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Footwear - heavier vs lighter

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  • mm03g
    I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN s http://www.rei.com/product/667406. Learning that I have two different size feet, I got a heel blister on the right
    Message 1 of 22 , Jul 24 7:14 AM
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      I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's http://www.rei.com/product/667406. Learning that I have two different size feet, I got a heel blister on the right twice - once with liner, once w/out. Returned to REI and got Merrell Phaser Peak http://www.rei.com/product/748502 (3lbs). Picked a 1/2 size bigger than my normal shoe size and am using heavy wool socks. Based on plan, not much break-in time available and they feel heavy. Generally, people say get stiff soles for bpacking which means full boots. Some prefer very lightweight, softer shoes that require little to no break-in time. I'm 5'8, 160, no knee/feet problems, taking poles, need to decide best course of action soon. Realizing that footwear is probably the most personally subjective aspect of gear selection....any comments are still appreciated
    • Matt Ruby
      My two cents are running shoes.  As blisters in certain places of the foot will shut your hike down possibly ruin your vacation.  Especially, on your heel
      Message 2 of 22 , Jul 24 8:19 AM
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        My two cents are running shoes.  As blisters in certain places of the foot will shut your hike down possibly ruin your vacation.  Especially, on your heel as you mentioned earlier.  I think my feet would prefer wearing knives than asolo boots.  Made that mistake once.  
        As you said it this is an impossible question for many reasons.
        bad ankles=boots
        bad knees=shoes
        bad blister problems=shoes
        In need of solid foot support=boots
         
        Or you can try a hybrid like trail runners.
         
        One pound on your feet feels like 4 pounds in your pack, so if you are going on the heavy side with your pack already, boots make sense.  Plus, with a heavy pack you will need the extra support. 
        Matt
        --- On Fri, 7/24/09, mm03g <mgmarabeti@...> wrote:


        From: mm03g <mgmarabeti@...>
        Subject: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter
        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:14 PM


         



        I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's http://www.rei com/product/ 667406. Learning that I have two different size feet, I got a heel blister on the right twice - once with liner, once w/out. Returned to REI and got Merrell Phaser Peak http://www.rei com/product/ 748502 (3lbs). Picked a 1/2 size bigger than my normal shoe size and am using heavy wool socks. Based on plan, not much break-in time available and they feel heavy. Generally, people say get stiff soles for bpacking which means full boots. Some prefer very lightweight, softer shoes that require little to no break-in time. I'm 5'8, 160, no knee/feet problems, taking poles, need to decide best course of action soon. Realizing that footwear is probably the most personally subjective aspect of gear selection... .any comments are still appreciated



















        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sean Mahoney
        I second that recommendation. I started backpacking in boots (Asolo boots, in fact) and quickly learned to hate the weight. I switched over to trail runners
        Message 3 of 22 , Jul 24 11:15 AM
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          I second that recommendation. I started backpacking in boots (Asolo
          boots, in fact) and quickly learned to hate the weight. I switched
          over to trail runners and have never looked back. The only trips I
          bother wearing boots now are those on snow, when I'll likely need to
          kick steps or use crampons. If you ask me, I think that some people
          actually have more potential for injury by wearing boots. The
          additional weight is hard on your muscles and knees, and those in
          boots have a tendency to almost stumble downhill due to fatigue and
          end up relying on the rugged boots to protect their feet as they
          accidentally kick rocks, roots, and logs. If you wear good trail
          runners (a good sole is still important) and just watch where you
          place your feet as you head downhill, I think you'll be MUCH happier.
          I know that some on this list will strongly disagree, but that's just
          my take on the subject. In the end, you should choose what will work
          best for your feet and what you feel most comfortable with.

          If you go with trail runners, make sure and select a well-reviewed
          pair that fit you the best. My feet need a wide toe-box, so I'm much
          more limited in my options. I previously had The North Face Prophecy
          trail runners (which fit my feet perfectly), but they killed off that
          line and replaced them with the Prophecy II - which is a completely
          different fit (they narrowed the toe-box and moved the mesh panels
          such that I can't wear them anymore). I then blindly ordered The
          North Face Cooper's Hill trail runners online and hoped that they
          would fit correctly when they arrived since no store seemed to carry
          them (but they were one of the lightest pairs out there). They fit
          OK, but the toe box was still slightly too narrow, the sole wasn't
          Vibram (it was the softer Ultra-tac), and the mesh panel started to
          rip along the top on one side after the first dayhike in them (albeit
          a 16-mile day). I considered the Montrail Hardrocks, but have read
          numerous quality complaints since Montrail was bought by Columbia a
          few years back (big surprise).

          If you have relatively wide feet like me, you may want to check out
          the Merrell Moab Ventilators (the low-top cross-trainers, not the
          mids). They offer wide sizes (which no REI seems to carry), but the
          length tends to run about half a size shorter than you would expect.
          I also have feet of two different sizes (one is 10.5 and one is 11).
          I typically buy hiking footwear in a 12 (to ensure I avoid banging my
          toes against the front), but found that when I did the toe-kick test
          with the Ventilators in REI that the 12 wasn't quite long enough.
          Since Merrell doesn't make a 12.5, I ordered a pair of 13 Wides online
          and fell in love as soon as I put them on. I've already put some
          miles in the Sierra on them in the past few weeks and they kick some
          serious ass. :)

          And if you end up going with the Merrells, I'd suggest getting better
          insoles. The orange ones that come with them are flimsy little things
          that offer almost no cushion. Per the advice of PCT thru-hiker Erik
          the Black (http://www.eriktheblack.com/), I avoided Superfeet and
          decided to try out Montrail Enduro-Soles
          (http://www.montrail.com/Product.aspx?prod=151&cat=140&top=1). Angels
          sang. AWESOME insoles. They are designed to be heat-molded, but I've
          actually heard they work better if you just put them in the shoes
          as-is and let your natural walking movement slowly mold them over
          time. Pair those up with some light SmartWool socks and you're good
          to go! All this advice is obviously subjective and based on my own
          experiences (and feet), but hopefully some of that helps in your quest
          for better footwear. Happy trails! :)

          Sean the Red

          On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Matt Ruby<mattruby@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > My two cents are running shoes.  As blisters in certain places of the foot
          > will shut your hike down possibly ruin your vacation.  Especially, on your
          > heel as you mentioned earlier.  I think my feet would prefer wearing knives
          > than asolo boots.  Made that mistake once.
          > As you said it this is an impossible question for many reasons.
          > bad ankles=boots
          > bad knees=shoes
          > bad blister problems=shoes
          > In need of solid foot support=boots
          >
          > Or you can try a hybrid like trail runners.
          >
          > One pound on your feet feels like 4 pounds in your pack, so if you are going
          > on the heavy side with your pack already, boots make sense.  Plus, with a
          > heavy pack you will need the extra support.
          > Matt
          > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, mm03g <mgmarabeti@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: mm03g <mgmarabeti@...>
          > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter
          > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:14 PM
          >
          >
          >
          > I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's http://www.rei com/product/
          > 667406. Learning that I have two different size feet, I got a heel blister
          > on the right twice - once with liner, once w/out. Returned to REI and got
          > Merrell Phaser Peak http://www.rei com/product/ 748502 (3lbs). Picked a 1/2
          > size bigger than my normal shoe size and am using heavy wool socks. Based on
          > plan, not much break-in time available and they feel heavy. Generally,
          > people say get stiff soles for bpacking which means full boots. Some prefer
          > very lightweight, softer shoes that require little to no break-in time. I'm
          > 5'8, 160, no knee/feet problems, taking poles, need to decide best course of
          > action soon. Realizing that footwear is probably the most personally
          > subjective aspect of gear selection... .any comments are still appreciated
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
        • Jon Sterling
          I m going with a pair of New Balance 904s and my beloved Vibram Five Fingers. My total pack weight will never be over 25 pounds. I ll be sure to report back
          Message 4 of 22 , Jul 24 11:27 AM
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            I'm going with a pair of New Balance 904s and my beloved Vibram Five
            Fingers. My total pack weight will never be over 25 pounds. I'll be
            sure to report back with my success or failure in the footwear
            department. Headed South starting August 10th.

            On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Sean Mahoney<cutlassdude70@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > I second that recommendation. I started backpacking in boots (Asolo
            > boots, in fact) and quickly learned to hate the weight. I switched
            > over to trail runners and have never looked back. The only trips I
            > bother wearing boots now are those on snow, when I'll likely need to
            > kick steps or use crampons. If you ask me, I think that some people
            > actually have more potential for injury by wearing boots. The
            > additional weight is hard on your muscles and knees, and those in
            > boots have a tendency to almost stumble downhill due to fatigue and
            > end up relying on the rugged boots to protect their feet as they
            > accidentally kick rocks, roots, and logs. If you wear good trail
            > runners (a good sole is still important) and just watch where you
            > place your feet as you head downhill, I think you'll be MUCH happier.
            > I know that some on this list will strongly disagree, but that's just
            > my take on the subject. In the end, you should choose what will work
            > best for your feet and what you feel most comfortable with.
            >
            > If you go with trail runners, make sure and select a well-reviewed
            > pair that fit you the best. My feet need a wide toe-box, so I'm much
            > more limited in my options. I previously had The North Face Prophecy
            > trail runners (which fit my feet perfectly), but they killed off that
            > line and replaced them with the Prophecy II - which is a completely
            > different fit (they narrowed the toe-box and moved the mesh panels
            > such that I can't wear them anymore). I then blindly ordered The
            > North Face Cooper's Hill trail runners online and hoped that they
            > would fit correctly when they arrived since no store seemed to carry
            > them (but they were one of the lightest pairs out there). They fit
            > OK, but the toe box was still slightly too narrow, the sole wasn't
            > Vibram (it was the softer Ultra-tac), and the mesh panel started to
            > rip along the top on one side after the first dayhike in them (albeit
            > a 16-mile day). I considered the Montrail Hardrocks, but have read
            > numerous quality complaints since Montrail was bought by Columbia a
            > few years back (big surprise).
            >
            > If you have relatively wide feet like me, you may want to check out
            > the Merrell Moab Ventilators (the low-top cross-trainers, not the
            > mids). They offer wide sizes (which no REI seems to carry), but the
            > length tends to run about half a size shorter than you would expect.
            > I also have feet of two different sizes (one is 10.5 and one is 11).
            > I typically buy hiking footwear in a 12 (to ensure I avoid banging my
            > toes against the front), but found that when I did the toe-kick test
            > with the Ventilators in REI that the 12 wasn't quite long enough.
            > Since Merrell doesn't make a 12.5, I ordered a pair of 13 Wides online
            > and fell in love as soon as I put them on. I've already put some
            > miles in the Sierra on them in the past few weeks and they kick some
            > serious ass. :)
            >
            > And if you end up going with the Merrells, I'd suggest getting better
            > insoles. The orange ones that come with them are flimsy little things
            > that offer almost no cushion. Per the advice of PCT thru-hiker Erik
            > the Black (http://www.eriktheblack.com/), I avoided Superfeet and
            > decided to try out Montrail Enduro-Soles
            > (http://www.montrail.com/Product.aspx?prod=151&cat=140&top=1). Angels
            > sang. AWESOME insoles. They are designed to be heat-molded, but I've
            > actually heard they work better if you just put them in the shoes
            > as-is and let your natural walking movement slowly mold them over
            > time. Pair those up with some light SmartWool socks and you're good
            > to go! All this advice is obviously subjective and based on my own
            > experiences (and feet), but hopefully some of that helps in your quest
            > for better footwear. Happy trails! :)
            >
            > Sean the Red
            >
            > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Matt Ruby<mattruby@...> wrote:
            >>
            >>
            >> My two cents are running shoes.  As blisters in certain places of the foot
            >> will shut your hike down possibly ruin your vacation.  Especially, on your
            >> heel as you mentioned earlier.  I think my feet would prefer
            >> wearing knives
            >> than asolo boots.  Made that mistake once.
            >> As you said it this is an impossible question for many reasons.
            >> bad ankles=boots
            >> bad knees=shoes
            >> bad blister problems=shoes
            >> In need of solid foot support=boots
            >>
            >> Or you can try a hybrid like trail runners.
            >>
            >> One pound on your feet feels like 4 pounds in your pack, so if you are
            >> going
            >> on the heavy side with your pack already, boots make sense.  Plus, with a
            >> heavy pack you will need the extra support.
            >> Matt
            >> --- On Fri, 7/24/09, mm03g <mgmarabeti@...> wrote:
            >>
            >> From: mm03g <mgmarabeti@...>
            >> Subject: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter
            >> To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
            >> Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:14 PM
            >>
            >>
            >>
            >> I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's http://www.rei com/product/
            >> 667406. Learning that I have two different size feet, I got a heel blister
            >> on the right twice - once with liner, once w/out. Returned to REI and got
            >> Merrell Phaser Peak http://www.rei com/product/ 748502 (3lbs). Picked a
            >> 1/2
            >> size bigger than my normal shoe size and am using heavy wool socks. Based
            >> on
            >> plan, not much break-in time available and they feel heavy. Generally,
            >> people say get stiff soles for bpacking which means full boots. Some
            >> prefer
            >> very lightweight, softer shoes that require little to no break-in time.
            >> I'm
            >> 5'8, 160, no knee/feet problems, taking poles, need to decide best course
            >> of
            >> action soon. Realizing that footwear is probably the most personally
            >> subjective aspect of gear selection... .any comments are still appreciated
            >>
            >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >>
            >>
            >
            >



            --
            Would you like to learn about real estate in San Diego?
            www.sandiegomodernhome.com/blog
          • John Karpinski
            I ve used New Balance Trail Runners for many years now. Specifically the 80x series have been great. Several years ago the reissued the 801 and bought a
            Message 5 of 22 , Jul 24 5:44 PM
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              I've used New Balance Trail Runners for many years now. Specifically the 80x series have been great. Several years ago the reissued the 801 and bought a pair. They worked flawlessly last year on the JMT. I just got back from a quick 3 days (about 27 miles) in the Sierras wearing the same shoes and are still holding up. Like Barbara K., I wear sock liners and Smart Wool socks.
              I agree that if you have no ankle issues, walk carefully, and keep the pack weight down, trail runners are the way to go.
              BTW, when I train for a hike, I wear ankle weights that weigh about twice that of the trail runners. Makes you feel like you're barefoot while on the trail.

              John Karpinski
              >
              > I'm going with a pair of New Balance 904s and my beloved Vibram Five
              > Fingers. My total pack weight will never be over 25 pounds. I'll be
              > sure to report back with my success or failure in the footwear
              > department. Headed South starting August 10th.
              >
              > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Sean Mahoney<cutlassdude70@...> wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > > I second that recommendation. I started backpacking in boots (Asolo
              > > boots, in fact) and quickly learned to hate the weight. I switched
              > > over to trail runners and have never looked back. The only trips I
              > > bother wearing boots now are those on snow, when I'll likely need to
              > > kick steps or use crampons. If you ask me, I think that some people
              > > actually have more potential for injury by wearing boots. The
              > > additional weight is hard on your muscles and knees, and those in
              > > boots have a tendency to almost stumble downhill due to fatigue and
              > > end up relying on the rugged boots to protect their feet as they
              > > accidentally kick rocks, roots, and logs. If you wear good trail
              > > runners (a good sole is still important) and just watch where you
              > > place your feet as you head downhill, I think you'll be MUCH happier.
              > > I know that some on this list will strongly disagree, but that's just
              > > my take on the subject. In the end, you should choose what will work
              > > best for your feet and what you feel most comfortable with.
              > >
              > > If you go with trail runners, make sure and select a well-reviewed
              > > pair that fit you the best. My feet need a wide toe-box, so I'm much
              > > more limited in my options. I previously had The North Face Prophecy
              > > trail runners (which fit my feet perfectly), but they killed off that
              > > line and replaced them with the Prophecy II - which is a completely
              > > different fit (they narrowed the toe-box and moved the mesh panels
              > > such that I can't wear them anymore). I then blindly ordered The
              > > North Face Cooper's Hill trail runners online and hoped that they
              > > would fit correctly when they arrived since no store seemed to carry
              > > them (but they were one of the lightest pairs out there). They fit
              > > OK, but the toe box was still slightly too narrow, the sole wasn't
              > > Vibram (it was the softer Ultra-tac), and the mesh panel started to
              > > rip along the top on one side after the first dayhike in them (albeit
              > > a 16-mile day). I considered the Montrail Hardrocks, but have read
              > > numerous quality complaints since Montrail was bought by Columbia a
              > > few years back (big surprise).
              > >
              > > If you have relatively wide feet like me, you may want to check out
              > > the Merrell Moab Ventilators (the low-top cross-trainers, not the
              > > mids). They offer wide sizes (which no REI seems to carry), but the
              > > length tends to run about half a size shorter than you would expect.
              > > I also have feet of two different sizes (one is 10.5 and one is 11).
              > > I typically buy hiking footwear in a 12 (to ensure I avoid banging my
              > > toes against the front), but found that when I did the toe-kick test
              > > with the Ventilators in REI that the 12 wasn't quite long enough.
              > > Since Merrell doesn't make a 12.5, I ordered a pair of 13 Wides online
              > > and fell in love as soon as I put them on. I've already put some
              > > miles in the Sierra on them in the past few weeks and they kick some
              > > serious ass. :)
              > >
              > > And if you end up going with the Merrells, I'd suggest getting better
              > > insoles. The orange ones that come with them are flimsy little things
              > > that offer almost no cushion. Per the advice of PCT thru-hiker Erik
              > > the Black (http://www.eriktheblack.com/), I avoided Superfeet and
              > > decided to try out Montrail Enduro-Soles
              > > (http://www.montrail.com/Product.aspx?prod=151&cat=140&top=1). Angels
              > > sang. AWESOME insoles. They are designed to be heat-molded, but I've
              > > actually heard they work better if you just put them in the shoes
              > > as-is and let your natural walking movement slowly mold them over
              > > time. Pair those up with some light SmartWool socks and you're good
              > > to go! All this advice is obviously subjective and based on my own
              > > experiences (and feet), but hopefully some of that helps in your quest
              > > for better footwear. Happy trails! :)
              > >
              > > Sean the Red
              > >
              > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Matt Ruby<mattruby@...> wrote:
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> My two cents are running shoes.  As blisters in certain places of the foot
              > >> will shut your hike down possibly ruin your vacation.  Especially, on your
              > >> heel as you mentioned earlier.  I think my feet would prefer
              > >> wearing knives
              > >> than asolo boots.  Made that mistake once.
              > >> As you said it this is an impossible question for many reasons.
              > >> bad ankles=boots
              > >> bad knees=shoes
              > >> bad blister problems=shoes
              > >> In need of solid foot support=boots
              > >>
              > >> Or you can try a hybrid like trail runners.
              > >>
              > >> One pound on your feet feels like 4 pounds in your pack, so if you are
              > >> going
              > >> on the heavy side with your pack already, boots make sense.  Plus, with a
              > >> heavy pack you will need the extra support.
              > >> Matt
              > >> --- On Fri, 7/24/09, mm03g <mgmarabeti@...> wrote:
              > >>
              > >> From: mm03g <mgmarabeti@...>
              > >> Subject: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter
              > >> To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
              > >> Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:14 PM
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >> I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's http://www.rei com/product/
              > >> 667406. Learning that I have two different size feet, I got a heel blister
              > >> on the right twice - once with liner, once w/out. Returned to REI and got
              > >> Merrell Phaser Peak http://www.rei com/product/ 748502 (3lbs). Picked a
              > >> 1/2
              > >> size bigger than my normal shoe size and am using heavy wool socks. Based
              > >> on
              > >> plan, not much break-in time available and they feel heavy. Generally,
              > >> people say get stiff soles for bpacking which means full boots. Some
              > >> prefer
              > >> very lightweight, softer shoes that require little to no break-in time.
              > >> I'm
              > >> 5'8, 160, no knee/feet problems, taking poles, need to decide best course
              > >> of
              > >> action soon. Realizing that footwear is probably the most personally
              > >> subjective aspect of gear selection... .any comments are still appreciated
              > >>
              > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > Would you like to learn about real estate in San Diego?
              > www.sandiegomodernhome.com/blog
              >
            • Rich Ehli
              I have same problem, different size feet. Let me guess, your left foot is the larger one? I buy two pair of boots, one to fit each foot. (Yeah, I know what you
              Message 6 of 22 , Jul 24 7:05 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                I have same problem, different size feet. Let me guess, your left foot
                is the larger one? I buy two pair of boots, one to fit each foot. (Yeah,
                I know what you must be thinking but it is the most cost-effective
                solution to my slight physical disability.) Custom orthothics help some
                and I make sure to buy my hiking boots in sizes at least one full size
                larger than my street shoes. I'll be wearing a size 13 and a size 14 on
                the trail. Hence, my trail name - Bigfoot.

                Rich

                mm03g wrote:
                >
                >
                > I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's
                > http://www.rei.com/product/667406.
                > <http://www.rei.com/product/667406.> Learning that I have two
                > different size feet, I got a heel blister on the right twice - once
                > with liner, once w/out. Returned to REI and got Merrell Phaser Peak
                > http://www.rei.com/product/748502 <http://www.rei.com/product/748502>
                > (3lbs). Picked a 1/2 size bigger than my normal shoe size and am using
                > heavy wool socks. Based on plan, not much break-in time available and
                > they feel heavy. Generally, people say get stiff soles for bpacking
                > which means full boots. Some prefer very lightweight, softer shoes
                > that require little to no break-in time. I'm 5'8, 160, no knee/feet
                > problems, taking poles, need to decide best course of action soon.
                > Realizing that footwear is probably the most personally subjective
                > aspect of gear selection....any comments are still appreciated
                >
                >
              • Barbara Burns
                Jon, I m heading South on the 11th and also planning on wearing my, as you say, beloved Vibram Five Fingers as much of the journey as possible.  Do you have
                Message 7 of 22 , Jul 24 10:06 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  Jon,

                  I'm heading South on the 11th and also planning on wearing my, as you say, "beloved" Vibram Five Fingers as much of the journey as possible.  Do you have previous experience on the JMT with VFF?  How are they on pumice, and other "sharpie" type rock. . .does it damage them?  How do they feel overall?  I'm really excited to wear mine most of the time.  And, jeez, how do you keep your pack at 25# or under?  There's a challenge!

                  Karpani

                  --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Jon Sterling <mistersterling@...> wrote:

                  From: Jon Sterling <mistersterling@...>
                  Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter
                  To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 11:27 AM






                   





                  I'm going with a pair of New Balance 904s and my beloved Vibram Five

                  Fingers. My total pack weight will never be over 25 pounds. I'll be

                  sure to report back with my success or failure in the footwear

                  department. Headed South starting August 10th.



                  On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Sean Mahoney<cutlassdude70@ gmail.com> wrote:

                  >

                  >

                  > I second that recommendation. I started backpacking in boots (Asolo

                  > boots, in fact) and quickly learned to hate the weight. I switched

                  > over to trail runners and have never looked back. The only trips I

                  > bother wearing boots now are those on snow, when I'll likely need to

                  > kick steps or use crampons. If you ask me, I think that some people

                  > actually have more potential for injury by wearing boots. The

                  > additional weight is hard on your muscles and knees, and those in

                  > boots have a tendency to almost stumble downhill due to fatigue and

                  > end up relying on the rugged boots to protect their feet as they

                  > accidentally kick rocks, roots, and logs. If you wear good trail

                  > runners (a good sole is still important) and just watch where you

                  > place your feet as you head downhill, I think you'll be MUCH happier.

                  > I know that some on this list will strongly disagree, but that's just

                  > my take on the subject. In the end, you should choose what will work

                  > best for your feet and what you feel most comfortable with.

                  >

                  > If you go with trail runners, make sure and select a well-reviewed

                  > pair that fit you the best. My feet need a wide toe-box, so I'm much

                  > more limited in my options. I previously had The North Face Prophecy

                  > trail runners (which fit my feet perfectly), but they killed off that

                  > line and replaced them with the Prophecy II - which is a completely

                  > different fit (they narrowed the toe-box and moved the mesh panels

                  > such that I can't wear them anymore). I then blindly ordered The

                  > North Face Cooper's Hill trail runners online and hoped that they

                  > would fit correctly when they arrived since no store seemed to carry

                  > them (but they were one of the lightest pairs out there). They fit

                  > OK, but the toe box was still slightly too narrow, the sole wasn't

                  > Vibram (it was the softer Ultra-tac), and the mesh panel started to

                  > rip along the top on one side after the first dayhike in them (albeit

                  > a 16-mile day). I considered the Montrail Hardrocks, but have read

                  > numerous quality complaints since Montrail was bought by Columbia a

                  > few years back (big surprise).

                  >

                  > If you have relatively wide feet like me, you may want to check out

                  > the Merrell Moab Ventilators (the low-top cross-trainers, not the

                  > mids). They offer wide sizes (which no REI seems to carry), but the

                  > length tends to run about half a size shorter than you would expect.

                  > I also have feet of two different sizes (one is 10.5 and one is 11).

                  > I typically buy hiking footwear in a 12 (to ensure I avoid banging my

                  > toes against the front), but found that when I did the toe-kick test

                  > with the Ventilators in REI that the 12 wasn't quite long enough.

                  > Since Merrell doesn't make a 12.5, I ordered a pair of 13 Wides online

                  > and fell in love as soon as I put them on. I've already put some

                  > miles in the Sierra on them in the past few weeks and they kick some

                  > serious ass. :)

                  >

                  > And if you end up going with the Merrells, I'd suggest getting better

                  > insoles. The orange ones that come with them are flimsy little things

                  > that offer almost no cushion. Per the advice of PCT thru-hiker Erik

                  > the Black (http://www.eriktheb lack.com/), I avoided Superfeet and

                  > decided to try out Montrail Enduro-Soles

                  > (http://www.montrail .com/Product. aspx?prod= 151&cat=140& top=1). Angels

                  > sang. AWESOME insoles. They are designed to be heat-molded, but I've

                  > actually heard they work better if you just put them in the shoes

                  > as-is and let your natural walking movement slowly mold them over

                  > time. Pair those up with some light SmartWool socks and you're good

                  > to go! All this advice is obviously subjective and based on my own

                  > experiences (and feet), but hopefully some of that helps in your quest

                  > for better footwear. Happy trails! :)

                  >

                  > Sean the Red

                  >

                  > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Matt Ruby<mattruby@ymail. com> wrote:

                  >>

                  >>

                  >> My two cents are running shoes.  As blisters in certain places of the foot

                  >> will shut your hike down possibly ruin your vacation.  Especially, on your

                  >> heel as you mentioned earlier.  I think my feet would prefer

                  >> wearing knives

                  >> than asolo boots.  Made that mistake once.

                  >> As you said it this is an impossible question for many reasons.

                  >> bad ankles=boots

                  >> bad knees=shoes

                  >> bad blister problems=shoes

                  >> In need of solid foot support=boots

                  >>

                  >> Or you can try a hybrid like trail runners.

                  >>

                  >> One pound on your feet feels like 4 pounds in your pack, so if you are

                  >> going

                  >> on the heavy side with your pack already, boots make sense.  Plus, with a

                  >> heavy pack you will need the extra support.

                  >> Matt

                  >> --- On Fri, 7/24/09, mm03g <mgmarabeti@yahoo. com> wrote:

                  >>

                  >> From: mm03g <mgmarabeti@yahoo. com>

                  >> Subject: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter

                  >> To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com

                  >> Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:14 PM

                  >>

                  >>

                  >>

                  >> I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's http://www.rei com/product/

                  >> 667406. Learning that I have two different size feet, I got a heel blister

                  >> on the right twice - once with liner, once w/out. Returned to REI and got

                  >> Merrell Phaser Peak http://www.rei com/product/ 748502 (3lbs). Picked a

                  >> 1/2

                  >> size bigger than my normal shoe size and am using heavy wool socks. Based

                  >> on

                  >> plan, not much break-in time available and they feel heavy. Generally,

                  >> people say get stiff soles for bpacking which means full boots. Some

                  >> prefer

                  >> very lightweight, softer shoes that require little to no break-in time.

                  >> I'm

                  >> 5'8, 160, no knee/feet problems, taking poles, need to decide best course

                  >> of

                  >> action soon. Realizing that footwear is probably the most personally

                  >> subjective aspect of gear selection... .any comments are still appreciated

                  >>

                  >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  >>

                  >>

                  >

                  >



                  --

                  Would you like to learn about real estate in San Diego?

                  www.sandiegomodernh ome.com/blog


























                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • robert shattuck
                  it s friday night, sorting gear and getting itchy, so forgive me––Vibram Five-fingers. The typical human foot is an anatomical marvel of evolution with 26
                  Message 8 of 22 , Jul 24 10:40 PM
                  • 0 Attachment
                    it's friday night, sorting gear and getting itchy, so forgive me��Vibram Five-fingers.
                    "The typical human foot is an anatomical marvel of evolution with 26 bones, 33 muscles and hundreds of sensory receptors, tendons and ligaments. Like the rest of the body, to keep our feet healthy, they need to be stimulated and exercised."
                    I had to kind of laugh when I read the copy for these things . . . wear them on the JMT and you'll break 26 bones, 33 muscles and hundreds of receptors will be receiving no more!!!!!
                    I hike a lot of the trail in TEVA's ( sandals ) and there's certainly a lot of it that's easy on the feet, sort of, but I'd say these look like a "steri-pen" waiting to happen. cute in camp, though.
                    charge on!!!!! (but save your feet)

                    Bob
                    http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                    To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                    From: karpanilove@...
                    Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 22:06:30 -0700
                    Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter





















                    Jon,



                    I'm heading South on the 11th and also planning on wearing my, as you say, "beloved" Vibram Five Fingers as much of the journey as possible. Do you have previous experience on the JMT with VFF? How are they on pumice, and other "sharpie" type rock. . .does it damage them? How do they feel overall? I'm really excited to wear mine most of the time. And, jeez, how do you keep your pack at 25# or under? There's a challenge!



                    Karpani



                    --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Jon Sterling <mistersterling@...> wrote:



                    From: Jon Sterling <mistersterling@...>

                    Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter

                    To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com

                    Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 11:27 AM







                    I'm going with a pair of New Balance 904s and my beloved Vibram Five



                    Fingers. My total pack weight will never be over 25 pounds. I'll be



                    sure to report back with my success or failure in the footwear



                    department. Headed South starting August 10th.



                    On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Sean Mahoney<cutlassdude70@ gmail.com> wrote:



                    >



                    >



                    > I second that recommendation. I started backpacking in boots (Asolo



                    > boots, in fact) and quickly learned to hate the weight. I switched



                    > over to trail runners and have never looked back. The only trips I



                    > bother wearing boots now are those on snow, when I'll likely need to



                    > kick steps or use crampons. If you ask me, I think that some people



                    > actually have more potential for injury by wearing boots. The



                    > additional weight is hard on your muscles and knees, and those in



                    > boots have a tendency to almost stumble downhill due to fatigue and



                    > end up relying on the rugged boots to protect their feet as they



                    > accidentally kick rocks, roots, and logs. If you wear good trail



                    > runners (a good sole is still important) and just watch where you



                    > place your feet as you head downhill, I think you'll be MUCH happier.



                    > I know that some on this list will strongly disagree, but that's just



                    > my take on the subject. In the end, you should choose what will work



                    > best for your feet and what you feel most comfortable with.



                    >



                    > If you go with trail runners, make sure and select a well-reviewed



                    > pair that fit you the best. My feet need a wide toe-box, so I'm much



                    > more limited in my options. I previously had The North Face Prophecy



                    > trail runners (which fit my feet perfectly), but they killed off that



                    > line and replaced them with the Prophecy II - which is a completely



                    > different fit (they narrowed the toe-box and moved the mesh panels



                    > such that I can't wear them anymore). I then blindly ordered The



                    > North Face Cooper's Hill trail runners online and hoped that they



                    > would fit correctly when they arrived since no store seemed to carry



                    > them (but they were one of the lightest pairs out there). They fit



                    > OK, but the toe box was still slightly too narrow, the sole wasn't



                    > Vibram (it was the softer Ultra-tac), and the mesh panel started to



                    > rip along the top on one side after the first dayhike in them (albeit



                    > a 16-mile day). I considered the Montrail Hardrocks, but have read



                    > numerous quality complaints since Montrail was bought by Columbia a



                    > few years back (big surprise).



                    >



                    > If you have relatively wide feet like me, you may want to check out



                    > the Merrell Moab Ventilators (the low-top cross-trainers, not the



                    > mids). They offer wide sizes (which no REI seems to carry), but the



                    > length tends to run about half a size shorter than you would expect.



                    > I also have feet of two different sizes (one is 10.5 and one is 11).



                    > I typically buy hiking footwear in a 12 (to ensure I avoid banging my



                    > toes against the front), but found that when I did the toe-kick test



                    > with the Ventilators in REI that the 12 wasn't quite long enough.



                    > Since Merrell doesn't make a 12.5, I ordered a pair of 13 Wides online



                    > and fell in love as soon as I put them on. I've already put some



                    > miles in the Sierra on them in the past few weeks and they kick some



                    > serious ass. :)



                    >



                    > And if you end up going with the Merrells, I'd suggest getting better



                    > insoles. The orange ones that come with them are flimsy little things



                    > that offer almost no cushion. Per the advice of PCT thru-hiker Erik



                    > the Black (http://www.eriktheb lack.com/), I avoided Superfeet and



                    > decided to try out Montrail Enduro-Soles



                    > (http://www.montrail .com/Product. aspx?prod= 151&cat=140& top=1). Angels



                    > sang. AWESOME insoles. They are designed to be heat-molded, but I've



                    > actually heard they work better if you just put them in the shoes



                    > as-is and let your natural walking movement slowly mold them over



                    > time. Pair those up with some light SmartWool socks and you're good



                    > to go! All this advice is obviously subjective and based on my own



                    > experiences (and feet), but hopefully some of that helps in your quest



                    > for better footwear. Happy trails! :)



                    >



                    > Sean the Red



                    >



                    > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Matt Ruby<mattruby@ymail. com> wrote:



                    >>



                    >>



                    >> My two cents are running shoes. As blisters in certain places of the foot



                    >> will shut your hike down possibly ruin your vacation. Especially, on your



                    >> heel as you mentioned earlier. I think my feet would prefer



                    >> wearing knives



                    >> than asolo boots. Made that mistake once.



                    >> As you said it this is an impossible question for many reasons.



                    >> bad ankles=boots



                    >> bad knees=shoes



                    >> bad blister problems=shoes



                    >> In need of solid foot support=boots



                    >>



                    >> Or you can try a hybrid like trail runners.



                    >>



                    >> One pound on your feet feels like 4 pounds in your pack, so if you are



                    >> going



                    >> on the heavy side with your pack already, boots make sense. Plus, with a



                    >> heavy pack you will need the extra support.



                    >> Matt



                    >> --- On Fri, 7/24/09, mm03g <mgmarabeti@yahoo. com> wrote:



                    >>



                    >> From: mm03g <mgmarabeti@yahoo. com>



                    >> Subject: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter



                    >> To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com



                    >> Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:14 PM



                    >>



                    >>



                    >>



                    >> I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's http://www.rei com/product/



                    >> 667406. Learning that I have two different size feet, I got a heel blister



                    >> on the right twice - once with liner, once w/out. Returned to REI and got



                    >> Merrell Phaser Peak http://www.rei com/product/ 748502 (3lbs). Picked a



                    >> 1/2



                    >> size bigger than my normal shoe size and am using heavy wool socks. Based



                    >> on



                    >> plan, not much break-in time available and they feel heavy. Generally,



                    >> people say get stiff soles for bpacking which means full boots. Some



                    >> prefer



                    >> very lightweight, softer shoes that require little to no break-in time.



                    >> I'm



                    >> 5'8, 160, no knee/feet problems, taking poles, need to decide best course



                    >> of



                    >> action soon. Realizing that footwear is probably the most personally



                    >> subjective aspect of gear selection... .any comments are still appreciated



                    >>



                    >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                    >>



                    >>



                    >



                    >



                    --



                    Would you like to learn about real estate in San Diego?



                    www.sandiegomodernh ome.com/blog























                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















                    _________________________________________________________________
                    Windows Live� SkyDrive�: Store, access, and share your photos. See how.
                    http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072009

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Peter Burke
                    this is what I wore over the last few weeks - heavier is always my choice: http://www.rei.com/product/721444 and I d never go lighter. Perhaps it s just my
                    Message 9 of 22 , Jul 25 7:25 AM
                    • 0 Attachment
                      this is what I wore over the last few weeks - heavier is always my choice:

                      http://www.rei.com/product/721444

                      and I'd never go lighter. Perhaps it's just my ankles or the big pack I
                      carry, but even in these boots, I almost twisted my ankles about 10
                      times on this summer's hike and I am certain that without the support of
                      the boots or my hiking poles, I would have had some real problems.
                      Meanwhile, my son walked the entire trail in North Face trail runners
                      and never had issues with twisting ankles, however, on snow the trail
                      runners were rather dangerous (tread caked up with snow and lost all
                      grip) and he constantly had to take them off when stream crossings were
                      just under water. Meanwhile I still could easily cross most of them
                      without getting water into the boots. The weight difference isn't even
                      that big and my socks stayed clean while he had to wash his daily, due
                      to the dirt that kept coming through the mesh of the trail runners.

                      We did run into two hikers on Silver Pass who got up there in sandals...
                      it took me 15 minutes pounding steps into the hard snow that afternoon
                      to get us up there. They said it took them about 90 minutes to get up
                      there. They may not have had solid shoes, but they did bring a ukulele
                      up to the pass to entertain us for a while. Priorities...

                      The boots I wore could use better insoles for more padding in the front
                      part, but other than that they are the kind of shoe you want when the
                      trail gets ugly, especially on those freshly built areas where the
                      smallest rocks you walk on are fist sized. After 250 miles, they look
                      just broken in, ready for another trip in the Sierras. Anyone interested
                      in the Sierra High Route next summer?


                      Peter



                      Barbara Burns wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > Jon,
                      >
                      > I'm heading South on the 11th and also planning on wearing my, as you
                      > say, "beloved" Vibram Five Fingers as much of the journey as
                      > possible. Do you have previous experience on the JMT with VFF? How
                      > are they on pumice, and other "sharpie" type rock. . .does it damage
                      > them? How do they feel overall? I'm really excited to wear mine most
                      > of the time. And, jeez, how do you keep your pack at 25# or under?
                      > There's a challenge!
                      >
                      > Karpani
                      >
                    • Peter Burke
                      here is one of the lighter shoes to avoid on the JMT My son used these TNF trail runners for the JMT this month
                      Message 10 of 22 , Jul 25 8:08 AM
                      • 0 Attachment
                        here is one of the "lighter" shoes to avoid on the JMT

                        My son used these TNF trail runners for the JMT this month

                        http://www.zappos.com/n/p/p/7364699/c/180193.html

                        summary:

                        these shoes are not tough enough for the JMT - his right shoe had the
                        sole separating from the inside front after just 50 miles, plus the tip
                        protection came off on both shoes after even less miles. They barely
                        held together for the length of the JMT.

                        the soles had near zero grip on snow - they kept caking up with the
                        first snow he stepped on and then turned into ice skates, which was
                        quite dangerous on Mather Pass where a slip on the steeper snow fields
                        could have been fatal. The lack of real heels and stiff edges really is
                        a disadvantage on snow over traditional boots.

                        the bottom of the shoe is not stiff enough to keep sharp stones from
                        bothering your feet - after 15 miles he usually was done for the day
                        with aching feet from the rough trails.

                        crossing streams meant wet feet, in spite of the large gaitors he was
                        wearing. He hiked with wet socks for many miles and got a number of
                        small blisters due to the wet skin this caused.

                        dirt creeps in through the mesh fabric of these shoes, turning sock
                        fabric into sandpaper. Sock washing was as important as eating clif bars
                        on our trip.
                      • Barbara Karagosian
                        Steripen waiting to happen - I love it! ... From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robert shattuck Sent:
                        Message 11 of 22 , Jul 25 9:18 AM
                        • 0 Attachment
                          "Steripen waiting to happen" - I love it!

                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com]
                          On Behalf Of robert shattuck
                          Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:41 PM
                          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [John Muir Trail]


                          it's friday night, sorting gear and getting itchy, so forgive me--Vibram
                          Five-fingers.
                          "The typical human foot is an anatomical marvel of evolution with 26 bones,
                          33 muscles and hundreds of sensory receptors, tendons and ligaments. Like
                          the rest of the body, to keep our feet healthy, they need to be stimulated
                          and exercised."
                          I had to kind of laugh when I read the copy for these things . . . wear them
                          on the JMT and you'll break 26 bones, 33 muscles and hundreds of receptors
                          will be receiving no more!!!!!
                          I hike a lot of the trail in TEVA's ( sandals ) and there's certainly a lot
                          of it that's easy on the feet, sort of, but I'd say these look like a
                          "steri-pen" waiting to happen. cute in camp, though.
                          charge on!!!!! (but save your feet)

                          Bob
                          http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                          From: karpanilove@...
                          Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 22:06:30 -0700
                          Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter





















                          Jon,



                          I'm heading South on the 11th and also planning on wearing my, as you say,
                          "beloved" Vibram Five Fingers as much of the journey as possible. Do you
                          have previous experience on the JMT with VFF? How are they on pumice, and
                          other "sharpie" type rock. . .does it damage them? How do they feel
                          overall? I'm really excited to wear mine most of the time. And, jeez, how
                          do you keep your pack at 25# or under? There's a challenge!



                          Karpani



                          --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Jon Sterling <mistersterling@...> wrote:



                          From: Jon Sterling <mistersterling@...>

                          Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter

                          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com

                          Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 11:27 AM







                          I'm going with a pair of New Balance 904s and my beloved Vibram Five



                          Fingers. My total pack weight will never be over 25 pounds. I'll be



                          sure to report back with my success or failure in the footwear



                          department. Headed South starting August 10th.



                          On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Sean Mahoney<cutlassdude70@ gmail.com>
                          wrote:



                          >



                          >



                          > I second that recommendation. I started backpacking in boots (Asolo



                          > boots, in fact) and quickly learned to hate the weight. I switched



                          > over to trail runners and have never looked back. The only trips I



                          > bother wearing boots now are those on snow, when I'll likely need to



                          > kick steps or use crampons. If you ask me, I think that some people



                          > actually have more potential for injury by wearing boots. The



                          > additional weight is hard on your muscles and knees, and those in



                          > boots have a tendency to almost stumble downhill due to fatigue and



                          > end up relying on the rugged boots to protect their feet as they



                          > accidentally kick rocks, roots, and logs. If you wear good trail



                          > runners (a good sole is still important) and just watch where you



                          > place your feet as you head downhill, I think you'll be MUCH happier.



                          > I know that some on this list will strongly disagree, but that's just



                          > my take on the subject. In the end, you should choose what will work



                          > best for your feet and what you feel most comfortable with.



                          >



                          > If you go with trail runners, make sure and select a well-reviewed



                          > pair that fit you the best. My feet need a wide toe-box, so I'm much



                          > more limited in my options. I previously had The North Face Prophecy



                          > trail runners (which fit my feet perfectly), but they killed off that



                          > line and replaced them with the Prophecy II - which is a completely



                          > different fit (they narrowed the toe-box and moved the mesh panels



                          > such that I can't wear them anymore). I then blindly ordered The



                          > North Face Cooper's Hill trail runners online and hoped that they



                          > would fit correctly when they arrived since no store seemed to carry



                          > them (but they were one of the lightest pairs out there). They fit



                          > OK, but the toe box was still slightly too narrow, the sole wasn't



                          > Vibram (it was the softer Ultra-tac), and the mesh panel started to



                          > rip along the top on one side after the first dayhike in them (albeit



                          > a 16-mile day). I considered the Montrail Hardrocks, but have read



                          > numerous quality complaints since Montrail was bought by Columbia a



                          > few years back (big surprise).



                          >



                          > If you have relatively wide feet like me, you may want to check out



                          > the Merrell Moab Ventilators (the low-top cross-trainers, not the



                          > mids). They offer wide sizes (which no REI seems to carry), but the



                          > length tends to run about half a size shorter than you would expect.



                          > I also have feet of two different sizes (one is 10.5 and one is 11).



                          > I typically buy hiking footwear in a 12 (to ensure I avoid banging my



                          > toes against the front), but found that when I did the toe-kick test



                          > with the Ventilators in REI that the 12 wasn't quite long enough.



                          > Since Merrell doesn't make a 12.5, I ordered a pair of 13 Wides online



                          > and fell in love as soon as I put them on. I've already put some



                          > miles in the Sierra on them in the past few weeks and they kick some



                          > serious ass. :)



                          >



                          > And if you end up going with the Merrells, I'd suggest getting better



                          > insoles. The orange ones that come with them are flimsy little things



                          > that offer almost no cushion. Per the advice of PCT thru-hiker Erik



                          > the Black (http://www.eriktheb lack.com/), I avoided Superfeet and



                          > decided to try out Montrail Enduro-Soles



                          > (http://www.montrail .com/Product. aspx?prod= 151&cat=140& top=1). Angels



                          > sang. AWESOME insoles. They are designed to be heat-molded, but I've



                          > actually heard they work better if you just put them in the shoes



                          > as-is and let your natural walking movement slowly mold them over



                          > time. Pair those up with some light SmartWool socks and you're good



                          > to go! All this advice is obviously subjective and based on my own



                          > experiences (and feet), but hopefully some of that helps in your quest



                          > for better footwear. Happy trails! :)



                          >



                          > Sean the Red



                          >



                          > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Matt Ruby<mattruby@ymail. com> wrote:



                          >>



                          >>



                          >> My two cents are running shoes. As blisters in certain places of the
                          foot



                          >> will shut your hike down possibly ruin your vacation. Especially, on
                          your



                          >> heel as you mentioned earlier. I think my feet would prefer



                          >> wearing knives



                          >> than asolo boots. Made that mistake once.



                          >> As you said it this is an impossible question for many reasons.



                          >> bad ankles=boots



                          >> bad knees=shoes



                          >> bad blister problems=shoes



                          >> In need of solid foot support=boots



                          >>



                          >> Or you can try a hybrid like trail runners.



                          >>



                          >> One pound on your feet feels like 4 pounds in your pack, so if you are



                          >> going



                          >> on the heavy side with your pack already, boots make sense. Plus, with a



                          >> heavy pack you will need the extra support.



                          >> Matt



                          >> --- On Fri, 7/24/09, mm03g <mgmarabeti@yahoo. com> wrote:



                          >>



                          >> From: mm03g <mgmarabeti@yahoo. com>



                          >> Subject: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter



                          >> To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com



                          >> Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:14 PM



                          >>



                          >>



                          >>



                          >> I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's http://www.rei com/product/



                          >> 667406. Learning that I have two different size feet, I got a heel
                          blister



                          >> on the right twice - once with liner, once w/out. Returned to REI and got



                          >> Merrell Phaser Peak http://www.rei com/product/ 748502 (3lbs). Picked a



                          >> 1/2



                          >> size bigger than my normal shoe size and am using heavy wool socks. Based



                          >> on



                          >> plan, not much break-in time available and they feel heavy. Generally,



                          >> people say get stiff soles for bpacking which means full boots. Some



                          >> prefer



                          >> very lightweight, softer shoes that require little to no break-in time.



                          >> I'm



                          >> 5'8, 160, no knee/feet problems, taking poles, need to decide best course



                          >> of



                          >> action soon. Realizing that footwear is probably the most personally



                          >> subjective aspect of gear selection... .any comments are still
                          appreciated



                          >>



                          >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                          >>



                          >>



                          >



                          >



                          --



                          Would you like to learn about real estate in San Diego?



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                        • Jon Sterling
                          I m fully aware that I could be setting myself up for trouble with the Vibram Five Fingers (also why the New Balance shoes are coming with me). I have been on
                          Message 12 of 22 , Jul 25 11:19 AM
                          • 0 Attachment
                            I'm fully aware that I could be setting myself up for trouble with the
                            Vibram Five Fingers (also why the New Balance shoes are coming with
                            me). I have been on plenty of rough rocky hiking trails with them,
                            but not the JMT. I HIGHLY recommend wearing them for several weeks,
                            at least, to allow your feet to get used to them. They separate your
                            toes, which is shocking to your feet, ankles, calves, etc. if you have
                            spent your entire life wearing shoes everywhere like most people. I
                            use the example of the ultra-marathoners from Africa. Did you ever
                            notice that they're barefoot? Same idea with the Five Fingers. I do
                            Kettlebell training as well, and many of the hardcore Kettlebell guys
                            wear these things.

                            I'd be willing to put my money where my mouth is. How about this: For
                            any of the skeptics who meet me on the trail and catch me in the Five
                            Fingers, you donate a dollar to charity. For any of you who meet me
                            on the trail in my New Balance shoes, I donate a dollar to charity.
                            Sound fair?

                            For the 25 pound pack, I tend to move fast, which cuts down on food
                            weight. I've also invested a decent sum in ultralight gear. Yes, I
                            understand I should take my time, but I have long legs, youthful
                            exuberance, and a generally impatient demeanor. I accept my
                            shortcomings.






                            On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Barbara Burns<karpanilove@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > Jon,
                            >
                            > I'm heading South on the 11th and also planning on wearing my, as you say,
                            > "beloved" Vibram Five Fingers as much of the journey as possible.  Do you
                            > have previous experience on the JMT with VFF?  How are they on pumice, and
                            > other "sharpie" type rock. . .does it damage them?  How do they feel
                            > overall?  I'm really excited to wear mine most of the time.  And, jeez, how
                            > do you keep your pack at 25# or under?  There's a challenge!
                            >
                            > Karpani
                            >
                            > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Jon Sterling <mistersterling@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > From: Jon Sterling <mistersterling@...>
                            > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter
                            > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                            > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 11:27 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I'm going with a pair of New Balance 904s and my beloved Vibram Five
                            >
                            > Fingers. My total pack weight will never be over 25 pounds. I'll be
                            >
                            > sure to report back with my success or failure in the footwear
                            >
                            > department. Headed South starting August 10th.
                            >
                            > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Sean Mahoney<cutlassdude70@ gmail.com>
                            > wrote:
                            >
                            >>
                            >
                            >>
                            >
                            >> I second that recommendation. I started backpacking in boots (Asolo
                            >
                            >> boots, in fact) and quickly learned to hate the weight. I switched
                            >
                            >> over to trail runners and have never looked back. The only trips I
                            >
                            >> bother wearing boots now are those on snow, when I'll likely need to
                            >
                            >> kick steps or use crampons. If you ask me, I think that some people
                            >
                            >> actually have more potential for injury by wearing boots. The
                            >
                            >> additional weight is hard on your muscles and knees, and those in
                            >
                            >> boots have a tendency to almost stumble downhill due to fatigue and
                            >
                            >> end up relying on the rugged boots to protect their feet as they
                            >
                            >> accidentally kick rocks, roots, and logs. If you wear good trail
                            >
                            >> runners (a good sole is still important) and just watch where you
                            >
                            >> place your feet as you head downhill, I think you'll be MUCH happier.
                            >
                            >> I know that some on this list will strongly disagree, but that's just
                            >
                            >> my take on the subject. In the end, you should choose what will work
                            >
                            >> best for your feet and what you feel most comfortable with.
                            >
                            >>
                            >
                            >> If you go with trail runners, make sure and select a well-reviewed
                            >
                            >> pair that fit you the best. My feet need a wide toe-box, so I'm much
                            >
                            >> more limited in my options. I previously had The North Face Prophecy
                            >
                            >> trail runners (which fit my feet perfectly), but they killed off that
                            >
                            >> line and replaced them with the Prophecy II - which is a completely
                            >
                            >> different fit (they narrowed the toe-box and moved the mesh panels
                            >
                            >> such that I can't wear them anymore). I then blindly ordered The
                            >
                            >> North Face Cooper's Hill trail runners online and hoped that they
                            >
                            >> would fit correctly when they arrived since no store seemed to carry
                            >
                            >> them (but they were one of the lightest pairs out there). They fit
                            >
                            >> OK, but the toe box was still slightly too narrow, the sole wasn't
                            >
                            >> Vibram (it was the softer Ultra-tac), and the mesh panel started to
                            >
                            >> rip along the top on one side after the first dayhike in them (albeit
                            >
                            >> a 16-mile day). I considered the Montrail Hardrocks, but have read
                            >
                            >> numerous quality complaints since Montrail was bought by Columbia a
                            >
                            >> few years back (big surprise).
                            >
                            >>
                            >
                            >> If you have relatively wide feet like me, you may want to check out
                            >
                            >> the Merrell Moab Ventilators (the low-top cross-trainers, not the
                            >
                            >> mids). They offer wide sizes (which no REI seems to carry), but the
                            >
                            >> length tends to run about half a size shorter than you would expect.
                            >
                            >> I also have feet of two different sizes (one is 10.5 and one is 11).
                            >
                            >> I typically buy hiking footwear in a 12 (to ensure I avoid banging my
                            >
                            >> toes against the front), but found that when I did the toe-kick test
                            >
                            >> with the Ventilators in REI that the 12 wasn't quite long enough.
                            >
                            >> Since Merrell doesn't make a 12.5, I ordered a pair of 13 Wides online
                            >
                            >> and fell in love as soon as I put them on. I've already put some
                            >
                            >> miles in the Sierra on them in the past few weeks and they kick some
                            >
                            >> serious ass. :)
                            >
                            >>
                            >
                            >> And if you end up going with the Merrells, I'd suggest getting better
                            >
                            >> insoles. The orange ones that come with them are flimsy little things
                            >
                            >> that offer almost no cushion. Per the advice of PCT thru-hiker Erik
                            >
                            >> the Black (http://www.eriktheb lack.com/), I avoided Superfeet and
                            >
                            >> decided to try out Montrail Enduro-Soles
                            >
                            >> (http://www.montrail .com/Product. aspx?prod= 151&cat=140& top=1). Angels
                            >
                            >> sang. AWESOME insoles. They are designed to be heat-molded, but I've
                            >
                            >> actually heard they work better if you just put them in the shoes
                            >
                            >> as-is and let your natural walking movement slowly mold them over
                            >
                            >> time. Pair those up with some light SmartWool socks and you're good
                            >
                            >> to go! All this advice is obviously subjective and based on my own
                            >
                            >> experiences (and feet), but hopefully some of that helps in your quest
                            >
                            >> for better footwear. Happy trails! :)
                            >
                            >>
                            >
                            >> Sean the Red
                            >
                            >>
                            >
                            >> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Matt Ruby<mattruby@ymail. com> wrote:
                            >
                            >>>
                            >
                            >>>
                            >
                            >>> My two cents are running shoes.  As blisters in certain places of the
                            >>> foot
                            >
                            >>> will shut your hike down possibly ruin your vacation.  Especially, on
                            >>> your
                            >
                            >>> heel as you mentioned earlier.  I think my feet would prefer
                            >
                            >>> wearing knives
                            >
                            >>> than asolo boots.  Made that mistake once.
                            >
                            >>> As you said it this is an impossible question for many reasons.
                            >
                            >>> bad ankles=boots
                            >
                            >>> bad knees=shoes
                            >
                            >>> bad blister problems=shoes
                            >
                            >>> In need of solid foot support=boots
                            >
                            >>>
                            >
                            >>> Or you can try a hybrid like trail runners.
                            >
                            >>>
                            >
                            >>> One pound on your feet feels like 4 pounds in your pack, so if you are
                            >
                            >>> going
                            >
                            >>> on the heavy side with your pack already, boots make sense.  Plus, with a
                            >
                            >>> heavy pack you will need the extra support.
                            >
                            >>> Matt
                            >
                            >>> --- On Fri, 7/24/09, mm03g <mgmarabeti@yahoo. com> wrote:
                            >
                            >>>
                            >
                            >>> From: mm03g <mgmarabeti@yahoo. com>
                            >
                            >>> Subject: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter
                            >
                            >>> To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com
                            >
                            >>> Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:14 PM
                            >
                            >>>
                            >
                            >>>
                            >
                            >>>
                            >
                            >>> I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's http://www.rei com/product/
                            >
                            >>> 667406. Learning that I have two different size feet, I got a heel
                            >>> blister
                            >
                            >>> on the right twice - once with liner, once w/out. Returned to REI and got
                            >
                            >>> Merrell Phaser Peak http://www.rei com/product/ 748502 (3lbs). Picked a
                            >
                            >>> 1/2
                            >
                            >>> size bigger than my normal shoe size and am using heavy wool socks. Based
                            >
                            >>> on
                            >
                            >>> plan, not much break-in time available and they feel heavy. Generally,
                            >
                            >>> people say get stiff soles for bpacking which means full boots. Some
                            >
                            >>> prefer
                            >
                            >>> very lightweight, softer shoes that require little to no break-in time.
                            >
                            >>> I'm
                            >
                            >>> 5'8, 160, no knee/feet problems, taking poles, need to decide best course
                            >
                            >>> of
                            >
                            >>> action soon. Realizing that footwear is probably the most personally
                            >
                            >>> subjective aspect of gear selection... .any comments are still
                            >>> appreciated
                            >
                            >>>
                            >
                            >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >>>
                            >
                            >>>
                            >
                            >>
                            >
                            >>
                            >
                            > --
                            >
                            > Would you like to learn about real estate in San Diego?
                            >
                            > www.sandiegomodernh ome.com/blog
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >



                            --
                            Would you like to learn about real estate in San Diego?
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                          • robert shattuck
                            any of the skeptics who meet me on the trail and catch me in the Five Fingers At least we won t need a special, secret handshake or anything to figure out
                            Message 13 of 22 , Jul 25 1:55 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              "any of the skeptics who meet me on the trail and catch me in the Five
                              Fingers"
                              At least we won't need a special, "secret handshake" or anything to figure out who you are and my "trackin' plan" will be easy this time.


                              http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                              From: mistersterling@...
                              Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2009 11:19:08 -0700
                              Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter





















                              I'm fully aware that I could be setting myself up for trouble with the

                              Vibram Five Fingers (also why the New Balance shoes are coming with

                              me). I have been on plenty of rough rocky hiking trails with them,

                              but not the JMT. I HIGHLY recommend wearing them for several weeks,

                              at least, to allow your feet to get used to them. They separate your

                              toes, which is shocking to your feet, ankles, calves, etc. if you have

                              spent your entire life wearing shoes everywhere like most people. I

                              use the example of the ultra-marathoners from Africa. Did you ever

                              notice that they're barefoot? Same idea with the Five Fingers. I do

                              Kettlebell training as well, and many of the hardcore Kettlebell guys

                              wear these things.



                              I'd be willing to put my money where my mouth is. How about this: For

                              any of the skeptics who meet me on the trail and catch me in the Five

                              Fingers, you donate a dollar to charity. For any of you who meet me

                              on the trail in my New Balance shoes, I donate a dollar to charity.

                              Sound fair?



                              For the 25 pound pack, I tend to move fast, which cuts down on food

                              weight. I've also invested a decent sum in ultralight gear. Yes, I

                              understand I should take my time, but I have long legs, youthful

                              exuberance, and a generally impatient demeanor. I accept my

                              shortcomings.



                              On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:06 PM, Barbara Burns<karpanilove@...> wrote:

                              >

                              >

                              > Jon,

                              >

                              > I'm heading South on the 11th and also planning on wearing my, as you say,

                              > "beloved" Vibram Five Fingers as much of the journey as possible. Do you

                              > have previous experience on the JMT with VFF? How are they on pumice, and

                              > other "sharpie" type rock. . .does it damage them? How do they feel

                              > overall? I'm really excited to wear mine most of the time. And, jeez, how

                              > do you keep your pack at 25# or under? There's a challenge!

                              >

                              > Karpani

                              >

                              > --- On Fri, 7/24/09, Jon Sterling <mistersterling@...> wrote:

                              >

                              > From: Jon Sterling <mistersterling@...>

                              > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter

                              > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com

                              > Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 11:27 AM

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              > I'm going with a pair of New Balance 904s and my beloved Vibram Five

                              >

                              > Fingers. My total pack weight will never be over 25 pounds. I'll be

                              >

                              > sure to report back with my success or failure in the footwear

                              >

                              > department. Headed South starting August 10th.

                              >

                              > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Sean Mahoney<cutlassdude70@ gmail.com>

                              > wrote:

                              >

                              >>

                              >

                              >>

                              >

                              >> I second that recommendation. I started backpacking in boots (Asolo

                              >

                              >> boots, in fact) and quickly learned to hate the weight. I switched

                              >

                              >> over to trail runners and have never looked back. The only trips I

                              >

                              >> bother wearing boots now are those on snow, when I'll likely need to

                              >

                              >> kick steps or use crampons. If you ask me, I think that some people

                              >

                              >> actually have more potential for injury by wearing boots. The

                              >

                              >> additional weight is hard on your muscles and knees, and those in

                              >

                              >> boots have a tendency to almost stumble downhill due to fatigue and

                              >

                              >> end up relying on the rugged boots to protect their feet as they

                              >

                              >> accidentally kick rocks, roots, and logs. If you wear good trail

                              >

                              >> runners (a good sole is still important) and just watch where you

                              >

                              >> place your feet as you head downhill, I think you'll be MUCH happier.

                              >

                              >> I know that some on this list will strongly disagree, but that's just

                              >

                              >> my take on the subject. In the end, you should choose what will work

                              >

                              >> best for your feet and what you feel most comfortable with.

                              >

                              >>

                              >

                              >> If you go with trail runners, make sure and select a well-reviewed

                              >

                              >> pair that fit you the best. My feet need a wide toe-box, so I'm much

                              >

                              >> more limited in my options. I previously had The North Face Prophecy

                              >

                              >> trail runners (which fit my feet perfectly), but they killed off that

                              >

                              >> line and replaced them with the Prophecy II - which is a completely

                              >

                              >> different fit (they narrowed the toe-box and moved the mesh panels

                              >

                              >> such that I can't wear them anymore). I then blindly ordered The

                              >

                              >> North Face Cooper's Hill trail runners online and hoped that they

                              >

                              >> would fit correctly when they arrived since no store seemed to carry

                              >

                              >> them (but they were one of the lightest pairs out there). They fit

                              >

                              >> OK, but the toe box was still slightly too narrow, the sole wasn't

                              >

                              >> Vibram (it was the softer Ultra-tac), and the mesh panel started to

                              >

                              >> rip along the top on one side after the first dayhike in them (albeit

                              >

                              >> a 16-mile day). I considered the Montrail Hardrocks, but have read

                              >

                              >> numerous quality complaints since Montrail was bought by Columbia a

                              >

                              >> few years back (big surprise).

                              >

                              >>

                              >

                              >> If you have relatively wide feet like me, you may want to check out

                              >

                              >> the Merrell Moab Ventilators (the low-top cross-trainers, not the

                              >

                              >> mids). They offer wide sizes (which no REI seems to carry), but the

                              >

                              >> length tends to run about half a size shorter than you would expect.

                              >

                              >> I also have feet of two different sizes (one is 10.5 and one is 11).

                              >

                              >> I typically buy hiking footwear in a 12 (to ensure I avoid banging my

                              >

                              >> toes against the front), but found that when I did the toe-kick test

                              >

                              >> with the Ventilators in REI that the 12 wasn't quite long enough.

                              >

                              >> Since Merrell doesn't make a 12.5, I ordered a pair of 13 Wides online

                              >

                              >> and fell in love as soon as I put them on. I've already put some

                              >

                              >> miles in the Sierra on them in the past few weeks and they kick some

                              >

                              >> serious ass. :)

                              >

                              >>

                              >

                              >> And if you end up going with the Merrells, I'd suggest getting better

                              >

                              >> insoles. The orange ones that come with them are flimsy little things

                              >

                              >> that offer almost no cushion. Per the advice of PCT thru-hiker Erik

                              >

                              >> the Black (http://www.eriktheb lack.com/), I avoided Superfeet and

                              >

                              >> decided to try out Montrail Enduro-Soles

                              >

                              >> (http://www.montrail .com/Product. aspx?prod= 151&cat=140& top=1). Angels

                              >

                              >> sang. AWESOME insoles. They are designed to be heat-molded, but I've

                              >

                              >> actually heard they work better if you just put them in the shoes

                              >

                              >> as-is and let your natural walking movement slowly mold them over

                              >

                              >> time. Pair those up with some light SmartWool socks and you're good

                              >

                              >> to go! All this advice is obviously subjective and based on my own

                              >

                              >> experiences (and feet), but hopefully some of that helps in your quest

                              >

                              >> for better footwear. Happy trails! :)

                              >

                              >>

                              >

                              >> Sean the Red

                              >

                              >>

                              >

                              >> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Matt Ruby<mattruby@ymail. com> wrote:

                              >

                              >>>

                              >

                              >>>

                              >

                              >>> My two cents are running shoes. As blisters in certain places of the

                              >>> foot

                              >

                              >>> will shut your hike down possibly ruin your vacation. Especially, on

                              >>> your

                              >

                              >>> heel as you mentioned earlier. I think my feet would prefer

                              >

                              >>> wearing knives

                              >

                              >>> than asolo boots. Made that mistake once.

                              >

                              >>> As you said it this is an impossible question for many reasons.

                              >

                              >>> bad ankles=boots

                              >

                              >>> bad knees=shoes

                              >

                              >>> bad blister problems=shoes

                              >

                              >>> In need of solid foot support=boots

                              >

                              >>>

                              >

                              >>> Or you can try a hybrid like trail runners.

                              >

                              >>>

                              >

                              >>> One pound on your feet feels like 4 pounds in your pack, so if you are

                              >

                              >>> going

                              >

                              >>> on the heavy side with your pack already, boots make sense. Plus, with a

                              >

                              >>> heavy pack you will need the extra support.

                              >

                              >>> Matt

                              >

                              >>> --- On Fri, 7/24/09, mm03g <mgmarabeti@yahoo. com> wrote:

                              >

                              >>>

                              >

                              >>> From: mm03g <mgmarabeti@yahoo. com>

                              >

                              >>> Subject: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter

                              >

                              >>> To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com

                              >

                              >>> Date: Friday, July 24, 2009, 2:14 PM

                              >

                              >>>

                              >

                              >>>

                              >

                              >>>

                              >

                              >>> I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's http://www.rei com/product/

                              >

                              >>> 667406. Learning that I have two different size feet, I got a heel

                              >>> blister

                              >

                              >>> on the right twice - once with liner, once w/out. Returned to REI and got

                              >

                              >>> Merrell Phaser Peak http://www.rei com/product/ 748502 (3lbs). Picked a

                              >

                              >>> 1/2

                              >

                              >>> size bigger than my normal shoe size and am using heavy wool socks. Based

                              >

                              >>> on

                              >

                              >>> plan, not much break-in time available and they feel heavy. Generally,

                              >

                              >>> people say get stiff soles for bpacking which means full boots. Some

                              >

                              >>> prefer

                              >

                              >>> very lightweight, softer shoes that require little to no break-in time.

                              >

                              >>> I'm

                              >

                              >>> 5'8, 160, no knee/feet problems, taking poles, need to decide best course

                              >

                              >>> of

                              >

                              >>> action soon. Realizing that footwear is probably the most personally

                              >

                              >>> subjective aspect of gear selection... .any comments are still

                              >>> appreciated

                              >

                              >>>

                              >

                              >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              >

                              >>>

                              >

                              >>>

                              >

                              >>

                              >

                              >>

                              >

                              > --

                              >

                              > Would you like to learn about real estate in San Diego?

                              >

                              > www.sandiegomodernh ome.com/blog

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              >

                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              >

                              >



                              --

                              Would you like to learn about real estate in San Diego?

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                              _________________________________________________________________
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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • John Ladd
                              I m a boot guy. I don t know that I can comment real intelligently because I never tried lighter footwear. But I think that my downhill experience is way
                              Message 14 of 22 , Jul 31 5:45 AM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                I'm a boot guy. I don't know that I can comment real intelligently because
                                I never tried lighter footwear. But I think that my downhill experience is
                                way better with ankle support (and trekking poles) and I'm willing to pay
                                the cost on the uphills. I feel like I can fly downhill.

                                I hiked last summer NoBo with a lot of the PCT thru-hikers. A lot of them
                                wear trail runners and carry only 1 or 2 pairs of socks. Saw a LOT of foot
                                problems in that group.

                                I'm retired so I get to wear boots as my everyday footwear. It helps avoid
                                blisters because my feet are accustomed to boots. I save my best pair of
                                boots for the trail and wear my formerly-best-pair in town. I think it
                                helps even though I'm not wearing the exact same pair in advance of the
                                trip. I'll wear the exact same pair on a few day hikes in advance, jut to
                                make sure that they are not creating some unexpected hotspots.

                                I think the best blister avoidance, for whatever footwear, is to be really
                                vigilant about addressing hotspots before they become blisters. I've had
                                good luck with the Compeed line of bandaids, which seem to adhere well to my
                                feet and have a cushioning aspect

                                http://www.drugstore.com/qxp12929_333181_sespider/band_aid/blister_block_regular___for_the_prevention_of_blisters.htm

                                John Curran Ladd
                                1616 Castro Street
                                San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                                415-648-9279


                                On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 7:14 AM, mm03g <mgmarabeti@...> wrote:

                                >
                                >
                                > I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's
                                > http://www.rei.com/product/667406. Learning that I have two different size
                                > feet, I got a heel blister on the right twice - once with liner, once w/out.
                                > Returned to REI and got Merrell Phaser Peak
                                > http://www.rei.com/product/748502 (3lbs). Picked a 1/2 size bigger than my
                                > normal shoe size and am using heavy wool socks. Based on plan, not much
                                > break-in time available and they feel heavy. Generally, people say get stiff
                                > soles for bpacking which means full boots. Some prefer very lightweight,
                                > softer shoes that require little to no break-in time. I'm 5'8, 160, no
                                > knee/feet problems, taking poles, need to decide best course of action soon.
                                > Realizing that footwear is probably the most personally subjective aspect of
                                > gear selection....any comments are still appreciated
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Rich Ehli
                                Strongly agree. This is one time you don t want to tough it out. You need to stop immediately and attend to the hot spot. Once detected, the problem will
                                Message 15 of 22 , Jul 31 8:38 AM
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                                  Strongly agree. This is one time you don't want to 'tough it out.' You
                                  need to stop immediately and attend to the hot spot. Once detected, the
                                  problem will only get worse and probably much more quickly than you
                                  think. Many hikers carry a length of duct tape wrapped around a water
                                  bottle or trekking stick. Duct tape is as good if not better than any
                                  foot specific product. Cons: not easy to remove and the adhesive will
                                  gum up and stain liner socks.

                                  John Ladd wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > I think the best blister avoidance, for whatever footwear, is to be really
                                  > vigilant about addressing hotspots before they become blisters.
                                  >
                                • John Ladd
                                  Another good band-aid product for hot spots, which seems to adhere well and provides a bit of a cushion between liner sock and skin is Band-Aid Activ-Flex. See
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Jul 31 10:33 AM
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                                    Another good band-aid product for hot spots, which seems to adhere well and
                                    provides a bit of a cushion between liner sock and skin is

                                    Band-Aid Activ-Flex.

                                    See http://www.bandaid.com/productList.do?typeId=3 (look down the page until
                                    you see it)

                                    Available in various sizes. I take an assortment of these and try to find
                                    one that best fits the location of my hot spots.

                                    John Curran Ladd
                                    1616 Castro Street
                                    San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                                    415-648-9279


                                    On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:45 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:

                                    > ...
                                    > I think the best blister avoidance, for whatever footwear, is to be really
                                    > vigilant about addressing hotspots before they become blisters. I've had
                                    > good luck with the Compeed line of bandaids, which seem to adhere well to my
                                    > feet and have a cushioning aspect
                                    >


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • mm03g
                                    ... In conclusion to my original post, I have found the Vasque Breeze GTX XCR (http://www.rei.com/product/737707) to be the best overall choice for me at this
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Jul 31 2:23 PM
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                                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "mm03g" <mgmarabeti@...> wrote:I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's http://www.rei.com/product/667406. Learning that I have two different size feet, I got a heel blister on the right twice - once with liner, once w/out. Returned to REI and got Merrell Phaser Peak http://www.rei.com/product/748502 (3lbs). .......


                                      In conclusion to my original post, I have found the Vasque Breeze GTX XCR (http://www.rei.com/product/737707) to be the best overall choice for me at this time. No break-in time req'd but a surprisingly stiff sole. Very comfortable, no need for a wide size, no pressure points, room for swelling. Walked several miles yesterday on rocky trail with SuperFeet, liner sock and thick SmartWool. Also added a SecondSkin patch to a mostly healed blister. Have the Dr Scholl's equivalent as well (they're identical but SecondSkin is slightly bigger). Between that, moleskin, BodyGlide, and duct tape around the Nalgene, I will likely be over-prepared. Having this one aspect resolved is a huge relief.

                                      MANY thanks for everyone's advice and opinions.
                                    • robert shattuck
                                      I just gotta say, REI monarch IV series boots . . . the Monarchs last year I bought a pair a week before going to Nepal (having bought a pair of too-narrow
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Jul 31 3:10 PM
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                                        I just gotta say, REI monarch IV series boots . . . "the Monarchs" last year I bought a pair a week before going to Nepal (having bought a pair of too-narrow scarpa boots a week or so before that, that I returned) and wore them for one afternoon of easy hill hiking, before taking off.
                                        They were very comfortable right out of the box and I never had any problems with my feet, although, after twenty-plus days of hiking in Nepal and then a few weeks later, on the JMT, they did blow up on me. sides split at the sole seams, but they remained comfortable.
                                        I think if I had given them a little care, like water repellant, I might have made them last longer . . . I just bought a second pair and they've got about three hours of side walk on them . . . we'll see how they are, end of August.
                                        bob
                                        http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                                        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        From: mgmarabeti@...
                                        Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:23:44 +0000
                                        Subject: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter - My conclusion





















                                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "mm03g" <mgmarabeti@...> wrote:I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's http://www.rei.com/product/667406. Learning that I have two different size feet, I got a heel blister on the right twice - once with liner, once w/out. Returned to REI and got Merrell Phaser Peak http://www.rei.com/product/748502 (3lbs). .......



                                        In conclusion to my original post, I have found the Vasque Breeze GTX XCR (http://www.rei.com/product/737707) to be the best overall choice for me at this time. No break-in time req'd but a surprisingly stiff sole. Very comfortable, no need for a wide size, no pressure points, room for swelling. Walked several miles yesterday on rocky trail with SuperFeet, liner sock and thick SmartWool. Also added a SecondSkin patch to a mostly healed blister. Have the Dr Scholl's equivalent as well (they're identical but SecondSkin is slightly bigger). Between that, moleskin, BodyGlide, and duct tape around the Nalgene, I will likely be over-prepared. Having this one aspect resolved is a huge relief.



                                        MANY thanks for everyone's advice and opinions.






















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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Bill
                                        I ve enjoyed success with athletic tape (e.g.,
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Jul 31 7:26 PM
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                                          I've enjoyed success with athletic tape (e.g., <http://www.amazon.com/Mueller-ATHLETIC-TAPE-ROLL-WHITE/dp/B001N06OK6/ref=sr_1_19?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1249093108&sr=1-19>. It adheres very well, even when wet, and conforms better than duct tape. It's also not too difficult to remove, and a full roll is easy to carry. One con: dark colors can stain liner socks.

                                          Bill

                                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Another good band-aid product for hot spots, which seems to adhere well and
                                          > provides a bit of a cushion between liner sock and skin is
                                          >
                                          > Band-Aid Activ-Flex.
                                          >
                                          > See http://www.bandaid.com/productList.do?typeId=3 (look down the page until
                                          > you see it)
                                          >
                                          > Available in various sizes. I take an assortment of these and try to find
                                          > one that best fits the location of my hot spots.
                                          >
                                          > John Curran Ladd
                                          > 1616 Castro Street
                                          > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                                          > 415-648-9279
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:45 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > > ...
                                          > > I think the best blister avoidance, for whatever footwear, is to be really
                                          > > vigilant about addressing hotspots before they become blisters. I've had
                                          > > good luck with the Compeed line of bandaids, which seem to adhere well to my
                                          > > feet and have a cushioning aspect
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                        • Rich Ehli
                                          Mention of Nepal and boots reminds me of my friend s experience on a trek many years ago in that country. His boots were snatched from outside his tent one
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Jul 31 7:29 PM
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                                            Mention of Nepal and boots reminds me of my friend's experience on a
                                            trek many years ago in that country. His boots were snatched from
                                            outside his tent one night. He did the rest of the trek in native
                                            footwear, and he said it wasn't a lot of fun.

                                            robert shattuck wrote:
                                            > I just gotta say, REI monarch IV series boots . . . "the Monarchs" last year I bought a pair a week before going to Nepal (having bought a pair of too-narrow scarpa boots a week or so before that, that I returned) and wore them for one afternoon of easy hill hiking, before taking off.
                                            > They were very comfortable right out of the box and I never had any problems with my feet, although, after twenty-plus days of hiking in Nepal and then a few weeks later, on the JMT, they did blow up on me. sides split at the sole seams, but they remained comfortable.
                                            > I think if I had given them a little care, like water repellant, I might have made them last longer . . . I just bought a second pair and they've got about three hours of side walk on them . . . we'll see how they are, end of August.
                                            > bob
                                            > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            > From: mgmarabeti@...
                                            > Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 21:23:44 +0000
                                            > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Footwear - heavier vs lighter - My conclusion
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "mm03g" <mgmarabeti@...> wrote:I started breaking-in a pair of Asolo FSN's http://www.rei.com/product/667406. Learning that I have two different size feet, I got a heel blister on the right twice - once with liner, once w/out. Returned to REI and got Merrell Phaser Peak http://www.rei.com/product/748502 (3lbs). .......
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > In conclusion to my original post, I have found the Vasque Breeze GTX XCR (http://www.rei.com/product/737707) to be the best overall choice for me at this time. No break-in time req'd but a surprisingly stiff sole. Very comfortable, no need for a wide size, no pressure points, room for swelling. Walked several miles yesterday on rocky trail with SuperFeet, liner sock and thick SmartWool. Also added a SecondSkin patch to a mostly healed blister. Have the Dr Scholl's equivalent as well (they're identical but SecondSkin is slightly bigger). Between that, moleskin, BodyGlide, and duct tape around the Nalgene, I will likely be over-prepared. Having this one aspect resolved is a huge relief.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > MANY thanks for everyone's advice and opinions.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > _________________________________________________________________
                                            > Windows Live™ SkyDrive™: Store, access, and share your photos. See how.
                                            > http://windowslive.com/Online/SkyDrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_CS_SD_photos_072009
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > ------------------------------------
                                            >
                                            > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                          • onkelb0b
                                            I like heavy because I am an uncoordinated slob who tends to kick rocks all day, the big leather protects da dogs. My hammer toes present a problem with
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Aug 1, 2009
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                                              I like heavy because I am an uncoordinated slob who tends to kick rocks all day, the big leather protects da dogs. My hammer toes present a problem with blisters, which I solve by my washing feet in the morning and at night and by applying Vaseline to affected areas. The Vaseline reduces the friction enough I do not usually need tape while walking. On the rare occasion that a hot spot forms, I use a "slippery tape," duct or another one with a smooth plastic surface.
                                            • John Ladd
                                              I should add one more advantage I perceive about boots. With boots and trekking poles I find that I have to watch the trail less intently. I glance down at it
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Aug 2, 2009
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                                                I should add one more advantage I perceive about boots.

                                                With boots and trekking poles I find that I have to watch the trail
                                                less intently. I glance down at it every few seconds, but my eyes
                                                tend mostly to be scanning the middle and far distance.

                                                With just shoes on rough ground, I find myself being required to watch
                                                the trail footing more carefully and I think I tend to miss animal
                                                sightings, wildflowers and the wonderful long views.

                                                John Curran Ladd
                                                1616 Castro Street
                                                San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                                                415-648-9279



                                                On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:45 AM, John Ladd<johnladd@...> wrote:
                                                > I'm a boot guy.  ...
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