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Help Lightening Up

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  • Jason Luban
    I ve heard it said that one can learn a lot about a person by checking out what s in their pack, so it s no joke when I write that I need help lightening up.
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
    I've heard it said that one can learn a lot about a person by checking out what's in their pack, so it's no joke when I write that I need help lightening up.  Attached is my current proposed gear list for a Sept. 1-20 trip. While I could handle the weight, I'd love to lighten it up by as much as is practical, so I'm posting this here with the hopes that y'all can pick it apart. Some caveats:

    -Note on the attached PDF that, on the far left, some items are not checked, meaning I do not currently intend to take those.
    -I weighed nearly all items myself (an eye-opener, given the sometimes significant differential between an item's stated and actual weight).
    -Given that I'm doing the trail in September, I've been repeatedly told to bring warm stuff. I'm not sure about quite how warm, so when it comes to clothing, I am very open to suggestions given the gear I have (listed w/and w/o checkmarks).  Not sure if I should go lighter with a light down jacket and fleece hoodie, or ditch those in favor of the heavier Windstopper Tech jacket? 
    -I'm planning to carry less food if possible by resupplying at Tuolumne, Red's, and MTR. Still trying to figure out if there's a way to resupply between Red's and Whitney? 
    -I am happy with my sleeping system--I'm not cool enough yet to be a tarp or cowboy sleeper.
    -The gadgets (Delorme) is my marriage insurance, so I can't ditch that.  The iPhone is for pics, and has Wenk's book, as well as backups of maps and other trail info, and books in the Kindle app.  Oh, and it pairs with the Delorme.

    I think that's it.  Thanks in advance for any feedback!  

    Best,

    Jason
  • ravi_jmt2013
    In my opinion, the quickest way to cut weight on your list is to carry one liter of water, on average, versus the two liters listed. That s 2.2 pounds in
    Message 2 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
      In my opinion, the quickest way to cut weight on your list is to carry one liter of water, on average, versus the two liters listed.  That's 2.2 pounds in weight savings.  There are only a few spots on the JMT where carrying more water is necessary.  I made the mistake of carrying too much water early on the hike but after a few days I learned to carry just a bit over one liter in most places. 
    • Ray Rippel
      I m guilty of the same thing, Ravi. Great point. I think we often fill up almost automatically...like we re doing something wrong if we leave the campsite in
      Message 3 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
        I'm guilty of the same thing, Ravi. Great point. I think we often fill up almost automatically...like we're doing something wrong if we leave the campsite in the morning without everything topped off.

      • dbindsch@rocketmail.com
        Jason: I think you ve done a pretty good job. To go much lighter you d most likely have to take a hard look at the pack and the tent. Note that there are fully
        Message 4 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
          Jason:

          I think you've done a pretty good job. To go much lighter you'd most likely have to take a hard look at the pack and the tent. Note that there are fully enclosed shelters that go under two lb. Henry Shire's tarptents are fine products (I own a TT Rainbow and have used it under extreme T-storm conditions in the Sierra. It held up fantastically). There are other similar products that folks have had great success with.

          There are a some smaller-weight items you might look at:

          Clothing: Down beats fleece in the Sierra, and your rain jacket can double as a windbreaker. You could lose the fleece hoody and the tech jacket at only the expense of having those as extra layers (if you could even get them to fit over one another...). Do you need a "spare" shirt (Icebreaker merino)? That would trim 12.6+21+5=38.6 oz - 2 and 1/4 lb.

          Here's my gear list (this is after a ~2.5 year transition from a base weight above 30 lb to where I am now, so think of it as one point on a continuum):
          http://lighterpack.com/r/adpg0e
          I'm also going in Sept - leaving 9/4 from Mono Meadows. Am looking to resupply at TM, Reds, MTR, and Vidette Meadows or Charlotte Lake via pack outfitter. My hiking partner and I are looking for others interested in splitting the resupply cost there. Let me know if you are interested - dbindsch at verizon dot net
        • dj_ayers
          Hi Jason, Really good list, lots of lightweight stuff. I have a few comments that are hopefully helpful and not just nit-picky. I count 3 jackets totaling 43
          Message 5 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
            Hi Jason,

            Really good list, lots of lightweight stuff.  I have a few comments that are hopefully helpful and not just nit-picky.
            • I count 3 jackets totaling 43 oz plus a long underwear top, a long-sleeve wool shirt, and a spare wool shirt.  6 layers for warmth seems like 2 too many to me, even for Sept.  If it's that cold, just climb in the bag!
            • A footprint cut from Polycryo weighs about half of the Big Agnes version (~2.5 vs. 5).
            • I'm not clear why you would need both a Scotchbrite pad and a bathbrush.  I suggest taking just the Scotchbrite at most.  A 2"x3" cut piece of Scotchbrite only weighs 0.2 oz.
            • My heavy duty foil windblocker + paper clip weighs 0.2 oz.  I'm wondering why your's is 1.0.
            • 2 electronic mini-Bics weigh 1.2 oz (vs. 2.0).  2 of the non-electronic thumb scraper version weigh 0.8oz.
            • The socks + gaiter bundle seems heavy at 6.8 oz.  Can you use low cut socks to save weight since you have gaiters over top anyway?
            • A few strings of dental floss instead of the whole pack weighs maybe 0.1 (vs. 1.0).
            • You have 4 water containers.  Consider if you can get along with 3.  (I fully understand if one is a solar shower  .)
            • You might send the Ursack in your box to MTR as you probably won't need it before that if re-supplying at both TM and Reds.
            • Why spare batteries if you have a solar charger?  Can you ship them to MTR instead of carrying them the whole way?
            • My medium Nike dri-fit shorts weigh 3.4 oz (you show 5 oz for the 9"ers).
            Dave
          • Jason Luban
            Thanks all for the help thus far! Dave, specifically: -I ll definitely cut down on the clothing layers. Note that I m not bringing ALL of that stuff; just what
            Message 6 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
              Thanks all for the help thus far!

              Dave, specifically:  

              -I'll definitely cut down on the clothing layers. Note that I'm not bringing ALL of that stuff; just what has a checkbox next to it. Layer-wise, would you recommend simply a wool layer, fleece, light down, and light rain jacket total?
              -As far as weight of the windblocker, mini-Bics, and dental floss, those were a few conservative guesstimates on my part and a few things I actually hadn't weighed.  The socks are all low-cut, and I weighed them when they may have been a bit wet. Will check that again (though the Darn Tough socks are a bit weighty).
              -The Ursack and spare batteries (for headlamp) would be post-MTR
              -Not sure why my Dri-fits weigh 1.5 oz more than yours.  I'll check that as well.


              On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 1:17 PM, djayers@... [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
               

              Hi Jason,


              Really good list, lots of lightweight stuff.  I have a few comments that are hopefully helpful and not just nit-picky.
              • I count 3 jackets totaling 43 oz plus a long underwear top, a long-sleeve wool shirt, and a spare wool shirt.  6 layers for warmth seems like 2 too many to me, even for Sept.  If it's that cold, just climb in the bag!
              • A footprint cut from Polycryo weighs about half of the Big Agnes version (~2.5 vs. 5).
              • I'm not clear why you would need both a Scotchbrite pad and a bathbrush.  I suggest taking just the Scotchbrite at most.  A 2"x3" cut piece of Scotchbrite only weighs 0.2 oz.
              • My heavy duty foil windblocker + paper clip weighs 0.2 oz.  I'm wondering why your's is 1.0.
              • 2 electronic mini-Bics weigh 1.2 oz (vs. 2.0).  2 of the non-electronic thumb scraper version weigh 0.8oz.
              • The socks + gaiter bundle seems heavy at 6.8 oz.  Can you use low cut socks to save weight since you have gaiters over top anyway?
              • A few strings of dental floss instead of the whole pack weighs maybe 0.1 (vs. 1.0).
              • You have 4 water containers.  Consider if you can get along with 3.  (I fully understand if one is a solar shower  .)
              • You might send the Ursack in your box to MTR as you probably won't need it before that if re-supplying at both TM and Reds.
              • Why spare batteries if you have a solar charger?  Can you ship them to MTR instead of carrying them the whole way?
              • My medium Nike dri-fit shorts weigh 3.4 oz (you show 5 oz for the 9"ers).
              Dave


            • herbstroh
              Jason-- Getting a lighter is a process. The factors that go into that process are experience hiking, budget, and style of camping. Here are a few ideas you can
              Message 7 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                Jason--

                Getting a lighter is a process. The factors that go into that process are experience hiking, budget, and style of camping. Here are a few ideas you can kick around to lighten the load over time:

                Pack--I really like the Catalyst, but you can get lighter with a Six Moons pack (about 2 pounds) or a Zpacks (less than a pound).

                Shelter--The Big Agnes is a great product, but a tarp type shelter will come in at less than a pound. Having multiple shelters at my disposal, I select the one I think best suits the particular trip. A tarp shelter should be ok for the JMT even in September.

                Clothing--do you need a down jacket and rain jacket and wind jacket? The rule of thumb is if you can't wear all your cold weather gear at one time you have too much. Also, consider skipping the spare shirt and spare pants. I take 1 or maybe 2 pairs of socks and 1 underwear as extra. When it is cold, virtually everything else can go on me. If I am still cold, it must be time to go to bed.

                Cooking--not too much to shave off here unless you want to go stove-less. I tried stove-less on my last trip and was reasonably satisfied. Note that all freeze dried foods can be re-hydrated with cold water, it just takes longer. I would stop about an hour before the end of the day and hydrate my food. It was great to get to camp and be able to open the bag and eat immediately.

                Hygiene--a few ounces could be cut here. Leave the soap at home, keeping it out of the environment. Skip the bath brush and use a bandana to scrub--then wring it out and use it as your camp towel.

                Gadgets--can you get buy with just the SB Battery and skip the solar panel? You should be able to recharge in VVR.

                Food--is 2 pounds a day what you have consumed in the past or a guess what you need? For me, 1.5 pounds per day is enough. Note that most people are less hungry when they start and more hungry a week into their trip. Go to 1.5 pounds for the first half of your trip and up it to 2 for your resupply.

                Water--I agree with the prior comment that 1 liter is adequate for most sections.
              • Bobbie Surber
                I noticed the list includes a Bear Vault 450. This is what I own but have ben warned I need to go up to the 700 size. Any thoughts, suggestions? Leave from
                Message 8 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                  I noticed the list includes a Bear Vault 450. This is what I own but have ben warned I need to go up to the 700 size. Any thoughts, suggestions? Leave from Devil Post Pile resupply at MTR and Independence.
                   
                  Thanks!
                  Bobbie
                   

                  Thank you,
                   
                  Bobbie
                  Bobbie Surber - LEED AP
                  928 203-6124
                   


                  On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 11:59 AM, ravi@... [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                   

                  In my opinion, the quickest way to cut weight on your list is to carry one liter of water, on average, versus the two liters listed.  That's 2.2 pounds in weight savings.  There are only a few spots on the JMT where carrying more water is necessary.  I made the mistake of carrying too much water early on the hike but after a few days I learned to carry just a bit over one liter in most places. 


                • longritchie
                  Too much clothing. Too much everything. Don t worry about it, have a good time.
                  Message 9 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                    Too much clothing.

                    Too much everything.

                    Don't worry about it, have a good time.
                  • straw_marmot
                    herbstroh said: Note that most people are less hungry when they start and more hungry a week into their trip. Go to 1.5 pounds for the first half of your trip
                    Message 10 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                      herbstroh said:

                      "Note that most people are less hungry when they start and more hungry a week into their trip. Go to 1.5 pounds for the first half of your trip and up it to 2 for your resupply."

                      I think this is a mistake.   Most people feel less hungry in the first part of the trip,  but the conclusion from this should not be "I can safely take less food and eat less", it should be to realize that "I can't trust my appetite to tell me how much energy my body needs".   It's important to provide fuel for most of the calories that you're burning in that first part of the hike, even if you don't feel like eating, or you'll risk blowing up badly in the second week.   Don't take less food for the first week, and I'd advocate taking "comfort foods", and foods that you know you always find palatable and easy to eat.  Prioritize getting enough fuel inside you over the subtleties of nutrition or saving a few ounces.

                      Ralph
                    • herbstroh
                      Maybe I need to clarify. Everyone is different. But 1.5 pounds of food per day is adequate for me on a trip up to 7 days, giving me sufficient energy and
                      Message 11 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                        Maybe I need to clarify.

                        Everyone is different. But 1.5 pounds of food per day is adequate for me on a trip up to 7 days, giving me sufficient energy and without losing weight. After that I notice a desire to pack away larger quantities. Hence my suggestion to increase food for the latter parts of your hike.

                        You have to eat even if your appetite fails. But that does not justify taking more food then you need. Prior experience should be your guide as to how much you must consume to hike at the pace you choose.

                        Herb
                      • debrabrownbear
                        Ralph, I totally agree about taking comfort foods you know you will eat. I left more food in hiker barrels last year than it seemed that I ate. Getting ready
                        Message 12 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                          Ralph, I totally agree about taking comfort foods you know you will eat. I left more food in hiker barrels last year than it seemed that I ate. Getting ready for this year's section hike, today I was experimenting, and was able to jam 10 days of food for 2 people in to two BV500s by swapping out my usual healthier dried fruit and nuts for Snickers bars (which pack beautifully when you put five of them upright in a ziplock sandwich bag and "wrap" them along the curved inside of the can), peanut M&Ms, crushed Fritos and peanut butter. Seems almost sacrilegious, but I know we'll eat it.Debra
                        • longritchie
                          I also agree with the idea of taking food that you will want to eat. But from a practical perspective I find this is virtually impossible to do except on day
                          Message 13 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                            I also agree with the idea of taking food that you will want to eat. But from a practical perspective I find this is virtually impossible to do except on day one.

                            The single requirement that food that be non-perishable and -- the dual requirements that food is non-perishable, somewhat easy to cook and and -- the THREE requirements that food is non-perishable, easy to cook and relatively lightweight and -- the FOUR-fold requirements that food is non-perishable, easy to cook, relatively lightweight and low in volume (to fit the stupid bear canister) reduces the selection of food choices to those that are far less appealing than, say, a bacon double cheeseburger and a 20 ounce pint of good ale.

                            Often I know I would eat a lot more if I could get real food. But when faced with another serving of even my best backcountry cooking effort I just can't swallow it. I literally gag.

                            Hunger eventually cures this problem for me but trying to eat in advance on a backcountry trip is a losing proposition. For me, at least. Your mileage may vary.
                          • Jason Luban
                            I find if I mix anything with chocolate, I m happier than I otherwise would be. Milk. Granola. Even tortillas (this saved me on a long Doctors w/o Borders
                            Message 14 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                              I find if I mix anything with chocolate, I'm happier than I otherwise would be. Milk. Granola. Even tortillas (this saved me on a long Doctors w/o Borders jaunt in Guatemala years ago when I was sooo sick of tortillas and beans). 

                              I just bought a dehydrator and am gathering resources from this group on making some stuff I may actually look forward to eating (such as the stuff from Backpackingchef.com and Trailcooking.com). I have a steep learning curve, but hope to come back with wisdom on the subject of food some time soon.


                              On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 6:23 PM, longritchie <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                               

                              I also agree with the idea of taking food that you will want to eat. But from a practical perspective I find this is virtually impossible to do except on day one.

                              The single requirement that food that be non-perishable and -- the dual requirements that food is non-perishable, somewhat easy to cook and and -- the THREE requirements that food is non-perishable, easy to cook and relatively lightweight and -- the FOUR-fold requirements that food is non-perishable, easy to cook, relatively lightweight and low in volume (to fit the stupid bear canister) reduces the selection of food choices to those that are far less appealing than, say, a bacon double cheeseburger and a 20 ounce pint of good ale.

                              Often I know I would eat a lot more if I could get real food. But when faced with another serving of even my best backcountry cooking effort I just can't swallow it. I literally gag.

                              Hunger eventually cures this problem for me but trying to eat in advance on a backcountry trip is a losing proposition. For me, at least. Your mileage may vary.


                            • longritchie
                              I find if I mix anything with chocolate, I m happier than I otherwise would be. Ha! If that works for you, good. I like really fatty meats and whiskey, both
                              Message 15 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                                "I find if I mix anything with chocolate, I'm happier than I otherwise would be."

                                Ha! If that works for you, good. I like really fatty meats and whiskey, both of which fit in a bear canister okay. But I can't just eat that.

                                I ran into a couple of Scots recently who tried to convince me that tinned haggis was excellent walking fare.


                                Traditional Scottish Haggis (Pack of 2)

                                 

                              • Peter Hirst
                                My mileage always varies: I have yet to find that 20 ounce pint . . . On Jul 21, 2014, at 6:23 PM, longritchie wrote: I a bacon double cheeseburger and a 20
                                Message 16 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                                  My mileage always varies:  I have yet to find that 20 ounce pint . . .

                                  On Jul 21, 2014, at 6:23 PM, longritchie wrote:

                                   

                                  I  a bacon double cheeseburger and a 20 ounce pint of good ale.

                                   Your mileage may vary.


                                • Jason Luban
                                  Perhaps I can figure out how to make some powdered beer on haggis with my new dehydrator. Goes well with Rocky Mountain oysters and head cheese. Always fun to
                                  Message 17 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                                    Perhaps I can figure out how to make some powdered beer on haggis with my new dehydrator.  Goes well with Rocky Mountain oysters and head cheese. Always fun to feed to hungry strangers around the campfire, and it all tastes like chicken. 


                                    On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 6:47 PM, Peter Hirst peter@... [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                     

                                    My mileage always varies:  I have yet to find that 20 ounce pint . . .

                                    On Jul 21, 2014, at 6:23 PM, longritchie wrote:

                                     

                                    I  a bacon double cheeseburger and a 20 ounce pint of good ale.

                                     Your mileage may vary.



                                  • cehauser1
                                    Bobbie: Last year I used a BV450 too. It depends on how fast you are hiking. I can fit 5 days of food in the BV450 (hiking solo). 5 days in the canister
                                    Message 18 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                                      Bobbie:

                                      Last year I used a BV450 too.  It depends on how fast you are hiking.  I can fit 5 days of food in the BV450 (hiking solo).  5 days in the canister means you can hike 6 days past your resupply (first day of food does not go into the canister that first night).

                                      Chris.


                                      ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <bobbiesurber2012@...> wrote :

                                      I noticed the list includes a Bear Vault 450. This is what I own but have ben warned I need to go up to the 700 size. Any thoughts, suggestions? Leave from Devil Post Pile resupply at MTR and Independence.
                                       
                                      Thanks!
                                      Bobbie
                                       

                                      Thank you,
                                       
                                      Bobbie
                                      Bobbie Surber - LEED AP
                                      928 203-6124
                                       


                                      On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 11:59 AM, ravi@... [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                       

                                      In my opinion, the quickest way to cut weight on your list is to carry one liter of water, on average, versus the two liters listed.  That's 2.2 pounds in weight savings.  There are only a few spots on the JMT where carrying more water is necessary.  I made the mistake of carrying too much water early on the hike but after a few days I learned to carry just a bit over one liter in most places. 


                                    • cehauser1
                                      I couldn t agree more. Snickers (and other hi-calorie bars), peanut M&Ms, and peanut butter. I like Fritos but have never taken backpacking. ... Ralph, I
                                      Message 19 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                                        I couldn't agree more.  Snickers (and other hi-calorie bars), peanut M&Ms, and peanut butter.  I like Fritos but have never taken backpacking.



                                        ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <debrabrownbear@...> wrote :

                                        Ralph, I totally agree about taking comfort foods you know you will eat. I left more food in hiker barrels last year than it seemed that I ate. Getting ready for this year's section hike, today I was experimenting, and was able to jam 10 days of food for 2 people in to two BV500s by swapping out my usual healthier dried fruit and nuts for Snickers bars (which pack beautifully when you put five of them upright in a ziplock sandwich bag and "wrap" them along the curved inside of the can), peanut M&Ms, crushed Fritos and peanut butter. Seems almost sacrilegious, but I know we'll eat it.Debra
                                      • John Ladd
                                        Compressed fritos recipe: Buy Blue Corn Taco Shells. Heat in oven, per instructions. tp crisp them up. Cool. Break in half so you have 24 half-rounds rather
                                        Message 20 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                                          Compressed fritos recipe: Buy Blue Corn Taco Shells. Heat in oven, per instructions. tp crisp them up. Cool. Break in half so you have 24 half-rounds rather than 12 taco shells.. Stack. Put 5 or 6 of the half-rounds into a series of pint-sized baggies. For me they keep mostly intact for up to a 12 day trip. Eat 2 or 3 half-rounds per day. Particularly good with avocado on day one and field-mixed hummus on later days. Mix the hummus with a little left-over pesto form a dinner and its even better.

                                          On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 8:08 PM, cehauser1@... [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                          I like Fritos



                                          John Curran Ladd
                                          1616 Castro Street
                                          San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                          415-648-9279
                                        • Jason Luban
                                          Have any of you bought meals from Outdoorherbivore(.com)? On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 8:15 PM, John Ladd johnladd@gmail.com
                                          Message 21 of 23 , Jul 21, 2014
                                            Have any of you bought meals from Outdoorherbivore(.com)?


                                            On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 8:15 PM, John Ladd johnladd@... [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                             

                                            Compressed fritos recipe: Buy Blue Corn Taco Shells. Heat in oven, per instructions. tp crisp them up. Cool. Break in half so you have 24 half-rounds rather than 12 taco shells.. Stack. Put 5 or 6 of the half-rounds into a series of pint-sized baggies. For me they keep mostly intact for up to a 12 day trip. Eat 2 or 3 half-rounds per day. Particularly good with avocado on day one and field-mixed hummus on later days. Mix the hummus with a little left-over pesto form a dinner and its even better.

                                            On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 8:08 PM, cehauser1@... [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                            I like Fritos



                                            John Curran Ladd
                                            1616 Castro Street
                                            San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                            415-648-9279


                                          • dr.suuz_2013
                                            I like many of the Outdoor Herbivore meals. I especially like their Blueberry Maple Crunch and Waldorf Slaw. The slaw has dehydrated Granny Smith apples and a
                                            Message 22 of 23 , Jul 22, 2014
                                              I like many of the Outdoor Herbivore meals. I especially like their Blueberry Maple Crunch and Waldorf Slaw. The slaw has dehydrated Granny Smith apples and a comes with a packet of olive oil. At 720 calories, it was one of my favorite lunches on an AT section hike last month. The Hungry Single size of the Blueberry Maple Crunch made two servings for me. I pre-divided it at home and added Nido and a little brown sugar to each serving. 

                                              I would try their samplers to be sure what suits you before taking it on a hike. A meal (not Outdoor Herbivore) that got high ratings from REI customers and sounded delicious tasted so bad to me, that I couldn't eat it for dinner--and this was after we resupplied at MTR on our southbound trip last year, when my appetite was at its peak.
                                            • Jason Luban
                                              Thank you all so much for your thoughtful suggestions! Because of them, I have eliminated a few pounds thus far (from food, clothing, water, and a few other
                                              Message 23 of 23 , Jul 23, 2014
                                                Thank you all so much for your thoughtful suggestions! Because of them, I have eliminated a few pounds thus far (from food, clothing, water, and a few other spots), and I look forward to finding more ways to do more cutting.


                                                On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 2:59 PM, longritchie <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                                 

                                                Too much clothing.

                                                Too much everything.

                                                Don't worry about it, have a good time.


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