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Last minute questions before my trip to JMT

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  • Kevin Balla
    Hi all, Since I ve never camped in bear country, I had two questions about logistics at night: * From what I ve heard, I should be leaving the bear canister
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 29, 2009
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      Hi all,

      Since I've never camped in bear country, I had two questions about logistics at night:

      * From what I've heard, I should be leaving the bear canister ~50 yards from the tent (still within earshot of the tent). Should I be hiding the canister under brush, atop a pile of rocks, or leaving it in the open?
      * I also overheard I should leave the backpacks outside the tent and leave them open. Is this true? If so, should it be right outside the ten? Also, would it be okay if I wrapped it in my poncho to prevent morning dew from making its way inside the pack?I've heard a couple of ways of doing these things but is there a general consensus to follow? Thanks a lot!

      Kevin





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • s_auchterlonie
      Kevin, Good questions....First, do not attempt to hide your bear canister. Bears can rip car doors off their hinges so nothing you do to hide your can in the
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 30, 2009
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        Kevin,
        Good questions....First, do not attempt to hide your bear canister. Bears can rip car doors off their hinges so nothing you do to hide your can in the back country will stop the bear. Instead, leave your can in a flat open area 50 yrds away with a few rocks on top. The rocks serve as noise makers if the bear were to start tampering with the can. Second, your poncho idea is fine. As long as you do a great job of removing ALL scented items from your pack, you shouldn't have any bear problems. Be sure to bring a bear bell just in case. Also, you want to cook 50yrds away from your tent as well. Good luck


        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi all,
        >
        > Since I've never camped in bear country, I had two questions about logistics at night:
        >
        > * From what I've heard, I should be leaving the bear canister ~50 yards from the tent (still within earshot of the tent). Should I be hiding the canister under brush, atop a pile of rocks, or leaving it in the open?
        > * I also overheard I should leave the backpacks outside the tent and leave them open. Is this true? If so, should it be right outside the ten? Also, would it be okay if I wrapped it in my poncho to prevent morning dew from making its way inside the pack?I've heard a couple of ways of doing these things but is there a general consensus to follow? Thanks a lot!
        >
        > Kevin
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Prapanna Smith
        Hey Kevin, basically keep my bear canister in camp, not away from it. You have nothing to fear from a bear unless it gets your food and you try to take it
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 30, 2009
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          Hey Kevin,

          basically keep my bear canister in camp, not away from it. You have
          nothing to fear from a bear unless it gets your food and you try to
          take it back. Most bears are now aware of the canisters and when they
          see one they will go away. During my JMT hike in 2005, in upper Lyell
          Creek, a bear came behind me and hit my canister, which was only about
          10 feet from me, and then just walked away. He was merely checking to
          see it I had left it open. Of course, I got all excited and screamed
          at him and threw a rock or two, but I was frustrated that he did not
          seem to care. He just strolled away at a very leisurely pace and did
          not give me an ounce of consideration.

          When you take breaks on the trail, I suggest you either keep it very,
          very close, or just remove the canister and set it down before you
          leave your pack to get water or do your nature business. One concern
          I have always had is that a bear may tear up my pack only to find the
          canister that he can't get into. It would be a shame to have your
          food but nothing to carry it in!!

          At night I try to hang my empty pack in a bush or on a tree branch,
          more to keep the marmots and other critters from chewing up the belt
          and shoulder straps than to keep it from bears. Or you can keep it in
          the tent with you. If you do leave it out, it is best to keep the
          pockets open so a bear can snoop in it rather than tear it up.

          Prapanna

          On Jun 29, 2009, at 11:12 PM, Kevin Balla wrote:

          >
          >
          > Hi all,
          >
          > Since I've never camped in bear country, I had two questions about
          > logistics at night:
          >
          > * From what I've heard, I should be leaving the bear canister ~50
          > yards from the tent (still within earshot of the tent). Should I be
          > hiding the canister under brush, atop a pile of rocks, or leaving it
          > in the open?
          > * I also overheard I should leave the backpacks outside the tent and
          > leave them open. Is this true? If so, should it be right outside the
          > ten? Also, would it be okay if I wrapped it in my poncho to prevent
          > morning dew from making its way inside the pack?I've heard a couple
          > of ways of doing these things but is there a general consensus to
          > follow? Thanks a lot!
          >
          > Kevin
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Roleigh Martin
          In the 10 years I have hiked in the High Sierras, I ve put all smelly items in the bear cannister and put it about 60-75 yards away (I don t worry about the
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 30, 2009
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            In the 10 years I have hiked in the High Sierras, I've put all smelly items
            in the bear cannister and put it about 60-75 yards away (I don't worry about
            the earshot issue). I put the bear cannister in a situation that won't have
            it rolling downhill into a ravine or off a cliff or in a lake/stream.
            Preferably throw it inside the middle of a bush or beneath a fallen log or
            surrounded by rocks, or in a small depression.

            In those 10 years, no animal has attacked the cannister.

            Bring along the largest aloksak OdorProof (OP) bag and if you can put all
            your smelly stuff inside an OP bag inside the cannister, there is even less
            temptation for animals. 100% for sure have your trash in an OP bag.

            I have always kept my pack inside my tent -- I don't like the idea of
            marmots getting to the pack. I'd think Marmots would be the biggest risk to
            your non-smelly gear.

            I have hiked with others who kept their pack outside the tent and if there
            were clouds in the sky, they covered the pack with a clean, never
            used-garbage bag.

            On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@...> wrote:

            >
            >
            > Hi all,
            >
            > Since I've never camped in bear country, I had two questions about
            > logistics at night:
            >
            > * From what I've heard, I should be leaving the bear canister ~50 yards
            > from the tent (still within earshot of the tent). Should I be hiding the
            > canister under brush, atop a pile of rocks, or leaving it in the open?
            > * I also overheard I should leave the backpacks outside the tent and leave
            > them open. Is this true? If so, should it be right outside the ten? Also,
            > would it be okay if I wrapped it in my poncho to prevent morning dew from
            > making its way inside the pack?I've heard a couple of ways of doing these
            > things but is there a general consensus to follow? Thanks a lot!
            >
            > Kevin
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • dc t
            There may be several schools of thought on this, but bears have very sensitive noses and hiding canisters wont really do you any good. I typically just set
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 30, 2009
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              There may be several schools of thought on this, but bears have very sensitive noses and hiding canisters wont really do you any good. I typically just set them away from the camp. Also, anything used to prepare the food with as well as eating utensils need to be away from your camp as well. As far as the packs go, I always covered them up with a poncho during the night.

              --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@...> wrote:


              From: Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@...>
              Subject: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT
              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 1:12 AM








              Hi all,

              Since I've never camped in bear country, I had two questions about logistics at night:

              * From what I've heard, I should be leaving the bear canister ~50 yards from the tent (still within earshot of the tent). Should I be hiding the canister under brush, atop a pile of rocks, or leaving it in the open?
              * I also overheard I should leave the backpacks outside the tent and leave them open. Is this true? If so, should it be right outside the ten? Also, would it be okay if I wrapped it in my poncho to prevent morning dew from making its way inside the pack?I've heard a couple of ways of doing these things but is there a general consensus to follow? Thanks a lot!

              Kevin

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Roleigh Martin
              Some added thoughts. I stick some sticky, colorful stickers/labels on the bear cannisters so that they re easier to see if they do get moved. I have spray
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 30, 2009
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                Some added thoughts.

                I stick some sticky, colorful stickers/labels on the bear cannisters so that
                they're easier to see if they do get moved. I have spray painted neon
                orange paint on the cannisters in fancy stripes too.

                I also etch, using an etching pen, my permanent email address on the
                cannister. Inside the cannister, I tape a business card to the inside. I
                have heard of lost cannisters (due to rolling into a stream, falling off a
                cliff) being found months later and if an identifying label helps, then
                good!


                On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 8:50 AM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:

                > In the 10 years I have hiked in the High Sierras, I've put all smelly items
                > in the bear cannister and put it about 60-75 yards away (I don't worry about
                > the earshot issue). I put the bear cannister in a situation that won't have
                > it rolling downhill into a ravine or off a cliff or in a lake/stream.
                > Preferably throw it inside the middle of a bush or beneath a fallen log or
                > surrounded by rocks, or in a small depression.
                >
                > In those 10 years, no animal has attacked the cannister.
                >
                > Bring along the largest aloksak OdorProof (OP) bag and if you can put all
                > your smelly stuff inside an OP bag inside the cannister, there is even less
                > temptation for animals. 100% for sure have your trash in an OP bag.
                >
                > I have always kept my pack inside my tent -- I don't like the idea of
                > marmots getting to the pack. I'd think Marmots would be the biggest risk to
                > your non-smelly gear.
                >
                > I have hiked with others who kept their pack outside the tent and if there
                > were clouds in the sky, they covered the pack with a clean, never
                > used-garbage bag.
                >
                > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:12 AM, Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@...>wrote:
                >
                >>
                >>
                >> Hi all,
                >>
                >> Since I've never camped in bear country, I had two questions about
                >> logistics at night:
                >>
                >> * From what I've heard, I should be leaving the bear canister ~50 yards
                >> from the tent (still within earshot of the tent). Should I be hiding the
                >> canister under brush, atop a pile of rocks, or leaving it in the open?
                >> * I also overheard I should leave the backpacks outside the tent and leave
                >> them open. Is this true? If so, should it be right outside the ten? Also,
                >> would it be okay if I wrapped it in my poncho to prevent morning dew from
                >> making its way inside the pack?I've heard a couple of ways of doing these
                >> things but is there a general consensus to follow? Thanks a lot!
                >>
                >> Kevin
                >>
                >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • robert shattuck
                All this yardage, and I ve never taken a tape measure. twenty, seventy, one hundred . . . if you have the option, try putting the canister in a crevice or
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 30, 2009
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                  All this yardage, and I've never taken a tape measure. twenty, seventy, one hundred . . . if you have the option, try putting the canister in a crevice or under something. make it a challenge for the bear to get at. Picture the bear wearing a large pair of oven mitts and trying to extract your slippery canister from a tight fitting spot. If there's no place to stick it, wedge it, then yes, just make sure you don't have it next to a cliff or a stream. Put rocks and pots on it to make noise.
                  Never, ever, leave your canister in your pack, outside and as for your pack, if you do need to leave it outside, open it up. unzip. I always keep mine in the tent. Why give any critter any chance to mess with your pack, not to mention that you don't have to wake up every second, wondering, is something out there, going through my pack?
                  bob
                  http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                  To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                  From: hikingjmt@...
                  Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:12:39 -0700
                  Subject: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT


























                  Hi all,



                  Since I've never camped in bear country, I had two questions about logistics at night:



                  * From what I've heard, I should be leaving the bear canister ~50 yards from the tent (still within earshot of the tent). Should I be hiding the canister under brush, atop a pile of rocks, or leaving it in the open?

                  * I also overheard I should leave the backpacks outside the tent and leave them open. Is this true? If so, should it be right outside the ten? Also, would it be okay if I wrapped it in my poncho to prevent morning dew from making its way inside the pack?I've heard a couple of ways of doing these things but is there a general consensus to follow? Thanks a lot!



                  Kevin



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















                  _________________________________________________________________
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Kevin Balla
                  Thanks! All this good input brings up another good question: what should I do with the used cookware (pot, bowls, and utensils) during the night? Should I
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 30, 2009
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                    Thanks! All this good input brings up another good question: what should I do with the used cookware (pot, bowls, and utensils) during the night? Should I leave those nearby but outside the canister at night? Should I place it on top of the canister to act as an alarm system? I will have a large pot with two bowls and four utensils inside it. Or should I pace them inside the canister? Or, should I place them outside away from the canister?

                    I can make a case for all three approaches, but what do you all typically do?

                    Kevin

                    robert shattuck wrote:
                    > All this yardage, and I've never taken a tape measure. twenty, seventy, one hundred . . . if you have the option, try putting the canister in a crevice or under something. make it a challenge for the bear to get at. Picture the bear wearing a large pair of oven mitts and trying to extract your slippery canister from a tight fitting spot. If there's no place to stick it, wedge it, then yes, just make sure you don't have it next to a cliff or a stream. Put rocks and pots on it to make noise.
                    > Never, ever, leave your canister in your pack, outside and as for your pack, if you do need to leave it outside, open it up. unzip. I always keep mine in the tent. Why give any critter any chance to mess with your pack, not to mention that you don't have to wake up every second, wondering, is something out there, going through my pack?
                    > bob
                    > http://www.summitpo st.org/plans/ view_activity. php?post_ id=6480
                    > To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com
                    > From: hikingjmt@yahoo. com
                    > Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:12:39 -0700
                    > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT
                    > Hi all,
                    > Since I've never camped in bear country, I had two questions about logistics at night:
                    > * From what I've heard, I should be leaving the bear canister ~50 yards from the tent (still within earshot of the tent). Should I be hiding the canister under brush, atop a pile of rocks, or leaving it in the open?
                    > * I also overheard I should leave the backpacks outside the tent and leave them open. Is this true? If so, should it be right outside the ten? Also, would it be okay if I wrapped it in my poncho to prevent morning dew from making its way inside the pack?I've heard a couple of ways of doing these things but is there a general consensus to follow? Thanks a lot!
                    > Kevin
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                    > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®.
                    > http://windowslive. com/Tutorial/ Hotmail/QuickAdd ?ocid=TXT_ TAGLM_WL_ HM_Tutorial_ QuickAdd_ 062009
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • robert shattuck
                    Kevin, I don t usually do anything. Ha. I wash everything with hot or cold SOAP-LESS water. I toss them on a rock. They ll be there in the morning. As for the
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 30, 2009
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                      Kevin,
                      I don't usually do anything. Ha. I wash everything with hot or cold SOAP-LESS water. I toss them on a rock. They'll be there in the morning. As for the pot, yes, it makes for a nice alarm, sitting on top or near your canister.

                      bob
                      http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                      > Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:43:25 -0700
                      > From: hikingjmt@...
                      > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT
                      > To: bobolonius@...
                      > CC: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >
                      > Thanks! All this good input brings up another good question: what should I do with the used cookware (pot, bowls, and utensils) during the night? Should I leave those nearby but outside the canister at night? Should I place it on top of the canister to act as an alarm system? I will have a large pot with two bowls and four utensils inside it. Or should I pace them inside the canister? Or, should I place them outside away from the canister?
                      >
                      > I can make a case for all three approaches, but what do you all typically do?
                      >
                      > Kevin
                      >
                      > robert shattuck wrote:
                      >> All this yardage, and I've never taken a tape measure. twenty, seventy, one hundred . . . if you have the option, try putting the canister in a crevice or under something. make it a challenge for the bear to get at. Picture the bear wearing a large pair of oven mitts and trying to extract your slippery canister from a tight fitting spot. If there's no place to stick it, wedge it, then yes, just make sure you don't have it next to a cliff or a stream. Put rocks and pots on it to make noise.
                      >> Never, ever, leave your canister in your pack, outside and as for your pack, if you do need to leave it outside, open it up. unzip. I always keep mine in the tent. Why give any critter any chance to mess with your pack, not to mention that you don't have to wake up every second, wondering, is something out there, going through my pack?
                      >> bob
                      >> http://www.summitpo st.org/plans/ view_activity. php?post_ id=6480
                      >> To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com
                      >> From: hikingjmt@yahoo. com
                      >> Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:12:39 -0700
                      >> Subject: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT
                      >> Hi all,
                      >> Since I've never camped in bear country, I had two questions about logistics at night:
                      >> * From what I've heard, I should be leaving the bear canister ~50 yards from the tent (still within earshot of the tent). Should I be hiding the canister under brush, atop a pile of rocks, or leaving it in the open?
                      >> * I also overheard I should leave the backpacks outside the tent and leave them open. Is this true? If so, should it be right outside the ten? Also, would it be okay if I wrapped it in my poncho to prevent morning dew from making its way inside the pack?I've heard a couple of ways of doing these things but is there a general consensus to follow? Thanks a lot!
                      >> Kevin
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                      >> Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail�.
                      >> http://windowslive. com/Tutorial/ Hotmail/QuickAdd ?ocid=TXT_ TAGLM_WL_ HM_Tutorial_ QuickAdd_ 062009
                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >

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                    • dc t
                      I would place your cooking utensils on top of your bear canisters or near them. A rule of that I went by is that if it came in contact with food or had perfume
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 30, 2009
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                        I would place your cooking utensils on top of your bear canisters or near them. A rule of that I went by is that if it came in contact with food or had perfume of any sort, like bug spray, I would cache it with the bear canisters. The only problem I have ever had was a deer nosing through the pot I cooked in. If you call it a problem.

                        --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@...> wrote:


                        From: Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@...>
                        Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT
                        To: "bobolonius@..." <bobolonius@...>
                        Cc: "johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com" <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com>
                        Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 12:43 PM









                        Thanks! All this good input brings up another good question: what should I do with the used cookware (pot, bowls, and utensils) during the night? Should I leave those nearby but outside the canister at night? Should I place it on top of the canister to act as an alarm system? I will have a large pot with two bowls and four utensils inside it. Or should I pace them inside the canister? Or, should I place them outside away from the canister?

                        I can make a case for all three approaches, but what do you all typically do?

                        Kevin

                        robert shattuck wrote:
                        > All this yardage, and I've never taken a tape measure. twenty, seventy, one hundred . . . if you have the option, try putting the canister in a crevice or under something. make it a challenge for the bear to get at. Picture the bear wearing a large pair of oven mitts and trying to extract your slippery canister from a tight fitting spot. If there's no place to stick it, wedge it, then yes, just make sure you don't have it next to a cliff or a stream. Put rocks and pots on it to make noise.
                        > Never, ever, leave your canister in your pack, outside and as for your pack, if you do need to leave it outside, open it up. unzip. I always keep mine in the tent. Why give any critter any chance to mess with your pack, not to mention that you don't have to wake up every second, wondering, is something out there, going through my pack?
                        > bob
                        > http://www.summitpo st.org/plans/ view_activity. php?post_ id=6480
                        > To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com
                        > From: hikingjmt@yahoo. com
                        > Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 23:12:39 -0700
                        > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT
                        > Hi all,
                        > Since I've never camped in bear country, I had two questions about logistics at night:
                        > * From what I've heard, I should be leaving the bear canister ~50 yards from the tent (still within earshot of the tent). Should I be hiding the canister under brush, atop a pile of rocks, or leaving it in the open?
                        > * I also overheard I should leave the backpacks outside the tent and leave them open. Is this true? If so, should it be right outside the ten? Also, would it be okay if I wrapped it in my poncho to prevent morning dew from making its way inside the pack?I've heard a couple of ways of doing these things but is there a general consensus to follow? Thanks a lot!
                        > Kevin
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                        > Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®.
                        > http://windowslive. com/Tutorial/ Hotmail/QuickAdd ?ocid=TXT_ TAGLM_WL_ HM_Tutorial_ QuickAdd_ 062009
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >



















                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • hmdsierra
                        I know bears have good noses but sometimes I wonder. I cookwith bacon grease and don t wash the frypan until I m ready to move along unless I cook fish and
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 30, 2009
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                          I know bears have good noses but sometimes I wonder. I cookwith bacon grease and don't wash the frypan until I'm ready to move along unless I cook fish and get it real dirty. If there is a nail in a tree I hang it there,if not then invert it on a log or rock. I have never had it licked clean, even at Vidette when i had to chase bears away. At time dinner is so late that I leave the dishes till morning to wash, aways from camp. They have never been cleaned either.

                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, dc t <dc_t63@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > There may be several schools of thought on this, but bears have very sensitive noses and hiding canisters wont really do you any good. I typically just set them away from the camp. Also, anything used to prepare the food with as well as eating utensils need to be away from your camp as well. As far as the packs go, I always covered them up with a poncho during the night.
                          >
                          > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > From: Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@...>
                          > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT
                          > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 1:12 AM
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Hi all,
                          >
                          > Since I've never camped in bear country, I had two questions about logistics at night:
                          >
                          > * From what I've heard, I should be leaving the bear canister ~50 yards from the tent (still within earshot of the tent). Should I be hiding the canister under brush, atop a pile of rocks, or leaving it in the open?
                          > * I also overheard I should leave the backpacks outside the tent and leave them open. Is this true? If so, should it be right outside the ten? Also, would it be okay if I wrapped it in my poncho to prevent morning dew from making its way inside the pack?I've heard a couple of ways of doing these things but is there a general consensus to follow? Thanks a lot!
                          >
                          > Kevin
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • Kevin Balla
                          Thanks for that, I thought so. Well I head out tomorrow (so excited about it!) and have one last question, this time about the clothes I packed. For now, I m
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 1, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thanks for that, I thought so. Well I head out tomorrow (so excited about it!) and have one last question, this time about the clothes I packed. For now, I'm taking some light clothes but I'm not sure how cold it gets up at Donahue Pass at night (11,500 ft, the highest point I'll be reaching). To keep warm I'm taking a thermal top/bottom and a long sleeve shirt, but should I be taking a fleece with me too?

                            Here's what I'm packing for the 7day trip:
                            -4 underwear (includes 1 thermal)
                            -2 wool socks
                            -1 hiking pant
                            -2 long sleeve shirts (includes 1 thermal)
                            -2 short sleeve shirts

                            Does this sound too light? Lastly, is there a reliable forecast website for the northern part of the JMT (Postpile to Happy Isles)?

                            I really appreciate everyone's input up till now, I'll be sure to write back about my experience up there!

                            Kevin




                            ________________________________
                            From: hmdsierra <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:37:54 PM
                            Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT





                            I know bears have good noses but sometimes I wonder. I cookwith bacon grease and don't wash the frypan until I'm ready to move along unless I cook fish and get it real dirty. If there is a nail in a tree I hang it there,if not then invert it on a log or rock. I have never had it licked clean, even at Vidette when i had to chase bears away. At time dinner is so late that I leave the dishes till morning to wash, aways from camp. They have never been cleaned either.

                            --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, dc t <dc_t63@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > There may be several schools of thought on this, but bears have very sensitive noses and hiding canisters wont really do you any good. I typically just set them away from the camp. Also, anything used to prepare the food with as well as eating utensils need to be away from your camp as well. As far as the packs go, I always covered them up with a poncho during the night.
                            >
                            > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@. ..> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            > From: Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@. ..>
                            > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT
                            > To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com
                            > Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 1:12 AM
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Hi all,
                            >
                            > Since I've never camped in bear country, I had two questions about logistics at night:
                            >
                            > * From what I've heard, I should be leaving the bear canister ~50 yards from the tent (still within earshot of the tent). Should I be hiding the canister under brush, atop a pile of rocks, or leaving it in the open?
                            > * I also overheard I should leave the backpacks outside the tent and leave them open. Is this true? If so, should it be right outside the ten? Also, would it be okay if I wrapped it in my poncho to prevent morning dew from making its way inside the pack?I've heard a couple of ways of doing these things but is there a general consensus to follow? Thanks a lot!
                            >
                            > Kevin
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >







                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Scott
                            You should be fine with your thermals rather than fleece. I skip the thermals and go with lightweight fleece for around camp and cold nights. We have had a
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 1, 2009
                            • 0 Attachment
                              You should be fine with your thermals rather than fleece. I skip the thermals and go with lightweight fleece for around camp and cold nights. We have had a lot of thunderstorm activity this past month and you should plan on rain protection, especially with cotton clothing. I always ask other hikers about bear activity so I'll know how careful to be. I do not cook with grease and I don't fish. In 30 days on the JMT last summer, our group had no bear encounters. Don't get me wrong, you need to be careful, but also be thoughtful. Have fun, wish I were going again.
                            • Roleigh Martin
                              The weather varies from about 28 F in middle of night to 95 F at hottest part of the day. I bring two ultralight down items (a sleeveless vest by western
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 1, 2009
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                                The weather varies from about 28 F in middle of night to 95 F at hottest
                                part of the day. I bring two ultralight down items (a sleeveless vest by
                                western mountaineering, and a short-sleeve vest by montbell--the two items
                                XL weight totaled, together, 13 oz), plus an ultralight breathable w/p rain
                                jacket, together these items enable me to handle rain or cold in a
                                layered-system. For night, I do have a 4 oz XL ultralight merino wool long
                                johns from backpackinglight.com. Sometimes I hike with an extra Tshirt for
                                sleep (an ultralight 4 oz XL merino wool Tshirt from BPL too) but I shipped
                                it back home at MTR as I was too tired of it by then and went with only the
                                shirt I wear on my back from then on.

                                On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:26 PM, Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@...> wrote:

                                > Thanks for that, I thought so. Well I head out tomorrow (so excited about
                                > it!) and have one last question, this time about the clothes I packed. For
                                > now, I'm taking some light clothes but I'm not sure how cold it gets up at
                                > Donahue Pass at night (11,500 ft, the highest point I'll be reaching). To
                                > keep warm I'm taking a thermal top/bottom and a long sleeve shirt, but
                                > should I be taking a fleece with me too?
                                >
                                > Here's what I'm packing for the 7day trip:
                                > -4 underwear (includes 1 thermal)
                                > -2 wool socks
                                > -1 hiking pant
                                > -2 long sleeve shirts (includes 1 thermal)
                                > -2 short sleeve shirts
                                >
                                > Does this sound too light? Lastly, is there a reliable forecast website
                                > for the northern part of the JMT (Postpile to Happy Isles)?
                                >
                                > I really appreciate everyone's input up till now, I'll be sure to write
                                > back about my experience up there!
                                >
                                > Kevin
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: hmdsierra <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                                > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:37:54 PM
                                > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I know bears have good noses but sometimes I wonder. I cookwith bacon
                                > grease and don't wash the frypan until I'm ready to move along unless I cook
                                > fish and get it real dirty. If there is a nail in a tree I hang it there,if
                                > not then invert it on a log or rock. I have never had it licked clean, even
                                > at Vidette when i had to chase bears away. At time dinner is so late that I
                                > leave the dishes till morning to wash, aways from camp. They have never
                                > been cleaned either.
                                >
                                > --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, dc t <dc_t63@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > There may be several schools of thought on this, but bears have very
                                > sensitive noses and hiding canisters wont really do you any good. I
                                > typically just set them away from the camp. Also, anything used to prepare
                                > the food with as well as eating utensils need to be away from your camp as
                                > well. As far as the packs go, I always covered them up with a poncho during
                                > the night.
                                > >
                                > > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@. ..> wrote:
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > From: Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@. ..>
                                > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT
                                > > To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com
                                > > Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 1:12 AM
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > Hi all,
                                > >
                                > > Since I've never camped in bear country, I had two questions about
                                > logistics at night:
                                > >
                                > > * From what I've heard, I should be leaving the bear canister ~50 yards
                                > from the tent (still within earshot of the tent). Should I be hiding the
                                > canister under brush, atop a pile of rocks, or leaving it in the open?
                                > > * I also overheard I should leave the backpacks outside the tent and
                                > leave them open. Is this true? If so, should it be right outside the ten?
                                > Also, would it be okay if I wrapped it in my poncho to prevent morning dew
                                > from making its way inside the pack?I've heard a couple of ways of doing
                                > these things but is there a general consensus to follow? Thanks a lot!
                                > >
                                > > Kevin
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • song95139@sbcglobal.net
                                Hi Kevin, The weather can can be have a wide range in the High Sierra.  Temperature can drop down to 30 degrees at night and rise to 90 degrees in the day. 
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 1, 2009
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hi Kevin,

                                  The weather can can be have a wide range in the High Sierra.  Temperature can drop down to 30 degrees at night and rise to 90 degrees in the day.  It can also be windy if you camp at higher elevation and thus making it feel much colder.  You can encounter thunder storms. 

                                  Missing on your list I notice is the rain gear. Raingear can be doubled as wind breaker if needed.  Also a pair of gloves.  It kept my fingers warm at night. 

                                  Here is what I brought on my trip last year.

                                  1 pair underwear - wash it while at camp or resorts.
                                  2 pair wool socks - 1 for sleeping and 1 for hiking.  alternate and dry the wet one on the backpack or overnight.
                                  1 set of thermal top and pants - only for sleeping.
                                  1 long sleeve shirt for sleeping
                                  1 fleece shirt and pants for warmed and sleeping when cold.
                                  1 hiking shirt
                                  1 Polyester T shirt
                                  1 pair cotton glove
                                  1 beanie - keeping my head warm
                                  1 wide brim hat
                                  1 rain gear top only - ripstop type

                                  I was warm sleeping in a 40 degree sleeping bag under a rain fly.

                                  Keep you clothing dry.  I use a zip lock bag for all my clothing and sleeping bag for just in case I slip while crossing streams. 

                                  Enjoy yourself and I will join you in three weeks.

                                  Sim







                                  --- On Wed, 7/1/09, Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@...> wrote:

                                  From: Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@...>
                                  Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT
                                  To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                  Date: Wednesday, July 1, 2009, 10:26 AM

















                                  Thanks for that, I thought so. Well I head out tomorrow (so excited about it!) and have one last question, this time about the clothes I packed. For now, I'm taking some light clothes but I'm not sure how cold it gets up at Donahue Pass at night (11,500 ft, the highest point I'll be reaching). To keep warm I'm taking a thermal top/bottom and a long sleeve shirt, but should I be taking a fleece with me too?



                                  Here's what I'm packing for the 7day trip:

                                  -4 underwear (includes 1 thermal)

                                  -2 wool socks

                                  -1 hiking pant

                                  -2 long sleeve shirts (includes 1 thermal)

                                  -2 short sleeve shirts



                                  Does this sound too light? Lastly, is there a reliable forecast website for the northern part of the JMT (Postpile to Happy Isles)?



                                  I really appreciate everyone's input up till now, I'll be sure to write back about my experience up there!



                                  Kevin



                                  ____________ _________ _________ __

                                  From: hmdsierra <no_reply@yahoogroup s.com>

                                  To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com

                                  Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 2:37:54 PM

                                  Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT



                                  I know bears have good noses but sometimes I wonder. I cookwith bacon grease and don't wash the frypan until I'm ready to move along unless I cook fish and get it real dirty. If there is a nail in a tree I hang it there,if not then invert it on a log or rock. I have never had it licked clean, even at Vidette when i had to chase bears away. At time dinner is so late that I leave the dishes till morning to wash, aways from camp. They have never been cleaned either.



                                  --- In johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com, dc t <dc_t63@...> wrote:

                                  >

                                  > There may be several schools of thought on this, but bears have very sensitive noses and hiding canisters wont really do you any good. I typically just set them away from the camp. Also, anything used to prepare the food with as well as eating utensils need to be away from your camp as well. As far as the packs go, I always covered them up with a poncho during the night.

                                  >

                                  > --- On Tue, 6/30/09, Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@. ..> wrote:

                                  >

                                  >

                                  > From: Kevin Balla <hikingjmt@. ..>

                                  > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Last minute questions before my trip to JMT

                                  > To: johnmuirtrail@ yahoogroups. com

                                  > Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 1:12 AM

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  > Hi all,

                                  >

                                  > Since I've never camped in bear country, I had two questions about logistics at night:

                                  >

                                  > * From what I've heard, I should be leaving the bear canister ~50 yards from the tent (still within earshot of the tent). Should I be hiding the canister under brush, atop a pile of rocks, or leaving it in the open?

                                  > * I also overheard I should leave the backpacks outside the tent and leave them open. Is this true? If so, should it be right outside the ten? Also, would it be okay if I wrapped it in my poncho to prevent morning dew from making its way inside the pack?I've heard a couple of ways of doing these things but is there a general consensus to follow? Thanks a lot!

                                  >

                                  > Kevin

                                  >

                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  >

                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                  >



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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • John Ladd
                                  I second the suggestion about raingear (not a poncho). It is surprisingly warm when combined with just about anything underneath. Also surprisingly warm warn
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jul 1, 2009
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I second the suggestion about raingear (not a poncho). It is surprisingly
                                    warm when combined with just about anything underneath. Also surprisingly
                                    warm warn inside a sleeping bag (though a little sweaty -- you wouldn';t
                                    want to wear it unless you were cold).

                                    If you get too cold, just get into your sleeping bag early and when you get
                                    up in the morning, jump around a lot. If your are cold inside your bag,
                                    exaggerate your natural shivering response. It really will help you warm up
                                    fast.

                                    For sure, bring things to keep your hands warm and dry. It is really hard
                                    to break camp when your fingers are too cold to stuff your bag, fasten your
                                    straps, tie your laces etc. Gloves also serve as hot pads for cooking and
                                    can protect your hands if you get a cut and the band-aids keep coming off.

                                    John Curran Ladd
                                    1616 Castro Street
                                    San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                                    415-648-9279 (voice and fax)


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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