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A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge

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  • Roleigh Martin
    At Wikipedia, they have a 1907 picture of John Muir on the trail that is royalty free and in the commons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:John_Muir_Cane.JPG
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 5, 2010
    At Wikipedia, they have a 1907 picture of John Muir on the trail that is royalty free and in the commons.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:John_Muir_Cane.JPG

    Description

    John Muir, American conservationist.

    Date

    1907(1907)

    Source

    http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/tf2r29p09b&brand=calisphere

    Author

    Francis M. Fritz



    This media file is in the public domain in the United States. This applies to U.S. works where the copyright has expired, often because its first publication occurred prior to January 1, 1923. See this page for further explanation.

    I see where the original photo I did, somehow they removed the human being part of the photo, made it transparent, flipped it left-to-right, and backgrounded it with Half Dome.  I don't know how to do that, but anyway here is what I could do with Corel Paint Shop Pro X2.

    The cost for making a button is about the same price as a patch.  For quantity 20, rectangular, 1.75" x 2.75" (smallest rectangle size), price is $2.12 apiece (42.44 for batch).

    I only looked at one web page. http://www.affordablebuttons.com/index2.php

    For quantity 10, the price is $2.25 apiece (22.50 for batch).

    Setup is free!

    This is so cheap, that we could as a group just agree on the wording and we could go for a variety of designs, each to our own preference.  Just one idea.

    Personally, I'm all for a more talented artist taking this royalty free photo and doing a better job on it that I did. 

    I have a friend in the graphics art business that I bet would help.  Can we just for now agree on the wording, regardless if we go for patch or button?


  • Roleigh Martin
    I found out minimum qty order is for 10 buttons.
    Message 2 of 20 , Jan 5, 2010
    I found out minimum qty order is for 10 buttons.

    On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
    At Wikipedia, they have a 1907 picture of John Muir on the trail that is royalty free and in the commons.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:John_Muir_Cane.JPG

    DescriptionJohn Muir Cane.JPG

    John Muir, American conservationist.

    Date

    1907(1907)

    Source

    http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/tf2r29p09b&brand=calisphere

    Author

    Francis M. Fritz



    This media file is in the public domain in the United States. This applies to U.S. works where the copyright has expired, often because its first publication occurred prior to January 1, 1923. See this page for further explanation.

    I see where the original photo I did, somehow they removed the human being part of the photo, made it transparent, flipped it left-to-right, and backgrounded it with Half Dome.  I don't know how to do that, but anyway here is what I could do with Corel Paint Shop Pro X2.

    The cost for making a button is about the same price as a patch.  For quantity 20, rectangular, 1.75" x 2.75" (smallest rectangle size), price is $2.12 apiece (42.44 for batch).

    I only looked at one web page. http://www.affordablebuttons.com/index2.php

    For quantity 10, the price is $2.25 apiece (22.50 for batch).

    Setup is free!

    This is so cheap, that we could as a group just agree on the wording and we could go for a variety of designs, each to our own preference.  Just one idea.

    Personally, I'm all for a more talented artist taking this royalty free photo and doing a better job on it that I did. 

    I have a friend in the graphics art business that I bet would help.  Can we just for now agree on the wording, regardless if we go for patch or button?



  • Jean Dickinson
    I m new to the group, but I think a button with this pix is a great idea. Count me in. Jean To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com From: roleigh@pobox.com Date:
    Message 3 of 20 , Jan 5, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      I'm new to the group, but I think a button with this pix is a great idea. Count me in.
      Jean
       

      To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      From: roleigh@...
      Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 20:28:11 -0600
      Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge [1 Attachment]

       
      [Attachment(s) from Roleigh Martin included below] I found out minimum qty order is for 10 buttons.

      On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@pobox. com> wrote:
      At Wikipedia, they have a 1907 picture of John Muir on the trail that is royalty free and in the commons.

      http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:John_ Muir_Cane. JPG

      DescriptionJohn Muir Cane.JPG

      John Muir, American conservationist.

      Date 1907(1907)
      Source http://content. cdlib.org/ ark:/13030/ tf2r29p09b&brand=calisphere
      Author Francis M. Fritz


      This media file is in the public domain in the United States. This applies to U.S. works where the copyright has expired, often because its first publication occurred prior to January 1, 1923. See this page for further explanation.

      I see where the original photo I did, somehow they removed the human being part of the photo, made it transparent, flipped it left-to-right, and backgrounded it with Half Dome.  I don't know how to do that, but anyway here is what I could do with Corel Paint Shop Pro X2.

      The cost for making a button is about the same price as a patch.  For quantity 20, rectangular, 1.75" x 2.75" (smallest rectangle size), price is $2.12 apiece (42.44 for batch).

      I only looked at one web page. http://www.affordab lebuttons. com/index2. php

      For quantity 10, the price is $2.25 apiece (22.50 for batch).

      Setup is free!

      This is so cheap, that we could as a group just agree on the wording and we could go for a variety of designs, each to our own preference.  Just one idea.

      Personally, I'm all for a more talented artist taking this royalty free photo and doing a better job on it that I did. 

      I have a friend in the graphics art business that I bet would help.  Can we just for now agree on the wording, regardless if we go for patch or button?




    • ed_rodriguez52@yahoo.com
      Where do I send my money. Like the idea of just the photo, no words or JMTYG. We will all know who is part of the group. Looking forward to see that on my
      Message 4 of 20 , Jan 5, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Where do I send my money. Like the idea of just the photo, no words or JMTYG. We will all know who is part of the group. Looking forward to see that on my travels this year. Count me in

        Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


        From: Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...>
        Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 20:28:11 -0600
        To: John Muir Trail YahooGroups<johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
        Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge [1 Attachment]

         

        I found out minimum qty order is for 10 buttons.

        On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@pobox. com> wrote:
        At Wikipedia, they have a 1907 picture of John Muir on the trail that is royalty free and in the commons.

        http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:John_ Muir_Cane. JPG

        DescriptionJohn Muir Cane.JPG

        John Muir, American conservationist.

        Date

        1907(1907)

        Source

        http://content. cdlib.org/ ark:/13030/ tf2r29p09b&brand=calisphere

        Author

        Francis M. Fritz



        This media file is in the public domain in the United States. This applies to U.S. works where the copyright has expired, often because its first publication occurred prior to January 1, 1923. See this page for further explanation.

        I see where the original photo I did, somehow they removed the human being part of the photo, made it transparent, flipped it left-to-right, and backgrounded it with Half Dome.  I don't know how to do that, but anyway here is what I could do with Corel Paint Shop Pro X2.

        The cost for making a button is about the same price as a patch.  For quantity 20, rectangular, 1.75" x 2.75" (smallest rectangle size), price is $2.12 apiece (42.44 for batch).

        I only looked at one web page. http://www.affordab lebuttons. com/index2. php

        For quantity 10, the price is $2.25 apiece (22.50 for batch).

        Setup is free!

        This is so cheap, that we could as a group just agree on the wording and we could go for a variety of designs, each to our own preference.  Just one idea.

        Personally, I'm all for a more talented artist taking this royalty free photo and doing a better job on it that I did. 

        I have a friend in the graphics art business that I bet would help.  Can we just for now agree on the wording, regardless if we go for patch or button?



      • David Carbiener
        Hi Everyone, I ve been reading this thread and have enjoyed everyone s input. I successfully completed the JMT in 08 and I m serious thinking about going for
        Message 5 of 20 , Jan 5, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Hi Everyone,
           
          I've been reading this thread and have enjoyed everyone's input.  I successfully completed the JMT in 08 and I'm serious thinking about going for a 2010 trip.  I like the pin idea the best and would gladly purchase one for the cause.  Thanks, David
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:26 PM
          Subject: [John Muir Trail] A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge [1 Attachment]

           

          At Wikipedia, they have a 1907 picture of John Muir on the trail that is royalty free and in the commons.

          http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:John_ Muir_Cane. JPG

          DescriptionJohn Muir Cane.JPG

          John Muir, American conservationist.

          Date

          1907(1907)

          Source

          http://content. cdlib.org/ ark:/13030/ tf2r29p09b&brand=calisphere

          Author

          Francis M. Fritz



          This media file is in the public domain in the United States. This applies to U.S. works where the copyright has expired, often because its first publication occurred prior to January 1, 1923. See this page for further explanation.

          I see where the original photo I did, somehow they removed the human being part of the photo, made it transparent, flipped it left-to-right, and backgrounded it with Half Dome.  I don't know how to do that, but anyway here is what I could do with Corel Paint Shop Pro X2.

          The cost for making a button is about the same price as a patch.  For quantity 20, rectangular, 1.75" x 2.75" (smallest rectangle size), price is $2.12 apiece (42.44 for batch).

          I only looked at one web page. http://www.affordab lebuttons. com/index2. php

          For quantity 10, the price is $2.25 apiece (22.50 for batch).

          Setup is free!

          This is so cheap, that we could as a group just agree on the wording and we could go for a variety of designs, each to our own preference.  Just one idea.

          Personally, I'm all for a more talented artist taking this royalty free photo and doing a better job on it that I did. 

          I have a friend in the graphics art business that I bet would help.  Can we just for now agree on the wording, regardless if we go for patch or button?


        • John Ladd
          Copyright has expired on the photo, so I ll include it in this post for those of us who can see images: [image: John_Muir_Cane.JPG] I m assuming that it could
          Message 6 of 20 , Jan 5, 2010
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            Copyright has expired on the photo, so I'll include it in this post for those of us who can see images:

            John_Muir_Cane.JPG

            I'm assuming that it could be cropped to a circle roughly of this part of the picture.

            ?ui=2&view=att&th=12601dde0a6318a3&attid=0.1&disp=attd&realattid=ii_12601dde0a6318a3&zw

            Would make a nice button.  I like the idea of just the simple image - no "advertising" for the group.

            Thanks Roleigh.

            John Curran Ladd
            1616 Castro Street
            San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
            415-648-9279

          • Barbara Karagosian
            I like it too – great photo! Barbara _____ From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Ladd Sent: Tuesday,
            Message 7 of 20 , Jan 5, 2010
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              I like it too – great photo!  Barbara

               


              From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of John Ladd
              Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 8:23 PM
              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge

               

               

              Copyright has expired on the photo, so I'll include it in this post for those of us who can see images:

              John_Muir_Cane.JPG

              I'm assuming that it could be cropped to a circle roughly of this part of the picture.

              ?ui=2&view=att&th=12601dde0a6318a3&attid=0.1&disp=attd&realattid=ii_12601dde0a6318a3&zw

              Would make a nice button.  I like the idea of just the simple image - no "advertising" for the group.

              Thanks Roleigh.

              John Curran Ladd
              1616 Castro Street
              San Francisco , CA   94114-3707
              415-648-9279

            • Roleigh Martin
              Once again, I am persuaded by Ed. As a compromise between no wording and only a picture, the idea of an acronym subtly there serves both purposes. It is
              Message 8 of 20 , Jan 5, 2010
              Once again, I am persuaded by Ed.  As a compromise between no wording and only a picture, the idea of an acronym subtly there serves both purposes.  It is strictly non-advertising, yet it invites one to ask a question.  How about this?  (it is a circle button attached).  I hope it only shows up as a circle, but the idea is the button would be a circle one.  As cheap as they are, we could have 10 made with the acronym and 10 made without any acronym, if we only have 20 who want to buy one.  We should get a head count.  I say we offer both styles.  Plain and with acronym.  I like "YMT@YG"




            • ed_rodriguez52@yahoo.com
              Put me down for one of each Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry® ... From: Roleigh Martin Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 23:32:54
              Message 9 of 20 , Jan 5, 2010
              • 0 Attachment
                Put me down for one of each

                Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®


                From: Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...>
                Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 23:32:54 -0600
                To: <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge [1 Attachment]

                 

                Once again, I am persuaded by Ed.  As a compromise between no wording and only a picture, the idea of an acronym subtly there serves both purposes.  It is strictly non-advertising, yet it invites one to ask a question.  How about this?  (it is a circle button attached).  I hope it only shows up as a circle, but the idea is the button would be a circle one.  As cheap as they are, we could have 10 made with the acronym and 10 made without any acronym, if we only have 20 who want to buy one.  We should get a head count.  I say we offer both styles.  Plain and with acronym.  I like "YMT@YG"




              • David Carbiener
                I ll take one with JMT@YG. ... From: Roleigh Martin To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:32 PM Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail]
                Message 10 of 20 , Jan 5, 2010
                • 0 Attachment
                  I'll take one with JMT@YG.
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 9:32 PM
                  Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge [1 Attachment]

                   

                  Once again, I am persuaded by Ed.  As a compromise between no wording and only a picture, the idea of an acronym subtly there serves both purposes.  It is strictly non-advertising, yet it invites one to ask a question.  How about this?  (it is a circle button attached).  I hope it only shows up as a circle, but the idea is the button would be a circle one.  As cheap as they are, we could have 10 made with the acronym and 10 made without any acronym, if we only have 20 who want to buy one.  We should get a head count.  I say we offer both styles.  Plain and with acronym.  I like "YMT@YG"




                • Michael
                  My son (maybe two) and I will be on the trail late July/Early August. Like the idea of the button. Count me in for three (3). No preference about the
                  Message 11 of 20 , Jan 5, 2010
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                    My son (maybe two) and I will be on the trail late July/Early August. Like the idea of the button. Count me in for three (3). No preference about the wording. Happy to share in all costs. I will watch for an address.

                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, ed_rodriguez52@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Where do I send my money. Like the idea of just the photo, no words or JMTYG. We will all know who is part of the group. Looking forward to see that on my travels this year. Count me in
                    > Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...>
                    > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 20:28:11
                    > To: John Muir Trail YahooGroups<johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                    > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge [1 Attachment]
                    >
                    > I found out minimum qty order is for 10 buttons.
                    >
                    > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > > At Wikipedia, they have a 1907 picture of John Muir on the trail that is
                    > > royalty free and in the commons.
                    > >
                    > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:John_Muir_Cane.JPG
                    > >
                    > > Description John Muir Cane.JPG
                    > >
                    > > John Muir <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Muir>, American
                    > > conservationist.
                    > > Date
                    > >
                    > > 1907(1907)
                    > > Source
                    > >
                    > > http://content.cdlib.org/ark:/13030/tf2r29p09b&brand=calisphere
                    > > Author
                    > >
                    > > Francis M. Fritz
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > *This media file is in the public domain<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/public_domain>in the United
                    > > States <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/United_States>. This applies to
                    > > U.S. works where the copyright has expired, often because its first
                    > > publication <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/publication> occurred prior to
                    > > January 1, 1923. See this page<http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/public_domain/>for further explanation.
                    > >
                    > > I see where the original photo I did, somehow they removed the human being
                    > > part of the photo, made it transparent, flipped it left-to-right, and
                    > > backgrounded it with Half Dome. I don't know how to do that, but anyway
                    > > here is what I could do with Corel Paint Shop Pro X2.
                    > >
                    > > The cost for making a button is about the same price as a patch. For
                    > > quantity 20, rectangular, 1.75" x 2.75" (smallest rectangle size), price is
                    > > $2.12 apiece (42.44 for batch).
                    > >
                    > > I only looked at one web page. http://www.affordablebuttons.com/index2.php
                    > >
                    > > For quantity 10, the price is $2.25 apiece (22.50 for batch).
                    > >
                    > > Setup is free!
                    > >
                    > > This is so cheap, that we could as a group just agree on the wording and we
                    > > could go for a variety of designs, each to our own preference. Just one
                    > > idea.
                    > >
                    > > Personally, I'm all for a more talented artist taking this royalty free
                    > > photo and doing a better job on it that I did.
                    > >
                    > > I have a friend in the graphics art business that I bet would help. Can we
                    > > just for now agree on the wording, regardless if we go for patch or button?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > *
                    >
                  • Todd Sharp
                    I ll take two without. I go by the old saying: A picture is worth a Thousand words . ... From: Roleigh Martin Subject: [John Muir Trail] A
                    Message 12 of 20 , Jan 6, 2010
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                      I'll take two without. I go by the old saying: "A picture is worth a Thousand words".


                      --- On Tue, 1/5/10, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:

                      From: Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...>
                      Subject: [John Muir Trail] A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge [1 Attachment]
                      To: "John Muir Trail YahooGroups" <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 9:26 PM

                       
                      At Wikipedia, they have a 1907 picture of John Muir on the trail that is royalty free and in the commons.

                      http://en.wikipedia .org/wiki/ File:John_ Muir_Cane. JPG

                      DescriptionJohn Muir Cane.JPG
                      John Muir, American conservationist.
                      Date
                      1907(1907)
                      Source
                      Author
                      Francis M. Fritz


                      This media file is in the public domain in the United States. This applies to U.S. works where the copyright has expired, often because its first publication occurred prior to January 1, 1923. See this page for further explanation.

                      I see where the original photo I did, somehow they removed the human being part of the photo, made it transparent, flipped it left-to-right, and backgrounded it with Half Dome.  I don't know how to do that, but anyway here is what I could do with Corel Paint Shop Pro X2.

                      The cost for making a button is about the same price as a patch.  For quantity 20, rectangular, 1.75" x 2.75" (smallest rectangle size), price is $2.12 apiece (42.44 for batch).

                      I only looked at one web page. http://www.affordab lebuttons. com/index2. php

                      For quantity 10, the price is $2.25 apiece (22.50 for batch).

                      Setup is free!

                      This is so cheap, that we could as a group just agree on the wording and we could go for a variety of designs, each to our own preference.  Just one idea.

                      Personally, I'm all for a more talented artist taking this royalty free photo and doing a better job on it that I did. 

                      I have a friend in the graphics art business that I bet would help.  Can we just for now agree on the wording, regardless if we go for patch or button?



                    • John Ladd
                      Maybe we have consensus on a recognition device for the group? The acronym Roleigh proposes is so subtle, I find it hard to imagine anyone would have a problem
                      Message 13 of 20 , Jan 6, 2010
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                        Maybe we have consensus on a recognition device for the group?

                        The acronym Roleigh proposes is so subtle, I find it hard to imagine anyone would have a problem with it.  Just the black & white John Muir picture on a small (1.5 in. diameter?) circular pin with a red "JMT@YG" imprinted near the bottom of the circle.

                        Is there anyone out there who would NOT buy/wear this pin but who WOULD buy/wear wither a distinctive whistle or a patch?  If so, we could offer options.

                        If no one has any other proposals, I could set something up online to do a headcount of people who would be interested in buying one at maybe $5 apiece to cover the cost of the pin plus mailing and a little extra to allow for some inevitable losses.

                        Any volunteers to take care of mailing them out - I could but would rather not?  As far as I'm concerned you could keep the "profit" -- though maybe people would feel better about buying them if we donated all proceeds to some appropriate recipient (Yosemite Search & Rescue?). 

                        If we really wanted to maximize the distribution, we could allow people to order them by e-mail, mail it to them with a stamped return envelope requesting a $5 donation (profits to Yosemite S&R).  That way it's hassle-free to order it.  While some people would rip us off, the downside isn't that great.  I'd be happy to pay for the first 20 (100?) pins if I get to be the first one reimbursed after the person mailing them gets his/her envelope/postage costs returned.

                        In short: any receipts from the "sale" of the pins goes first to reimburse costs of envelopes and postage; then to reimburse me or whoever paid for the pins; then to Yosemite S&R.

                        Any volunteers to do the graphics? Or we could just use Roleigh's design.

                        John Curran Ladd
                        1616 Castro Street
                        San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                        415-648-9279
                      • Roleigh Martin
                        I m thinking minimum cost will be between $6 to $8 for these reasons: 1. cost of box 2. cost of postage 3. cost of metal (pin) button 4. cost of paypal
                        Message 14 of 20 , Jan 6, 2010
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                          I'm thinking minimum cost will be between $6 to $8 for these reasons:
                           
                          1.  cost of box
                          2.  cost of postage
                          3.  cost of metal (pin) button
                          4.  cost of paypal transaction fee
                          5.  cost of tax if buyer is in same state as seller, whatever.
                          7.  cost of headache of keeping track of transactions for the IRS and regardless of profit margin, there is the tax on that profit, even if it is a tax against a 10 cents profit
                          8.  obviously there is a transportation cost of seller to drive to post office weekly until demand is exhausted.  I propose sales are handled at least once a week.
                           
                          I have an ordinary paypal account.  Let's imagine I did the handling of this.  I'd have to upgrade my paypal account to handle numerous paypal transactions where there would be a fee per transaction.  That fee is item 4 above.
                           
                          I wonder if there are any button retailers online who'd take over the sales feature in exchange for being able to have a reasonable profit.  I can look into this.
                           
                          I think a final fee of $6-$8 that covers button and shipping/handling that would be charged by a button retailer would be acceptable?  Others?
                           
                          By the way, the color I had for the acronym is more orange than red.  I felt the Orange looked better with the browntown photo but still highly visible in a subtle way (notice it is not solid orange but borderish orange, with a transparency inside the acronym letters).
                           
                          On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                           

                          Maybe we have consensus on a recognition device for the group?

                          The acronym Roleigh proposes is so subtle, I find it hard to imagine anyone would have a problem with it.  Just the black & white John Muir picture on a small (1.5 in. diameter?) circular pin with a red "JMT@YG" imprinted near the bottom of the circle.

                          Is there anyone out there who would NOT buy/wear this pin but who WOULD buy/wear wither a distinctive whistle or a patch?  If so, we could offer options.

                          If no one has any other proposals, I could set something up online to do a headcount of people who would be interested in buying one at maybe $5 apiece to cover the cost of the pin plus mailing and a little extra to allow for some inevitable losses.

                          Any volunteers to take care of mailing them out - I could but would rather not?  As far as I'm concerned you could keep the "profit" -- though maybe people would feel better about buying them if we donated all proceeds to some appropriate recipient (Yosemite Search & Rescue?). 

                          If we really wanted to maximize the distribution, we could allow people to order them by e-mail, mail it to them with a stamped return envelope requesting a $5 donation (profits to Yosemite S&R).  That way it's hassle-free to order it.  While some people would rip us off, the downside isn't that great.  I'd be happy to pay for the first 20 (100?) pins if I get to be the first one reimbursed after the person mailing them gets his/her envelope/postage costs returned.

                          In short: any receipts from the "sale" of the pins goes first to reimburse costs of envelopes and postage; then to reimburse me or whoever paid for the pins; then to Yosemite S&R.

                          Any volunteers to do the graphics? Or we could just use Roleigh's design.



                          John Curran Ladd
                          1616 Castro Street
                          San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                          415-648-9279


                        • Barbara Karagosian
                          I d be happy to do mailing, however we set it up. Barbara
                          Message 15 of 20 , Jan 6, 2010
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                            I'd be happy to do mailing, however we set it up. 

                            Barbara

                            On Jan 6, 2010, at 9:11 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:

                             

                            Maybe we have consensus on a recognition device for the group?

                            The acronym Roleigh proposes is so subtle, I find it hard to imagine anyone would have a problem with it.  Just the black & white John Muir picture on a small (1.5 in. diameter?) circular pin with a red "JMT@YG" imprinted near the bottom of the circle.

                            Is there anyone out there who would NOT buy/wear this pin but who WOULD buy/wear wither a distinctive whistle or a patch?  If so, we could offer options.

                            If no one has any other proposals, I could set something up online to do a headcount of people who would be interested in buying one at maybe $5 apiece to cover the cost of the pin plus mailing and a little extra to allow for some inevitable losses.

                            Any volunteers to take care of mailing them out - I could but would rather not?  As far as I'm concerned you could keep the "profit" -- though maybe people would feel better about buying them if we donated all proceeds to some appropriate recipient (Yosemite Search & Rescue?). 

                            If we really wanted to maximize the distribution, we could allow people to order them by e-mail, mail it to them with a stamped return envelope requesting a $5 donation (profits to Yosemite S&R).  That way it's hassle-free to order it.  While some people would rip us off, the downside isn't that great.  I'd be happy to pay for the first 20 (100?) pins if I get to be the first one reimbursed after the person mailing them gets his/her envelope/postage costs returned.

                            In short: any receipts from the "sale" of the pins goes first to reimburse costs of envelopes and postage; then to reimburse me or whoever paid for the pins; then to Yosemite S&R.

                            Any volunteers to do the graphics? Or we could just use Roleigh's design.

                            John Curran Ladd
                            1616 Castro Street
                            San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                            415-648-9279

                          • David Carbiener
                            Maybe skip PayPal all together and just announce it on this forum. Get a head count for orders, have the pins sent to one person, and mail the pins as
                            Message 16 of 20 , Jan 6, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Maybe skip PayPal all together and just announce it on this forum.  Get a head count for orders, have the pins sent to one person, and mail the pins as personal checks / money orders are received.  Set the price to compensate the "main person" for their time, gas, cost of pin, and shipping, etc.  Let the "main person" decide what to do with the extra money.  If they want to keep it for their efforts then that is fine with me.  If they want to donate it then let that person receive the tax deduction benefit.
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:23 AM
                              Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge

                               

                              I'm thinking minimum cost will be between $6 to $8 for these reasons:
                               
                              1.  cost of box
                              2.  cost of postage
                              3.  cost of metal (pin) button
                              4.  cost of paypal transaction fee
                              5.  cost of tax if buyer is in same state as seller, whatever.
                              7.  cost of headache of keeping track of transactions for the IRS and regardless of profit margin, there is the tax on that profit, even if it is a tax against a 10 cents profit
                              8.  obviously there is a transportation cost of seller to drive to post office weekly until demand is exhausted.  I propose sales are handled at least once a week.
                               
                              I have an ordinary paypal account.  Let's imagine I did the handling of this.  I'd have to upgrade my paypal account to handle numerous paypal transactions where there would be a fee per transaction.  That fee is item 4 above.
                               
                              I wonder if there are any button retailers online who'd take over the sales feature in exchange for being able to have a reasonable profit.  I can look into this.
                               
                              I think a final fee of $6-$8 that covers button and shipping/handling that would be charged by a button retailer would be acceptable?  Others?
                               
                              By the way, the color I had for the acronym is more orange than red.  I felt the Orange looked better with the browntown photo but still highly visible in a subtle way (notice it is not solid orange but borderish orange, with a transparency inside the acronym letters).
                               
                              On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@gmail. com> wrote:
                               

                              Maybe we have consensus on a recognition device for the group?

                              The acronym Roleigh proposes is so subtle, I find it hard to imagine anyone would have a problem with it.  Just the black & white John Muir picture on a small (1.5 in. diameter?) circular pin with a red "JMT@YG" imprinted near the bottom of the circle.

                              Is there anyone out there who would NOT buy/wear this pin but who WOULD buy/wear wither a distinctive whistle or a patch?  If so, we could offer options.

                              If no one has any other proposals, I could set something up online to do a headcount of people who would be interested in buying one at maybe $5 apiece to cover the cost of the pin plus mailing and a little extra to allow for some inevitable losses.

                              Any volunteers to take care of mailing them out - I could but would rather not?  As far as I'm concerned you could keep the "profit" -- though maybe people would feel better about buying them if we donated all proceeds to some appropriate recipient (Yosemite Search & Rescue?). 

                              If we really wanted to maximize the distribution, we could allow people to order them by e-mail, mail it to them with a stamped return envelope requesting a $5 donation (profits to Yosemite S&R).  That way it's hassle-free to order it.  While some people would rip us off, the downside isn't that great.  I'd be happy to pay for the first 20 (100?) pins if I get to be the first one reimbursed after the person mailing them gets his/her envelope/postage costs returned.

                              In short: any receipts from the "sale" of the pins goes first to reimburse costs of envelopes and postage; then to reimburse me or whoever paid for the pins; then to Yosemite S&R.

                              Any volunteers to do the graphics? Or we could just use Roleigh's design.



                              John Curran Ladd
                              1616 Castro Street
                              San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                              415-648-9279


                            • Sim Ong
                              Hi, I like the pin button with John Muir picture (see John Ladd email).  1.5 inch button size should serve our purpose. Count me in.  One order. Thanks Sim
                              Message 17 of 20 , Jan 6, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi,
                                 
                                I like the pin button with John Muir picture (see John Ladd email).  1.5 inch button size should serve our purpose.
                                 
                                Count me in.  One order.
                                 
                                Thanks
                                 
                                Sim


                                From: David Carbiener <davecarb@...>
                                To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 9:37:01 AM
                                Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge

                                 

                                Maybe skip PayPal all together and just announce it on this forum.  Get a head count for orders, have the pins sent to one person, and mail the pins as personal checks / money orders are received.  Set the price to compensate the "main person" for their time, gas, cost of pin, and shipping, etc.  Let the "main person" decide what to do with the extra money.  If they want to keep it for their efforts then that is fine with me.  If they want to donate it then let that person receive the tax deduction benefit.
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:23 AM
                                Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge

                                 

                                I'm thinking minimum cost will be between $6 to $8 for these reasons:
                                 
                                1.  cost of box
                                2.  cost of postage
                                3.  cost of metal (pin) button
                                4.  cost of paypal transaction fee
                                5.  cost of tax if buyer is in same state as seller, whatever.
                                7.  cost of headache of keeping track of transactions for the IRS and regardless of profit margin, there is the tax on that profit, even if it is a tax against a 10 cents profit
                                8.  obviously there is a transportation cost of seller to drive to post office weekly until demand is exhausted.  I propose sales are handled at least once a week.
                                 
                                I have an ordinary paypal account.  Let's imagine I did the handling of this.  I'd have to upgrade my paypal account to handle numerous paypal transactions where there would be a fee per transaction.  That fee is item 4 above.
                                 
                                I wonder if there are any button retailers online who'd take over the sales feature in exchange for being able to have a reasonable profit.  I can look into this.
                                 
                                I think a final fee of $6-$8 that covers button and shipping/handling that would be charged by a button retailer would be acceptable?  Others?
                                 
                                By the way, the color I had for the acronym is more orange than red.  I felt the Orange looked better with the browntown photo but still highly visible in a subtle way (notice it is not solid orange but borderish orange, with a transparency inside the acronym letters).
                                 
                                On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@gmail. com> wrote:
                                 

                                Maybe we have consensus on a recognition device for the group?

                                The acronym Roleigh proposes is so subtle, I find it hard to imagine anyone would have a problem with it.  Just the black & white John Muir picture on a small (1.5 in. diameter?) circular pin with a red "JMT@YG" imprinted near the bottom of the circle.

                                Is there anyone out there who would NOT buy/wear this pin but who WOULD buy/wear wither a distinctive whistle or a patch?  If so, we could offer options.

                                If no one has any other proposals, I could set something up online to do a headcount of people who would be interested in buying one at maybe $5 apiece to cover the cost of the pin plus mailing and a little extra to allow for some inevitable losses.

                                Any volunteers to take care of mailing them out - I could but would rather not?  As far as I'm concerned you could keep the "profit" -- though maybe people would feel better about buying them if we donated all proceeds to some appropriate recipient (Yosemite Search & Rescue?). 

                                If we really wanted to maximize the distribution, we could allow people to order them by e-mail, mail it to them with a stamped return envelope requesting a $5 donation (profits to Yosemite S&R).  That way it's hassle-free to order it.  While some people would rip us off, the downside isn't that great.  I'd be happy to pay for the first 20 (100?) pins if I get to be the first one reimbursed after the person mailing them gets his/her envelope/postage costs returned.

                                In short: any receipts from the "sale" of the pins goes first to reimburse costs of envelopes and postage; then to reimburse me or whoever paid for the pins; then to Yosemite S&R.

                                Any volunteers to do the graphics? Or we could just use Roleigh's design.



                                John Curran Ladd
                                1616 Castro Street
                                San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                415-648-9279


                              • Roleigh Martin
                                In a way, paypal is as much a convenience to the seller as to the buyer, it saves the hassle of depositing paper checks. I need to review my paypal setup.
                                Message 18 of 20 , Jan 6, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  In a way, paypal is as much a convenience to the seller as to the buyer, it saves the hassle of depositing paper checks.  I need to review my paypal setup.  For awhile paypal nagged me to become a step-up account owner and I don't remember if I did it or not, I was selling a lot of backpacking stuff on BPL -- most sales on BPL are via paypal.  The free Paypal account allows only a couple of sales transactions per period without upgrading the account.

                                  On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:37 AM, David Carbiener <davecarb@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Maybe skip PayPal all together and just announce it on this forum.  Get a head count for orders, have the pins sent to one person, and mail the pins as personal checks / money orders are received.  Set the price to compensate the "main person" for their time, gas, cost of pin, and shipping, etc.  Let the "main person" decide what to do with the extra money.  If they want to keep it for their efforts then that is fine with me.  If they want to donate it then let that person receive the tax deduction benefit.
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:23 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge

                                   

                                  I'm thinking minimum cost will be between $6 to $8 for these reasons:
                                   
                                  1.  cost of box
                                  2.  cost of postage
                                  3.  cost of metal (pin) button
                                  4.  cost of paypal transaction fee
                                  5.  cost of tax if buyer is in same state as seller, whatever.
                                  7.  cost of headache of keeping track of transactions for the IRS and regardless of profit margin, there is the tax on that profit, even if it is a tax against a 10 cents profit
                                  8.  obviously there is a transportation cost of seller to drive to post office weekly until demand is exhausted.  I propose sales are handled at least once a week.
                                   
                                  I have an ordinary paypal account.  Let's imagine I did the handling of this.  I'd have to upgrade my paypal account to handle numerous paypal transactions where there would be a fee per transaction.  That fee is item 4 above.
                                   
                                  I wonder if there are any button retailers online who'd take over the sales feature in exchange for being able to have a reasonable profit.  I can look into this.
                                   
                                  I think a final fee of $6-$8 that covers button and shipping/handling that would be charged by a button retailer would be acceptable?  Others?
                                   
                                  By the way, the color I had for the acronym is more orange than red.  I felt the Orange looked better with the browntown photo but still highly visible in a subtle way (notice it is not solid orange but borderish orange, with a transparency inside the acronym letters).
                                   
                                  On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  Maybe we have consensus on a recognition device for the group?

                                  The acronym Roleigh proposes is so subtle, I find it hard to imagine anyone would have a problem with it.  Just the black & white John Muir picture on a small (1.5 in. diameter?) circular pin with a red "JMT@YG" imprinted near the bottom of the circle.

                                  Is there anyone out there who would NOT buy/wear this pin but who WOULD buy/wear wither a distinctive whistle or a patch?  If so, we could offer options.

                                  If no one has any other proposals, I could set something up online to do a headcount of people who would be interested in buying one at maybe $5 apiece to cover the cost of the pin plus mailing and a little extra to allow for some inevitable losses.

                                  Any volunteers to take care of mailing them out - I could but would rather not?  As far as I'm concerned you could keep the "profit" -- though maybe people would feel better about buying them if we donated all proceeds to some appropriate recipient (Yosemite Search & Rescue?). 

                                  If we really wanted to maximize the distribution, we could allow people to order them by e-mail, mail it to them with a stamped return envelope requesting a $5 donation (profits to Yosemite S&R).  That way it's hassle-free to order it.  While some people would rip us off, the downside isn't that great.  I'd be happy to pay for the first 20 (100?) pins if I get to be the first one reimbursed after the person mailing them gets his/her envelope/postage costs returned.

                                  In short: any receipts from the "sale" of the pins goes first to reimburse costs of envelopes and postage; then to reimburse me or whoever paid for the pins; then to Yosemite S&R.

                                  Any volunteers to do the graphics? Or we could just use Roleigh's design.



                                  John Curran Ladd
                                  1616 Castro Street
                                  San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                  415-648-9279



                                • David Carbiener
                                  I agree PayPal is convenient, but I was hoping no one would have to upgrade their account and pay more for it. I know it is unwise to send cash in the mail,
                                  Message 19 of 20 , Jan 6, 2010
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I agree PayPal is convenient, but I was hoping no one would have to upgrade their account and pay more for it.
                                    I know it is unwise to send cash in the mail, but that would be another option.  The sender could pay for a confirmation and/or tracking if they wanted to.  I would assume the people in this group are honest since we are all like minded and have one goal in mind.  I wouldn't have a problem with this option too.

                                    --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:

                                    From: Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...>
                                    Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge
                                    To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 11:38 AM

                                     
                                    In a way, paypal is as much a convenience to the seller as to the buyer, it saves the hassle of depositing paper checks.  I need to review my paypal setup.  For awhile paypal nagged me to become a step-up account owner and I don't remember if I did it or not, I was selling a lot of backpacking stuff on BPL -- most sales on BPL are via paypal.  The free Paypal account allows only a couple of sales transactions per period without upgrading the account.

                                    On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:37 AM, David Carbiener <davecarb@sbcglobal. net> wrote:
                                     
                                    Maybe skip PayPal all together and just announce it on this forum.  Get a head count for orders, have the pins sent to one person, and mail the pins as personal checks / money orders are received.  Set the price to compensate the "main person" for their time, gas, cost of pin, and shipping, etc.  Let the "main person" decide what to do with the extra money.  If they want to keep it for their efforts then that is fine with me.  If they want to donate it then let that person receive the tax deduction benefit.
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 9:23 AM
                                    Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge

                                     
                                    I'm thinking minimum cost will be between $6 to $8 for these reasons:
                                     
                                    1.  cost of box
                                    2.  cost of postage
                                    3.  cost of metal (pin) button
                                    4.  cost of paypal transaction fee
                                    5.  cost of tax if buyer is in same state as seller, whatever.
                                    7.  cost of headache of keeping track of transactions for the IRS and regardless of profit margin, there is the tax on that profit, even if it is a tax against a 10 cents profit
                                    8.  obviously there is a transportation cost of seller to drive to post office weekly until demand is exhausted.  I propose sales are handled at least once a week.
                                     
                                    I have an ordinary paypal account.  Let's imagine I did the handling of this.  I'd have to upgrade my paypal account to handle numerous paypal transactions where there would be a fee per transaction.  That fee is item 4 above.
                                     
                                    I wonder if there are any button retailers online who'd take over the sales feature in exchange for being able to have a reasonable profit.  I can look into this.
                                     
                                    I think a final fee of $6-$8 that covers button and shipping/handling that would be charged by a button retailer would be acceptable?  Others?
                                     
                                    By the way, the color I had for the acronym is more orange than red.  I felt the Orange looked better with the browntown photo but still highly visible in a subtle way (notice it is not solid orange but borderish orange, with a transparency inside the acronym letters).
                                     
                                    On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@gmail. com> wrote:
                                     
                                    Maybe we have consensus on a recognition device for the group?

                                    The acronym Roleigh proposes is so subtle, I find it hard to imagine anyone would have a problem with it.  Just the black & white John Muir picture on a small (1.5 in. diameter?) circular pin with a red "JMT@YG" imprinted near the bottom of the circle.

                                    Is there anyone out there who would NOT buy/wear this pin but who WOULD buy/wear wither a distinctive whistle or a patch?  If so, we could offer options.

                                    If no one has any other proposals, I could set something up online to do a headcount of people who would be interested in buying one at maybe $5 apiece to cover the cost of the pin plus mailing and a little extra to allow for some inevitable losses.

                                    Any volunteers to take care of mailing them out - I could but would rather not?  As far as I'm concerned you could keep the "profit" -- though maybe people would feel better about buying them if we donated all proceeds to some appropriate recipient (Yosemite Search & Rescue?). 

                                    If we really wanted to maximize the distribution, we could allow people to order them by e-mail, mail it to them with a stamped return envelope requesting a $5 donation (profits to Yosemite S&R).  That way it's hassle-free to order it.  While some people would rip us off, the downside isn't that great.  I'd be happy to pay for the first 20 (100?) pins if I get to be the first one reimbursed after the person mailing them gets his/her envelope/postage costs returned.

                                    In short: any receipts from the "sale" of the pins goes first to reimburse costs of envelopes and postage; then to reimburse me or whoever paid for the pins; then to Yosemite S&R.

                                    Any volunteers to do the graphics? Or we could just use Roleigh's design.


                                    John Curran Ladd
                                    1616 Castro Street
                                    San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                    415-648-9279


                                  • Nube Brown
                                    Love this button! Although, is it too late to say I d rather have it plain? Most importantly I want to thank all of you for creating this and I ll take the
                                    Message 20 of 20 , Jan 7, 2010
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Love this button! Although, is it too late to say I'd rather have it plain? Most importantly I want to thank all of you for creating this and I'll take the button with or without the acronym. 
                                      Nube

                                      --- On Wed, 1/6/10, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:

                                      From: Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...>
                                      Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: A royalty free, copyright version of a John Muir Trail badge
                                      To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                      Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 5:23 PM

                                       
                                      I'm thinking minimum cost will be between $6 to $8 for these reasons:
                                       
                                      1.  cost of box
                                      2.  cost of postage
                                      3.  cost of metal (pin) button
                                      4.  cost of paypal transaction fee
                                      5.  cost of tax if buyer is in same state as seller, whatever.
                                      7.  cost of headache of keeping track of transactions for the IRS and regardless of profit margin, there is the tax on that profit, even if it is a tax against a 10 cents profit
                                      8.  obviously there is a transportation cost of seller to drive to post office weekly until demand is exhausted.  I propose sales are handled at least once a week.
                                       
                                      I have an ordinary paypal account.  Let's imagine I did the handling of this.  I'd have to upgrade my paypal account to handle numerous paypal transactions where there would be a fee per transaction.  That fee is item 4 above.
                                       
                                      I wonder if there are any button retailers online who'd take over the sales feature in exchange for being able to have a reasonable profit.  I can look into this.
                                       
                                      I think a final fee of $6-$8 that covers button and shipping/handling that would be charged by a button retailer would be acceptable?  Others?
                                       
                                      By the way, the color I had for the acronym is more orange than red.  I felt the Orange looked better with the browntown photo but still highly visible in a subtle way (notice it is not solid orange but borderish orange, with a transparency inside the acronym letters).
                                       
                                      On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 11:11 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@gmail. com> wrote:
                                       
                                      Maybe we have consensus on a recognition device for the group?

                                      The acronym Roleigh proposes is so subtle, I find it hard to imagine anyone would have a problem with it.  Just the black & white John Muir picture on a small (1.5 in. diameter?) circular pin with a red "JMT@YG" imprinted near the bottom of the circle.

                                      Is there anyone out there who would NOT buy/wear this pin but who WOULD buy/wear wither a distinctive whistle or a patch?  If so, we could offer options.

                                      If no one has any other proposals, I could set something up online to do a headcount of people who would be interested in buying one at maybe $5 apiece to cover the cost of the pin plus mailing and a little extra to allow for some inevitable losses.

                                      Any volunteers to take care of mailing them out - I could but would rather not?  As far as I'm concerned you could keep the "profit" -- though maybe people would feel better about buying them if we donated all proceeds to some appropriate recipient (Yosemite Search & Rescue?). 

                                      If we really wanted to maximize the distribution, we could allow people to order them by e-mail, mail it to them with a stamped return envelope requesting a $5 donation (profits to Yosemite S&R).  That way it's hassle-free to order it.  While some people would rip us off, the downside isn't that great.  I'd be happy to pay for the first 20 (100?) pins if I get to be the first one reimbursed after the person mailing them gets his/her envelope/postage costs returned.

                                      In short: any receipts from the "sale" of the pins goes first to reimburse costs of envelopes and postage; then to reimburse me or whoever paid for the pins; then to Yosemite S&R.

                                      Any volunteers to do the graphics? Or we could just use Roleigh's design.


                                      John Curran Ladd
                                      1616 Castro Street
                                      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                      415-648-9279


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