 lbs in consumables. I
                                              > should clearly give him our tent and then we would both be at 23 lbs
                                              > [:>]
                                              >
                                              > Enjoy your hike this year!
                                              >
                                              > Manfred
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, ed_rodriguez52@ wrote:
                                              > >
                                              > > Say Manfred, I was wondering what is your son carrying. Like what
                                              > Barbara said I don't count what am wearing or my trekking poles or
                                              > shoes. With your tent I will have your son carry the poles and rain fly
                                              > that goes to your tent. I will be carrying 40 to 45lb that with about
                                              > 20lb of food. One of the problem that I ran into this year planning is
                                              > money. I could have cut about 5lbs (tent, sleeping bag). Good luck and
                                              > have a safe journey
                                              > > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
                                              > >
                                              > > -----Original Message-----
                                              > > From: "manfred_kopisch" manfred@
                                              > > Sender: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2010 20:38:56
                                              > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Reply-To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                              > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Gear & Food for JMT Hike from July 24 to
                                              > August 15 -- Please comment
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > > All,
                                              > >
                                              > > I'm a brandnew member to this group. My son (15) and I (46) are going
                                              > > together on the JMT (N->S). He is taking me along on his fundraising
                                              > > walk for his Eagle Scout Project. You can read about our day to day
                                              > hike
                                              > > plan, our preparation hikes, his gear list, etc. on his website
                                              > > Daniel's Eagle Scout Project.
                                              > > <http://daniels-eagle-scout-project.webs.com/>
                                              > >
                                              > > I put together a gear list and a food plan for myself and uploaded
                                              > both
                                              > > to this site. I would appreciate if you could comment on both. My gear
                                              > > list
                                              > >
                                              > <http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QKIrTPHekaK26g8YPWFGnMLgF1bPTWPQmeYfmNF0G_\
                                              > \
                                              > >
                                              > PEdQC3_ZlRU69CCmYkDAOe-h_SPU_Y4xIQ3bk2cs8si0rbxbPbZCc5D06s7gc/Gear%20lis\
                                              > \
                                              > > ts/Gear%20List%20for%20JMT.pdf> shows right now a maximum weight of 55
                                              > > lbs right after resupply at Muir Trail Ranch. That is a lot to carry.
                                              > So
                                              > > I'm open to suggestions. Hiking faster and saving weight by carrying
                                              > > less food is not an option, because my son wants to enjoy the whole
                                              > > trail and go fishing every day.
                                              > >
                                              > > I'm planning to live with 3,000 calories per day and supplement the
                                              > food
                                              > > with any trout we might catch. Here is my food plan
                                              > >
                                              > <http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QKIrTLb_r4e26g8Y5UMpf7iF9dv8ZrQwqcMeWxxeQg\
                                              > \
                                              > >
                                              > 6mC_dhe-HuYflSlCdH9hMYS4kJM_M_49HY3ye5ksBp0e_ABzttcvobn13V-CU/Food%20and\
                                              > \
                                              > > %20trail%20cooking/Food%20Plan%20for%20JMT.pdf> that requires roughly
                                              > > 1.7 lbs per day. Any feedback on this is also welcome.
                                              > >
                                              > > Thanks for all your input and good luck with your JMT hikes this year.
                                              > >
                                              > > Manfred
                                              > >
                                              >
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