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Re: [John Muir Trail] Plastic bucket/'dundo'

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  • ed_rodriguez52@yahoo.com
    Good point Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ... From: John Lovaas Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 19:42:16 To:
    Message 1 of 25 , Jun 6, 2010
      Good point

      Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


      From: "John Lovaas" <jlovaas@...>
      Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 19:42:16 -0500
      To: johnmuirtrail<johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [John Muir Trail] Plastic bucket/'dundo'

       

      >>>

      Posted by: "ed_rodriguez52@..."

      I am carrying a plastic bucket that am planning to use to do my laundry,
      dishes and more important at the end of a long day is to rinse my self offf
      with a towel
      <<<

      I immediately thought of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer was doing all
      his salad prep in the shower(complete with garbage disposal in the
      drain)while he bathed. Yikes.

      I may be a gram weenie, but my milk jug 'bathtub' didn't weigh that much.
      Cleaning me, my clothes, and my cookware in the same tiny little sink,
      though; sounds like a recipe for lower/upper GI trouble ;-)

      I've since realized I could use my gravity feed water filter as a shower, so
      I've ditched the 'bathtub'. I do my laundry while I'm showering, and I
      don't have any dishes- just a cup.

      As to the handi-wipe issue- hauling wipes for TP use seems like something a
      pack mule should carry, along with a case of beer. Nice and pleasant, but
      not necessary in the wilderness for the foot traveler. If, by going into
      the wilderness, we are, among other pursuits, attempting to honor necessity
      and sufficiency.

      jl


    • Jim Underwood
      I am opting for the MSR dromrary 6 liter bladder for camp water, also doubles as a shower (with attachment), and as a water bladder for the pack (with
      Message 2 of 25 , Jun 6, 2010
        I am opting for the MSR dromrary 6 liter bladder for camp water, also doubles as a shower (with attachment), and as a water bladder for the pack (with attachment).  Very sturdy construction. Also, for laundry, I like the idea of showering at the same time for some items, also the Bear Vault can triple as a seat and a laundry bucket as needed.


        From: John Lovaas <jlovaas@...>
        To: johnmuirtrail <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 5:42:16 PM
        Subject: [John Muir Trail] Plastic bucket/'dundo'

         

        >>>

        Posted by: "ed_rodriguez52@..."

        I am carrying a plastic bucket that am planning to use to do my laundry,
        dishes and more important at the end of a long day is to rinse my self offf
        with a towel
        <<<

        I immediately thought of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer was doing all
        his salad prep in the shower(complete with garbage disposal in the
        drain)while he bathed. Yikes.

        I may be a gram weenie, but my milk jug 'bathtub' didn't weigh that much.
        Cleaning me, my clothes, and my cookware in the same tiny little sink,
        though; sounds like a recipe for lower/upper GI trouble ;-)

        I've since realized I could use my gravity feed water filter as a shower, so
        I've ditched the 'bathtub'. I do my laundry while I'm showering, and I
        don't have any dishes- just a cup.

        As to the handi-wipe issue- hauling wipes for TP use seems like something a
        pack mule should carry, along with a case of beer. Nice and pleasant, but
        not necessary in the wilderness for the foot traveler. If, by going into
        the wilderness, we are, among other pursuits, attempting to honor necessity
        and sufficiency.

        jl



      • John Ladd
        I like http://www.rei.com/product/782973 5-Gal Sea-to-Summit folding bucket. Hangs well from a tree. Kinda stands up on its own John Curran Ladd 1616 Castro
        Message 3 of 25 , Jun 6, 2010
          I like

          http://www.rei.com/product/782973

          5-Gal Sea-to-Summit folding bucket. Hangs well from a tree.  Kinda stands up on its own

          John Curran Ladd
          1616 Castro Street
          San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
          415-648-9279


          On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Jim Underwood <underwoodjjd@...> wrote:


          I am opting for the MSR dromrary 6 liter bladder for camp water, also doubles as a shower (with attachment), and as a water bladder for the pack (with attachment).  Very sturdy construction. Also, for laundry, I like the idea of showering at the same time for some items, also the Bear Vault can triple as a seat and a laundry bucket as needed.


          From: John Lovaas <jlovaas@...>
          To: johnmuirtrail <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 5:42:16 PM

          Subject: [John Muir Trail] Plastic bucket/'dundo'

           

          >>>


          Posted by: "ed_rodriguez52@..."

          I am carrying a plastic bucket that am planning to use to do my laundry,
          dishes and more important at the end of a long day is to rinse my self offf
          with a towel
          <<<

          I immediately thought of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer was doing all
          his salad prep in the shower(complete with garbage disposal in the
          drain)while he bathed. Yikes.

          I may be a gram weenie, but my milk jug 'bathtub' didn't weigh that much.
          Cleaning me, my clothes, and my cookware in the same tiny little sink,
          though; sounds like a recipe for lower/upper GI trouble ;-)

          I've since realized I could use my gravity feed water filter as a shower, so
          I've ditched the 'bathtub'. I do my laundry while I'm showering, and I
          don't have any dishes- just a cup.

          As to the handi-wipe issue- hauling wipes for TP use seems like something a
          pack mule should carry, along with a case of beer. Nice and pleasant, but
          not necessary in the wilderness for the foot traveler. If, by going into
          the wilderness, we are, among other pursuits, attempting to honor necessity
          and sufficiency.

          jl






        • Rebecca Sowards-Emmerd
          I like this one - it s a lot lighter than the other buckets and cheaper. Hang it from a tree or set it down on a flat rock.
          Message 4 of 25 , Jun 6, 2010
            I like this one - it's a lot lighter than the other buckets and cheaper. Hang it from a tree or set it down on a flat rock. 

            http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/accessdetail.cfm/CO1010

            On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 6:53 PM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
             

            I like

            http://www.rei.com/product/782973

            5-Gal Sea-to-Summit folding bucket. Hangs well from a tree.  Kinda stands up on its own



            John Curran Ladd
            1616 Castro Street
            San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
            415-648-9279


            On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 6:07 PM, Jim Underwood <underwoodjjd@...> wrote:


            I am opting for the MSR dromrary 6 liter bladder for camp water, also doubles as a shower (with attachment), and as a water bladder for the pack (with attachment).  Very sturdy construction. Also, for laundry, I like the idea of showering at the same time for some items, also the Bear Vault can triple as a seat and a laundry bucket as needed.


            From: John Lovaas <jlovaas@...>
            To: johnmuirtrail <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sun, June 6, 2010 5:42:16 PM

            Subject: [John Muir Trail] Plastic bucket/'dundo'

             

            >>>


            Posted by: "ed_rodriguez52@..."

            I am carrying a plastic bucket that am planning to use to do my laundry,
            dishes and more important at the end of a long day is to rinse my self offf
            with a towel
            <<<

            I immediately thought of the episode of Seinfeld where Kramer was doing all
            his salad prep in the shower(complete with garbage disposal in the
            drain)while he bathed. Yikes.

            I may be a gram weenie, but my milk jug 'bathtub' didn't weigh that much.
            Cleaning me, my clothes, and my cookware in the same tiny little sink,
            though; sounds like a recipe for lower/upper GI trouble ;-)

            I've since realized I could use my gravity feed water filter as a shower, so
            I've ditched the 'bathtub'. I do my laundry while I'm showering, and I
            don't have any dishes- just a cup.

            As to the handi-wipe issue- hauling wipes for TP use seems like something a
            pack mule should carry, along with a case of beer. Nice and pleasant, but
            not necessary in the wilderness for the foot traveler. If, by going into
            the wilderness, we are, among other pursuits, attempting to honor necessity
            and sufficiency.

            jl







          • John Ladd
            I had one of these (see below) for two years when it started to leak badly. But it is small, cheap and lightweight. Campmor also carries them (or used to) John
            Message 5 of 25 , Jun 6, 2010
              I had one of these (see below) for two years when it started to leak badly.  But it is small, cheap and lightweight. Campmor also carries them (or used to)

              John Curran Ladd
              1616 Castro Street
              San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
              415-648-9279


              On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Rebecca Sowards-Emmerd <rebecca@...> wrote:


              I like this one - it's a lot lighter than the other buckets and cheaper. Hang it from a tree or set it down on a flat rock. 


            • Rebecca Sowards-Emmerd
              Yep, i have a few of them stockpiled in my closet for that very reason. :) Although, I ve been using the same one for 4+ years now without any problems and
              Message 6 of 25 , Jun 6, 2010
                Yep, i have a few of them stockpiled in my closet for that very reason. :) Although, I've been using the same one for 4+ years now without any problems and still haven't had to dig out one of my backups. Just like my el-cheapo $14 backpacking fishing rod, it's hung in there longer than some of my expensive gear!


                On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 9:53 PM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                 

                I had one of these (see below) for two years when it started to leak badly.  But it is small, cheap and lightweight. Campmor also carries them (or used to)



                John Curran Ladd
                1616 Castro Street
                San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                415-648-9279


                On Sun, Jun 6, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Rebecca Sowards-Emmerd <rebecca@...> wrote:


                I like this one - it's a lot lighter than the other buckets and cheaper. Hang it from a tree or set it down on a flat rock. 



              • Ann Pfeil
                Aloha! Agreed - absolutely love my water bag; as did many others on the AT and PCT wishing to borrow it. Looks like it ll be on the JMT too. Aloha! Ann
                Message 7 of 25 , Jun 7, 2010

                  Aloha!  Agreed – absolutely love my water bag; as did many others on the AT and PCT wishing to borrow it.  Looks like it’ll be on the JMT too.

                   

                  Aloha! Ann

                • rand
                  Since this is the JMT thread......and in theory the majority of that trail requires a bear canister.....is there anything wrong with using the bear canister as
                  Message 8 of 25 , Jun 7, 2010
                    Since this is the JMT thread......and in theory the majority of that trail requires a bear canister.....is there anything wrong with using the bear canister as the "bucket"?
                  • Peter Burke
                    ... seen it used as laundry bucket many times. just make sure you have your food somewhere safe (i.e.use the space in the canisters of the rest of your group)
                    Message 9 of 25 , Jun 7, 2010
                      On 6/7/2010 3:11 PM, rand wrote:
                       

                      Since this is the JMT thread......and in theory the majority of that trail requires a bear canister.....is there anything wrong with using the bear canister as the "bucket"?


                      seen it used as laundry bucket many times. just make sure you have your food somewhere safe (i.e.use the space in the canisters of the rest of your group) when you head for the river with the empty bucket. 
                       


                    • John
                      Bear cans work great for washing, not so good for drinking water. As I mentioned before; wine bags for water. Very light and tuff and free (after you drink the
                      Message 10 of 25 , Jun 7, 2010
                        Bear cans work great for washing, not so good for drinking water.

                        As I mentioned before; wine bags for water. Very light and tuff and free (after you drink the wine!)

                        Again, large water containers should be standard equipment as they substantially reduce the number of trips required to the source, thereby reducing impacts to fragile stream side vegetation. With proper water storage you really shouldn't need to make more than one trip to the creek.

                        JD
                        Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                        www.johndittli.com


                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, rand <no_reply@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Since this is the JMT thread......and in theory the majority of that trail requires a bear canister.....is there anything wrong with using the bear canister as the "bucket"?
                        >
                      • Sam Rohlfs
                        I have done that many times. Of course someone has to guard your food while your off with the bucket. Just be careful, when wet those cannisters are heavy
                        Message 11 of 25 , Jun 7, 2010
                          I have done that many times.  Of course someone has to guard your food while your off with the bucket.  Just be careful, when wet those cannisters are heavy and slippery.  I only did it where I can retrieve it if it sinks.

                          On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 1:11 PM, rand <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                           

                          Since this is the JMT thread......and in theory the majority of that trail requires a bear canister.....is there anything wrong with using the bear canister as the "bucket"?


                        • Kevin Aston
                          I hear often of plans to use the bear canister for other purposes than storing your food. So where is your food while you are using the canister for other
                          Message 12 of 25 , Jun 8, 2010
                            I hear often of plans to use the bear canister for other purposes than storing your food. So where is your food while you are using the canister for other things. Bears do not come out just at night. My daughter had the pocket of her pack ripped off by bear in the middle of the day because of a half handfull of sunflower seeds she stuck in there while doing laundry. I like th 2 1/2 gallon water bag Sportsman Warehouse sells for $5. It weighs 3 oz.

                            Planning ahead is half the fun.
                            Kevin Aston www.kevinaston.com
                          • ned@mountaineducation.org
                            I d like to chime in here with a durability point: We re all for have as light a pack as possible, but not at the expense of safety and durability. Case in
                            Message 13 of 25 , Jun 8, 2010
                              I'd like to chime in here with a durability point:
                               
                              We're all for have as light a pack as possible, but not at the expense of safety and durability. Case in point, here, is the selection of a good water bag for in-camp use for dinner and breakfast water needs. Many simply choose the lightest and cheapest and trot off into the wilderness a happy camper until they use it. Sure it will hold the 2 1/2 gallons of water, but will it puncture easily if you lay it on granite, pine cones, or sharp twigs?
                               
                              The MSR Dromedary bags are made in different sizes and very durable. There have been times where, due to the cold or our haste that we have literally chucked or dropped it fully loaded onto a granite rock or slab, it has been frozen onto the snow in the morning and has been quite easy to dislodge without damage, it has been quickly hung from the stub of a tree branch to dangle and scrape alongside some pretty rough bark, or has been tied, precariously, onto our packs during the day's hike to swing away in the sun melting snow within and there has never been any leakage or puncture. I would hate to get out there, miles or days from a trailhead, to find that my water bag, which I rely upon for the filtered storage of my evening and morning water supply, easily punctured or ripped under normal backcountry wear and tear. Lightweight is nice, but test it out close to home under similarly expected conditions before you have to rely upon its performance miles from replacement!
                               
                              A similar case in point was the issue of lightweight snow pants. It was quickly discovered that they do an adequate job as long as you don't slide over crusty snow or ice and certainly, for the same reasons, do not sit on anything rough like granite or the bark of a fallen tree! Duct tape doesn't last long, either, as a suitable repair in this case.
                               
                              So, before you purchase your gear, consider, also, its durability, rather than just its weight, so you have a fun and safe time out there.
                               
                               

                              Ned Tibbits, Director
                              Mountain Education
                              1106A Ski Run Blvd
                              South Lake Tahoe, Ca. 96150
                                  P: 888-996-8333
                                  F: 530-541-1456
                                  C: 530-721-1551
                                  http://www.mountaineducation.org
                            • Peter Burke
                              ... I have an MSR but rarely use it due to the taste it adds to the water. I keep it on the bottom of my pack for those places we need more than a gallon of
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jun 9, 2010
                                On 6/8/2010 3:22 PM, ned@... wrote:
                                 

                                I'd like to chime in here with a durability point:
                                 

                                The MSR Dromedary bags are made in different sizes and very durable. There have been times where, due to the cold or our haste that we have literally chucked or dropped it fully loaded onto a granite rock or slab, it has been frozen onto the snow in the morning and has been quite easy to dislodge without damage, it has been quickly hung from the stub of a tree branch to dangle and scrape alongside some pretty rough bark, or has been tied, precariously, onto our packs during the day's hike to swing away in the sun melting snow within and there has never been any leakage or puncture. I would hate to get out there, miles or days from a trailhead, to find that my water bag, which I rely upon for the filtered storage of my evening and morning water supply, easily

                                I have an MSR but rarely use it due to the taste it adds to the water. I keep it on the bottom of my pack for those places we need more than a gallon of water (e.g. Whitney overnight, etc), also because we carry a second water container - we've been heavily using Nalgene folding plastic cantene somebody gave us after his JMT 2 years ago has now lasted 4 full JMTs and will go on two more this year unless I feel like I should retire it before failure. I love that $10 water bag. Much easier to fill than the MSR due to the bag having some "structure" when unfolded, and it has a very nice handle that let me once use it as a bucket pulling water from an area I could not reach, but with a short rope tied through that handle/hole in the bag, I was able to lower it into the stream and fill it. The MSR probaby would have also brought up some water once it stopped floating on the surface, but this thing filled up to 96 ounces in a few seconds without any real effort.

                                It never leaked, no taste to the material, clear so you can see you scooped up pretty clean water (I don't filter anything), and you can get three of them for one MSR bag. The Nalgene cantene is nice and stiff when unfolded and almost as easy to fill as a bucket, while the MSR is this floppy bag that takes more time to fill in a stream, plus when you're done it's all soaked. Twice the weight of the Nalgene cantene as well, and like I said - we have not had a failure with it - 4 full JMTs (first owner and us) makes about 70 days of use for a group of three, usually folded during the day, unfolded and filled overnight. Last September I had water freeze in it twice, with no negative impact either.

                                http://www.rei.com/product/626195

                                In the end, you use what you have experience with. I've tried both, and since we are three hikers, we still bring both, but I expect that this summer again, we'll primarily use the Nalgene cantene for camp use.

                                Peter





                              • Don Amundson
                                Peter makes a good point about using what you have experience with. I don t hike in snow/freezing conditions so I don t know if my hydration/water storage
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jun 9, 2010

                                  Peter makes a good point about using what you have experience with.  I don't hike in snow/freezing conditions so I don't know if my hydration/water storage choices would work if I did.  I use a Platypus 3l big zip hydration bladder and have never had any issues with it. I've dropped in on all manner of surfaces, hung it from trees jammed in my pack etc. It fills easily and have appreciated being able to see what goes in it. The  top of it opens up making it easy to fill and pore out of (for cooking etc.)  In camp I fill it up and have enough water for all my needs and usually enough left in the morning so I don't have to refill for the next days hike.  I also carry a 1l Platypus to put drink mixes in for carrying extra water if needed.  At one time I was looking at water bags for camp but for couldn't figure out why I would need it.  Weight is always a driving factor for me regarding equipment but I make darn sure I test whatever I use on shorter hikes before I commit to using a piece of gear on longer journeys. 
                                  I do also carry one of the Nalgeen 1qt. canteens but not for water.  It is one of the few "luxury" items I carry.  I hate to get out of my shelter in the middle of the night and the Nalgeen solves that problem!

                                  To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                  From: pburke@...
                                  Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 09:20:51 -0500
                                  Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: Plastic bucket/'dundo'

                                   
                                  On 6/8/2010 3:22 PM, ned@mountaineducati on.org wrote:
                                   

                                  I'd like to chime in here with a durability point....
                                     ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  In the end, you use what you have experience with. I've tried both, and since we are three hikers, we still bring both, but I expect that this summer again, we'll primarily use the Nalgene cantene for camp use.

                                  Peter








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                                • John Ladd
                                  Just wanted to add one point for anyone who thinks they don t need a water bag or something else that will hold a fairly large quantity of water. I do see
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jun 12, 2010
                                    Just wanted to add one point for anyone who thinks they don't need a water bag or something else that will hold a fairly large quantity of water.  I do see some ultralight people trying to get along on about 2 water bottles.

                                    If you use a filter pump to purify your water and carry, say, just the 1-liter bottlers of water bags you will spend 15 minutes each night pumping water out of the stream just at the time the mosquitoes are most happy to attack you.  If you have a water bag, you stay by the stream for about 60 seconds and then retreat to a place with less mosquitoes and do your filter pumping up there.

                                    I don't have strong feelings about my particular water bag, but I do have strong feelings about being able to pull a night-and-morning amount of water out of a stream in one trip.

                                    John Curran Ladd
                                    1616 Castro Street
                                    San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                    415-648-9279

                                  • Don Amundson
                                    John--with all due respect! Am I reading this right-water filters and ultralight people? Heaven forbid! I ll play an ultralight person for a moment here
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jun 12, 2010
                                      John--with all due respect! Am I reading this right-water filters and ultralight people?  Heaven forbid! I'll play an "ultralight person" for a moment here though I'm not really one because I carry 3 liquid containers. The third one is a wide mouth collapsible bottle to eliminate middle of night wanderings.  For water I use my backpack 3 liter hydration bladder with a wide mouth top opening. I can fill it to the brim just as quick as you heavyweight people can fill your water bag.  No separate water bag needed. I'll meet you at a creek of your choice for a contest.
                                      3 liters is enough for me for the night and usually to start hiking the next day also.  So, even ultralight people have strong feelings about being able to pull a night and morning amount of water out of a stream in one trip.  We just do it lighter.



                                        Just wanted to add one point for anyone who thinks they don't need a water bag or something else that will hold a fairly large quantity of water.  I do see some ultralight people trying to get along on about 2 water bottles.

                                      If you use a filter pump to purify your water and carry, say, just the 1-liter bottlers of water bags you will spend 15 minutes each night pumping water out of the stream just at the time the mosquitoes are most happy to attack you.  If you have a water bag, you stay by the stream for about 60 seconds and then retreat to a place with less mosquitoes and do your filter pumping up there.

                                      I don't have strong feelings about my particular water bag, but I do have strong feelings about being able to pull a night-and-morning amount of water out of a stream in one trip.

                                      John Curran Ladd





                                      The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with Hotmail. Get busy.
                                    • Karpani
                                      John, What do you mean by wine bags ?  Can you describe more specifically? Thanks! Namaste Karpani ... From: John Subject: [John Muir
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jun 18, 2010
                                        John,
                                        What do you mean by "wine bags"?  Can you describe more specifically?
                                        Thanks!
                                        Namaste
                                        Karpani

                                        --- On Mon, 6/7/10, John <shop@...> wrote:

                                        From: John <shop@...>
                                        Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Plastic bucket/'dundo'
                                        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Monday, June 7, 2010, 1:21 PM

                                         


                                        Bear cans work great for washing, not so good for drinking water.

                                        As I mentioned before; wine bags for water. Very light and tuff and free (after you drink the wine!)

                                        Again, large water containers should be standard equipment as they substantially reduce the number of trips required to the source, thereby reducing impacts to fragile stream side vegetation. With proper water storage you really shouldn't need to make more than one trip to the creek.

                                        JD
                                        Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                        www.johndittli.com

                                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, rand <no_reply@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Since this is the JMT thread......and in theory the majority of that trail requires a bear canister.....is there anything wrong with using the bear canister as the "bucket"?
                                        >

                                      • John
                                        Boxed wine comes in bags that are virtually indestructible. The right type has a removable spout that allows one to refill. For a while your water while taste
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jun 18, 2010
                                          Boxed wine comes in bags that are virtually indestructible. The right type has a removable spout that allows one to refill. For a while your water while taste like wine (not a bad thing unless you mix it to make powdered milk :-}
                                          This taste will go away after time. If you want handles simply put it in one of those awful plastic shopping bags. This is quite simply the lightest gallon water container available!

                                          The key to filling, is using a cup or pot to scoop water and then pour into the small hole.

                                          JD
                                          Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                          www.johndittli.com
                                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Karpani <karpanilove@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > John,
                                          > What do you mean by "wine bags"?  Can you describe more specifically?
                                          > Thanks!
                                          > Namaste
                                          > Karpani
                                          >
                                          > --- On Mon, 6/7/10, John <shop@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > From: John <shop@...>
                                          > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Plastic bucket/'dundo'
                                          > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Date: Monday, June 7, 2010, 1:21 PM
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >  
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Bear cans work great for washing, not so good for drinking water.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > As I mentioned before; wine bags for water. Very light and tuff and free (after you drink the wine!)
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > Again, large water containers should be standard equipment as they substantially reduce the number of trips required to the source, thereby reducing impacts to fragile stream side vegetation. With proper water storage you really shouldn't need to make more than one trip to the creek.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > JD
                                          >
                                          > Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                          >
                                          > www.johndittli.com
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, rand <no_reply@> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > > Since this is the JMT thread......and in theory the majority of that trail requires a bear canister.....is there anything wrong with using the bear canister as the "bucket"?
                                          >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Karpani
                                          Thank you, John!  Ingenious!  I ll have to sit with that . . . It s amazing how creative everyone is!  And, hey, that vino flavor in the earlier life of the
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jun 18, 2010
                                            Thank you, John!  Ingenious!  I'll have to sit with that . . . It's amazing how creative everyone is!  And, hey, that vino flavor in the earlier life of the bag could really upgrade or enhance some of those evening meals!  Make you think your dining uptown!:-)
                                            Cheers!
                                            Karpani

                                            --- On Fri, 6/18/10, John <shop@...> wrote:

                                            From: John <shop@...>
                                            Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Plastic bucket/'dundo'
                                            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Friday, June 18, 2010, 8:07 PM

                                             


                                            Boxed wine comes in bags that are virtually indestructible. The right type has a removable spout that allows one to refill. For a while your water while taste like wine (not a bad thing unless you mix it to make powdered milk :-}
                                            This taste will go away after time. If you want handles simply put it in one of those awful plastic shopping bags. This is quite simply the lightest gallon water container available!

                                            The key to filling, is using a cup or pot to scoop water and then pour into the small hole.

                                            JD
                                            Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                            www.johndittli.com
                                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Karpani <karpanilove@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > John,
                                            > What do you mean by "wine bags"?  Can you describe more specifically?
                                            > Thanks!
                                            > Namaste
                                            > Karpani
                                            >
                                            > --- On Mon, 6/7/10, John <shop@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > From: John <shop@...>
                                            > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Plastic bucket/'dundo'
                                            > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Date: Monday, June 7, 2010, 1:21 PM
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >  
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Bear cans work great for washing, not so good for drinking water.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > As I mentioned before; wine bags for water. Very light and tuff and free (after you drink the wine!)
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Again, large water containers should be standard equipment as they substantially reduce the number of trips required to the source, thereby reducing impacts to fragile stream side vegetation. With proper water storage you really shouldn't need to make more than one trip to the creek.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > JD
                                            >
                                            > Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                            >
                                            > www.johndittli.com
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, rand <no_reply@> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            > > Since this is the JMT thread......and in theory the majority of that trail requires a bear canister.....is there anything wrong with using the bear canister as the "bucket"?
                                            >
                                            > >
                                            >

                                          • John Ladd
                                            Earlier in this thread, John Dittli recommended wine bags as water carriers. I assume he means the bags that are inside of boxed wines. On my recent short
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jul 23, 2010
                                              Earlier in this thread, John Dittli recommended wine bags as water carriers.  I assume he means the bags that are inside of boxed wines.

                                              On my recent short trip, I found an unopened 5-liter box of wine abandoned 5 miles in from a TH.  Valiantly protecting it from the bears (anything in the service of nature!), I drank what I could, emptied the rest into a dry streambed and carried out the box and bag.

                                              Once I removed the bag from the box, it does look both sturdy and lightweight.  I'd love to use the bag as a supplemental water container for one stretch of my upcoming PCT trip (110 miles ending Seiad Valley, Ca - up near the OR border) because there is a stretch of questionable water availability.  It probably won't be used because, before I reach that stretch, it may be clear that the intermittent streams are all still flowing.  But if the intermittent streams are mostly dry, I'll have the one long stretch where I'd love to be able to fill it up.

                                              Problem is - I found emptying it quite easy (and relaxing).  I'm finding it hard to figure out how to FILL the thing. 

                                              I'd love to have ideas on how people handle this problem.

                                              Of course, this being 2010, there is an online illustrated tutorial on this at:

                                              http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To%3A-Reuse-Franzia-or-any-other-%22Wine-In-A-Box/

                                              How-To-Reuse-Franzia-or-any-other-Wine-In-A-Box.jpg

                                              It says you just twist the valve mechanism out, which I find I can do, but only with a couple of wrenches.  Not by hand.  Either I lack typical adult male hand strength, or my particular wine bag has an unusually tight fit.

                                              Anybody have any tricks for getting the valve out (short of weight training for added wrist strength or bringing along 2 big wrenches)?

                                              BTW: The comments section at the link above is worth reading if you are interested in this option. They suggest various ways of getting wine flavors out of the bag.   One person says he/she's used one as an inflatable pillow -- which looks like it should work.  Someone else suggests using the 2.5 liter bags that you get for coffee-in-a-box at Dunkin Doonuts or Starbucks.  Pricey, though, if you don't need a lot of coffee ($20).


                                              starbucks_b.jpg

                                              John Curran Ladd
                                              1616 Castro Street
                                              San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                              415-648-9279


                                              On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 1:21 PM, John <shop@...> wrote:

                                              Bear cans work great for washing, not so good for drinking water.

                                              As I mentioned before; wine bags for water. Very light and tuff and free (after you drink the wine!)

                                              Again, large water containers should be standard equipment as they substantially reduce the number of trips required to the source, thereby reducing impacts to fragile stream side vegetation. With proper water storage you really shouldn't need to make more than one trip to the creek.

                                              JD
                                              Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                              www.johndittli.com


                                            • John
                                              Hi John The bag(s) I use are pretty old and I m told the valves might be different now. My valve caps slip over the outside of the outlet. It is soft rubber
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jul 23, 2010
                                                Hi John

                                                The bag(s) I use are pretty old and I'm told the valves might be different now. My valve caps slip over the outside of the outlet. It is soft rubber and has a little flip tab in the center for releasing contents. It pops off by hand or by prying with a knife or spoon.

                                                JD
                                                Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                                www.johndittli.com


                                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Earlier in this thread, John Dittli recommended wine bags as water
                                                > carriers. I assume he means the bags that are inside of boxed wines.
                                                >
                                                > On my recent short trip, I found an unopened 5-liter box of wine abandoned 5
                                                > miles in from a TH. Valiantly protecting it from the bears (anything in the
                                                > service of nature!), I drank what I could, emptied the rest into a dry
                                                > streambed and carried out the box and bag.
                                                >
                                                > Once I removed the bag from the box, it does look both sturdy and
                                                > lightweight. I'd love to use the bag as a supplemental water container for
                                                > one stretch of my upcoming PCT trip (110 miles ending Seiad Valley, Ca - up
                                                > near the OR border) because there is a stretch of questionable water
                                                > availability. It probably won't be used because, before I reach that
                                                > stretch, it may be clear that the intermittent streams are all still
                                                > flowing. But if the intermittent streams are mostly dry, I'll have the one
                                                > long stretch where I'd love to be able to fill it up.
                                                >
                                                > Problem is - I found emptying it quite easy (and relaxing). I'm finding it
                                                > hard to figure out how to FILL the thing.
                                                >
                                                > I'd love to have ideas on how people handle this problem.
                                                >
                                                > Of course, this being 2010, there is an online illustrated tutorial on this
                                                > at:
                                                >
                                                > http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To%3A-Reuse-Franzia-or-any-other-%22Wine-In-A-Box/
                                                >
                                                > [image: How-To-Reuse-Franzia-or-any-other-Wine-In-A-Box.jpg]
                                                >
                                                > It says you just twist the valve mechanism out, which I find I *can* do, but
                                                > only with a couple of wrenches. Not by hand. Either I lack typical adult
                                                > male hand strength, or my particular wine bag has an unusually tight fit.
                                                >
                                                > *Anybody have any tricks for getting the valve out *(short of weight
                                                > training for added wrist strength or bringing along 2 big wrenches)?
                                                >
                                                > BTW: The comments section at the link above is worth reading if you are
                                                > interested in this option. They suggest various ways of getting wine flavors
                                                > out of the bag. One person says he/she's used one as an inflatable pillow
                                                > -- which looks like it should work. Someone else suggests using the 2.5
                                                > liter bags that you get for coffee-in-a-box at Dunkin Doonuts or Starbucks.
                                                > Pricey, though, if you don't need a lot of coffee ($20).
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > [image: starbucks_b.jpg]
                                                >
                                                > John Curran Ladd
                                                > 1616 Castro Street
                                                > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                                                > 415-648-9279
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 1:21 PM, John <shop@...> wrote:
                                                >
                                                > >
                                                > > Bear cans work great for washing, not so good for drinking water.
                                                > >
                                                > > As I mentioned before; wine bags for water. Very light and tuff and free
                                                > > (after you drink the wine!)
                                                > >
                                                > > Again, large water containers should be standard equipment as they
                                                > > substantially reduce the number of trips required to the source, thereby
                                                > > reducing impacts to fragile stream side vegetation. With proper water
                                                > > storage you really shouldn't need to make more than one trip to the creek.
                                                > >
                                                > > JD
                                                > > Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                                > > www.johndittli.com
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                >
                                              • jnwiley
                                                At a Starbucks inside a Safeway store in Redwood City, CA, we were able to buy just the coffee bag/box for $4.65 - manager looked up the price. Box is
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jul 24, 2010
                                                  At a Starbucks inside a Safeway store in Redwood City, CA, we were able to buy "just the coffee bag/box" for $4.65 - manager "looked up the price."

                                                  Box is labeled as 2.8 liters - bag and cap weigh less than 2oz.

                                                  Jim & Kristi - Happy Isles 8/2 > Whitney Portal 8/29


                                                  >Someone else suggests using the 2.5
                                                  > liter bags that you get for coffee-in-a-box at Dunkin Doonuts or Starbucks.
                                                  > Pricey, though, if you don't need a lot of coffee ($20).
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > [image: starbucks_b.jpg]
                                                  >
                                                  > John Curran Ladd
                                                  > 1616 Castro Street
                                                  > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                                                  > 415-648-9279
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 1:21 PM, John <shop@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Bear cans work great for washing, not so good for drinking water.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > As I mentioned before; wine bags for water. Very light and tuff and free
                                                  > > (after you drink the wine!)
                                                  > >
                                                  > > Again, large water containers should be standard equipment as they
                                                  > > substantially reduce the number of trips required to the source, thereby
                                                  > > reducing impacts to fragile stream side vegetation. With proper water
                                                  > > storage you really shouldn't need to make more than one trip to the creek.
                                                  > >
                                                  > > JD
                                                  > > Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                                  > > www.johndittli.com
                                                  > >
                                                  > >
                                                  >
                                                • John Ladd
                                                  Tried mine in a daypack today closed with a rubber stopper from my hardware store. Worked fine. I think I ll use that stretchy plumbers tape to make it
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jul 24, 2010
                                                    Tried mine in a daypack today closed with a rubber stopper from my hardware store.  Worked fine.  I think I'll use that stretchy plumbers tape to make it extra-secure on trail.

                                                    John Curran Ladd
                                                    1616 Castro Street
                                                    San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                                    415-648-9279


                                                    On Fri, Jul 23, 2010 at 7:20 PM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                                                    Earlier in this thread, John Dittli recommended wine bags as water carriers.  I assume he means the bags that are inside of boxed wines.

                                                    On my recent short trip, I found an unopened 5-liter box of wine abandoned 5 miles in from a TH.  Valiantly protecting it from the bears (anything in the service of nature!), I drank what I could, emptied the rest into a dry streambed and carried out the box and bag.

                                                    Once I removed the bag from the box, it does look both sturdy and lightweight.  I'd love to use the bag as a supplemental water container for one stretch of my upcoming PCT trip (110 miles ending Seiad Valley, Ca - up near the OR border) because there is a stretch of questionable water availability.  It probably won't be used because, before I reach that stretch, it may be clear that the intermittent streams are all still flowing.  But if the intermittent streams are mostly dry, I'll have the one long stretch where I'd love to be able to fill it up.

                                                    Problem is - I found emptying it quite easy (and relaxing).  I'm finding it hard to figure out how to FILL the thing. 

                                                    I'd love to have ideas on how people handle this problem.

                                                    Of course, this being 2010, there is an online illustrated tutorial on this at:

                                                    http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To%3A-Reuse-Franzia-or-any-other-%22Wine-In-A-Box/

                                                    How-To-Reuse-Franzia-or-any-other-Wine-In-A-Box.jpg

                                                    It says you just twist the valve mechanism out, which I find I can do, but only with a couple of wrenches.  Not by hand.  Either I lack typical adult male hand strength, or my particular wine bag has an unusually tight fit.

                                                    Anybody have any tricks for getting the valve out (short of weight training for added wrist strength or bringing along 2 big wrenches)?

                                                    BTW: The comments section at the link above is worth reading if you are interested in this option. They suggest various ways of getting wine flavors out of the bag.   One person says he/she's used one as an inflatable pillow -- which looks like it should work.  Someone else suggests using the 2.5 liter bags that you get for coffee-in-a-box at Dunkin Doonuts or Starbucks.  Pricey, though, if you don't need a lot of coffee ($20).


                                                    starbucks_b.jpg


                                                    John Curran Ladd
                                                    1616 Castro Street
                                                    San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                                    415-648-9279


                                                    On Mon, Jun 7, 2010 at 1:21 PM, John <shop@...> wrote:

                                                    Bear cans work great for washing, not so good for drinking water.

                                                    As I mentioned before; wine bags for water. Very light and tuff and free (after you drink the wine!)

                                                    Again, large water containers should be standard equipment as they substantially reduce the number of trips required to the source, thereby reducing impacts to fragile stream side vegetation. With proper water storage you really shouldn't need to make more than one trip to the creek.

                                                    JD
                                                    Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                                    www.johndittli.com



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