Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

"Drones a Daily Site in Yosemite"

Expand Messages
  • forgetwho
    From the Guardian. http://www.theguardian.com/world/feedarticle/11324165 http://www.theguardian.com/world/feedarticle/11324165 Gail
    Message 1 of 15 , May 2, 2014
    • 0 Attachment
    • Arla Hile
      Well, part of me would like to launch into a small tirade...but I d be preaching to the choir so I won t.  One might hope that an information campaign or a
      Message 2 of 15 , May 2, 2014
      • 0 Attachment
        Well, part of me would like to launch into a small tirade...but I'd be preaching to the choir so I won't. 

        One might hope that an information campaign or a even a few expensive citations would raise awareness. But all those fences and warning signs upstream of Nevada Falls hasn't completely prevented people from perishing in the falls. 

        Arla
        On Friday, May 2, 2014 6:34 PM, "forgetwho@..." <forgetwho@...> wrote:
         


      • peterhirst69
        The reg I read only prohibits pickup and delivery by aircraft, says nothing about just flying. 36 CFR 2.17(a)(3) states, delivering or retrieving a person or
        Message 3 of 15 , May 2, 2014
        • 0 Attachment
          The reg I read only prohibits pickup and delivery by aircraft, says nothing about just flying. 36 CFR 2.17(a)(3) states, "delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute, helicopter, or other airborne means, except in emergencies involving public safety or serious property loss, or pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit" is illegal.
        • Mike Bake well
          I d say fly one in front of a ranger to find out for sure. Sent from my iPad
          Message 4 of 15 , May 2, 2014
          • 0 Attachment
            I'd say fly one in front of a ranger to find out for sure. 

            Sent from my iPad

            On May 2, 2014, at 8:21 PM, <peter@...> wrote:

             

            The reg I read only prohibits pickup and delivery by aircraft, says nothing about just flying. 36 CFR 2.17(a)(3) states, "delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute, helicopter, or other airborne means, except in emergencies involving public safety or serious property loss, or pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit" is illegal.

          • Jmt
            I just finished a course in statutory interpretation. While I have not read the full portion of the CFR for context, that snippet does not sound like it
            Message 5 of 15 , May 2, 2014
            • 0 Attachment
              I just finished a course in statutory interpretation.  While I have not read the full portion of the CFR for context, that snippet does not sound like it prohibits the use of drone to take photos.  But I imagine there is alternative law with which NPS can regulate the use of drones.  It would likely be the same provision they use to prohibit aerial yours in Yosemite.  I will look into this more once I finish finals.

              Interesting stuff!

              -Rob

              Sent from my iPhone

              On May 2, 2014, at 8:26 PM, Mike Bake well <foxfish50@...> wrote:

               

              I'd say fly one in front of a ranger to find out for sure. 

              Sent from my iPad

              On May 2, 2014, at 8:21 PM, <peter@...> wrote:

               

              The reg I read only prohibits pickup and delivery by aircraft, says nothing about just flying. 36 CFR 2.17(a)(3) states, "delivering or retrieving a person or object by parachute, helicopter, or other airborne means, except in emergencies involving public safety or serious property loss, or pursuant to the terms and conditions of a permit" is illegal.

            • peterhirst69
              Rob: I think you get an A in the course. But that snippet is the only law the Park posted in support of their assertion that all uses are illegal. I think
              Message 6 of 15 , May 2, 2014
              • 0 Attachment
                Rob:  I think you get an A in the course.  But that snippet is the only law the Park posted in support of their assertion that all uses are illegal.  I think its all they got.  Over on the JMT FB, one guy suggested that the drone itself is the "object" being delivered.  How's that for a stretch?
              • Jmt
                Lol, thanks Pete. I do think this is an interesting issue and I look forward to doing a bit of research next week. While it may be the law they referred to,
                Message 7 of 15 , May 2, 2014
                • 0 Attachment
                  Lol, thanks Pete.  I do think this is an interesting issue and I look forward to doing a bit of research next week.  While it may be the law they referred to, there could be other provisions that provide alternative grounds.  I would be interested in learning about how they go about restricting the use of other aerial devices like helicopters for video and photographic purposes.  I imagine there is a permit involved.

                  -Rob

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On May 2, 2014, at 8:57 PM, <peter@...> wrote:

                   

                  Rob:  I think you get an A in the course.  But that snippet is the only law the Park posted in support of their assertion that all uses are illegal.  I think its all they got.  Over on the JMT FB, one guy suggested that the drone itself is the "object" being delivered.  How's that for a stretch?

                • eric moss
                  I know that drones are cool and that people aren t trying to ruin anything by running them in the park, but I don t want them around. I don t want the cars
                  Message 8 of 15 , May 2, 2014
                  • 0 Attachment
                    I know that drones are cool and that people aren't trying to ruin anything by running them in the park, but I don't want them around.  I don't want the cars around either. Or the snowmobiles. Or billboards or MacDonalds or zip lines or ski resorts.  It's bad enough hearing the blasted jet aircraft.  I want to feel like there is one thing that hasn't been turned into a theme park for gearheads.  Come to think of it, if anyone other than Ken Burns buzzed me with one in the "wilderness", I'd do my level best to knock it out of the sky.
                  • rstrimbeck
                    Drones are stupid, throw rocks at them.
                    Message 9 of 15 , May 3, 2014
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Drones are stupid, throw rocks at them.
                    • Jmt
                      This just in on the drone front: the park service issued an order to ban all drones in national parks. This order replaces the tenuous language Yosemite
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jun 21, 2014
                      • 0 Attachment
                        This just in on the drone front: the park service issued an order to ban all drones in national parks.  This order replaces the tenuous language Yosemite rangers relied on to ground aerial vehicles that was discussed last month.  

                        The article calls the order a "memorandum" and I'm not aware of what authority was used to enact this bit I think it is good news.  Each park has 60 days to record a rule prohibiting the use of drones in national parks.

                        Interestingly enough, when I was looking for JMT videos on youtube last night, I found quite a few videos of the park taken by drones soliciting the service for hire.


                        Regards,
                        Rob

                        Sent from my iPhone

                        On May 3, 2014, at 2:49 AM, <rstrimbeck@...> wrote:

                         

                        Drones are stupid, throw rocks at them.

                      • Dave Park
                        Just so we re clear: a drone is a self-controlled unmanned aerial vehicle that flies a path decided by on-board electronics. A remote controlled aircraft,
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jun 22, 2014
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Just so we're clear: a drone is a self-controlled unmanned aerial vehicle that flies a path decided by on-board electronics. A remote controlled aircraft, operated directly by a person at the controls, is not a drone. The US media has blurred the distinction a lot lately, to the point where a local teenager was beaten up by a woman for flying his remote control helicopter in the local park, in case he was "photographing the children"... 

                          As a PPGer (powered paraglider) I have to keep an eye on these developments because they'll want to start regulating my flying next.

                          Dave


                          On Sat, Jun 21, 2014 at 2:23 PM, Jmt jmtorbust@... [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                           

                          This just in on the drone front: the park service issued an order to ban all drones in national parks.  This order replaces the tenuous language Yosemite rangers relied on to ground aerial vehicles that was discussed last month.  

                          The article calls the order a "memorandum" and I'm not aware of what authority was used to enact this bit I think it is good news.  Each park has 60 days to record a rule prohibiting the use of drones in national parks.

                          Interestingly enough, when I was looking for JMT videos on youtube last night, I found quite a few videos of the park taken by drones soliciting the service for hire.


                          Regards,
                          Rob

                          Sent from my iPhone

                          On May 3, 2014, at 2:49 AM, <rstrimbeck@...> wrote:

                           

                          Drones are stupid, throw rocks at them.


                        • straw_marmot
                          Dave, Drone in modern common usage certainly includes unmanned airfraft that are operated in real time by a remote pilot. The distinction that you draw
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jun 22, 2014
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Dave,

                            "Drone" in modern common usage certainly includes unmanned airfraft that are operated in real time by a remote pilot.  The distinction that you draw might once have existed, but no longer.  Language changes.

                            Ralph
                          • Jmt
                            Hi Dave, I appreciate your desire for the distinction. Based on my quick research, it appears all paragliding is banned in Yosemite but hang gliding is not.
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jun 22, 2014
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Dave,

                              I appreciate your desire for the distinction.  Based on my quick research, it appears all paragliding is banned in Yosemite but hang gliding is not.  However, hang gliders must acquire a special use permit in advance and permit a particular hang gliding association to oversee the activity.


                              Regards,
                              Rob

                              Sent from my iPhone

                              On Jun 22, 2014, at 12:46 PM, "ralphbge@... [johnmuirtrail]" <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                               

                              Dave,


                              "Drone" in modern common usage certainly includes unmanned airfraft that are operated in real time by a remote pilot.  The distinction that you draw might once have existed, but no longer.  Language changes.

                              Ralph

                            • Dave Park
                              They can only regulate flights that start or end within the park. They can regulate launches and landings, but not what happens in between. They have no
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jun 22, 2014
                              • 0 Attachment
                                They can only regulate flights that start or end within the park. They can regulate launches and landings, but not what happens in between. They have no authority over the airspace itself, which is the sole domain of the FAA. As long as the person takes off and lands outside the National Park, and the park isn't regulated airspace by the FAA at the time (which can happen if there's a fire) - the NPS has no authority.

                                That said, I have no intent to overfly Yosemite. I could theoretically fly over Mt. Whitney, as my operating ceiling is 18,000 feet, but I'd *far* prefer to get there by walking from, say, 211 miles away. Also, I would feel like a bit of a dick for disturbing the peace of all those hikers who are enjoying the peace and solitude of their thoughts and surroundings.

                                Paraglider flights are regulated by the FAA under 14 CFR Chapter 1 part 103. It makes a good read - one of the last bits of regulation that says, "we do not have rules about these things, they are unregulated."

                                Dave


                                On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Jmt jmtorbust@... [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                 

                                Hi Dave,

                                I appreciate your desire for the distinction.  Based on my quick research, it appears all paragliding is banned in Yosemite but hang gliding is not.  However, hang gliders must acquire a special use permit in advance and permit a particular hang gliding association to oversee the activity.


                                Regards,
                                Rob

                              • John
                                Remember this trans-Sierra paragliding video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LQMeaVaHmc&list=UUlh9TVgpeRHLE34UC3UCy-w Cool stuff! John M.
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jun 22, 2014
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Remember this trans-Sierra paragliding video?




                                  Cool stuff!

                                  John M.

                                  On Jun 22, 2014, at 8:08 PM, Dave Park plasticuser@... [johnmuirtrail] wrote:

                                   

                                  They can only regulate flights that start or end within the park. They can regulate launches and landings, but not what happens in between. They have no authority over the airspace itself, which is the sole domain of the FAA. As long as the person takes off and lands outside the National Park, and the park isn't regulated airspace by the FAA at the time (which can happen if there's a fire) - the NPS has no authority.

                                  That said, I have no intent to overfly Yosemite. I could theoretically fly over Mt. Whitney, as my operating ceiling is 18,000 feet, but I'd *far* prefer to get there by walking from, say, 211 miles away. Also, I would feel like a bit of a dick for disturbing the peace of all those hikers who are enjoying the peace and solitude of their thoughts and surroundings.

                                  Paraglider flights are regulated by the FAA under 14 CFR Chapter 1 part 103. It makes a good read - one of the last bits of regulation that says, "we do not have rules about these things, they are unregulated."

                                  Dave


                                  On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 3:45 PM, Jmt jmtorbust@... [johnmuirtrail] <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                   

                                  Hi Dave,

                                  I appreciate your desire for the distinction.  Based on my quick research, it appears all paragliding is banned in Yosemite but hang gliding is not.  However, hang gliders must acquire a special use permit in advance and permit a particular hang gliding association to oversee the activity.


                                  Regards,
                                  Rob



                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.