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Re: [John Muir Trail] Ten Days

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  • Rich Ehli
    ... ## Our ages range from the mid-20 s to mid-60 s. The older guys have done that kind of mileage on the AT in recent years, which I m guessing is sort of
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 9 9:29 PM
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      robert shattuck wrote:
      > Rich,
      > If you've got a group of studs, 12-16 mile days, starting at Whitney shouldn't be a problem. How old and fit is this group?
      >
      ## Our ages range from the mid-20's to mid-60's. The older guys have
      done that kind of mileage on the AT in recent years, which I'm guessing
      is sort of comparable to the JMT in average total elevation gain per
      mile traveled. Plus, I once hiked a piece of the PCT in Washington,
      through the Goat Rocks, and I found the grades made it much easier to
      climb the same elevation than the typical straight up, straight down
      trails you find back East. Am I in for a surprise? I'm no stud, just
      average, and one who I'm guessing will be, despite the best of
      intentions, starting out a bit over weight and out of shape. What's the
      average mileage on the JMT? I thought it was about 12-14 miles a day.
      Too high? We have 21 days to reach the other end but the youngest, only
      10. We're not wedded to the idea of leaving him at MTR. It just seemed
      like an obvious possibility. Another option that presents itself would
      be to meet him at Vermillion Valley Resort or Devil's Postpile and he
      could use his 10 days to reach Happy Isles with us or if necessary, bail
      at TM. Again transportation issues would have to be factored into the
      decision.
      > Why are you starting at Whitney?
      ## That's what my permit reads. Never been to Yosemite. Seemed like it
      would be the ideal dessert at the end of good meal. So we're committed
      to transportation connections to the south end. We're not real focused
      on doing Whitney but what the hell, it's not that much of side trip from
      Trail Crest. I am figuring Day 1 to Trail Camp and Day 2 to Crabtree
      Meadows or a little beyond. Depending on how strong we are after the big
      climb, Day 3 might take us over Forrester Pass and a few miles down the
      Bubb Creek drainage or we might have to stop for the night before
      reaching the pass. Beyond that I haven't worked it out. I really don't
      want to push the miles and be a slave to an overly ambitious time
      schedule. Make smiles, not miles, I keep trying to remind myself.
      > I could understand if you really wanted to do whitney and with your time constraints, this was the way, but . . . If you can start at whitney, then you can also start a little farther north. Assuming you come at it from the west side, you could come in on the Rae Lakes Loop, starting at roads end and this would give you LOTS of time to make it to whitney, then turn around (do a base camp at guitar lake) and do the . . . head out through Kern Canyon, where you'd have to get back to the car(s) you left at roads end.
      > if you come in on the east side, you could start in a variety of places, which would be do-able in less than ten days . . .
      > You know of course that the whitney end has all the high passes. if you're group has a few weaklings or altitude cases, you're going to have a tough go of it

      ## Three of us have climbed most of the way up Grand Teton without any
      altitude problem but I realize that's no guarantee we won't encounter
      altitude sickness the next time out. If it happens, I just hope we have
      enough sense to recognize the problem and make the right decision. At
      least we won't be roped together, so it doesn't have to be a consensus
      decision (been there, done that).
      > . . . I'd say you'd have just enough time to make it out at Taboose Pass, go down to 395 and or have a car waiting there at the trail head.
      > Getting out at either the Vermilion Valley Resort or Muir Trail Ranch is pretty much the same thing. MTR is pretty much two,three, days from Vermilion, but they both use the same road to get out and down to FRESNO. there is no bus service from VVR or MTR and you're way back there––it's about 25 miles just to get to the very vacant "highway"
      > you could PAY BIG BUCKS to have someone drive you out, but it's a drag. Fresno has an airport, but . . . . it's fresno.
      >

      ## Off hand, does anyone what's the going rate for a shuttle? Dollar a
      mile, Two dollars a mile? Three? More?
      > if you just want to hike on the JMT for x amount of days, the very best way, via public transport is to fly into san Francisco and catch the morning amtrak into Yosemite Valley.
      > leaves from SF at 7 a.m. bus-train-bus and you are in the valley by NLT 2pm.
      > or you could just drive from SF to Yosemite and park in the long-term parking, which happens to be at the JMT trailhead. You could hike down and go out on the east side, over Puite Pass or farther, over Dusy . . . you get down out of the mountains and you have to thumb about 15 miles of barely traveled road to get down to 395
      > In my opinion, coming out on the east side is your best bet for getting down to civilization. it's like the sierra just drop down, BANG, and there's the road pretty much––whereas on the west side you come down and then it's just mile and miles of foothills and tiny towns and . . .
      > SO WHERE ARE YOU ACTUALLY FLYING/DRIVING INTO? WHICH END OF THE SIERRA? WHICH SIDE??
      >
      ## I am thinking of flying into LA or Las Vegas and renting a one-way
      rental to Ridgemont. Those points seem to be the quickest connections to
      getting within reach of Lone Pine. From Ridgemont we would arrange a
      shuttle to Lone Pine to pick up the permit and then up to Whitney Portal
      and camp for the night. Returning home from Happy Isles, I haven't
      figured out the best airport options but SF, Oakland and Sacramento all
      seem to be possible choices, perhaps Reno too. Leaving Yosemite would be
      by public transportation so that will determine the airport choice.

      > OKAY, you'll get lots of advice. HAVE you been to whitneyportalstore.com
      > Lots of good advice there. I've just hiked the trail a few times and have my ideas.
      > bob
      >
      >
      >

      ## Thanks, Bob. You've giving me a lot to think about, which was exactly
      what I was hoping for.

      Rich
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > sparklefart.blogspot.com
      > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      > From: richehli@...
      > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 02:17:00 +0000
      > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Ten Days
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      > I am looking for some advice. Our group will be starting from Whitney Portal. One member can only spare ten days on trail and four transit days between home (outside NYC) and trailheads. We're all capable of 12-16 mile days. Muir Ranch looks like a very do-able end point in this scenario but there could be problems we don't see with this option. Looking for some input and possible alternatives. For example, what's the best way to reach a major airport from MR. Thanks.
      >
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      > Rich
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    • robert shattuck
      Rich, Rich, Rich . . . It s late, the girl s in bed and I just finished my taxes . . . now I can dream of better things, like the JMT . . . here s the spoiler,
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 9 11:33 PM
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        Rich, Rich, Rich . . . It's late, the girl's in bed and I just finished my taxes . . . now I can dream of better things, like the JMT . . . here's the spoiler, of sorts, in my opinion . . . if you've got 21 days to put boots to the dusty, and you've got an age range of between 20 and 60 (plus a ten-year -old?) and they're all hardened trail vets��you guys should revise and start from the north, yosemite . . . (pause for a shot of knob creek, nitecap) Again, IN MY VERY OWN OPINION . . . finishing your trip in yosemite, is not the "ideal dessert" . . . first there's the altitude and so on . . . you start out in yosemite and build up to it��by the time you hit those passes at the end, mather, pinchot . . . glen and . . . well, you're ready��acclimated, blister-proof, fit, and up and over you go until you get to the grand old top of Whitney. there's your dessert��not plodding down into yosemite valley, getting lower and lower, passing one more spiffy, clean, tourist and then getting into the noise and relative chaos that is the valley floor. Yuck. You want to spend your last night sitting on the summit of whitney (maybe even staying) taking it all in. The valley really doesn't come close��it doesn't say, 'Hey, you just hiked 200-plus miles and you just kicked ass on all those passes and . . . the valley says, ho-hum. get in your car and go away. Sure, the valley is home to some of the worlds premiere climbing��it's also home to noise, buses, cars, idiots, did I mention noise?
        (I'm really just a shill for the Dow Villa hot tub!!!) in my opinion, whitney is kinda like Everest. If you're gonna put in the time, the TOP might as well be grand and again, yosemite, ain't that grand once you've been on the JMT for so many days . . . there's nothinglike sitting up there (or spending the night) and reveling in your accomplishment . . . get up in the morning and hike down to the portal and you (I) end up finishing in this perfectly peaceful environment, that is the portal. you thumb down to Lone Pine, check into the Dow Villa and enjoy a lovely night . . . of course all this is mute if the logistics of getting XX number of hikers back to Yosemite is a problem, but . . . okay, my late night rant . . . either way, north to south or backwards . . . can't be beat. good night.
        bob


        sparklefart.blogspot.com
        http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





        > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        > From: richehli@...
        > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 00:29:31 -0400
        > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Ten Days
        >
        >
        >
        > robert shattuck wrote:
        >> Rich,
        >> If you've got a group of studs, 12-16 mile days, starting at Whitney shouldn't be a problem. How old and fit is this group?
        >>
        > ## Our ages range from the mid-20's to mid-60's. The older guys have
        > done that kind of mileage on the AT in recent years, which I'm guessing
        > is sort of comparable to the JMT in average total elevation gain per
        > mile traveled. Plus, I once hiked a piece of the PCT in Washington,
        > through the Goat Rocks, and I found the grades made it much easier to
        > climb the same elevation than the typical straight up, straight down
        > trails you find back East. Am I in for a surprise? I'm no stud, just
        > average, and one who I'm guessing will be, despite the best of
        > intentions, starting out a bit over weight and out of shape. What's the
        > average mileage on the JMT? I thought it was about 12-14 miles a day.
        > Too high? We have 21 days to reach the other end but the youngest, only
        > 10. We're not wedded to the idea of leaving him at MTR. It just seemed
        > like an obvious possibility. Another option that presents itself would
        > be to meet him at Vermillion Valley Resort or Devil's Postpile and he
        > could use his 10 days to reach Happy Isles with us or if necessary, bail
        > at TM. Again transportation issues would have to be factored into the
        > decision.
        >> Why are you starting at Whitney?
        > ## That's what my permit reads. Never been to Yosemite. Seemed like it
        > would be the ideal dessert at the end of good meal. So we're committed
        > to transportation connections to the south end. We're not real focused
        > on doing Whitney but what the hell, it's not that much of side trip from
        > Trail Crest. I am figuring Day 1 to Trail Camp and Day 2 to Crabtree
        > Meadows or a little beyond. Depending on how strong we are after the big
        > climb, Day 3 might take us over Forrester Pass and a few miles down the
        > Bubb Creek drainage or we might have to stop for the night before
        > reaching the pass. Beyond that I haven't worked it out. I really don't
        > want to push the miles and be a slave to an overly ambitious time
        > schedule. Make smiles, not miles, I keep trying to remind myself.
        >> I could understand if you really wanted to do whitney and with your time constraints, this was the way, but . . . If you can start at whitney, then you can also start a little farther north. Assuming you come at it from the west side, you could come in on the Rae Lakes Loop, starting at roads end and this would give you LOTS of time to make it to whitney, then turn around (do a base camp at guitar lake) and do the . . . head out through Kern Canyon, where you'd have to get back to the car(s) you left at roads end.
        >> if you come in on the east side, you could start in a variety of places, which would be do-able in less than ten days . . .
        >> You know of course that the whitney end has all the high passes. if you're group has a few weaklings or altitude cases, you're going to have a tough go of it
        >
        > ## Three of us have climbed most of the way up Grand Teton without any
        > altitude problem but I realize that's no guarantee we won't encounter
        > altitude sickness the next time out. If it happens, I just hope we have
        > enough sense to recognize the problem and make the right decision. At
        > least we won't be roped together, so it doesn't have to be a consensus
        > decision (been there, done that).
        >> . . . I'd say you'd have just enough time to make it out at Taboose Pass, go down to 395 and or have a car waiting there at the trail head.
        >> Getting out at either the Vermilion Valley Resort or Muir Trail Ranch is pretty much the same thing. MTR is pretty much two,three, days from Vermilion, but they both use the same road to get out and down to FRESNO. there is no bus service from VVR or MTR and you're way back there��it's about 25 miles just to get to the very vacant "highway"
        >> you could PAY BIG BUCKS to have someone drive you out, but it's a drag. Fresno has an airport, but . . . . it's fresno.
        >>
        >
        > ## Off hand, does anyone what's the going rate for a shuttle? Dollar a
        > mile, Two dollars a mile? Three? More?
        >> if you just want to hike on the JMT for x amount of days, the very best way, via public transport is to fly into san Francisco and catch the morning amtrak into Yosemite Valley.
        >> leaves from SF at 7 a.m. bus-train-bus and you are in the valley by NLT 2pm.
        >> or you could just drive from SF to Yosemite and park in the long-term parking, which happens to be at the JMT trailhead. You could hike down and go out on the east side, over Puite Pass or farther, over Dusy . . . you get down out of the mountains and you have to thumb about 15 miles of barely traveled road to get down to 395
        >> In my opinion, coming out on the east side is your best bet for getting down to civilization. it's like the sierra just drop down, BANG, and there's the road pretty much��whereas on the west side you come down and then it's just mile and miles of foothills and tiny towns and . . .
        >> SO WHERE ARE YOU ACTUALLY FLYING/DRIVING INTO? WHICH END OF THE SIERRA? WHICH SIDE??
        >>
        > ## I am thinking of flying into LA or Las Vegas and renting a one-way
        > rental to Ridgemont. Those points seem to be the quickest connections to
        > getting within reach of Lone Pine. From Ridgemont we would arrange a
        > shuttle to Lone Pine to pick up the permit and then up to Whitney Portal
        > and camp for the night. Returning home from Happy Isles, I haven't
        > figured out the best airport options but SF, Oakland and Sacramento all
        > seem to be possible choices, perhaps Reno too. Leaving Yosemite would be
        > by public transportation so that will determine the airport choice.
        >
        >> OKAY, you'll get lots of advice. HAVE you been to whitneyportalstore.com
        >> Lots of good advice there. I've just hiked the trail a few times and have my ideas.
        >> bob
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        > ## Thanks, Bob. You've giving me a lot to think about, which was exactly
        > what I was hoping for.
        >
        > Rich
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> sparklefart.blogspot.com
        >> http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        >> From: richehli@...
        >> Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 02:17:00 +0000
        >> Subject: [John Muir Trail] Ten Days
        >>
        >>
        >>
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        >>
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        >>
        >> I am looking for some advice. Our group will be starting from Whitney Portal. One member can only spare ten days on trail and four transit days between home (outside NYC) and trailheads. We're all capable of 12-16 mile days. Muir Ranch looks like a very do-able end point in this scenario but there could be problems we don't see with this option. Looking for some input and possible alternatives. For example, what's the best way to reach a major airport from MR. Thanks.
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> Rich
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> _________________________________________________________________
        >> Quick access to your favorite MSN content and Windows Live with Internet Explorer 8.
        >> http://ie8.msn.com/microsoft/internet-explorer-8/en-us/ie8.aspx?ocid=B037MSN55C0701A
        >>
        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> ------------------------------------
        >>
        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >

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      • t_b_sharp
        Fly into Vegas (if you can,make your arrival early). Drive to Lone Pine and spend the night there. figure out the mileage you want to make each day and take
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 10 5:34 AM
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          Fly into Vegas (if you can,make your arrival early). Drive to Lone Pine and spend the night there. figure out the mileage you want to make each day and take pub trans north to that trail head and and get your boots dirty. top out on big W, head to the car at the portal and back to Vegas.






          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "beegfut" <richehli@...> wrote:
          >
          > I am looking for some advice. Our group will be starting from Whitney Portal. One member can only spare ten days on trail and four transit days between home (outside NYC) and trailheads. We're all capable of 12-16 mile days. Muir Ranch looks like a very do-able end point in this scenario but there could be problems we don't see with this option. Looking for some input and possible alternatives. For example, what's the best way to reach a major airport from MR. Thanks.
          >
          > Rich
          >
        • hmdsierra
          My then 10 year old son and I did the trail in 25 days including two days off to fish and get lost. We started at Yosemite Valley and planned only one
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 10 3:59 PM
          • 0 Attachment
            My then 10 year old son and I did the trail in 25 days including two days off to fish and get lost. We started at Yosemite Valley and planned only one resupply, at Red's Mdw, but had a second at Vidette when my friend dropped out at Red's. We averaged a little over nine miles a day.

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Rich Ehli <richehli@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > robert shattuck wrote:
            > > Rich,
            > > If you've got a group of studs, 12-16 mile days, starting at Whitney shouldn't be a problem. How old and fit is this group?
            > >
            > ## Our ages range from the mid-20's to mid-60's. The older guys have
            > done that kind of mileage on the AT in recent years, which I'm guessing
            > is sort of comparable to the JMT in average total elevation gain per
            > mile traveled. Plus, I once hiked a piece of the PCT in Washington,
            > through the Goat Rocks, and I found the grades made it much easier to
            > climb the same elevation than the typical straight up, straight down
            > trails you find back East. Am I in for a surprise? I'm no stud, just
            > average, and one who I'm guessing will be, despite the best of
            > intentions, starting out a bit over weight and out of shape. What's the
            > average mileage on the JMT? I thought it was about 12-14 miles a day.
            > Too high? We have 21 days to reach the other end but the youngest, only
            > 10. We're not wedded to the idea of leaving him at MTR. It just seemed
            > like an obvious possibility. Another option that presents itself would
            > be to meet him at Vermillion Valley Resort or Devil's Postpile and he
            > could use his 10 days to reach Happy Isles with us or if necessary, bail
            > at TM. Again transportation issues would have to be factored into the
            > decision.
            > > Why are you starting at Whitney?
            > ## That's what my permit reads. Never been to Yosemite. Seemed like it
            > would be the ideal dessert at the end of good meal. So we're committed
            > to transportation connections to the south end. We're not real focused
            > on doing Whitney but what the hell, it's not that much of side trip from
            > Trail Crest. I am figuring Day 1 to Trail Camp and Day 2 to Crabtree
            > Meadows or a little beyond. Depending on how strong we are after the big
            > climb, Day 3 might take us over Forrester Pass and a few miles down the
            > Bubb Creek drainage or we might have to stop for the night before
            > reaching the pass. Beyond that I haven't worked it out. I really don't
            > want to push the miles and be a slave to an overly ambitious time
            > schedule. Make smiles, not miles, I keep trying to remind myself.
            > > I could understand if you really wanted to do whitney and with your time constraints, this was the way, but . . . If you can start at whitney, then you can also start a little farther north. Assuming you come at it from the west side, you could come in on the Rae Lakes Loop, starting at roads end and this would give you LOTS of time to make it to whitney, then turn around (do a base camp at guitar lake) and do the . . . head out through Kern Canyon, where you'd have to get back to the car(s) you left at roads end.
            > > if you come in on the east side, you could start in a variety of places, which would be do-able in less than ten days . . .
            > > You know of course that the whitney end has all the high passes. if you're group has a few weaklings or altitude cases, you're going to have a tough go of it
            >
            > ## Three of us have climbed most of the way up Grand Teton without any
            > altitude problem but I realize that's no guarantee we won't encounter
            > altitude sickness the next time out. If it happens, I just hope we have
            > enough sense to recognize the problem and make the right decision. At
            > least we won't be roped together, so it doesn't have to be a consensus
            > decision (been there, done that).
            > > . . . I'd say you'd have just enough time to make it out at Taboose Pass, go down to 395 and or have a car waiting there at the trail head.
            > > Getting out at either the Vermilion Valley Resort or Muir Trail Ranch is pretty much the same thing. MTR is pretty much two,three, days from Vermilion, but they both use the same road to get out and down to FRESNO. there is no bus service from VVR or MTR and you're way back there––it's about 25 miles just to get to the very vacant "highway"
            > > you could PAY BIG BUCKS to have someone drive you out, but it's a drag. Fresno has an airport, but . . . . it's fresno.
            > >
            >
            > ## Off hand, does anyone what's the going rate for a shuttle? Dollar a
            > mile, Two dollars a mile? Three? More?
            > > if you just want to hike on the JMT for x amount of days, the very best way, via public transport is to fly into san Francisco and catch the morning amtrak into Yosemite Valley.
            > > leaves from SF at 7 a.m. bus-train-bus and you are in the valley by NLT 2pm.
            > > or you could just drive from SF to Yosemite and park in the long-term parking, which happens to be at the JMT trailhead. You could hike down and go out on the east side, over Puite Pass or farther, over Dusy . . . you get down out of the mountains and you have to thumb about 15 miles of barely traveled road to get down to 395
            > > In my opinion, coming out on the east side is your best bet for getting down to civilization. it's like the sierra just drop down, BANG, and there's the road pretty much––whereas on the west side you come down and then it's just mile and miles of foothills and tiny towns and . . .
            > > SO WHERE ARE YOU ACTUALLY FLYING/DRIVING INTO? WHICH END OF THE SIERRA? WHICH SIDE??
            > >
            > ## I am thinking of flying into LA or Las Vegas and renting a one-way
            > rental to Ridgemont. Those points seem to be the quickest connections to
            > getting within reach of Lone Pine. From Ridgemont we would arrange a
            > shuttle to Lone Pine to pick up the permit and then up to Whitney Portal
            > and camp for the night. Returning home from Happy Isles, I haven't
            > figured out the best airport options but SF, Oakland and Sacramento all
            > seem to be possible choices, perhaps Reno too. Leaving Yosemite would be
            > by public transportation so that will determine the airport choice.
            >
            > > OKAY, you'll get lots of advice. HAVE you been to whitneyportalstore.com
            > > Lots of good advice there. I've just hiked the trail a few times and have my ideas.
            > > bob
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            > ## Thanks, Bob. You've giving me a lot to think about, which was exactly
            > what I was hoping for.
            >
            > Rich
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > sparklefart.blogspot.com
            > > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
            > > From: richehli@...
            > > Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 02:17:00 +0000
            > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Ten Days
            > >
            > >
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            > > I am looking for some advice. Our group will be starting from Whitney Portal. One member can only spare ten days on trail and four transit days between home (outside NYC) and trailheads. We're all capable of 12-16 mile days. Muir Ranch looks like a very do-able end point in this scenario but there could be problems we don't see with this option. Looking for some input and possible alternatives. For example, what's the best way to reach a major airport from MR. Thanks.
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            > > Rich
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            > > _________________________________________________________________
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