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fuel use

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  • rgillespie6
    Group, 8 days until i begin my JMT southbound hike. In our group of 3, I am responsible for the fuel/stove. I went out and bought 4 canisters of propane/butane
    Message 1 of 11 , Jul 7, 2009
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      Group,

      8 days until i begin my JMT southbound hike. In our group of 3, I am responsible for the fuel/stove. I went out and bought 4 canisters of propane/butane (i think 227kg each). Will this suffice for our planned trip of 17 days? Thanks for the help and input.

      Regards,

      Bill Gillespie
    • robert shattuck
      JOhn, this isn t really an answer, but it really depends on how much usage you put it through. I think that when I used a canister stove (a GAZ) that I, alone
      Message 2 of 11 , Jul 7, 2009
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        JOhn, this isn't really an answer, but it really depends on how much usage you put it through. I think that when I used a canister stove (a GAZ) that I, alone would go through three of them and that was pretty much just cooking dinners.
        You ought to have an idea of your usage by the time the three of you get to VVR or MTR. Got two canisters of then you ought to make it the rest of the way, but if not, you might want to buy one or two more at one of these spots and don't forget to scour the food drums at VVR or MTR for fuel canisters that others didn't need.

        bob
        http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        From: rgillespie6@...
        Date: Wed, 8 Jul 2009 03:46:44 +0000
        Subject: [John Muir Trail] fuel use


























        Group,



        8 days until i begin my JMT southbound hike. In our group of 3, I am responsible for the fuel/stove. I went out and bought 4 canisters of propane/butane (i think 227kg each). Will this suffice for our planned trip of 17 days? Thanks for the help and input.



        Regards,



        Bill Gillespie






















        _________________________________________________________________
        Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that�s right for you.
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Bob Bankhead
        You don t need to carry everything from the get-go. That s a lot of bulk to haul around. Buy as you go. MSR-type canisters are available at Muir Trail Ranch
        Message 3 of 11 , Jul 7, 2009
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          You don't need to carry everything from the get-go. That's a lot of bulk to haul around. Buy as you go.

          MSR-type canisters are available at Muir Trail Ranch and the stores at Reds Meadow, Tuolumne Meadows, and Yosemite Valley.

          How many canisters you'll need depends entirely on how many people need to cook how many meals. Are you only boiling water or are you actualkly cooking food over the stoves? I always figure 11 one liter boils per large 12 oz canister. Four canisters = 44 liter boils.


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: rgillespie6
          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 8:46 PM
          Subject: [John Muir Trail] fuel use





          Group,

          8 days until i begin my JMT southbound hike. In our group of 3, I am responsible for the fuel/stove. I went out and bought 4 canisters of propane/butane (i think 227kg each). Will this suffice for our planned trip of 17 days? Thanks for the help and input.

          Regards,

          Bill Gillespie





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • John Ladd
          Depends on the stove and how you cook your food. A personal JetBoil will boil 11 liters of water with 100 net weight grams (3.6 oz) of isobutane. Other stoves
          Message 4 of 11 , Jul 7, 2009
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            Depends on the stove and how you cook your food. A personal JetBoil will
            boil 11 liters of water with 100 net weight grams (3.6 oz) of isobutane.

            Other stoves are way less efficient. My MSR pocket rocket, for example, is
            40% less efficient at 6.6 liters per 100 grams. But it is compact, so I
            sometimes use it on shorter trips.

            REI has a nice chart. Their figures assume 70 degree water to start (which
            causes the liter figure to be exaggerated) but assumes that you have the
            stove on full power (which you don't want to do). I've found the REI number
            is conservative in practice with my JetBoil if I use it at well less than
            full power, i.e., I can boil a good deal more than 22 half-liters of water
            per 100gm of fuel and even keep each half-liter at a simmer for a time.

            With my JetBoil I plan on 10 grams of isobutane per person-day on trail --
            cooking 10 oz of hot cereal for breakfast and some varient on 12-14 oz of
            rice-and-beans for dinner. But I'm very careful with my fuel use. I.e., I
            use a cozy to steep my food after it comes to a simmer, allowing me to turn
            the stove off while the food is "cooking". Wash up with cold water, etc.
            4x227 grams of fuel would last almost 91 person-days. I think this is
            actually a fairly conservative rule of thumb for the way I cook (though it
            would be optimistic for someone who cooked differently than I) and I usually
            come back with significant remaining fuel.

            The only time I (almost) ran out of fuel was a trip when I could not buy my
            usual 110 gram canister (the smallest size available in the fuel brand I
            like - Snow Peak) and had to carry a double-size 220 (Tuolumne Mdws store
            only had the larger size in stock). I was so excited about the extra fuel
            that I lost my discipline in using it. I pre-heated my insulated mug and
            washed my pot with warmed water, etc. I ended up using the fuel at almost 3
            times my normal rate. The thing was running out at the end of 7 days when
            it should have lasted me 22. Luckily, I was on a 7-day leg at end my trip
            and the run-out had no serious consequences.

            BTW, a 227kg (kilogram) fuel canister is going to be a bit hard to carry.
            But it would boil a LOT of water. I'm assuming you mean 227g (gram). Joke.

            I think I have the REI chart here if you want me to look up your stove. Or
            look online at REI. Under the specifications page for each stove, they
            generally state the liters of water brought to a boil per 100 grams of
            fuel. For example, for the JetBoil group system, shows 100 gram of fuel
            will boil 11.3 liters of water.

            See http://www.rei.com/product/760605

            while the SnowPeak LightMax will burn only 8.2 litrers

            See http://www.rei.com/product/768603

            **The actual canisters are often twice as heavy as the net weight of the
            fuel inside. So 110 grams of fuel are in a canister with a gross weight of
            220 grams.

            John Curran Ladd
            1616 Castro Street
            San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
            415-648-9279 (voice and fax)


            On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 8:46 PM, rgillespie6 <rgillespie6@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > Group,
            >
            > 8 days until i begin my JMT southbound hike. In our group of 3, I am
            > responsible for the fuel/stove. I went out and bought 4 canisters of
            > propane/butane (i think 227kg each). Will this suffice for our planned trip
            > of 17 days? Thanks for the help and input.
            >
            > Regards,
            >
            > Bill Gillespie
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • John Ladd
            Interesting how wildly different our answers are. I suspect actual usage differs by a factor of at least 4 depending on both stove type and cooking habits.
            Message 5 of 11 , Jul 7, 2009
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              Interesting how wildly different our answers are. I suspect actual usage
              differs by a factor of at least 4 depending on both stove type and cooking
              habits. Time permitting, I suggest that you actually experiment with your
              stove, your cooking habits and a small canister of fuel (typically 100-110
              grams net weight of fuel). Start with water at 35 degrees or so and boil a
              liter at the stove intensity you like to use and then simmer it as long as
              you would usually simmer your food. Repeat as many times as needed to
              exhaust your canister. Then you know how many liters of water your stove
              can boil, with your way of using it.

              I took the time for this because I prefer simmered foods rather than
              freeze-dried where you only bring water to a boil - e.g., I use 5-minute hot
              cereals, not the instant kind. And rather then instant rice, I prefer a
              Trader Joe's pearl couscous mixture which supposedly requires a 10 minute
              simmer. I found with some experimentation with cozys (or by bringing to a
              simmer, letting steep for a time with the gas off, then re-simmering), I
              could actually get quite a lot of cooking out of each 10 grams of fuel.

              John Curran Ladd
              1616 Castro Street
              San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
              415-648-9279 (voice and fax)


              On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 9:34 PM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:

              > Depends on the stove and how you cook your food. A personal JetBoil will
              > boil 11 liters of water with 100 net weight grams (3.6 oz) of isobutane.
              >
              > Other stoves are way less efficient. My MSR pocket rocket, for example, is
              > 40% less efficient at 6.6 liters per 100 grams. But it is compact, so I
              > sometimes use it on shorter trips.
              >
              > REI has a nice chart. Their figures assume 70 degree water to start (which
              > causes the liter figure to be exaggerated) but assumes that you have the
              > stove on full power (which you don't want to do). I've found the REI number
              > is conservative in practice with my JetBoil if I use it at well less than
              > full power, i.e., I can boil a good deal more than 22 half-liters of water
              > per 100gm of fuel and even keep each half-liter at a simmer for a time.
              >
              > With my JetBoil I plan on 10 grams of isobutane per person-day on trail --
              > cooking 10 oz of hot cereal for breakfast and some varient on 12-14 oz of
              > rice-and-beans for dinner. But I'm very careful with my fuel use. I.e., I
              > use a cozy to steep my food after it comes to a simmer, allowing me to turn
              > the stove off while the food is "cooking". Wash up with cold water, etc.
              > 4x227 grams of fuel would last almost 91 person-days. I think this is
              > actually a fairly conservative rule of thumb for the way I cook (though it
              > would be optimistic for someone who cooked differently than I) and I usually
              > come back with significant remaining fuel.
              >
              > The only time I (almost) ran out of fuel was a trip when I could not buy my
              > usual 110 gram canister (the smallest size available in the fuel brand I
              > like - Snow Peak) and had to carry a double-size 220 (Tuolumne Mdws store
              > only had the larger size in stock). I was so excited about the extra fuel
              > that I lost my discipline in using it. I pre-heated my insulated mug and
              > washed my pot with warmed water, etc. I ended up using the fuel at almost 3
              > times my normal rate. The thing was running out at the end of 7 days when
              > it should have lasted me 22. Luckily, I was on a 7-day leg at end my trip
              > and the run-out had no serious consequences.
              >
              > BTW, a 227kg (kilogram) fuel canister is going to be a bit hard to carry.
              > But it would boil a LOT of water. I'm assuming you mean 227g (gram). Joke.
              >
              > I think I have the REI chart here if you want me to look up your stove. Or
              > look online at REI. Under the specifications page for each stove, they
              > generally state the liters of water brought to a boil per 100 grams of
              > fuel. For example, for the JetBoil group system, shows 100 gram of fuel
              > will boil 11.3 liters of water.
              >
              > See http://www.rei.com/product/760605
              >
              > while the SnowPeak LightMax will burn only 8.2 litrers
              >
              > See http://www.rei.com/product/768603
              >
              > **The actual canisters are often twice as heavy as the net weight of the
              > fuel inside. So 110 grams of fuel are in a canister with a gross weight of
              > 220 grams.
              >
              > John Curran Ladd
              > 1616 Castro Street
              > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
              > 415-648-9279 (voice and fax)
              >
              >
              >
              > On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 8:46 PM, rgillespie6 <rgillespie6@...> wrote:
              >
              >>
              >>
              >> Group,
              >>
              >> 8 days until i begin my JMT southbound hike. In our group of 3, I am
              >> responsible for the fuel/stove. I went out and bought 4 canisters of
              >> propane/butane (i think 227kg each). Will this suffice for our planned trip
              >> of 17 days? Thanks for the help and input.
              >>
              >> Regards,
              >>
              >> Bill Gillespie
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • John Ladd
              I ve been thinking about our different experiences in the amount of fuel needed. I wanted to check out a theory that I find intuitively right but which I was
              Message 6 of 11 , Jul 8, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                I've been thinking about our different experiences in the amount of fuel
                needed. I wanted to check out a theory that I find intuitively right but
                which I was never particularly motivated to check out -- whether steeping
                rather than boiling saves significant fuel.

                Two starting facts from apparently authoritative websites:

                "BTU is defined as amount of heat required to raise the temperature of one
                pound of liquid water by one degree" and

                "[It takes] 965 Btu to change one pound of water at 212°F to ... steam"

                So heating a a lb. of water (about 2 cups) from 40 degrees (a likely
                temperature to start with on the JMT) to 191 degrees (boiling point at
                10,000 ft elevation), takes 151 BTU -- but then turning it into steam by
                letting it boil would take an additional 965 BTU.

                No one would choose to fully boil off 2 cups of water in a camp stove, but
                even if one boiled off a TB at a simmer you would use 30 BTUs (965/32). (a
                TB is about 1/16 of a cup or 1/32 of 2 cups)

                So just bringing 2 cups of water to the boiling point uses 151 BTUs but
                letting it simmer long enough to boil off a TB of water uses 181 BTUs or 20%
                more fuel. And that's a pretty short simmer.

                I think the message is:

                Choose foods that can be cooked by bringing them just to the boiling point
                and then let them steep. Just to a boil once and pour it into something well
                insulated like an insulated mug. Or fashion a "cozy" for your stove.

                If (like me) you prefer non freeze-dried and non-instant foods, you can
                bring the food to the simmer point briefly, let it steep awhile, then
                relight the stove to return to the simmer and then turn it off and steep
                some more. Or if something really needs to simmer, try to keep the simmer
                as light as possible and as short as possible.

                I've found that I can cook 5-minute cream of wheat, 5-minute oatmeal,
                10-minute Trader Joe's pearl couscous mix with fairly minimal simmer times
                (1-2 minutes at a very faint simmer) followed by steeping. At higher
                elevations (where the water is less hot), I may have to repeat a
                simmer-and-steep process several times.

                Most freeze-dried foods, instant rice, instant oatmeal, etc. does not
                require any simmer time. (But I think they take up too much space in my
                bearcan).

                I've had less luck with non-instant rice and with pasta -- they seem to
                require an extended simmer.

                Another suggestion: simmering water is exactly the same temperature as water
                at a full boil - 212 F at sea level and something lower at elevation. If it
                were above that temperature, it would be steam, not water. There is
                therefore never a need to get your water up to a full roiling boil before
                you start to let your food steep.

                Also note that you only need 85 degrees Centigrade to kill most bad
                organisms in water. If you are boiling to purify water, you can bring to
                the boiling point and then let it sit. Even at 20k feet, simmering water is
                above 85 C. And at 10k ft, the water boils at enough over 85 that it will
                stay above 85 while sitting in a pot with the stove off.

                John Curran Ladd
                1616 Castro Street
                San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                415-648-9279 (voice and fax)


                On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 8:46 PM, rgillespie6 <rgillespie6@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > Group,
                >
                > 8 days until i begin my JMT southbound hike. In our group of 3, I am
                > responsible for the fuel/stove. I went out and bought 4 canisters of
                > propane/butane (i think 227kg each). Will this suffice for our planned trip
                > of 17 days? Thanks for the help and input.
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                > Bill Gillespie
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Steve Schauer
                As I am in the process of dehydrating some meals right now, I was interested in your discussion about steeping v. simmering. I  put the dehydrated food in
                Message 7 of 11 , Jul 9, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  As I am in the process of dehydrating some meals right now, I was interested in your discussion about steeping v. simmering. I  put the dehydrated food in water, bring to a boil, turn off the stove and steep it until the water is tepid, then fire it up again to eating temp. Works well, and I think it conserves fuel. With some meats I may have to repeat in order to rehydrate. I'm quite sure it saves the pot from scorching as well.Claire

                  --- On Wed, 7/8/09, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:

                  From: John Ladd <johnladd@...>
                  Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] fuel use
                  To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 7:52 AM
























                  I've been thinking about our different experiences in the amount of fuel

                  needed. I wanted to check out a theory that I find intuitively right but

                  which I was never particularly motivated to check out -- whether steeping

                  rather than boiling saves significant fuel.



                  Two starting facts from apparently authoritative websites:



                  "BTU is defined as amount of heat required to raise the temperature of one

                  pound of liquid water by one degree" and



                  "[It takes] 965 Btu to change one pound of water at 212°F to ... steam"



                  So heating a a lb. of water (about 2 cups) from 40 degrees (a likely

                  temperature to start with on the JMT) to 191 degrees (boiling point at

                  10,000 ft elevation), takes 151 BTU -- but then turning it into steam by

                  letting it boil would take an additional 965 BTU.



                  No one would choose to fully boil off 2 cups of water in a camp stove, but

                  even if one boiled off a TB at a simmer you would use 30 BTUs (965/32). (a

                  TB is about 1/16 of a cup or 1/32 of 2 cups)



                  So just bringing 2 cups of water to the boiling point uses 151 BTUs but

                  letting it simmer long enough to boil off a TB of water uses 181 BTUs or 20%

                  more fuel. And that's a pretty short simmer.



                  I think the message is:



                  Choose foods that can be cooked by bringing them just to the boiling point

                  and then let them steep. Just to a boil once and pour it into something well

                  insulated like an insulated mug. Or fashion a "cozy" for your stove.



                  If (like me) you prefer non freeze-dried and non-instant foods, you can

                  bring the food to the simmer point briefly, let it steep awhile, then

                  relight the stove to return to the simmer and then turn it off and steep

                  some more. Or if something really needs to simmer, try to keep the simmer

                  as light as possible and as short as possible.



                  I've found that I can cook 5-minute cream of wheat, 5-minute oatmeal,

                  10-minute Trader Joe's pearl couscous mix with fairly minimal simmer times

                  (1-2 minutes at a very faint simmer) followed by steeping. At higher

                  elevations (where the water is less hot), I may have to repeat a

                  simmer-and-steep process several times.



                  Most freeze-dried foods, instant rice, instant oatmeal, etc. does not

                  require any simmer time. (But I think they take up too much space in my

                  bearcan).



                  I've had less luck with non-instant rice and with pasta -- they seem to

                  require an extended simmer.



                  Another suggestion: simmering water is exactly the same temperature as water

                  at a full boil - 212 F at sea level and something lower at elevation. If it

                  were above that temperature, it would be steam, not water. There is

                  therefore never a need to get your water up to a full roiling boil before

                  you start to let your food steep.



                  Also note that you only need 85 degrees Centigrade to kill most bad

                  organisms in water. If you are boiling to purify water, you can bring to

                  the boiling point and then let it sit. Even at 20k feet, simmering water is

                  above 85 C. And at 10k ft, the water boils at enough over 85 that it will

                  stay above 85 while sitting in a pot with the stove off.



                  John Curran Ladd

                  1616 Castro Street

                  San Francisco, CA 94114-3707

                  415-648-9279 (voice and fax)



                  On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 8:46 PM, rgillespie6 <rgillespie6@ yahoo.com> wrote:



                  >

                  >

                  > Group,

                  >

                  > 8 days until i begin my JMT southbound hike. In our group of 3, I am

                  > responsible for the fuel/stove. I went out and bought 4 canisters of

                  > propane/butane (i think 227kg each). Will this suffice for our planned trip

                  > of 17 days? Thanks for the help and input.

                  >

                  > Regards,

                  >

                  > Bill Gillespie

                  >

                  >

                  >



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

































                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • hmdsierra
                  If I think something will be hard to rehydrate I will put it in a pot with water so it may soak while Ii prepare the fire or stove.
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jul 9, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    If I think something will be hard to rehydrate I will put it in a pot with water so it may soak while Ii prepare the fire or stove.

                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Steve Schauer <clairehiker@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > As I am in the process of dehydrating some meals right now, I was interested in your discussion about steeping v. simmering. I put the dehydrated food in water, bring to a boil, turn off the stove and steep it until the water is tepid, then fire it up again to eating temp. Works well, and I think it conserves fuel. With some meats I may have to repeat in order to rehydrate. I'm quite sure it saves the pot from scorching as well.Claire
                    >
                    > --- On Wed, 7/8/09, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > From: John Ladd <johnladd@...>
                    > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] fuel use
                    > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Wednesday, July 8, 2009, 7:52 AM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I've been thinking about our different experiences in the amount of fuel
                    >
                    > needed. I wanted to check out a theory that I find intuitively right but
                    >
                    > which I was never particularly motivated to check out -- whether steeping
                    >
                    > rather than boiling saves significant fuel.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Two starting facts from apparently authoritative websites:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > "BTU is defined as amount of heat required to raise the temperature of one
                    >
                    > pound of liquid water by one degree" and
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > "[It takes] 965 Btu to change one pound of water at 212°F to ... steam"
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > So heating a a lb. of water (about 2 cups) from 40 degrees (a likely
                    >
                    > temperature to start with on the JMT) to 191 degrees (boiling point at
                    >
                    > 10,000 ft elevation), takes 151 BTU -- but then turning it into steam by
                    >
                    > letting it boil would take an additional 965 BTU.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > No one would choose to fully boil off 2 cups of water in a camp stove, but
                    >
                    > even if one boiled off a TB at a simmer you would use 30 BTUs (965/32). (a
                    >
                    > TB is about 1/16 of a cup or 1/32 of 2 cups)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > So just bringing 2 cups of water to the boiling point uses 151 BTUs but
                    >
                    > letting it simmer long enough to boil off a TB of water uses 181 BTUs or 20%
                    >
                    > more fuel. And that's a pretty short simmer.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I think the message is:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Choose foods that can be cooked by bringing them just to the boiling point
                    >
                    > and then let them steep. Just to a boil once and pour it into something well
                    >
                    > insulated like an insulated mug. Or fashion a "cozy" for your stove.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > If (like me) you prefer non freeze-dried and non-instant foods, you can
                    >
                    > bring the food to the simmer point briefly, let it steep awhile, then
                    >
                    > relight the stove to return to the simmer and then turn it off and steep
                    >
                    > some more. Or if something really needs to simmer, try to keep the simmer
                    >
                    > as light as possible and as short as possible.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I've found that I can cook 5-minute cream of wheat, 5-minute oatmeal,
                    >
                    > 10-minute Trader Joe's pearl couscous mix with fairly minimal simmer times
                    >
                    > (1-2 minutes at a very faint simmer) followed by steeping. At higher
                    >
                    > elevations (where the water is less hot), I may have to repeat a
                    >
                    > simmer-and-steep process several times.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Most freeze-dried foods, instant rice, instant oatmeal, etc. does not
                    >
                    > require any simmer time. (But I think they take up too much space in my
                    >
                    > bearcan).
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > I've had less luck with non-instant rice and with pasta -- they seem to
                    >
                    > require an extended simmer.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Another suggestion: simmering water is exactly the same temperature as water
                    >
                    > at a full boil - 212 F at sea level and something lower at elevation. If it
                    >
                    > were above that temperature, it would be steam, not water. There is
                    >
                    > therefore never a need to get your water up to a full roiling boil before
                    >
                    > you start to let your food steep.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Also note that you only need 85 degrees Centigrade to kill most bad
                    >
                    > organisms in water. If you are boiling to purify water, you can bring to
                    >
                    > the boiling point and then let it sit. Even at 20k feet, simmering water is
                    >
                    > above 85 C. And at 10k ft, the water boils at enough over 85 that it will
                    >
                    > stay above 85 while sitting in a pot with the stove off.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > John Curran Ladd
                    >
                    > 1616 Castro Street
                    >
                    > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                    >
                    > 415-648-9279 (voice and fax)
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 8:46 PM, rgillespie6 <rgillespie6@ yahoo.com> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Group,
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > 8 days until i begin my JMT southbound hike. In our group of 3, I am
                    >
                    > > responsible for the fuel/stove. I went out and bought 4 canisters of
                    >
                    > > propane/butane (i think 227kg each). Will this suffice for our planned trip
                    >
                    > > of 17 days? Thanks for the help and input.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    > > Regards,
                    >
                    > >
                    >
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                  • Rich Ehli
                    Another approach is to begin rehydrating your dinner a few hours before reaching camp by placing the dry contents in a Nalgene bottle and adding water.
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jul 9, 2009
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                      Another approach is to begin rehydrating your dinner a few hours before
                      reaching camp by placing the dry contents in a Nalgene bottle and adding
                      water.

                      hmdsierra wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > If I think something will be hard to rehydrate I will put it in a pot
                      > with water so it may soak while Ii prepare the fire or stove.
                      >
                      > -
                      >
                      > _,_._,___
                    • John Ladd
                      A supplemental thing I ve tried is to have a small (8 oz) water bottle with black plumbers tape wrapped around it. If you leave it in the sun, it warms the
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jul 9, 2009
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                        A supplemental thing I've tried is to have a small (8 oz) water bottle with
                        black plumbers tape wrapped around it. If you leave it in the sun, it warms
                        the water so you are start your boil with less of temp rise reqired. I use
                        a well-cleaned JetDry bottle (its an additive to dishwashers) because it has
                        a flat side that absorbs heat well

                        John Curran Ladd
                        1616 Castro Street
                        San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                        415-648-9279 (voice and fax)


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                      • John Ladd
                        Follow-up on this thread from several weeks ago - on the question of how many fuel canisters to take. Just back from 12-day trip. I used one (previously used)
                        Message 11 of 11 , Aug 3, 2009
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                          Follow-up on this thread from several weeks ago - on the question of how
                          many fuel canisters to take.

                          Just back from 12-day trip. I used one (previously used) canister while
                          near Muir Trail Ranch (my start and end point) and another (brand new
                          small-size isobutane mix) for 18 meals on trail.

                          For those 18 meals. I consumed 82.2 grams of a 110 gram canister of Snow
                          Peak GigaPower isobutane mix in my JetBoil in cooking the 18 meals, or an
                          average of 4.56 grams of fuel per meal. The amount consumed was calculated
                          by weighing the canister on a very accurate postal scale before and after
                          the trip.

                          Half the meals were 8 oz. of water, 2 oz. of butter plus 1.3 cup of 5-minute
                          breakfast cereal (Cream of Wheat or Instant Polenta premixed with almond
                          meal and sugar). Brought to simmer once, allowed to steep in the JetBoil
                          about 5-7 minutes then re-brought to a simmer.

                          The other half were roughly 12-14 oz. of water with various soup-stew
                          additives like Israeli couscous, lentils, split pea soup mix, meat, fat or
                          oil, dried or freeze-dried vegetables. Simmered twice similar to the above.

                          Water to start was typically quite cold and I was using the stove mostly
                          above 10,000 feet since I prefer to camp fairly high. I tend to use the
                          stove at about half or less of maximum power on the assumption that this
                          makes the fuel lasts longer.

                          On one occasion the stove blew out and it leaked gar unproductively for
                          probably 5 minutes before Irealized it.

                          On another occasion, I simmered some extra water in order to steep some sun
                          dried tomatoes.

                          On one occasion (soba noodles for pesto) I left 16 oz. water on simmer for
                          about 5 minutes.

                          No use of fuel for heating water to wash, etc.

                          At that rate, I should be able to get 12 days -- 24 meals - out of my
                          JetBoil and the small canister.

                          People who don't need a steep and re-simmer process (e.g., those who just
                          pour hot water into a freeze-dried bag) could probably get buy on somewhat
                          less fuel.

                          If you own something like a MSR pocket Rocket, you will need more fuel than
                          this. The JetBoil is the most efficient stove analyzed by REI in terms of
                          heating capacity per 100 grams of fuel.

                          John Curran Ladd
                          1616 Castro Street
                          San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                          415-648-9279


                          On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 8:46 PM, rgillespie6 <rgillespie6@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > Group,
                          >
                          > 8 days until i begin my JMT southbound hike. In our group of 3, I am
                          > responsible for the fuel/stove. I went out and bought 4 canisters of
                          > propane/butane (i think 227kg each). Will this suffice for our planned trip
                          > of 17 days? Thanks for the help and input.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > Bill Gillespie
                          >
                          >
                          >


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