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Footware

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  • Barbara
    Seeing the picture with all the snow prompted this question about footware. waterproof ( Gortex ) or no waterproof? What say ye? And why ye say it? b
    Message 1 of 16 , Jan 22, 2010
      Seeing the picture with all the snow prompted this question about footware.

      waterproof ("Gortex") or no waterproof? What say ye? And why ye say it?

      b
    • Peter Burke
      ... I use La Sportiva Trangos - after the last three JMTs, I think I found the perfect boot for my needs (carry large pack, go anywhere, don t worry about
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 22, 2010
        Barbara wrote:
        >
        >
        > Seeing the picture with all the snow prompted this question about
        > footware.
        >
        > waterproof ("Gortex") or no waterproof? What say ye? And why ye say it?
        >
        > b
        >
        >

        I use La Sportiva Trangos - after the last three JMTs, I think I found
        the perfect boot for my needs (carry large pack, go anywhere, don't
        worry about ankles, use crampons if needed, light, waterproof, comfy)

        http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/La-Sportiva-Trango-S-EVO-GTX-Mountaineering-Boot-Mens/LSP0021M.html

        my son used trail runners and gaitors last year, and constantly had wet
        feet, plus the snow was near impossible for him to cross. He wiped out
        every 100 steps. This year he wants "real boots" again.
      • Roleigh Martin
        I will be using Keen Mid-Targhee II boots, 1 lb apiece, light, but very sturdy and very boot-like and yes, it has a waterproof breathable coating something
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 22, 2010
          I  will be using Keen Mid-Targhee II boots, 1 lb apiece, light, but very sturdy and very boot-like and yes, it has a "waterproof breathable" coating something akin to goretext (Keen-Dry).  I know the downside of this is if you get water inside the boot, it is harder to dry the boot out.  The upside is unless you fall into water, water won't get inside the boot.  I bring water-treading sandels along for when I have to tred water.  I only needed it at 2 crossings last year.  Did Peter or Ed say they needed to remove boots at 5 points, what are the 5, I know about Evolution Meadow, Bear Creek.  What are the others?

          On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:
           

          Barbara wrote:
          >
          >
          > Seeing the picture with all the snow prompted this question about
          > footware.
          >
          > waterproof ("Gortex") or no waterproof? What say ye? And why ye say it?
          >
          > b
          >
          >

          I use La Sportiva Trangos - after the last three JMTs, I think I found
          the perfect boot for my needs (carry large pack, go anywhere, don't
          worry about ankles, use crampons if needed, light, waterproof, comfy)

          http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/La-Sportiva-Trango-S-EVO-GTX-Mountaineering-Boot-Mens/LSP0021M.html

          my son used trail runners and gaitors last year, and constantly had wet
          feet, plus the snow was near impossible for him to cross. He wiped out
          every 100 steps. This year he wants "real boots" again.


        • Barbara Karagosian
          Lowa Renegade, GTX, mid height, most comfy boot ever for my wide, psycho feet- post bunion surgery, neuroma, etc. I take out the insole and put custom made
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 22, 2010
            Lowa Renegade, GTX, mid height, most comfy boot ever for my wide, psycho feet- post bunion surgery, neuroma, etc. I take out the insole and put custom made orthotics in; many people use Superfeet or similar. 

            Tried many others-I wish Keens suited me cos I love them and their wide toe boxes, but my feet were killing me after a 10 miler up and down Baldy.  Merrill Ventilators were too flimsy.  

            My husband has Asolos, and likes those.  It's totally YMMV, but for the Sierra, I prefer Goretex.   

            Barbara

            On Jan 22, 2010, at 12:50 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:

             

            I  will be using Keen Mid-Targhee II boots, 1 lb apiece, light, but very sturdy and very boot-like and yes, it has a "waterproof breathable" coating something akin to goretext (Keen-Dry).  I know the downside of this is if you get water inside the boot, it is harder to dry the boot out.  The upside is unless you fall into water, water won't get inside the boot.  I bring water-treading sandels along for when I have to tred water.  I only needed it at 2 crossings last year.  Did Peter or Ed say they needed to remove boots at 5 points, what are the 5, I know about Evolution Meadow, Bear Creek.  What are the others?

            On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Peter Burke <pburke@doit.wisc.edu> wrote:
             

            Barbara wrote:
            >
            >
            > Seeing the picture with all the snow prompted this question about
            > footware.
            >
            > waterproof ("Gortex") or no waterproof? What say ye? And why ye say it?
            >
            > b
            >
            >

            I use La Sportiva Trangos - after the last three JMTs, I think I found
            the perfect boot for my needs (carry large pack, go anywhere, don't
            worry about ankles, use crampons if needed, light, waterproof, comfy)

            http://www.backcoun try.com/outdoorg ear/La-Sportiva- Trango-S- EVO-GTX-Mountain eering-Boot- Mens/LSP0021M. html

            my son used trail runners and gaitors last year, and constantly had wet
            feet, plus the snow was near impossible for him to cross. He wiped out
            every 100 steps. This year he wants "real boots" again.


          • Peter Burke
            ... late 80s drought hikes - only one time shoe remove 2008 normal year - 2 times 2009, about 25 times for the entire trip - too many to bother to list here.
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 22, 2010
              Roleigh Martin wrote:
              >
              >
              > I only needed it at 2 crossings last year. Did Peter or Ed say they
              > needed to remove boots at 5 points, what are the 5, I know about
              > Evolution Meadow, Bear Creek. What are the others?
              >

              late 80s drought hikes - only one time shoe remove
              2008 normal year - 2 times
              2009, about 25 times for the entire trip - too many to bother to list here.
            • Barbara Karagosian
              Oh and I also bring crocs Off road style for water crossings and camp shoes. They re the ones with an adjustable Velcro heel strap so they re very secure.
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 22, 2010
                Oh and I also bring crocs "Off road" style for water crossings and camp shoes. They're the ones with an adjustable Velcro heel strap so they're very secure. Got them on sale. 

                Barbara

                On Jan 22, 2010, at 12:36 PM, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:

                 

                Barbara wrote:
                >
                >
                > Seeing the picture with all the snow prompted this question about
                > footware.
                >
                > waterproof ("Gortex") or no waterproof? What say ye? And why ye say it?
                >
                > b
                >
                >

                I use La Sportiva Trangos - after the last three JMTs, I think I found
                the perfect boot for my needs (carry large pack, go anywhere, don't
                worry about ankles, use crampons if needed, light, waterproof, comfy)

                http://www.backcoun try.com/outdoorg ear/La-Sportiva- Trango-S- EVO-GTX-Mountain eering-Boot- Mens/LSP0021M. html

                my son used trail runners and gaitors last year, and constantly had wet
                feet, plus the snow was near impossible for him to cross. He wiped out
                every 100 steps. This year he wants "real boots" again.

              • ed_rodriguez52@yahoo.com
                I owen a pair of Merrell Radius Waterproof Cross-Training Shoes. This will be my first time hiking with these shoes so far all my training hike they are
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 22, 2010
                  I owen a pair of Merrell Radius Waterproof Cross-Training Shoes. This will be my first time hiking with these shoes so far all my training hike they are working nice. Going to use gaitors as I cross the snow fields. The reason I chose these is because my plan in to hike the PCT in 2013 and needed to see how these work along the JMT.

                  Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


                  From: "Barbara" <bgomoll@...>
                  Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2010 20:24:09 -0000
                  To: <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                  Subject: [John Muir Trail] Footware

                   

                  Seeing the picture with all the snow prompted this question about footware.

                  waterproof ("Gortex") or no waterproof? What say ye? And why ye say it?

                  b

                • jmaddog1082@charter.net
                  In the past, I ve used Merrels because they absolutely fit my feet perfect right outta the box (regardless of what model). I ve had experience with the
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 22, 2010
                    In the past, I've used Merrels because they absolutely fit my feet perfect right outta the box (regardless of what model). I've had experience with the Passage Ventilator (not waterproof), the Moab Ventilators (not waterproof), and the Moab Ventilator GTX (GoreTex & 24oz/pr) over the past year (all low-tops). I've also have some workhorse Montrail Torre GTX that I use for local winter jaunts.

                    In both Sierra trips and the warm hikes here in So Cal, I was surprised to find that I really did not perceive any extra heat retention or breath-ability differences (although I'm sure it could be scientifically measured as such) between the GTX and non-GTX versions of the same shoe. That being said, I will opt for the GoreTex models in future footwear.

                    Speaking of which, I just got a new pair of Merrel Chameleon 3 Ventilator GTX's in a mid top (23 oz/pr) that I will most likely use for all of this year's journeys. Too many old soccer injuries to my ankles have taken their toll and have caused me to consider at least a mid-top and deep heel cup (eg. Superfeet inserts) for added ankle support without adding unnecessary weight.

                    Summary: Yes or GoreTex for me

                    J

                    ---- Barbara <bgomoll@...> wrote:
                    > Seeing the picture with all the snow prompted this question about footware.
                    >
                    > waterproof ("Gortex") or no waterproof? What say ye? And why ye say it?
                    >
                    > b
                    >
                  • Peter Burke
                    Crossing shoes can be super light, you don t use them very often - I ve seen people haul Crocks around - WHY? Because some fat chef on the food channel wears
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 22, 2010
                      Crossing shoes can be super light, you don't use them very often - I've
                      seen people haul Crocks around - WHY? Because some fat chef on the food
                      channel wears them?

                      I have a pair of these - cheap, lasted two JMTs already, super light,
                      don't float away

                      http://www.sprintaquatics.com/prodinfo.asp?number=901

                      100 grams or 3.5 ounces for the pair in size 11
                    • John Ladd
                      Heavily-treated Asolo boots. If you really work the waterproofing into the boot, you can walk thru water (so long as you do not overtop the boot) and they
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 22, 2010
                        Heavily-treated Asolo boots.  If you really work the waterproofing into the boot, you can walk thru water (so long as you do not overtop the boot) and they stay dry on the inside.  There are many crossings where I'd overtop trail runners but don't overtop my boots.  I.e., if a flat rock is submerged by 5 inches, I can use it to rockhop and stay dry, while a runner would overtop and get soaked.

                        Gaiters - short in the summer, higher ones if I expect a lot of postholing into deep snow (e.g., June travel).  They are primarily to keep snow out of boots, but they also keep trail debris out, minimizing blister risks.

                        Velcro-backed crocs for crossinbgs where there is a risk of overtopped boots.  Also use as an in-camp shoe.

                        Multiple pairs of socks.  If I do get the boots wet, I change socks every hour and hang the wet socks to dry on the pack.  The socks gradually wick the water out of the boot.

                        I think trail runners are a serious mistake.  Maybe you can go uphill faster with trail runners, but you'll go downhill faster in boots as they (with trekking poles) give you enough stability to move fast.  When I was hiking with many PCT thru-hikers in 2008, I saw lots of really bad feet that I suspect were caused by constantly walking in wet trainers.  (The PCT group tends to wear runners and just walk thru streams on the theory that they will dry out by themselves.)  Since blisters literally can not heal when your feet are wet, they get bad blisters which never heal and soon have blisters on top of blisters.  Ugly.


                        John Curran Ladd
                        1616 Castro Street
                        San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                        415-648-9279


                        On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Barbara <bgomoll@...> wrote:
                         

                        Seeing the picture with all the snow prompted this question about footware.

                        waterproof ("Gortex") or no waterproof? What say ye? And why ye say it?

                        b


                      • Roleigh Martin
                        These are what I used in 2009 too - they did work http://www.sprintaquatics.com/prodinfo.asp?number=901
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 22, 2010
                          These are what I used in 2009 too - they did work
                           
                           
                          On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 3:39 PM, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:
                           

                          Crossing shoes can be super light, you don't use them very often - I've
                          seen people haul Crocks around - WHY? Because some fat chef on the food
                          channel wears them?

                          I have a pair of these - cheap, lasted two JMTs already, super light,
                          don't float away

                          http://www.sprintaquatics.com/prodinfo.asp?number=901

                          100 grams or 3.5 ounces for the pair in size 11


                        • John Ladd
                          ... John: When you compare weights, remember that some stream-crossers will absorb water (and thus are heavier in practice than they weigh in the store) while
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 22, 2010
                            On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Crossing shoes can be super light, you don't use them very often - I've
                            > seen people haul Crocks around - WHY? Because some fat chef on the food
                            > channel wears them?
                            >
                            > I have a pair of these - cheap, lasted two JMTs already, super light,
                            > don't float away
                            >
                            > http://www.sprintaquatics.com/prodinfo.asp?number=901
                            >
                            > 100 grams or 3.5 ounces for the pair in size 11

                            John: When you compare weights, remember that some stream-crossers
                            will absorb water (and thus are heavier in practice than they weigh in
                            the store) while Crocs don't absorb water, so the weight you buy them
                            at is the weight you carry them at. I'm sure the crossing shoes Peter
                            mentions are lighter than crocs, even wet, but if you are comparing
                            Keene sandals to crocs, you have to take water weight into account
                            because the Keens will absorb water weight and the crocs won't.

                            I don't know the specific water shoes Peter mentions, but I did
                            formerly use ones that looked similar and switched to the Crocs
                            because they feel much more secure when crossing over submerged rocks.
                            Also stream-crossers that absorb water make poor shoes for campsite
                            use because they may still be wet from your last crossing, while the
                            Crocs will be dry. Dry feet in camp help any blisters to heal.

                            Out of curiosity, I weighed my Crocs just now at 7.5 oz. each. Worth
                            it to me; may not be for you.


                            John Ladd
                          • Rebecca Sowards-Emmerd
                            I ve always been fine with lightweight hikers or trailrunners. I just wear them through stream crossings and they dry quickly. Never had blister or foot
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 22, 2010
                              I've always been fine with lightweight hikers or trailrunners. I just wear them through stream crossings and they dry quickly. Never had blister or foot problems since I switched to this solution. I have crocs for in-camp wear but I've never felt the need to put them on for stream crossings. 

                              I like a trailrunner or light hiker with good tread for traction on the widely varying terrain (snow to granite to gravel to mud) - so far my favorites are a pair of vegan shoes made by garmont - unfortunately I don't see them on their site anymore. They were a good combination of a real hiker-style sole with the nice mesh upper - no breaking in, dried fast, were light weight, and as comfortable as a perfect running shoe. 

                              One year I was wearing a heavier style shoe and had my husband switch them out for me at a resupply point. I wanted my trailrunners!  Like everything, though, it's a personal choice. I can't imagine wearing a heavy boot like the La Sportiva Trangos - I'd get about a mile before calling it quits. 

                               

                              On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 12:24 PM, Barbara <bgomoll@...> wrote:
                               

                              Seeing the picture with all the snow prompted this question about footware.

                              waterproof ("Gortex") or no waterproof? What say ye? And why ye say it?

                              b


                            • Peter Burke
                              ... the above shoes do not absorb water
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 23, 2010
                                John Ladd wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Peter Burke <pburke@...
                                > <mailto:pburke%40doit.wisc.edu>> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Crossing shoes can be super light, you don't use them very often - I've
                                > > seen people haul Crocks around - WHY? Because some fat chef on the food
                                > > channel wears them?
                                > >
                                > > I have a pair of these - cheap, lasted two JMTs already, super light,
                                > > don't float away
                                > >
                                > > http://www.sprintaquatics.com/prodinfo.asp?number=901
                                > <http://www.sprintaquatics.com/prodinfo.asp?number=901>
                                > >
                                > > 100 grams or 3.5 ounces for the pair in size 11
                                >
                                > John: When you compare weights, remember that some stream-crossers
                                > will absorb water (and thus are heavier in practice than they weigh in
                                > the store) while Crocs don't absorb water,
                                >
                                the above shoes do not absorb water
                              • Peter Burke
                                ... I know I d break my ankle in those comfy trail runners. There have been many moments over the years I know the boots paid off. I consider the added 16
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jan 23, 2010
                                  Rebecca Sowards-Emmerd wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > One year I was wearing a heavier style shoe and had my husband switch
                                  > them out for me at a resupply point. I wanted my trailrunners! Like
                                  > everything, though, it's a personal choice. I can't imagine wearing a
                                  > heavy boot like the La Sportiva Trangos - I'd get about a mile before
                                  > calling it quits.
                                  >
                                  >

                                  I know I'd break my ankle in those comfy trail runners. There have been
                                  many moments over the years I know the boots paid off. I consider the
                                  added 16 ounces the price to pay for safety. Don't even feel them. They
                                  weigh much less that my old Meindl boots and never had to be broken in.
                                  They will last for another 3 or 4 JMT's before a new sole can be put on
                                  them, while my son tore up a $130 pair of North Face trail runners in
                                  less than 200 miles last summer. - this year we are buying boots for him
                                  again, and that's not even due to their abysmal performance on snow
                                  <insert comical slip and fall on butt video here>, the fact that he had
                                  to use his crossing shoes almost everywhere when we still got away with
                                  our gore-tex boots, nor even the fact that he was the only one with
                                  blisters (because he eventually did get wet feet in snow), but because
                                  he saw them fall apart on his feet in just a few days and was constantly
                                  worried that we'd have to hike out mid trail because the soles were
                                  peeling off.

                                  The only reason why most can actually get away with the use of trail
                                  runners (a glorified term for "heavy running shoes") is the nature of
                                  the JMT - it compares to "normal" hiking trails you'd find in Europe
                                  like an 8 lane highway to a country road. It is way overbuilt for the
                                  handful of horse users. For the most part it doesn't really challenge
                                  your ankles that much, although I am sure there are still 10,000 places
                                  where you can get in trouble. I hike off trail, alternate routes like
                                  sections of the Sierra High Route, and that's the last place you want to
                                  get in trouble with the wrong shoes, even if some sponsored ultra runner
                                  dude will tell you he had no problems doing that with his sponsor's
                                  footwear.

                                  It could be worse than trail runners, though - I saw people hiking in
                                  sandals last year. Did I ever have a laugh when they told me it took
                                  them 90 minutes to make it across the last snow field on Silver Pass,
                                  something that didn't even register as a change of pace with my boots.
                                  We even saw somebody hike in these:
                                  http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/products/products_footwear.cfm?CFID=5821575&CFTOKEN=39255057

                                  "experience the sensation and freedom of going barefoot with the
                                  protection and sure-footed grip"

                                  I'd rather have a fork stuck in my eye than experience the JMT barefoot.
                                  what will they come up with next? ::-)
                                • skdupre
                                  Keen s fit my feet better than any other boot (as in no blisters). I did wear my Keen Voyageur last weekend in a 2+hr downpour. The dried the following day,
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jan 23, 2010
                                    Keen's fit my feet better than any other boot (as in no blisters). I did wear my Keen Voyageur last weekend in a 2+hr downpour. The dried the following day, but I may took at getting a pair of the Targhee. The Voyageur fit better and really hugged my foot and is lighter. But, the JMT in July will likely throw me some rain.....

                                    skd

                                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I will be using Keen Mid-Targhee II boots, 1 lb apiece, light, but very
                                    > sturdy and very boot-like and yes, it has a "waterproof breathable" coating
                                    > something akin to goretext (Keen-Dry). I know the downside of this is if
                                    > you get water inside the boot, it is harder to dry the boot out. The upside
                                    > is unless you fall into water, water won't get inside the boot. I bring
                                    > water-treading sandels along for when I have to tred water. I only needed
                                    > it at 2 crossings last year. Did Peter or Ed say they needed to remove
                                    > boots at 5 points, what are the 5, I know about Evolution Meadow, Bear
                                    > Creek. What are the others?
                                    >
                                    > On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 2:36 PM, Peter Burke <pburke@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Barbara wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Seeing the picture with all the snow prompted this question about
                                    > > > footware.
                                    > > >
                                    > > > waterproof ("Gortex") or no waterproof? What say ye? And why ye say it?
                                    > > >
                                    > > > b
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > > I use La Sportiva Trangos - after the last three JMTs, I think I found
                                    > > the perfect boot for my needs (carry large pack, go anywhere, don't
                                    > > worry about ankles, use crampons if needed, light, waterproof, comfy)
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/La-Sportiva-Trango-S-EVO-GTX-Mountaineering-Boot-Mens/LSP0021M.html
                                    > >
                                    > > my son used trail runners and gaitors last year, and constantly had wet
                                    > > feet, plus the snow was near impossible for him to cross. He wiped out
                                    > > every 100 steps. This year he wants "real boots" again.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
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