Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Florence lake Trailhead

Expand Messages
  • jckarpin
    I guess I was just lucky to have a positive experience during my visit or my expectations were not very high and consequently I was not disappointed. John
    Message 1 of 54 , Nov 23, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      I guess I was just lucky to have a positive experience during my visit or my expectations were not very high and consequently I was not disappointed.
      John

      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "don.amundson" <amrowinc@...> wrote:
      >
      > The backpackers area at Reds is "unusual" on a number of levels. I was not totally turned off by it but you have to be in a tolerant mode to stay there. I found it after asking a guy if he knew where it was. His reply was, "your in it." "In it" means three sites conveniently located at the intersection of all roads leading to all amenities including the hot showers (good), the parking area (not good), the trash dumpsters (not good), car campers (not good at the time). As I remember you get to pay full price for privilege of pitching your tent. The RV/Car campers were at their noisy best during my stay, including racing their remote control toy cars around the dusty roads in the camp. The noise level was only tolerable because I wear hearing aids and can turn off the sound. If you stay there you take your chances regarding your neighboring campers. If you can arrange it a stay at the resort (cabin or motel room) might be a better choice. Or, as others have suggested, you can always arrive early, take care of your needs and get back on the trail.
      >
      > Don
      >
      > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "jckarpin" <jckarpin@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Bob,
      > > I agree with you but after all, it is a car/rv camping campground. You have to except it on those terms of it will make you miserable. A partial solution would be to locate the BC in a more out-of-the-way place but you will never be far enough from disrespectful, inconsiderate people.
      > >
      > > John Karpinski
      > >
      > > ––it's the rest of the people out there and the general environment created that have always bugged me.
      > > >
      > > > Bob
      > > > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      > > > From: jckarpin@
      > > > Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:08:24 +0000
      > > > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Florence lake Trailhead
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Wow!
      > > >
      > > > My experience at the BC was quite the contrary. I arrived at about 10am having camped the previous night at Deer Creek. (solo nobo) I was too early for burgers so settled on breakfast and called my wife to check in. I headed to the camp, dropped my gear, and showered. I spent the rest of the day being a tourist and returned in the late afternoon. That afternoon/evening I had the greatest time talking to all sorts of backpackers, sharing experiences, gear, expectations.
      > > >
      > > > I was very crowded with nearly all patches of ground occupied. Maybe I was tired but I slept well, was up and out at 6am. I think my experience was at least partly due to the fact that I was hiking solo and enjoyed and appreciated the socialization.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > John Karpinski
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > > I suppose one noisy night couldn't be that bad, but why . . . the backpacker camp at Red's is located on a small squat of corner, just down the road from the showers and you're right across from an army of people in their motor homes and music boxes. It can be a long noisy night, with not only the music going, buy the usual yahoos whooping it up into the midnight hour.
      > > >
      > > > > Better still, none of these campers know how to actually walk, so even if they're only fifty yards from the showers, or they want to dump a ton of garbage in the noisy dumpsters––they drive up there, right past the BC.
      > > >
      > > > > There's also the late arrivals that have to grovel around all night, looking for parking. Did I mention bears? This has always been my regrettable experience at Red's . . . so get in, burger up, shower up, and then . . . scamper on out of there.
      > > >
      > > > > bob
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      > > >
      > > > > From: barbara@
      > > >
      > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:39:55 -0800
      > > >
      > > > > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Florence lake Trailhead
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Thanks Bob – is it that bad? Will keep it
      > > >
      > > > > in mind. I can't imagine you not scampering somewhere woodsy this summer J Barbara
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robert shattuck
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009
      > > >
      > > > > 4:16 PM
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail]
      > > >
      > > > > Florence lake Trailhead
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Barbara,
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > ON the trail next year? hmmmm . . . well, I've been thinking about
      > > >
      > > > > doing #10 in a year or two (keep thinking I'll find a real job and stick it out
      > > >
      > > > > through the summers, make the big bucks) but it's looking like I might just
      > > >
      > > > > keep this summer open for yet another scamper through the woods . . .
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > See, I missed that detail of you going in at Red's, in which case, if
      > > >
      > > > > you go in at Reds and you get there early enough, don't stay at the Red's
      > > >
      > > > > Meadows backpackers camp. Maybe you've been there. Maybe I am repeating myself––but
      > > >
      > > > > get the hell out-ah, there!
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > obviously, if you drive in, fresh off the road (or you shuttle back
      > > >
      > > > > there) you might not need to spend any time in the hot showers (but, hey!) and
      > > >
      > > > > you might be eager to get on the trail and make some miles, but if not and you
      > > >
      > > > > can stand to hike maybe four or so miles in, then go up and spend the night on
      > > >
      > > > > top of the Dominant Red Cone.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Two trails out of Reds. One is the official JMT trail, which starts
      > > >
      > > > > down near the stables and takes you up and eventually BETWEEN the cones. Hell,
      > > >
      > > > > you might not even know there's a cone there, on your left, as you really get
      > > >
      > > > > no sense of it and there's really no looking back, once you cross the creek at
      > > >
      > > > > upper crater meadow, to say, "oh, wow" . . .
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > The other trailhead is just out back of the restaurant a few yards. It
      > > >
      > > > > runs up to the junction for mammoth pass. it also allows you to come up behind
      > > >
      > > > > the major cone and walk right up to the top, which is a great spot to take in
      > > >
      > > > > the view, but an even better spot to spend the night––or you can go down to the
      > > >
      > > > > dark meadow and deal with the bugs.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > I've always hit Red's in the afternoon: eat, DRINK, chatter, shower and
      > > >
      > > > > then get back on the trail by four or five and get up there with time to catch
      > > >
      > > > > the sunset.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > bob
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > sparklefart.blogspot.com
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > From: barbara@
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:34:23 -0800
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Florence lake Trailhead
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Ooohhh, even better plan. Cabin, food, shower, good hiking, splashing
      > > >
      > > > > etc. I remember u mentioned falls, water, swimming etc before. If I end
      > > >
      > > > > up going in south of Reds and not Reds, I think I'll do this. Thanks Bob. :-)
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Ps. U on the trail next year?
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Barbara
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > On Nov 20, 2009, at 3:02 PM, robert shattuck <bobolonius@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Barbara,
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > I'm a little late for this conversation ( and you might know all of
      > > >
      > > > > this already) maybe, unclear on your exact objective, but if you go to all the
      > > >
      > > > > trouble to drive, or be driven, back into Florence Lake or all the way to
      > > >
      > > > > Vermilion––which is really asking a lot of anyone––and you're not absolutely
      > > >
      > > > > tuned into the idea of staying on the JMT, proper––forget dealing with any
      > > >
      > > > > obstacles that Florence lake might offer.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > If they've drained the dam, as they planned to do in September, and it
      > > >
      > > > > won't be at full capacity, OR EVEN HAVE ANY WATER, you're looking at a
      > > >
      > > > > "five or six mile diversion to get around it" ( the lake/dam ) and
      > > >
      > > > > while this may prove scenic, there isn't that much to see that'll knock you
      > > >
      > > > > over, until you get past MTR and back on the JMT.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Sure bet though––you'll get to MTR and the Hot Spring/tub in one day,
      > > >
      > > > > if that's your goal.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > You can go all the way to the VVR, and if you have someone driving you
      > > >
      > > > > back there, the least you could do would be to buy them dinner and maybe rent
      > > >
      > > > > one of the rooms, spend the night, before you gorge on breakfast and head
      > > >
      > > > > out.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > You can jump on the boat and head out to the other end of the lake and
      > > >
      > > > > slog your way up and over BEAR RIDGE, which is a grind and not at all scenic
      > > >
      > > > > (sure, it has its moments) . . . . .
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > . . . or you can have your driver, take you back down the road a mile
      > > >
      > > > > or so from the VVR and hit the trail at the BEAR CREEK TRAILHEAD.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > I did this, this summer and it was spectacular, if you love, swimming,
      > > >
      > > > > water, rocks, falls, and an easy re-entry onto the trail. otherwise, you can
      > > >
      > > > > sweat it out up the switch-backs, or you can try the BEAR RIDGE TRAIL which is
      > > >
      > > > > about as scenic and water-less as the regular JMT, coming up from the standard
      > > >
      > > > > route.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > With a lot of time off for my amorous partners, to splash and giggle
      > > >
      > > > > and a late start of maybe 11 a.m. I managed to get to Marie Lakes
      > > >
      > > > > at about 9 p.m. ( they did not, for some reason) and down to MTR by noon the
      > > >
      > > > > next day.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Bob
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > From: barbara@
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:15:25 -0800
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Florence lake Trailhead
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Very interesting thoughts. I will mull them over and also see what
      > > >
      > > > > Roleigh thinks. You make some very persuasive points. Thanks so much
      > > >
      > > > > John.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Barbara
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > On Nov 20, 2009, at 8:14 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@>
      > > >
      > > > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at
      > > >
      > > > > 5:17 PM, Barbara Karagosian <barbara@>
      > > >
      > > > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > ... I was thinking of the
      > > >
      > > > > Florence lake
      > > >
      > > > > (Prather) one, if I can't get the Reds one due to entry or Trail Crest exit
      > > >
      > > > > quotas. Does that sound OK?
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > I have one other thought.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > If your first choice trip is Red's to Whitney, why use Florence/MTR as the
      > > >
      > > > > backup plan, rather than have the backup plan be Vermilion Valley Resort and Lake Edison?
      > > >
      > > > > VVR/Edison has the same permitting situation as MTR - readily available, cheap
      > > >
      > > > > permits from Prather and no exit quotas for Whitney. (I think.)
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > And you'd miss less of your preferred route (missing 30 miles rather than 50),
      > > >
      > > > > since you'd add the pretty stretch along Bear Creek and over Selden Pass -
      > > >
      > > > > about 21 miles. (Though the first several miles south of VVR isn't
      > > >
      > > > > great.)
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > So you'd be trading 21 JMT miles (and the short Edison and MTR connector
      > > >
      > > > > trails) for the not-that-interesting 5-10 miles from the parking lot at Florence Lake
      > > >
      > > > > and MTR (10 miles if there is not enough water in the Lake
      > > >
      > > > > for the ferry) .
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > If I were joining up with someone like Roleigh who had an already-acclimated
      > > >
      > > > > group, and time permitted, I'd think of leaving solo from VVR maybe the 1-2
      > > >
      > > > > days after he leaves Red's (30 miles north of VVR/Edison). You'd have a
      > > >
      > > > > 10- to 20-mile head start on them and you'd have the luxury of letting his
      > > >
      > > > > group catch up with you at MTR. You could spend, say, 1 night at
      > > >
      > > > > Vermillion Valley Resort, 3 days and 2 nights on the 21 mile section from VVR
      > > >
      > > > > to MTR (camping, say, at Hilgard Creek and Marie Lake) and then spend the 4th
      > > >
      > > > > and fifth nights at MTR wuith a zero day enjoying a swim in the really pretty
      > > >
      > > > > Warm Lake and soaking in the Blaney Hot Springs (a river ford across from
      > > >
      > > > > MTR). By the time Roleigh's group caught up with you, you would have had
      > > >
      > > > > 5 nights to acclimate and you'd have your hiking legs ready. You'd avoid
      > > >
      > > > > the problem of them all being in really good hiking shape while you are still
      > > >
      > > > > getting used to the altitude and to carrying your pack.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > If you prefer hiking with others, I'm sure you could find some people
      > > >
      > > > > resupplying at VVR and hike with them for the stretch to MTR. In late
      > > >
      > > > > July - early August there will be JMT southbound hikers leaving every day,
      > > >
      > > > > hopefully some at less-than-blistering paces.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Assuming that you mailed yourself a resupply bucket to MTR, you'd only have to
      > > >
      > > > > carry 7 meals worth of food leaving VVR, so you'd start light rather than
      > > >
      > > > > trying to start your hike with the relatively heavy load most people carry when
      > > >
      > > > > they leave MTR (since it's a long stretch to the next resupply).
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Of course, if you trust your hiking legs, and the only thing to worry about is
      > > >
      > > > > getting used to the altitude, you could spend one night at Mono Hot Springs or
      > > >
      > > > > Vermillion, then an easy day from the parking lot at Florence
      > > >
      > > > > Lake to MTR, then a Warm Lake / Hot Springs day at
      > > >
      > > > > MTR. So then you'd have three nights at altitude before you start working
      > > >
      > > > > hard.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > John Curran Ladd
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > 1616 Castro Street
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > 415-648-9279
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try
      > > >
      > > > > it now.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > > __________________________________________________________
      > > >
      > > > > Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place.
      > > >
      > > > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1
      > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > _________________________________________________________________
      > > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
      > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/
      > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • jckarpin
      I guess I was just lucky to have a positive experience during my visit or my expectations were not very high and consequently I was not disappointed. John
      Message 54 of 54 , Nov 23, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        I guess I was just lucky to have a positive experience during my visit or my expectations were not very high and consequently I was not disappointed.
        John

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "don.amundson" <amrowinc@...> wrote:
        >
        > The backpackers area at Reds is "unusual" on a number of levels. I was not totally turned off by it but you have to be in a tolerant mode to stay there. I found it after asking a guy if he knew where it was. His reply was, "your in it." "In it" means three sites conveniently located at the intersection of all roads leading to all amenities including the hot showers (good), the parking area (not good), the trash dumpsters (not good), car campers (not good at the time). As I remember you get to pay full price for privilege of pitching your tent. The RV/Car campers were at their noisy best during my stay, including racing their remote control toy cars around the dusty roads in the camp. The noise level was only tolerable because I wear hearing aids and can turn off the sound. If you stay there you take your chances regarding your neighboring campers. If you can arrange it a stay at the resort (cabin or motel room) might be a better choice. Or, as others have suggested, you can always arrive early, take care of your needs and get back on the trail.
        >
        > Don
        >
        > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "jckarpin" <jckarpin@> wrote:
        > >
        > > Bob,
        > > I agree with you but after all, it is a car/rv camping campground. You have to except it on those terms of it will make you miserable. A partial solution would be to locate the BC in a more out-of-the-way place but you will never be far enough from disrespectful, inconsiderate people.
        > >
        > > John Karpinski
        > >
        > > ––it's the rest of the people out there and the general environment created that have always bugged me.
        > > >
        > > > Bob
        > > > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        > > > From: jckarpin@
        > > > Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:08:24 +0000
        > > > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Florence lake Trailhead
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > Wow!
        > > >
        > > > My experience at the BC was quite the contrary. I arrived at about 10am having camped the previous night at Deer Creek. (solo nobo) I was too early for burgers so settled on breakfast and called my wife to check in. I headed to the camp, dropped my gear, and showered. I spent the rest of the day being a tourist and returned in the late afternoon. That afternoon/evening I had the greatest time talking to all sorts of backpackers, sharing experiences, gear, expectations.
        > > >
        > > > I was very crowded with nearly all patches of ground occupied. Maybe I was tired but I slept well, was up and out at 6am. I think my experience was at least partly due to the fact that I was hiking solo and enjoyed and appreciated the socialization.
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > John Karpinski
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > > I suppose one noisy night couldn't be that bad, but why . . . the backpacker camp at Red's is located on a small squat of corner, just down the road from the showers and you're right across from an army of people in their motor homes and music boxes. It can be a long noisy night, with not only the music going, buy the usual yahoos whooping it up into the midnight hour.
        > > >
        > > > > Better still, none of these campers know how to actually walk, so even if they're only fifty yards from the showers, or they want to dump a ton of garbage in the noisy dumpsters––they drive up there, right past the BC.
        > > >
        > > > > There's also the late arrivals that have to grovel around all night, looking for parking. Did I mention bears? This has always been my regrettable experience at Red's . . . so get in, burger up, shower up, and then . . . scamper on out of there.
        > > >
        > > > > bob
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        > > >
        > > > > From: barbara@
        > > >
        > > > > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 12:39:55 -0800
        > > >
        > > > > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Florence lake Trailhead
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Thanks Bob – is it that bad? Will keep it
        > > >
        > > > > in mind. I can't imagine you not scampering somewhere woodsy this summer J Barbara
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robert shattuck
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009
        > > >
        > > > > 4:16 PM
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail]
        > > >
        > > > > Florence lake Trailhead
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Barbara,
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > ON the trail next year? hmmmm . . . well, I've been thinking about
        > > >
        > > > > doing #10 in a year or two (keep thinking I'll find a real job and stick it out
        > > >
        > > > > through the summers, make the big bucks) but it's looking like I might just
        > > >
        > > > > keep this summer open for yet another scamper through the woods . . .
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > See, I missed that detail of you going in at Red's, in which case, if
        > > >
        > > > > you go in at Reds and you get there early enough, don't stay at the Red's
        > > >
        > > > > Meadows backpackers camp. Maybe you've been there. Maybe I am repeating myself––but
        > > >
        > > > > get the hell out-ah, there!
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > obviously, if you drive in, fresh off the road (or you shuttle back
        > > >
        > > > > there) you might not need to spend any time in the hot showers (but, hey!) and
        > > >
        > > > > you might be eager to get on the trail and make some miles, but if not and you
        > > >
        > > > > can stand to hike maybe four or so miles in, then go up and spend the night on
        > > >
        > > > > top of the Dominant Red Cone.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Two trails out of Reds. One is the official JMT trail, which starts
        > > >
        > > > > down near the stables and takes you up and eventually BETWEEN the cones. Hell,
        > > >
        > > > > you might not even know there's a cone there, on your left, as you really get
        > > >
        > > > > no sense of it and there's really no looking back, once you cross the creek at
        > > >
        > > > > upper crater meadow, to say, "oh, wow" . . .
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > The other trailhead is just out back of the restaurant a few yards. It
        > > >
        > > > > runs up to the junction for mammoth pass. it also allows you to come up behind
        > > >
        > > > > the major cone and walk right up to the top, which is a great spot to take in
        > > >
        > > > > the view, but an even better spot to spend the night––or you can go down to the
        > > >
        > > > > dark meadow and deal with the bugs.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > I've always hit Red's in the afternoon: eat, DRINK, chatter, shower and
        > > >
        > > > > then get back on the trail by four or five and get up there with time to catch
        > > >
        > > > > the sunset.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > bob
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > sparklefart.blogspot.com
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > From: barbara@
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:34:23 -0800
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Florence lake Trailhead
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Ooohhh, even better plan. Cabin, food, shower, good hiking, splashing
        > > >
        > > > > etc. I remember u mentioned falls, water, swimming etc before. If I end
        > > >
        > > > > up going in south of Reds and not Reds, I think I'll do this. Thanks Bob. :-)
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Ps. U on the trail next year?
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Barbara
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > On Nov 20, 2009, at 3:02 PM, robert shattuck <bobolonius@> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Barbara,
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > I'm a little late for this conversation ( and you might know all of
        > > >
        > > > > this already) maybe, unclear on your exact objective, but if you go to all the
        > > >
        > > > > trouble to drive, or be driven, back into Florence Lake or all the way to
        > > >
        > > > > Vermilion––which is really asking a lot of anyone––and you're not absolutely
        > > >
        > > > > tuned into the idea of staying on the JMT, proper––forget dealing with any
        > > >
        > > > > obstacles that Florence lake might offer.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > If they've drained the dam, as they planned to do in September, and it
        > > >
        > > > > won't be at full capacity, OR EVEN HAVE ANY WATER, you're looking at a
        > > >
        > > > > "five or six mile diversion to get around it" ( the lake/dam ) and
        > > >
        > > > > while this may prove scenic, there isn't that much to see that'll knock you
        > > >
        > > > > over, until you get past MTR and back on the JMT.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Sure bet though––you'll get to MTR and the Hot Spring/tub in one day,
        > > >
        > > > > if that's your goal.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > You can go all the way to the VVR, and if you have someone driving you
        > > >
        > > > > back there, the least you could do would be to buy them dinner and maybe rent
        > > >
        > > > > one of the rooms, spend the night, before you gorge on breakfast and head
        > > >
        > > > > out.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > You can jump on the boat and head out to the other end of the lake and
        > > >
        > > > > slog your way up and over BEAR RIDGE, which is a grind and not at all scenic
        > > >
        > > > > (sure, it has its moments) . . . . .
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > . . . or you can have your driver, take you back down the road a mile
        > > >
        > > > > or so from the VVR and hit the trail at the BEAR CREEK TRAILHEAD.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > I did this, this summer and it was spectacular, if you love, swimming,
        > > >
        > > > > water, rocks, falls, and an easy re-entry onto the trail. otherwise, you can
        > > >
        > > > > sweat it out up the switch-backs, or you can try the BEAR RIDGE TRAIL which is
        > > >
        > > > > about as scenic and water-less as the regular JMT, coming up from the standard
        > > >
        > > > > route.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > With a lot of time off for my amorous partners, to splash and giggle
        > > >
        > > > > and a late start of maybe 11 a.m. I managed to get to Marie Lakes
        > > >
        > > > > at about 9 p.m. ( they did not, for some reason) and down to MTR by noon the
        > > >
        > > > > next day.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Bob
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > From: barbara@
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 09:15:25 -0800
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Florence lake Trailhead
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Very interesting thoughts. I will mull them over and also see what
        > > >
        > > > > Roleigh thinks. You make some very persuasive points. Thanks so much
        > > >
        > > > > John.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Barbara
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > On Nov 20, 2009, at 8:14 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@>
        > > >
        > > > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > On Thu, Nov 19, 2009 at
        > > >
        > > > > 5:17 PM, Barbara Karagosian <barbara@>
        > > >
        > > > > wrote:
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > ... I was thinking of the
        > > >
        > > > > Florence lake
        > > >
        > > > > (Prather) one, if I can't get the Reds one due to entry or Trail Crest exit
        > > >
        > > > > quotas. Does that sound OK?
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > I have one other thought.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > If your first choice trip is Red's to Whitney, why use Florence/MTR as the
        > > >
        > > > > backup plan, rather than have the backup plan be Vermilion Valley Resort and Lake Edison?
        > > >
        > > > > VVR/Edison has the same permitting situation as MTR - readily available, cheap
        > > >
        > > > > permits from Prather and no exit quotas for Whitney. (I think.)
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > And you'd miss less of your preferred route (missing 30 miles rather than 50),
        > > >
        > > > > since you'd add the pretty stretch along Bear Creek and over Selden Pass -
        > > >
        > > > > about 21 miles. (Though the first several miles south of VVR isn't
        > > >
        > > > > great.)
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > So you'd be trading 21 JMT miles (and the short Edison and MTR connector
        > > >
        > > > > trails) for the not-that-interesting 5-10 miles from the parking lot at Florence Lake
        > > >
        > > > > and MTR (10 miles if there is not enough water in the Lake
        > > >
        > > > > for the ferry) .
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > If I were joining up with someone like Roleigh who had an already-acclimated
        > > >
        > > > > group, and time permitted, I'd think of leaving solo from VVR maybe the 1-2
        > > >
        > > > > days after he leaves Red's (30 miles north of VVR/Edison). You'd have a
        > > >
        > > > > 10- to 20-mile head start on them and you'd have the luxury of letting his
        > > >
        > > > > group catch up with you at MTR. You could spend, say, 1 night at
        > > >
        > > > > Vermillion Valley Resort, 3 days and 2 nights on the 21 mile section from VVR
        > > >
        > > > > to MTR (camping, say, at Hilgard Creek and Marie Lake) and then spend the 4th
        > > >
        > > > > and fifth nights at MTR wuith a zero day enjoying a swim in the really pretty
        > > >
        > > > > Warm Lake and soaking in the Blaney Hot Springs (a river ford across from
        > > >
        > > > > MTR). By the time Roleigh's group caught up with you, you would have had
        > > >
        > > > > 5 nights to acclimate and you'd have your hiking legs ready. You'd avoid
        > > >
        > > > > the problem of them all being in really good hiking shape while you are still
        > > >
        > > > > getting used to the altitude and to carrying your pack.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > If you prefer hiking with others, I'm sure you could find some people
        > > >
        > > > > resupplying at VVR and hike with them for the stretch to MTR. In late
        > > >
        > > > > July - early August there will be JMT southbound hikers leaving every day,
        > > >
        > > > > hopefully some at less-than-blistering paces.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Assuming that you mailed yourself a resupply bucket to MTR, you'd only have to
        > > >
        > > > > carry 7 meals worth of food leaving VVR, so you'd start light rather than
        > > >
        > > > > trying to start your hike with the relatively heavy load most people carry when
        > > >
        > > > > they leave MTR (since it's a long stretch to the next resupply).
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Of course, if you trust your hiking legs, and the only thing to worry about is
        > > >
        > > > > getting used to the altitude, you could spend one night at Mono Hot Springs or
        > > >
        > > > > Vermillion, then an easy day from the parking lot at Florence
        > > >
        > > > > Lake to MTR, then a Warm Lake / Hot Springs day at
        > > >
        > > > > MTR. So then you'd have three nights at altitude before you start working
        > > >
        > > > > hard.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > John Curran Ladd
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > 1616 Castro Street
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > 415-648-9279
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try
        > > >
        > > > > it now.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection. Sign up now.
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > > > __________________________________________________________
        > > >
        > > > > Bing brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place.
        > > >
        > > > > http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants&form=MFESRP&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MFESRP_Local_MapsMenu_Resturants_1x1
        > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > _________________________________________________________________
        > > > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft's powerful SPAM protection.
        > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/
        > > > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/
        > > >
        > >
        >
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.