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Contingency planning; exit routes

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  • Jim Underwood
    Has anyone taken some time to determine some contingency planning re: potential exit routes (other than the obvious resupply points) in the event of a medical
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 29 7:39 PM
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      Has anyone taken some time to determine some contingency planning re: potential exit routes (other than the obvious resupply points) in the event of a medical emergency, etc.?  If so, I'd appreciate some advice.  Looking to work this info into my maps.  I'd esp like to determine some good points of exit at lower elevation in the event there is any serious AMS issues and a need arose to get lower and exit.

       I am not sure if the Harrison maps are sufficient for this purpose or if another overlay map would be better (any suggestions if so, please).  Thanks.

    • Roleigh Martin
      The Elizabeth Wenks book goes into all the segway exits. Great planning book. Last year, due to the 100 year storm forecast for 4 to 8 of snow forecasted
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 29 8:34 PM
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        The Elizabeth Wenks book goes into all the segway exits.  Great planning book.

        Last year, due to the 100 year storm forecast for 4 to 8 " of snow forecasted for August 5, the rangers advised all JMT hikers to vacate the trail for 36 hours, and we vacated the JMT at Taboose Pass, sat out 36 hours, and came back into the trail afterwards (the forecast was a dud except for the temps did drop to the 20s). 

        Taboose pass is easy enough exiting the JMT but man, would it be super, super hard entering the JMT from that route.

        Roleigh

        On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Jim Underwood <underwoodjjd@...> wrote:
         

        Has anyone taken some time to determine some contingency planning re: potential exit routes (other than the obvious resupply points) in the event of a medical emergency, etc.?  If so, I'd appreciate some advice.  Looking to work this info into my maps.  I'd esp like to determine some good points of exit at lower elevation in the event there is any serious AMS issues and a need arose to get lower and exit.

         I am not sure if the Harrison maps are sufficient for this purpose or if another overlay map would be better (any suggestions if so, please).  Thanks.


      • ed_rodriguez52@yahoo.com
        Say Jim, guide to the JMT, Thomas Winnett, Kathy Morey in the back (Appendix B) list getting on and off the JMT. I suggest in your plans to exits on the east
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 29 8:56 PM
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          Say Jim, guide to the JMT, Thomas Winnett, Kathy Morey in the back (Appendix B) list getting on and off the JMT. I suggest in your plans to exits on the east side makes it easy to find public transportation.

          Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


          From: Jim Underwood <underwoodjjd@...>
          Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 19:39:29 -0700 (PDT)
          To: <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
          Subject: [John Muir Trail] Contingency planning; exit routes

           

          Has anyone taken some time to determine some contingency planning re: potential exit routes (other than the obvious resupply points) in the event of a medical emergency, etc.?  If so, I'd appreciate some advice.  Looking to work this info into my maps.  I'd esp like to determine some good points of exit at lower elevation in the event there is any serious AMS issues and a need arose to get lower and exit.

           I am not sure if the Harrison maps are sufficient for this purpose or if another overlay map would be better (any suggestions if so, please).  Thanks.

        • Peter Burke
          ... Taboose isn t among my favorite passes, but for a southern JMT exit or entry route, it is about as easy as they come apart from Kearsarge. I think I ve
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 30 9:40 AM
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            On 4/29/2010 10:34 PM, Roleigh Martin wrote:  



            Taboose pass is easy enough exiting the JMT but man, would it be super, super hard entering the JMT from that route.


            Taboose isn't among my favorite passes, but for a southern JMT exit or entry route, it is about as easy as they come apart from Kearsarge. I think I've hiked it up/down in one day three times, and once as an early exit hike. Heading up, it gets hot early, and the first 2 miles are essentially desert. Plenty of people park there in summer and it should be possible to hitch a ride. In 2008, I saw a group of canoe-carrying guys hike up, 100 pounds+ of gear, wearing neoprene water-shoes. If they made it, anyone can. When you exit, get water at the second crossing, and then again when the trail gets near the stream one last time. After that it's all desert. Taboose is among the roughest passes, with lots of loose rock, hardly any shade at all, and long stretches between water sources.

            I've done Sawmill, too, and even though Sawmill is far prettier and has more water, it is much harder, plus comes with a depressing altitude drop just after you have clawed your way out of the desert :). No water at the bottom of Sawmill - get it on the last crossing in the woods, which would be miles from the exit and before the counter-climb to the grand Owens Valley overview point (http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/outdoor/Muir2009/photo_gallery/owens_valley_september/DSC_1632_stitch.html )

            Baxter is supposed to be very similar, and Shepherd probably is between Taboose and Sawmill in terms of difficulty and length. For exiting the trail, none of that really is a big deal, while you do have to worry about being able to either get a ride to town or at least have cell reception. On Shepherd you get cell signal once you reach the crest of that counter climb before the final drop into the desert. On Taboose, I've managed to call from about 10,000 feet once, but after that you have no signal until you get to the trailhead area.

            West side exit other than VVR or Florence Lake doesn't work so well due to the distances to trail heads. Even at Woods Creek you probably want to head east and over Sawmill if you need to exit quickly (weather permitting). I never did hike towards the western road end below the Woods Creek bridge, so I don't know how far it is - 10 miles I guess, perhaps more, and then you're probably at a trailhead where unless somebody shows up and gives you a ride, you will be stranded. In Owens Valley you can at least hike down to Aberdeen or Taboose Campground to get back to civilization quickly.

            Peter






          • Barbara Karagosian
            Thanks so much Peter-I appreciate you sharing all your awesome knowledge! Barbara
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 30 9:47 AM
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              Thanks so much Peter-I appreciate you sharing all your awesome knowledge!

              Barbara

              On Apr 30, 2010, at 9:40 AM, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:

               

              On 4/29/2010 10:34 PM, Roleigh Martin wrote:

               



              Taboose pass is easy enough exiting the JMT but man, would it be super, super hard entering the JMT from that route.


              Taboose isn't among my favorite passes, but for a southern JMT exit or entry route, it is about as easy as they come apart from Kearsarge. I think I've hiked it up/down in one day three times, and once as an early exit hike. Heading up, it gets hot early, and the first 2 miles are essentially desert. Plenty of people park there in summer and it should be possible to hitch a ride. In 2008, I saw a group of canoe-carrying guys hike up, 100 pounds+ of gear, wearing neoprene water-shoes. If they made it, anyone can. When you exit, get water at the second crossing, and then again when the trail gets near the stream one last time. After that it's all desert. Taboose is among the roughest passes, with lots of loose rock, hardly any shade at all, and long stretches between water sources.

              I've done Sawmill, too, and even though Sawmill is far prettier and has more water, it is much harder, plus comes with a depressing altitude drop just after you have clawed your way out of the desert :). No water at the bottom of Sawmill - get it on the last crossing in the woods, which would be miles from the exit and before the counter-climb to the grand Owens Valley overview point (http://didnt. doit.wisc. edu/outdoor/ Muir2009/ photo_gallery/ owens_valley_ september/ DSC_1632_ stitch.html )

              Baxter is supposed to be very similar, and Shepherd probably is between Taboose and Sawmill in terms of difficulty and length. For exiting the trail, none of that really is a big deal, while you do have to worry about being able to either get a ride to town or at least have cell reception. On Shepherd you get cell signal once you reach the crest of that counter climb before the final drop into the desert. On Taboose, I've managed to call from about 10,000 feet once, but after that you have no signal until you get to the trailhead area.

              West side exit other than VVR or Florence Lake doesn't work so well due to the distances to trail heads. Even at Woods Creek you probably want to head east and over Sawmill if you need to exit quickly (weather permitting). I never did hike towards the western road end below the Woods Creek bridge, so I don't know how far it is - 10 miles I guess, perhaps more, and then you're probably at a trailhead where unless somebody shows up and gives you a ride, you will be stranded. In Owens Valley you can at least hike down to Aberdeen or Taboose Campground to get back to civilization quickly.

              Peter






            • John Ladd
              Peter says: I never did hike towards the western road end below the Woods Creek bridge, so I don t know how far it is - 10 miles I guess, perhaps more, and
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 30 10:04 AM
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                Peter says:

                I never did hike towards the western road end below the Woods Creek bridge, so I don't know how far it is - 10 miles I guess, perhaps more, and then you're probably at a trailhead where unless somebody shows up and gives you a ride, you will be stranded.

                From Woods Creek (JMT mile 167)  to Roads End in Kings Canyon, you go down the very pretty Paradise Valley for 17 miles, all an easy downhill.  It is part of the heavily travelled Rae Lakes Loop, so you'd run into a lot of people, which can be helpful if you are having health issues.  Lots of bear boxes, easy trail.  There are lots of people at Roads End, so you could probably just keeping asking for a ride until you got one.  Plenty of campsites if you can't make it in one day.  No difficult stream crossings.

                Another westward-headed exit route would be the other end of the Rae Lakes loop, down from Vidette Meadow (mile 180) to roads end via Bubbs creek 14 miles - again lots of people, and all a steady downhill.  Pretty easy to do in one day and if you are hurting their are campsites (except for the first 3 miles where it is so steep there are no good campsites). No bad stream crossings.

                Bear Creek trail (mile 94?) leads 5 miles easy downhill maybe to a trailhead that is accessible only to 4-wheel drive vehicles. Most of the summer, there is probably enough traffic to this TH that an injured hiker could find a nice person to drive him/her from the TH down to the volunteer ranger station on Kaiser Pass road. I once did a map of this route at

                http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=102626430010297754856.000478e8760002cf592cb&z=12&iwloc=000478e97aa03aef11ad9

                But I agree with Peter than most good bail-out routes probably head east.

                If someone wanted to volunteer to create a exit route cheat sheet based on info in Lizzie Wenk's book, maps and these postings, I'd love to put it in the files area of the group.  It seems to me that a one-page listing should be able to give everyone a nice listing of the options including mileage, elevation changes (i.e., over a pass or just downhill) and travel issues at the trailhead.

                John Curran Ladd
                1616 Castro Street
                San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                415-648-9279


              • John Ladd
                Peter says: I never did hike towards the western road end below the Woods Creek bridge, so I don t know how far it is - 10 miles I guess, perhaps more, and
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 30 10:05 AM
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                  Peter says:

                  I never did hike towards the western road end below the Woods Creek bridge, so I don't know how far it is - 10 miles I guess, perhaps more, and then you're probably at a trailhead where unless somebody shows up and gives you a ride, you will be stranded.

                  From Woods Creek (JMT mile 167)  to Roads End in Kings Canyon, you go down the very pretty Paradise Valley for 17 miles, all an easy downhill.  It is part of the heavily travelled Rae Lakes Loop, so you'd run into a lot of people, which can be helpful if you are having health issues.  Lots of bear boxes, easy trail.  There are lots of people at Roads End, so you could probably just keeping asking for a ride until you got one.  Plenty of campsites if you can't make it in one day.  No difficult stream crossings.

                  Another westward-headed exit route would be the other end of the Rae Lakes loop, down from Vidette Meadow (mile 180) to roads end via Bubbs creek 14 miles - again lots of people, and all a steady downhill.  Pretty easy to do in one day and if you are hurting their are campsites (except for the first 3 miles where it is so steep there are no good campsites). No bad stream crossings.

                  Bear Creek trail (mile 94?) leads 5 miles easy downhill maybe to a trailhead that is accessible only to 4-wheel drive vehicles. Most of the summer, there is probably enough traffic to this TH that an injured hiker could find a nice person to drive him/her from the TH down to the volunteer ranger station on Kaiser Pass road. I once did a map of this route at

                  http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=102626430010297754856.000478e8760002cf592cb&z=12&iwloc=000478e97aa03aef11ad9

                  But I agree with Peter than most good bail-out routes probably head east.

                  If someone wanted to volunteer to create a exit route cheat sheet based on info in Lizzie Wenk's book, maps and these postings, I'd love to put it in the files area of the group.  It seems to me that a one-page listing should be able to give everyone a nice listing of the options including mileage, elevation changes (i.e., over a pass or just downhill) and travel issues at the trailhead.

                  John Curran Ladd
                  1616 Castro Street
                  San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                  415-648-9279


                • John Ladd
                  Jim Underwood s question (exit routes and maps) reminds me of a related story I wanted to share with the group. If you don t want the story and just want the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 30 10:29 AM
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                    Jim Underwood's question (exit routes and maps) reminds me of a related story I wanted to share with the group. 

                    If you don't want the story and just want the answer about exit route maps for the JMT, see part 2 of this posting.

                    Part One (the story): This is part of my ongoing series -- sharing stories about stupid mistakes I make.  So far, each of my recent trips have resulted in at least one after-action report of stupidity.  The most recent has two - here's the first one.  I'll do a cooking mistake story in a later posting.

                    Bob S. and I were on a 3-day showshoe trip headed west from Lake Tahoe into the NE corner of Desolation Wilderness -- headed for the Sierra's Club's Ludlow Hut.  I was in charge of getting maps for the trip.  Being too cheap to buy a decent map, I printed out several that I already had digitally.  My maps covered the intended route, but did not extend very far past where we planned to go.

                    It started snowing pretty heavily on our way in and after a steep sidehill stretch -- postholing even with snowshoes -- I briefly thought we'd not make it to the Hut.  Bob had brought a 2-man tent, so we would have been OK, but it would have been a tough night.  He kept me going, and shortly after my point of maximum despair, we found the trace of a road which led us to the hut. 

                    On the way in, we talked to a guy who was familiar with the area who suggested an alternative, less difficult, route back to Lake Tahoe.  The alternative route would be along the Rubicon Trail, a well-known jeep route where we snowmobiles would have packed down the route, so snowshoing would be easier.  We were told to expect "6 foot berms" created by the snowmobile traffic -- which actually sounded good under the circumstances. It seemed to make a lot more sense than the return route which I had planned, which would have got us closer to the car, but went XC along a ridgeline that could have been difficult. 

                    We were map and compass navigating (both Bob and I seem to be GPS-adverse) using the lay of the land to find ourselves in conditions where we really couldn't see much of a trail (thanks to new member Ned Tibbits, I'm now better at this than I used to be.)

                    The maps I had printed got us to the Rubicon trail OK.  We were rewarded, after some uncertainty, by actually being able to recognize the jeep road and even finding a sign.  The promised 6-foot berms, however, did not materialize and no snowmobiles had come in since the new snow.  So we soon lost the trail again.

                    Just as we were getting a bit depressed about our ability to re-find the jeep road, crossing the ice on a long lake, I realized that we were about to go off the borders of my map.  Not that it would have been that hard to find our way out (Lake Tahoe being fairly obviously downhill from us and to the East), I did find it pretty disquieting to neither be able to see any road or trail AND lacking a map that included the terrain we were navigating.

                    We eventually did re-locate the jeep road, which stayed fairly distinct for the rest of our return.  But I would have been happier to have a map.

                    Apologies to Bob.

                    Lesson learned: Don't just take a strip map of where you plan to go.. Take a map that covers, at least minimally, alternate routes that changed circumstances might require. 

                    Part Two: More directly answering the original question about JMT exit route mapping:

                    The Tom Harrison JMT map series does at least address the issue because they show the mileage to trailheads on the various marked entry/exit trails.  For example, if you were in need of an exit route at Le Conte Canyon, and you couldn't find the ranger, the Tom Harrison JMT map set (sheet 5) would show you that you had 3 options - return 20 miles back to Muir Trial Ranch over Muir Pass (11955 ft), 12.6 miles east over Bishop Pass (11972) to the South Lake Trailhead or 35.3 miles to Roads End in Kings Canyon NP.  What it wouldn't do for you:

                    1) It would not give you a map covering the entire exit route (except the one back on the JMT to MTR).  At some point, your exit route would go past the border of the map.

                    2) it wouldn't tell you that the long route to Roads End -- which the TH JMT map might make you think it just goes down the Kings River, which you might (incorrectly) assume would lead to Kings Canyon -- requires going over the 10,673 ft Granite Pass on the way out.  E.g., you can't tell that the exit route does not simply follow a single watershed, but takes you down the watershed and then requires you to go up and over two passes to the Kings Canyon watershed.

                    So if you want more that the TH JMT set will give you:

                    National Geographic (Trails Illustrated" map series) makes large-scale maps (1 in = 1.3 miles) of Yosemite NP (map 206) and Sequoia-Kings Canyon NPs (map 205) that would cover the north and south parts of the JMT and considerable territory beyond the trail.  NG doesn't make a map that covers the JMT stretch between the two parks (Donahue Pass at mile 36 to Piute Pass at mile 110).

                    Two Tom Harrison (same scale as his JMT set, 1 mile = 1 inch) will cover the JMT between the two NG maps - Mono Divide High Country map and his Mammoth High Country map.

                    I think, but can't confirm for sure, that 2 Tom Harrison maps would substitute for the National Geographic map 205 - his Kings Canyon High Country and Mt Whitney High Country.  I assume that his Yosemite High Country map would at least partly substitute for the NG map 206.  The NG maps are on somewhat heavier paper, but are printed back and front.  Both sets are on nice waterproof paper.  The NG maps are heavier but will cover a bigger area than the equivalent Harrison maps.

                    There is a set of four NG Trails Illustrated maps that covers Yosemite NP at a smaller scale, one each for each quadrant of the Park, but you'd need at least 2 maps to cover the JMT from the Valley to Donahue. 

                    REI carries both NG and TH maps.

                    John Curran Ladd
                    1616 Castro Street
                    San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                    415-648-9279


                    On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 7:39 PM, Jim Underwood <underwoodjjd@...> wrote:


                    ... I'd esp like to determine some good points of exit at lower elevation in the event there is any serious AMS issues and a need arose to get lower and exit.

                     I am not sure if the Harrison maps are sufficient for this purpose or if another overlay map would be better (any suggestions if so, please).  Thanks.


                  • Peter Burke
                    ... if you re on the JMT and hurting in that area, I d say head out over Kearsarge - much faster, expecially if you re southbound at that time.
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 30 2:02 PM
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                      On 4/30/2010 12:04 PM, John Ladd wrote:  


                      Another westward-headed exit route would be the other end of the Rae Lakes loop, down from Vidette Meadow (mile 180) to roads end via Bubbs creek 14 miles - again lots of people, and all a steady downhill.  Pretty easy to do in one day and if you are hurting their are campsites (except for the first 3 miles where it is so steep there are no good campsites). No bad stream crossings.

                      if you're on the JMT and hurting in that area, I'd say head out over Kearsarge - much faster, expecially if you're southbound at that time.

                    • John Ladd
                      Peter suggests Kearsage Pass (? miles to Onion Valley and Independence) rather than Bubbs Creek (14 miles to SEKI Roads End) if you need to evacuate in that
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 30 2:58 PM
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                        Peter suggests Kearsage Pass (? miles to Onion Valley and Independence) rather than Bubbs Creek (14 miles to SEKI Roads End) if you need to evacuate in that general area (Vidette Meadows) .  I don't disagree, especially since transportation from the trailhead is usually easier at Onion Valley than at Roads End for most people.  I suppose the main reason to prefer Bubbs would be that it would be all downhill from Vidette while Kearsage would be an up-and-over route.  So if you had an altitude illness problem (which Jim's question suggested) or a injury that was making it easier to go downhill, rather than up, or if you wanted to find the fastest possible EMT attention (ranger station at Roads End, not at Onion Valley) Bubbs might work better.  I think the takehome message here is to carry maps (and or a cheatsheet of bailout options) and consider the pluses and minuses of the various options.

                        John Curran Ladd
                        1616 Castro Street
                        San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                        415-648-9279


                        On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:


                        On 4/30/2010 12:04 PM, John Ladd wrote:
                         


                        Another westward-headed exit route would be the other end of the Rae Lakes loop, down from Vidette Meadow (mile 180) to roads end via Bubbs creek 14 miles - again lots of people, and all a steady downhill.  Pretty easy to do in one day and if you are hurting their are campsites (except for the first 3 miles where it is so steep there are no good campsites). No bad stream crossings.

                        if you're on the JMT and hurting in that area, I'd say head out over Kearsarge - much faster, expecially if you're southbound at that time.





                      • mikehillster
                        If you re heading south, taking the Woods Creek Trail to Roads End would mean that you wouldn t have to go over Glen Pass.
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 30 3:14 PM
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                          If you're heading south, taking the Woods Creek Trail to Roads End would mean that you wouldn't have to go over Glen Pass.

                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Peter suggests Kearsage Pass (? miles to Onion Valley and Independence)
                          > rather than Bubbs Creek (14 miles to SEKI Roads End) if you need to evacuate
                          > in that general area (Vidette Meadows) . I don't disagree, especially since
                          > transportation from the trailhead is usually easier at Onion Valley than at
                          > Roads End for most people. I suppose the main reason to prefer Bubbs would
                          > be that it would be all downhill from Vidette while Kearsage would be an
                          > up-and-over route. So if you had an altitude illness problem (which Jim's
                          > question suggested) or a injury that was making it easier to go downhill,
                          > rather than up, or if you wanted to find the fastest possible EMT attention
                          > (ranger station at Roads End, not at Onion Valley) Bubbs might work better.
                          > I think the takehome message here is to carry maps (and or a cheatsheet of
                          > bailout options) and consider the pluses and minuses of the various options.
                          >
                          > John Curran Ladd
                          > 1616 Castro Street
                          > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                          > 415-648-9279
                          >
                          >
                          > On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On 4/30/2010 12:04 PM, John Ladd wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Another westward-headed exit route would be the other end of the Rae Lakes
                          > > loop, down from Vidette Meadow (mile 180) to roads end via Bubbs creek 14
                          > > miles - again lots of people, and all a steady downhill. Pretty easy to do
                          > > in one day and if you are hurting their are campsites (except for the first
                          > > 3 miles where it is so steep there are no good campsites). No bad stream
                          > > crossings.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > if you're on the JMT and hurting in that area, I'd say head out over
                          > > Kearsarge - much faster, expecially if you're southbound at that time.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                        • Peter Burke
                          ... When you are coming off Glen Pass southbound, Kearsarge is 2 miles to the west at the first intersection, and barely a few hundred feet up. Don t go down
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 30 3:16 PM
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                            On 4/30/2010 4:58 PM, John Ladd wrote:  

                            Peter suggests Kearsage Pass (? miles to Onion Valley and Independence) rather than Bubbs Creek (14 miles to SEKI Roads End) if you need to evacuate in that general area (Vidette Meadows) .  I don't disagree, especially since transportation from the trailhead is usually easier at Onion Valley than at Roads End for most people.  I suppose the main reason to prefer Bubbs would be that it would be all downhill from Vidette while Kearsage would be an up-and-over route.  So if you had an altitude illness problem (which Jim's question suggested) or a injury that was making it easier to go downhill, rather than up, or if you wanted to find the fastest possible EMT attention (ranger station at Roads End, not at Onion Valley) Bubbs might work better.  I think the takehome message here is to carry maps (and or a cheatsheet of bailout options) and consider the pluses and minuses of the various options.


                            When you are coming off Glen Pass southbound, Kearsarge is 2 miles to the west at the first intersection, and barely a few hundred feet up. Don't go down to Vidette if you need to hike out. at that point. Much faster. I resupplied once at Onion Valley and don't recall spending much time at all on that cutoff route at all. Nice view down to Bullfrog Lake that stays well below that trail.

                            Peter

                          • ed_rodriguez52@yahoo.com
                            Yea that right. Off the top of my head I want to say its around 11 (down hill) to roads end Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ... From:
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 30 3:22 PM
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                              Yea that right. Off the top of my head I want to say its around 11 (down hill) to roads end

                              Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


                              From: "mikehillster" <mikehillster@...>
                              Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2010 22:14:22 -0000
                              To: <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                              Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Contingency planning; exit routes

                               



                              If you're heading south, taking the Woods Creek Trail to Roads End would mean that you wouldn't have to go over Glen Pass.

                              --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, John Ladd <johnladd@.. .> wrote:
                              >
                              > Peter suggests Kearsage Pass (? miles to Onion Valley and Independence)
                              > rather than Bubbs Creek (14 miles to SEKI Roads End) if you need to evacuate
                              > in that general area (Vidette Meadows) . I don't disagree, especially since
                              > transportation from the trailhead is usually easier at Onion Valley than at
                              > Roads End for most people. I suppose the main reason to prefer Bubbs would
                              > be that it would be all downhill from Vidette while Kearsage would be an
                              > up-and-over route. So if you had an altitude illness problem (which Jim's
                              > question suggested) or a injury that was making it easier to go downhill,
                              > rather than up, or if you wanted to find the fastest possible EMT attention
                              > (ranger station at Roads End, not at Onion Valley) Bubbs might work better.
                              > I think the takehome message here is to carry maps (and or a cheatsheet of
                              > bailout options) and consider the pluses and minuses of the various options.
                              >
                              > John Curran Ladd
                              > 1616 Castro Street
                              > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                              > 415-648-9279
                              >
                              >
                              > On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:02 PM, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > On 4/30/2010 12:04 PM, John Ladd wrote:
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > Another westward-headed exit route would be the other end of the Rae Lakes
                              > > loop, down from Vidette Meadow (mile 180) to roads end via Bubbs creek 14
                              > > miles - again lots of people, and all a steady downhill. Pretty easy to do
                              > > in one day and if you are hurting their are campsites (except for the first
                              > > 3 miles where it is so steep there are no good campsites). No bad stream
                              > > crossings.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > if you're on the JMT and hurting in that area, I'd say head out over
                              > > Kearsarge - much faster, expecially if you're southbound at that time.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >

                            • John
                              Jim Eastside exits are almost always better; the only real exceptions are from the south fork of the San Joaquin and Mono Creek where eastside exits are much
                              Message 14 of 16 , Apr 30 5:22 PM
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                                Jim

                                Eastside exits are almost always better; the only real exceptions are from the south fork of the San Joaquin and Mono Creek where eastside exits are much longer than those to the west.

                                I wouldn't count on an immediate ride from any of the southern eastside passes with the exception of Kearsarge. People do come and go but not daily (though cell service on Verizon should be good at most of those trailheads). Although the "terrible four" (Taboose, Sawmill, Baxter, Shephard) can all be done as day hikes (up and back), they are fairly serious undertakings for the average hiker.

                                You can pretty much count on regular traffic from trailheads below the following eastside passes; Mammoth, Duck, McGee, Mono, Piute, Lamarck Col, Bishop and Kearsarge.

                                JD
                                Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                www.johndittli.com

                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Jim Underwood <underwoodjjd@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Has anyone taken some time to determine some contingency planning re: potential exit routes (other than the obvious resupply points) in the event of a medical emergency, etc.? If so, I'd appreciate some advice. Looking to work this info into my maps. I'd esp like to determine some good points of exit at lower elevation in the event there is any serious AMS issues and a need arose to get lower and exit.
                                >
                                > I am not sure if the Harrison maps are sufficient for this purpose or if another overlay map would be better (any suggestions if so, please). Thanks.
                                >
                              • Jim Underwood
                                Appreciate all the insights on this issue, thanks! ________________________________ From: John To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                                Message 15 of 16 , Apr 30 5:34 PM
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                                  Appreciate all the insights on this issue, thanks!



                                  From: John <shop@...>
                                  To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Fri, April 30, 2010 5:22:23 PM
                                  Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Contingency planning; exit routes

                                   

                                  Jim

                                  Eastside exits are almost always better; the only real exceptions are from the south fork of the San Joaquin and Mono Creek where eastside exits are much longer than those to the west.

                                  I wouldn't count on an immediate ride from any of the southern eastside passes with the exception of Kearsarge. People do come and go but not daily (though cell service on Verizon should be good at most of those trailheads). Although the "terrible four" (Taboose, Sawmill, Baxter, Shephard) can all be done as day hikes (up and back), they are fairly serious undertakings for the average hiker.

                                  You can pretty much count on regular traffic from trailheads below the following eastside passes; Mammoth, Duck, McGee, Mono, Piute, Lamarck Col, Bishop and Kearsarge.

                                  JD
                                  Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                  www.johndittli. com

                                  --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, Jim Underwood <underwoodjjd@ ...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Has anyone taken some time to determine some contingency planning re: potential exit routes (other than the obvious resupply points) in the event of a medical emergency, etc.? If so, I'd appreciate some advice. Looking to work this info into my maps. I'd esp like to determine some good points of exit at lower elevation in the event there is any serious AMS issues and a need arose to get lower and exit.
                                  >
                                  > I am not sure if the Harrison maps are sufficient for this purpose or if another overlay map would be better (any suggestions if so, please). Thanks.
                                  >


                                • judy
                                  At Kearsage there is good cell phone reception (ATT and I believe Verizon, possibly others) both above (on the trail) and below (on the road) the trail head,
                                  Message 16 of 16 , May 1, 2010
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                                    At Kearsage there is good cell phone reception (ATT and I believe Verizon, possibly others) both above (on the trail) and below (on the road) the trail head, but not at the trail head itself. The trail from the JMT is excellent. It is a busy trail head with a fair number of day hikers (ie potential rides to Independence) and a forest service campground (with an on site host).
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