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RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Ideal JMT Sleeping Bag (July 12 - Aug 4)

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  • Jean Dickinson
    I appreciate this group and have been reading posts for a few weeks now. I m curious about whether anyone has used a Nunatak bag, specifically the Arc Alpinist
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 2, 2010
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      I appreciate this group and have been reading posts for a few weeks now.
       
      I'm curious about whether anyone has used a Nunatak bag, specifically the Arc Alpinist (+20 degrees) at 20 oz.  and $387 or the Arc Specialist (+32 degrees) at 16 oz. and $362. I've had a Marmot bag for years, but it is 3.4 pounds and I must trim my packload considerably to stay out anywhere near the two or three weeks I used to be on the trail. I'm curious about these particular bags, because they are built around a whole different concept -- more like a quilt, but not exactly. Also, I'm not sure if either would be warm enough for the JMT in early September. Thanks in advance for any comments.
       
      Jean
       

      To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      From: barbara@...
      Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 12:17:12 -0800
      Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: Ideal JMT Sleeping Bag (July 12 - Aug 4)

       
      Hi John,
      I'm interested why you take a bivy sack and a tent?  Is it to protect the down bag in deluges or for star sleeping?!  Thanks, B
      PS. Still loving the book!

      Barbara

      On Jan 2, 2010, at 9:52 AM, "John" <shop@johndittli. com> wrote:

       

      I use a 800 fill 24oz bag for all my summer Sierra trips. The bag has no side baffle so all the down may be shifted to top when needed. I am a warm sleeper. If the nights get cold I wear more cloths inside, camp low if need be. Remember that a tent adds significant "warmth" to the ambient air temperature.
      Last August I was a little chilly camped below Forester Pass when the temps fell to the teens. This is rare and usually won't last more than a day or two.

      I usually take a tarp and a bivi sack, the latter also adds warmth. On my '08 JMT hike I literally sat out a 3 hour deluge at Guitar Lake that turned to an all night drizzle, I was wishing I had a tent! (the same cell that flooded Independence)

      John Dittli
      Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
      www.johndittli. com

      --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, "skdupre" <duprelufkin@ ...> wrote:
      >
      > Obviously over the course of 3 weeks the JMT is going to have a variety of weather. I've heard of 90's in the valley and freezing temps above 10k ft. I have a 2 lb 45 degree bag and a 4 lb 0 degree bag. I'm considering forking down the bucks for a Big Agnes 20 degree bag at 30 oz.
      >
      > It would be nice to hear from JMT veterans and those planning a 2010 thru hike.
      >



    • Barbara Karagosian
      Thanks for the clarification John - Barbara _____ From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Sent: Saturday,
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 2, 2010
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        Thanks for the clarification John - Barbara

         


        From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
        Sent: Saturday, January 02, 2010 12:48 PM
        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Ideal JMT Sleeping Bag (July 12 - Aug 4)

         

         


        Sorry for the confusion, but I don't take a bivy and a tent. On shorter trips (up to a week) I just take the bivy. On longer trips I like having something incase it decides to rain for a couple of days straight, so I have a light weight tarp. I like sleeping "out" so I use the bivy 99% of the time; helps keep thermarest from puncture, takes care of dew, light rain and bugs as well as adds warmth. But it gets old (and damp) waiting out Pacific storms in a bivy.

        On solo trips I like to curl up in nooks and crannies, bivisacks are nice for that as well.

        A light weight 1 person tent would probably be comparable in weight, but I don't own one (and I have 3 bivisacks!)

        I should also note I only do this in the Sierra and other "desert" ranges.

        One last note. When I go with Leslie we use a similar bag that I opened into a comforter and sewed on a light bottom to hold our pads. She likes a tent, so our two person sleeping system; tent, 3/4 thermarests, bag, weighs ~7lb total. This could be lighter using a non freestanding tent and the new "foamless" pads.

        Glad your still enjoying the book

        Hope that clarifies

        John Dittli
        Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
        www.johndittli. com

        John
        --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, Barbara Karagosian <barbara@... > wrote:

        >
        > Hi John,
        > I'm interested why you take a bivy sack and a tent? Is it to protect
        > the down bag in deluges or for star sleeping?! Thanks, B
        > PS. Still loving the book!
        >
        > Barbara
        >
        > On Jan 2, 2010, at 9:52 AM, "John" <shop@...> wrote:
        >
        > > I use a 800 fill 24oz bag for all my summer Sierra trips. The bag
        > > has no side baffle so all the down may be shifted to top when
        > > needed. I am a warm sleeper. If the nights get cold I wear more
        > > cloths inside, camp low if need be. Remember that a tent adds
        > > significant "warmth" to the ambient air temperature.
        > > Last August I was a little chilly camped below Forester Pass when
        > > the temps fell to the teens. This is rare and usually won't last
        > > more than a day or two.
        > >
        > > I usually take a tarp and a bivi sack, the latter also adds warmth.
        > > On my '08 JMT hike I literally sat out a 3 hour deluge at Guitar
        > > Lake that turned to an all night
        drizzle, I was wishing I had a
        > > tent! (the same cell that flooded
        w:st="on">Independence )
        > >
        > > John Dittli
        > > Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
        > > www.johndittli. com
        > >
        > > --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com,
        "skdupre" <duprelufkin@ >
        > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > Obviously over the course of 3 weeks the JMT is going to have a
        > > variety of weather. I've heard of 90's in the valley and freezing
        > > temps above 10k ft. I have a 2 lb 45 degree bag and a 4 lb 0 degree
        > > bag. I'm considering forking down the bucks for a Big Agnes 20
        > > degree bag at 30 oz.
        > > >
        > > > It would be nice to hear from JMT veterans and those planning a
        > > 2010 thru hike.
        > > >
        > >
        > >
        >

      • Jack Young
        We used the ray jardine home sleeping quilt as we have for years. Ours is a mid weight and we decided that the next time we do the JMT we will use the alpine
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 3, 2010
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          We used the ray jardine home sleeping quilt as we have for years. Ours is a mid weight and we decided that the next time we do the JMT we will use the alpine upgrade....which we now have and just need to assemble. We hit the trail at an unseasonably cold time of the year...22 degrees just below Mather Pass. A friend that did the trail the week after us reported a very warm hike.

          http://www.ray-way.com/Quilt-Kit/index.htm

          Be well,
          Jack Young
        • Peter Burke
          Last year I almost bought a Western Mountaineering Versalite, which I conside the perfect bag for 3 season use in the Sierras, but the vendor could not deliver
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 3, 2010
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            Last year I almost bought a Western Mountaineering Versalite, which I
            conside the perfect bag for 3 season use in the Sierras, but the vendor
            could not deliver so I had to grab something at the local REI just
            before the trip.

            I bought the REI Halo (for much less $ than the Versalite) and have been
            quite happy with it. Rated 25 degrees, it was ok even in the coldest
            nights later in September up at Trail Camp below Whitney, when my tent
            was covered with ice inside and out, plus the moisture had settled on
            the top of the sleeping bag and was starting to get the down moist by
            early morning.

            In July, I think I only zipped it once on Muir Pass above 12,000 feet,
            and used it as a blanket for the rest of the hike. It sheds a tiny
            amount of down through its seems, but nothing to be worried about. My
            kids have the older REI Kilo bags and those have worked fine for them
            over two JMT summer trips and will go back next year for another one.
            All these bags pack extremely small and the loft comes back pretty
            quickly after you pull it out of the compression bag. The zipper doesn't
            snag and the hood really works well in cold nights. The cut isn't too
            confining which allows me to turn in the bag without the bag's lesser
            insulated bottom coming off my sleeping pad, but it isn't as comfortable
            as my old North Face Superlight (which weighs 1.5 pounds more....)

            I owned a Marmot Helium for a while but sold it because I didn't realize
            it had only a half length zipper (didn't pay attention when bidding on
            ebay). I'd say, the Halo is just as well made, weighs the same and costs
            a lot less.
          • Rebecca Sowards-Emmerd
            I ve used a MontBell UL SS Down Hugger #1 for 3 seasons now in the Sierra (1 JMT trip, 2 HST trips plus many other miscellaneous 2 day to 2 week sierra
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 3, 2010
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              I've used a MontBell UL SS Down Hugger #1 for 3 seasons now in the Sierra (1 JMT trip, 2 HST trips plus many other miscellaneous 2 day to 2 week sierra outings) and have found it to be absolutely perfect for Sierra summer conditions. It is rated to 15 degrees and weighs 2 lbs. Probably overkill for temp rating for most people, but I am a very cold sleeper and stay quite cozy in it. The nice thing is that those bags come in 9 different weights so you can pick one that best fits your needs. Super high quality - I haven't seen a feather leak yet, and it still lofts like the day I got it. It's going on probably 75+ bag nights.

              I tried the quilt style bags, but I usually sleep in tarptents, under tarps, or cowboy style and found the breeze that got in around the sides would chill me to the bone regardless of the quilt's temperature rating. They would be far more useful in a bivy or fully enclosed tent, but that kind of negates any weight savings, no? The MontBell keeps me warm regardless of if I'm sleeping in a tent or under the stars with a breeze. It vents quite well for the warmer nights too.

              - Rebecca



              On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 9:29 AM, skdupre <duprelufkin@...> wrote:
               

              Obviously over the course of 3 weeks the JMT is going to have a variety of weather. I've heard of 90's in the valley and freezing temps above 10k ft. I have a 2 lb 45 degree bag and a 4 lb 0 degree bag. I'm considering forking down the bucks for a Big Agnes 20 degree bag at 30 oz.

              It would be nice to hear from JMT veterans and those planning a 2010 thru hike.


            • skdupre
              Thanks for all the advice and comments. I decided to purchase the Big Agnes Zirkel rated at 20 degree, 30 oz.. I ve always like the idea of BA s design w/
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 4, 2010
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                Thanks for all the advice and comments. I decided to purchase the Big Agnes Zirkel rated at 20 degree, 30 oz.. I've always like the idea of BA's design w/ the pad sleeve built in to the bag. I'll report back in August on how it held up.

                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Rebecca Sowards-Emmerd <rebecca@...> wrote:
                >
                > I've used a MontBell UL SS Down Hugger #1 for 3 seasons now in the Sierra (1
                > JMT trip, 2 HST trips plus many other miscellaneous 2 day to 2 week sierra
                > outings) and have found it to be absolutely perfect for Sierra summer
                > conditions. It is rated to 15 degrees and weighs 2 lbs. Probably overkill
                > for temp rating for most people, but I am a very cold sleeper and stay quite
                > cozy in it. The nice thing is that those bags come in 9 different weights so
                > you can pick one that best fits your needs. Super high quality - I haven't
                > seen a feather leak yet, and it still lofts like the day I got it. It's
                > going on probably 75+ bag nights.
                >
                > I tried the quilt style bags, but I usually sleep in tarptents, under tarps,
                > or cowboy style and found the breeze that got in around the sides would
                > chill me to the bone regardless of the quilt's temperature rating. They
                > would be far more useful in a bivy or fully enclosed tent, but that kind of
                > negates any weight savings, no? The MontBell keeps me warm regardless of if
                > I'm sleeping in a tent or under the stars with a breeze. It vents quite well
                > for the warmer nights too.
                >
                > - Rebecca
                >
                > http://www.calipidder.com
                >
                >
                > On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 9:29 AM, skdupre <duprelufkin@...> wrote:
                >
                > >
                > >
                > > Obviously over the course of 3 weeks the JMT is going to have a variety of
                > > weather. I've heard of 90's in the valley and freezing temps above 10k ft. I
                > > have a 2 lb 45 degree bag and a 4 lb 0 degree bag. I'm considering forking
                > > down the bucks for a Big Agnes 20 degree bag at 30 oz.
                > >
                > > It would be nice to hear from JMT veterans and those planning a 2010 thru
                > > hike.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • John Ladd
                I gather skdupre already made his bag decision, but I ll add my 2 cents worth. (I ve been catching up afte Christmas, so have been uncharacteristicly quiet of
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 5, 2010
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                  I gather skdupre already made his bag decision, but I'll add my 2 cents worth.  (I've been catching up afte Christmas, so have been uncharacteristicly quiet of late).

                  I've decided that I'm happy with a satisfactory, rather than a perfect, bag.  For me, the REI Subkilo has worked well. 

                  Weighs 32 oz. 750-fill down.  Fairly tight mummy design.

                  REI has it on overstock sale right now - price reduced from $250 to $170.

                  http://www.rei.com/product/780902

                  It's rated for 20 degrees, though I think the ratings are rather fictional and in any case, people are very different in how much warmth they need. 

                  I've used it in seriously sub-freezing temperatures, though this may be because I use a hooped bivy, which is even warmer than a tent.  And with a silk liner and clothes inside the bag and occasionally (snow camping) with a double sleeping pad for extra protection from the cold ground. 

                  My theory: A lot of your warmth depends on decisions made other than the bag itself.  I think you can make almost any halfway-decent down bag work if you have the right other clothing/equipment and if you are religious about keeping the bag protected from all the forms of moisture (condensation as well as rain and falls into streams).

                  I suspect I could get away with a lighter-weight bag for the Sierra in summer, but I like the comfort of a warm bag and the safety of knowing that I can deal with unexpected bad conditions.

                  Like Barbara, I've had a good experience with the new (first available in 2009) Therm-A-Rest NeoAir pads.  Very comfortable, compact and lightweight (14 oz.). But pricey (about $150). And I continue to worry about durability (I've used mine only about 20 nights so far) and doubt that it gives particularly good insulation from the ground. 

                  John Curran Ladd
                  1616 Castro Street
                  San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                  415-648-9279

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