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park ranger saying backtracking is not allowed

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  • homegrownharrod
    i ve been rejected for the hi/pass thru the past five days. i resubmitted (faxed) applying for the GP/illioutte and HI/illouette. i got rejected for both. i
    Message 1 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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       i've been rejected for the hi/pass thru the past five days. i resubmitted (faxed) applying for the GP/illioutte and HI/illouette. i got rejected for both. i didn't understand because one had dates open back to the 8 and one had dates open back to the 11th. i told him my intent to hike the john muir trail by taking either of those trailheads when i called. he said that isn't allowed. i'm very confused. i'm considering just hopping on at lyell canyon. how many miles am i missing? would you hold out or take what you can get? i was considering camping in the valley the first night and trying to get a walk up and if not, drive to lyell canyon and start the hike. what do you think? any advice would be helpful. thank you.
    • Larry Beck
      You ll miss around 25 miles I think. You should maybe grab that permit then show up for a HI walk-in that morning before driving up to Tuolumne Meadows. You
      Message 2 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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        You'll miss around 25 miles I think. You should maybe grab that permit then show up for a HI walk-in that morning before driving up to Tuolumne Meadows.
        You would also miss climbing up out of Yosemite Valley past Vernal and Nevada Falls and you'd miss Cathedral Lakes.. (definitely a must see!)
         
        From: "charrod@..." <charrod@...>
        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 1:47 PM
        Subject: [John Muir Trail] park ranger saying backtracking is not allowed
         
         i've been rejected for the hi/pass thru the past five days. i resubmitted (faxed) applying for the GP/illioutte and HI/illouette. i got rejected for both. i didn't understand because one had dates open back to the 8 and one had dates open back to the 11th. i told him my intent to hike the john muir trail by taking either of those trailheads when i called. he said that isn't allowed. i'm very confused. i'm considering just hopping on at lyell canyon. how many miles am i missing? would you hold out or take what you can get? i was considering camping in the valley the first night and trying to get a walk up and if not, drive to lyell canyon and start the hike. what do you think? any advice would be helpful. thank you.
      • homegrownharrod
        yeah, i was having a hard time thinking about missing that part of the trail. so, i just got a permit for HI/illouette for august the 11th. they said i need to
        Message 3 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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          yeah, i was having a hard time thinking about missing that part of the trail. so, i just got a permit for HI/illouette for august the 11th. they said i need to head south. my plan was to camp in illouette then head back onto the JMT. i will camp the night before i leave in yosemite and try to get a HI to LYV or pass thru when i'm there but at least i have a back up. is there a special campsite people camp out at to be first in line at the wilderness center? i feel bad for backtracking... :/ meh.
        • cjoslyn99
          People have received that permit before. Did you clarify where you would be camping the first night (i.e., NOT on JMT)? The map clearly states you can t back
          Message 4 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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            People have received that permit before.  Did you clarify where you would be camping the first night (i.e., NOT on JMT)? The map clearly states you can't back track to another trailhead, but you'r not doing that.

            Hikers may not backtrack from one trailhead to another trailhead on any night of their trip (either partially or fully) unless exiting at their entry trailhead to end their wilderness trip.


             

          • Roleigh Martin
            I ve mentioned this before but it needs repeating. In the situation when you know the trailhead quota has not been eaten up and there is room for you, call
            Message 5 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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              I've mentioned this before but it needs repeating.  

              In the situation when you know the trailhead quota has not been "eaten up" and there is room for you, call up the permit reservation office but before you ask for the permit, ask for the person's name politely (and write it down), then first ask that person if you're understanding the permit reservation rules.

              Ask the person if it's true that "there is no JMT permit" -- mentioning this link and sentence:

              On http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/jmt.htm  it says:

               

              John Muir Trail
              If you plan to hike the John Muir Trail as a continuous hike, you only need one 
              wilderness permitfor the entire trip (you do not need a "Whitney stamp"). Most people begin the hike at Happy Isles (its traditional start in Yosemite Valley), however many people begin at Lyell Canyon (Tuolumne Meadows) because permits for this trailhead are slightly easier to obtain. There is no special JMT permit.


              On http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/upload/Wilderness-Trailheads_07-14-2013_28x38-1.pdf  -- Link

              it says:

              Hikers must at least hike to the arrow or point before camping.

              Colored lines and arrows indicate direction of travel for each trailhead

               If point is shown hikers must camp at point. They may [Roleigh’s note: not “can”] camp beyond 

              Wilderness hikers must camp in the area indicated on the map for their corresponding trailhead.

              Hikers may not backtrack from one trailhead to another trailhead on any night of their trip (either partially or fully) unless exiting at their entry trailhead to end their wilderness trip.

              If he or she says you understand the rules right, then indicate you realize there is room for more reservations to be made via route such-n-such.  If the person says you can't get the reservation, ask him/her which rule is being violated because (a) you are not backtracking to any trailhead, (b) you are not backing onto any other trail on the same day (the rule says you can't do such on "any night").  If there was a rule against backtracking on a trail, then Half Dome is obviously out, so is a side-tangent to Cloud's Rest, also a side-tangent to Nevada-Falls if doing the JMT via the Mist Trail.

              Remember, be most polite throughout the whole process.  Don't let the person know where you're going with your request until you've established with him or her that you know the scope of rules surrounding what you can ask for.  Remember at this point of the conversation, you know the person's name too.

              At that point, the person is not going to be able to finger any rule you're violating, and the odds are nearly 100% you'll get the permit you want.  You obviously talked to someone who is using their personal bias and opinion to not have you get a legally permissible permit.  It's that situation where the conservancy group volunteer is interjecting their own bias.

              If they point to a rule we're not familiar with, get the link and the page and check it out.  The group needs to know about it.

              Thanks!
              roleigh




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              On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 1:47 PM, <charrod@...> wrote:
               

               i've been rejected for the hi/pass thru the past five days. i resubmitted (faxed) applying for the GP/illioutte and HI/illouette. i got rejected for both. i didn't understand because one had dates open back to the 8 and one had dates open back to the 11th. i told him my intent to hike the john muir trail by taking either of those trailheads when i called. he said that isn't allowed. i'm very confused. i'm considering just hopping on at lyell canyon. how many miles am i missing? would you hold out or take what you can get? i was considering camping in the valley the first night and trying to get a walk up and if not, drive to lyell canyon and start the hike. what do you think? any advice would be helpful. thank you.


            • homegrownharrod
              thank you roleigh. there was a post about HI to illouette a couple days ago that i have been reading too that s helping. it comforts me that i m not the only
              Message 6 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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                thank you roleigh. there was a post about HI to illouette a couple days ago that i have been reading too that's helping. it comforts me that i'm not the only one hiking the JMT with the HI to Illioutte permit. 
              • Roleigh Martin
                I used the HI-Illouette-WP permit last year in a group of 6 and am doing the identical thing this year (already have my reservation). Never had any ranger
                Message 7 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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                  I used the HI-Illouette-WP permit last year in a group of 6 and am doing the identical thing this year (already have my reservation).

                  Never had any ranger question the application at all, but remember whom you're talking with when you apply for a reservation -- they are with Yosemite Conservancy group.  But when you get the permit, you'll get it from Rangers at the wilderness office.

                  Bring along the Tom Harrison map, Half Dome: Glacier Point, Yosemite Creek, Tenaya Lake, Little Yosemite Valley trail map -- it is a small map but has the blow-up of the area you'll be camping at the first night, ask the ranger to circle where you can camp that is closest to getting you back on your way up the JMT the next morning.  Ask for this help after they've handed you the permit though.

                  Roleigh

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                  On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 2:33 PM, <charrod@...> wrote:
                   

                  thank you roleigh. there was a post about HI to illouette a couple days ago that i have been reading too that's helping. it comforts me that i'm not the only one hiking the JMT with the HI to Illioutte permit. 


                • homegrownharrod
                  thanks for the helpful information on where to pick up my permit, what to ask and what map to carry.i ll be asking where is the closest spot i can camp from
                  Message 8 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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                    thanks for the helpful information on where to pick up my permit, what to ask and what map to carry.i'll be asking where is the closest spot i can camp from the happy isles trailhead? how long did it take you last year? where did you camp the second night?
                  • Roleigh Martin
                    I m 64 remember, we camped at Sunrise Creek on night 2 (just before doing the mountain without a name before getting to Sunrise High Sierra camp). ... Visit my
                    Message 9 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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                      I'm 64 remember, we camped at Sunrise Creek on night 2 (just before doing the mountain without a name before getting to Sunrise High Sierra camp).



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                      On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 2:50 PM, <charrod@...> wrote:
                       

                      thanks for the helpful information on where to pick up my permit, what to ask and what map to carry.i'll be asking where is the closest spot i can camp from the happy isles trailhead? how long did it take you last year? where did you camp the second night?


                    • homegrownharrod
                      good to know, thank you! i m in my mid twenties and will be spending my 27th birthday on the trail. i m hoping i can finish in 21-23 days using this trailhead.
                      Message 10 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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                        good to know, thank you! i'm in my mid twenties and will be spending my 27th birthday on the trail. i'm hoping i can finish in 21-23 days using this trailhead. we'll see. i'm beyond excited for this trip. i think it will be a life changer.
                      • eric schultz
                        I was lucky enough to get my permit on Monday for Saturday start. My back up plan was to use Mono Meadows. You can only hike a few miles the first day. I
                        Message 11 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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                          I was lucky enough to get my permit on Monday for Saturday start. My back up plan was to use Mono Meadows.  You can only hike  a few miles the first day.   I was going to use it instead of my first night at the noisy and overcrowded  backpackers camp.  The next day you can hike to LYV and spend the night.  The next day you can day hike to the valley floor and back or head to sunrise.
                          Thanks
                          Eric 


                          On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 2:40 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                           

                          I used the HI-Illouette-WP permit last year in a group of 6 and am doing the identical thing this year (already have my reservation).

                          Never had any ranger question the application at all, but remember whom you're talking with when you apply for a reservation -- they are with Yosemite Conservancy group.  But when you get the permit, you'll get it from Rangers at the wilderness office.

                          Bring along the Tom Harrison map, Half Dome: Glacier Point, Yosemite Creek, Tenaya Lake, Little Yosemite Valley trail map -- it is a small map but has the blow-up of the area you'll be camping at the first night, ask the ranger to circle where you can camp that is closest to getting you back on your way up the JMT the next morning.  Ask for this help after they've handed you the permit though.

                          Roleigh

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                          On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 2:33 PM, <charrod@...> wrote:
                           

                          thank you roleigh. there was a post about HI to illouette a couple days ago that i have been reading too that's helping. it comforts me that i'm not the only one hiking the JMT with the HI to Illioutte permit. 



                        • robert shattuck
                          . . . just before doing the mountain without a name Roleigh, The mountain without a name is a great (and I gotta stop giving up secret spots) place to camp;
                          Message 12 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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                            ". . . just before doing the mountain without a name" 

                            Roleigh, 

                             The mountain without a name is a great  (and I gotta stop giving up secret spots) place to camp; in my experience of maybe 8-10 times up there, no bugs, no bears, no jabbering pot-banging yahoos  (like in the HC camp) no water and on the plus side, some sweet views. 

                            But it's another "Bighorn Plateau" kinda place being in the middle of where everyone wants to get and they just blitz up and over it . . . 


                            BOB SHATTUCK
                            http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480




                            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                            From: roleigh@...
                            Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 14:53:17 -0800
                            Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] RE: park ranger saying backtracking is not allowed

                             

                            I'm 64 remember, we camped at Sunrise Creek on night 2 (just before doing the mountain without a name before getting to Sunrise High Sierra camp).



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                            On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 2:50 PM, <charrod@...> wrote:
                             
                            thanks for the helpful information on where to pick up my permit, what to ask and what map to carry.i'll be asking where is the closest spot i can camp from the happy isles trailhead? how long did it take you last year? where did you camp the second night?


                          • Roleigh Martin
                            Why does it not have a name? It s great up there and a perfect place to dry-camp. Water s available about 1/2 mile north of it before approaching the peak
                            Message 13 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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                              Why does it not have a name?  It's great up there and a perfect place to dry-camp.  Water's available about 1/2 mile north of it before approaching the peak too.  I forget the altitude, that might be an issue for some.  Do you recall the altitude, Bob?

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                              On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 3:46 PM, robert shattuck <bobolonius@...> wrote:
                               

                              ". . . just before doing the mountain without a name" 

                              Roleigh, 

                               The mountain without a name is a great  (and I gotta stop giving up secret spots) place to camp; in my experience of maybe 8-10 times up there, no bugs, no bears, no jabbering pot-banging yahoos  (like in the HC camp) no water and on the plus side, some sweet views. 

                              But it's another "Bighorn Plateau" kinda place being in the middle of where everyone wants to get and they just blitz up and over it . . . 


                              BOB SHATTUCK
                              http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480




                              To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                              From: roleigh@...
                              Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2014 14:53:17 -0800
                              Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] RE: park ranger saying backtracking is not allowed


                               

                              I'm 64 remember, we camped at Sunrise Creek on night 2 (just before doing the mountain without a name before getting to Sunrise High Sierra camp).



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                              Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
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                              On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 2:50 PM, <charrod@...> wrote:
                               
                              thanks for the helpful information on where to pick up my permit, what to ask and what map to carry.i'll be asking where is the closest spot i can camp from the happy isles trailhead? how long did it take you last year? where did you camp the second night?



                            • robert shattuck
                              I forget the altitude, that might be an issue for some. Do you recall the altitude? Roleigh, I never think about it, never had issues, but the altitude
                              Message 14 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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                                "I forget the altitude, that might be an issue for some.  Do you recall the altitude?" 

                                Roleigh, 

                                I never think about it, never had issues, but the altitude looks to be about 9600 feet, assuming we're talking the same "Mountain" since you mention the proximity to water. 

                                Sunrise Creek crosses the trail twice on the map––the last crossing having been dry for years now, but once you get up just before the switch-backs there has always been a chance that you'll find a trickle here and there. 

                                Best thing to do though is fill up and guzzle as much as you can down below, carry it up, dry camp. 



                                Bob Shattuck


                                http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480



                              • steven_thaw
                                The Yosemite Valley backpackers walkin campground near Tenaya Creek for the night before and after the permit trip dates.
                                Message 15 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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                                  The Yosemite Valley backpackers walkin campground near Tenaya Creek for the night before and after the permit trip dates.
                                • Roleigh Martin
                                  Bob, I know what you mean about Sunrise Creek being dry, but about 1/16th of a mile beyond (south bound) of the dry Sunrise Creek is a tiny creek with enough
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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                                    Bob, I know what you mean about Sunrise Creek being dry, but about 1/16th of a mile beyond (south bound) of the dry Sunrise Creek is a tiny creek with enough water (for the last two summers) to handle a camping group (it handled us).  As you go up the mountain with no name, the water alongside the trail is to the right, you have to walk about 60-90 feet or so to get to it (to your right, going uphill).  I know that Bob and I are talking about the same spot.  It's the last "peak" you do before going all downhill from there to get to Sunrise High Sierra camp (coming in from Yosemite Valley side).

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                                    On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 4:28 PM, robert shattuck <bobolonius@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    "I forget the altitude, that might be an issue for some.  Do you recall the altitude?" 

                                    Roleigh, 

                                    I never think about it, never had issues, but the altitude looks to be about 9600 feet, assuming we're talking the same "Mountain" since you mention the proximity to water. 

                                    Sunrise Creek crosses the trail twice on the map––the last crossing having been dry for years now, but once you get up just before the switch-backs there has always been a chance that you'll find a trickle here and there. 

                                    Best thing to do though is fill up and guzzle as much as you can down below, carry it up, dry camp. 




                                  • robert shattuck
                                    As you go up the mountain with no name, the water alongside the trail is to the right, you have to walk about 60-90 feet or so to get to it (to your right,
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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                                      "As you go up the mountain with no name, the water alongside the trail is to the right, you have to walk about 60-90 feet or so to get to it (to your right, going uphill)."

                                      Roleigh, 

                                      Yes, exactly . . . and this is an unreliable, quirky source . . . oddly enough, when it was "super dry" last August, this was in, you might say––here and there, but you'd be taking water out of a very shallow source, like trying to drink out of a fountain where  the water just dribbles over the spout.  

                                      I often tell people about this source, but I do not recommend that they drink up all their water, assuming that they'll find this trickle alive and flowing. 

                                      Even in the years when it's been good, it's still managed to vanish and not make it to the second crossing there. 



                                      BOB SHATTUCK
                                      http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480




                                    • Byron Nevins
                                      Another option is to get a Lyell permit. And then try to get meals-only at Sunrise High Sierra Camp. If you can get a reservation it guarantees a permit from
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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                                        Another option is to get a Lyell permit. And then try to get meals-only at Sunrise High Sierra Camp. If you can get a reservation it guarantees a permit from HI to TM. It also guarantees a light pack and a belly full of excellent food. And no small consideration this year -- all the water you want for drinking.
                                        You DO have to go all the way to the camp on the first day though. 13 miles.

                                        I'll be eating there on aug 16. Then heading out Lyell on the 18th.

                                        Sent from my iPhone
                                      • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                                        The year before last I came across a HSC customer along side the Merced - about 4 miles out of the LYV site - who was having a hard time of it. He had come
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Mar 4, 2014
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                                          The year before last I came across a HSC customer along side the Merced - about 4 miles out of the LYV site - who was having a hard time of it. He had come down from Glacier point and was making for the Merced HSC. He elected to turn back, I think his concern was not only not being able to make it all the way to the camp, but once there, if he would be able to get out again. Any trekker should know what they are getting into. Even only carrying a day pack at that altitude and those climbing trails can be hard if the hiker is not prepared for it.
                                          Ken.
                                        • martin lisa
                                          Hey Byron Can I ask how you go about getting a meal at one of the HS Camps? We are not doing the JMT but a 7 day loop from/to GP via Red Peak and
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Mar 5, 2014
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                                            Hey Byron

                                            Can I ask how you go about getting a meal at one of the HS Camps? We
                                            are not doing the JMT but a 7 day loop from/to GP via Red Peak and
                                            Vogelsang...a hot meal at their HS Camp would be great!!!

                                            Any info most welcome!

                                            Lisa.

                                            On 05/03/2014, Byron Nevins <byron.nevins@...> wrote:
                                            > Another option is to get a Lyell permit. And then try to get meals-only at
                                            > Sunrise High Sierra Camp. If you can get a reservation it guarantees a
                                            > permit from HI to TM. It also guarantees a light pack and a belly full of
                                            > excellent food. And no small consideration this year -- all the water you
                                            > want for drinking.
                                            > You DO have to go all the way to the camp on the first day though. 13 miles.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > I'll be eating there on aug 16. Then heading out Lyell on the 18th.
                                            >
                                            > Sent from my iPhone
                                          • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                                            Go to: http://www.yosemitepark.com/high-sierra-camp-rates.aspx http://www.yosemitepark.com/high-sierra-camp-rates.aspx
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Mar 5, 2014
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                                            • berdomb
                                              I figured some issues were occurring at the permit office like this was happening, because I got rejected for HI and GP to IL, and then someone else said they
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Mar 5, 2014
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                                                I figured some issues were occurring at the permit office like this was happening, because I got rejected for HI and GP to IL, and then someone else  said they called and got it for the same day I was rejected for. 
                                              • Saxgoddess25
                                                It really sucks that things like this happen. I m not going this year, hoping to go in July 2015, but I ve got a severe social anxiety related phobia about
                                                Message 23 of 29 , Mar 6, 2014
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                                                  It really sucks that things like this happen.  I'm not going this year, hoping to go in July 2015, but I've got a severe social anxiety related phobia about phone calls.  I'm really worrying about what will happen next year if I keep getting turned down for a trailhead request and I have to call them.  :(  I predict a bunch of freaking out on my end.
                                                • Edwardo Rodriguez
                                                  Have you thought about going NOBO via Cottonwood Pass you can get a permit now via Cottonwood Lakes On Thursday, March 6, 2014 10:21 AM,
                                                  Message 24 of 29 , Mar 6, 2014
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                                                    Have you thought about going NOBO via Cottonwood Pass you can get a permit now via Cottonwood Lakes


                                                    On Thursday, March 6, 2014 10:21 AM, "saxgoddess25@..." <saxgoddess25@...> wrote:
                                                     

                                                    It really sucks that things like this happen.  I'm not going this year, hoping to go in July 2015, but I've got a severe social anxiety related phobia about phone calls.  I'm really worrying about what will happen next year if I keep getting turned down for a trailhead request and I have to call them.  :(  I predict a bunch of freaking out on my end.


                                                  • Lynn Alexander
                                                    I second this recommendation. There is no way I would want to go through the Yosemite permit nightmare. I got a pass online for Cottonwood pass last year and
                                                    Message 25 of 29 , Mar 6, 2014
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                                                      I second this recommendation.  There is no way I would want to go through the Yosemite permit nightmare.  I got a pass online for Cottonwood pass last year and would never do it any other way in the future. It was so much easier! Will be doing it again next week, my planned departure is 9/12.

                                                      On Mar 6, 2014 11:01 AM, "Edwardo Rodriguez" <edwardo.rodriguez53@...> wrote:
                                                       

                                                      Have you thought about going NOBO via Cottonwood Pass you can get a permit now via Cottonwood Lakes


                                                      On Thursday, March 6, 2014 10:21 AM, "saxgoddess25@..." <saxgoddess25@...> wrote:
                                                       

                                                      It really sucks that things like this happen.  I'm not going this year, hoping to go in July 2015, but I've got a severe social anxiety related phobia about phone calls.  I'm really worrying about what will happen next year if I keep getting turned down for a trailhead request and I have to call them.  :(  I predict a bunch of freaking out on my end.


                                                    • Saxgoddess25
                                                      Hmm, I hadn t thought about that, but I will do some research. I had planned on flying into Mammoth Lakes to acclimate to altitude for a few days before I
                                                      Message 26 of 29 , Mar 6, 2014
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                                                        Hmm, I hadn't thought about that, but I will do some research.  I had planned on flying into Mammoth Lakes to acclimate to altitude for a few days before I started off SOBO (since I live pretty much AT sea level right now) and I'm concerned with starting Whitney first.
                                                      • Edwardo Rodriguez
                                                        Am going NOBO this year I put my name in the Lotto to go up Whitney Tail if that does not work out for me am getting my permit via Cottonwood Pass, Last time I
                                                        Message 27 of 29 , Mar 6, 2014
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                                                          Am going NOBO this year I put my name in the Lotto to go up Whitney Tail if that does not work out for me am getting my permit via Cottonwood Pass, Last time I look you can get your permit via Cottonwood lakes (to visit Whitney). Once you get your permit you go and pick it up and tell them that you are hiking the JMT. All what you need is give them where you are planing to camp out at. I call up the ranger station because my exit date was on June 18 and I was starting June 17 and they told me just bring in where I was camping out at. The road to trail head you have to start to go to Whitney Portal make a left hand turn onto Horseshoe Meadow Rd.
                                                          If you do go NOBO you can take ESTA bus into Lone Pine, get your permit then hitch a ride to the trail head. If I wanted I can have my permit in hand to do the JMT via Cottonwood Lakes but I wanted to be part of the Zoo going up the trail



                                                          On Thursday, March 6, 2014 11:47 AM, "saxgoddess25@..." <saxgoddess25@...> wrote:
                                                           
                                                          Hmm, I hadn't thought about that, but I will do some research.  I had planned on flying into Mammoth Lakes to acclimate to altitude for a few days before I started off SOBO (since I live pretty much AT sea level right now) and I'm concerned with starting Whitney first.


                                                        • Carolsteveyoung
                                                          My best advice (still worth two cents) is acclimate as you mentioned. A couple nights will help you enjoy the beginning of trip and ward off altitude problems.
                                                          Message 28 of 29 , Mar 7, 2014
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                                                            My best advice (still worth two cents) is acclimate as you mentioned.
                                                            A couple nights will help you enjoy the beginning of trip and ward off altitude problems. Best advice is approx 1000 feet per night. E.g. your first JMT camp is 7000 and you live at 1000 so six nights before you are acclimated. Most people don't have that luxury time wise but I really like a rest day either second or third day out. Helps with feet and knees too. I bring a bit of heavier tasty food (e. g. tuna packets) to make the first couple meals nice and tasty. 

                                                            Drink fluids and electrolytes for first several days & nights. Your first adaptation is increased blood volume. Use salt generously the first week. Blood plasma is as salty as seawater. 

                                                            Have a great trip !

                                                            Steve Young
                                                            Geneva IL


                                                            On Mar 6, 2014, at 10:24 PM, Edwardo Rodriguez <edwardo.rodriguez53@...> wrote:

                                                             

                                                            Am going NOBO this year I put my name in the Lotto to go up Whitney Tail if that does not work out for me am getting my permit via Cottonwood Pass, Last time I look you can get your permit via Cottonwood lakes (to visit Whitney). Once you get your permit you go and pick it up and tell them that you are hiking the JMT. All what you need is give them where you are planing to camp out at. I call up the ranger station because my exit date was on June 18 and I was starting June 17 and they told me just bring in where I was camping out at. The road to trail head you have to start to go to Whitney Portal make a left hand turn onto Horseshoe Meadow Rd.
                                                            If you do go NOBO you can take ESTA bus into Lone Pine, get your permit then hitch a ride to the trail head. If I wanted I can have my permit in hand to do the JMT via Cottonwood Lakes but I wanted to be part of the Zoo going up the trail



                                                            On Thursday, March 6, 2014 11:47 AM, "saxgoddess25@..." <saxgoddess25@...> wrote:
                                                             
                                                            Hmm, I hadn't thought about that, but I will do some research.  I had planned on flying into Mammoth Lakes to acclimate to altitude for a few days before I started off SOBO (since I live pretty much AT sea level right now) and I'm concerned with starting Whitney first.


                                                          • John Ladd
                                                            Often the 1000 or 1300 ft per night rule of thumb is states as to not require counting until you get to 8000. So sea level to 8000 in one night, then 9000,
                                                            Message 29 of 29 , Mar 7, 2014
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                                                              Often the 1000 or 1300 ft per night rule of thumb is states as to not require counting until you get to 8000. So sea level to 8000 in one night, then 9000, then 10,000 etc. Not that the rule works for all. But it works for most. Our links area has links to the sources in a sub folder under Safety ...

                                                              On Friday, March 7, 2014, Carolsteveyoung <carolsteveyoung@...> wrote:
                                                               

                                                              My best advice (still worth two cents) is acclimate as you mentioned.
                                                              A couple nights will help you enjoy the beginning of trip and ward off altitude problems. Best advice is approx 1000 feet per night. E.g. your first JMT camp is 7000 and you live at 1000 so six nights before you are acclimated. Most people don't have that luxury time wise but I really like a rest day either second or third day out. Helps with feet and knees too. I bring a bit of heavier tasty food (e. g. tuna packets) to make the first couple meals nice and tasty. 

                                                              Drink fluids and electrolytes for first several days & nights. Your first adaptation is increased blood volume. Use salt generously the first week. Blood plasma is as salty as seawater. 

                                                              Have a great trip !

                                                              Steve Young
                                                              Geneva IL


                                                              On Mar 6, 2014, at 10:24 PM, Edwardo Rodriguez <edwardo.rodriguez53@...> wrote:

                                                               

                                                              Am going NOBO this year I put my name in the Lotto to go up Whitney Tail if that does not work out for me am getting my permit via Cottonwood Pass, Last time I look you can get your permit via Cottonwood lakes (to visit Whitney). Once you get your permit you go and pick it up and tell them that you are hiking the JMT. All what you need is give them where you are planing to camp out at. I call up the ranger station because my exit date was on June 18 and I was starting June 17 and they told me just bring in where I was camping out at. The road to trail head you have to start to go to Whitney Portal make a left hand turn onto Horseshoe Meadow Rd.
                                                              If you do go NOBO you can take ESTA bus into Lone Pine, get your permit then hitch a ride to the trail head. If I wanted I can have my permit in hand to do the JMT via Cottonwood Lakes but I wanted to be part of the Zoo going up the trail



                                                              On Thursday, March 6, 2014 11:47 AM, "saxgoddess25@..." <saxgoddess25@...> wrote:
                                                               
                                                              Hmm, I hadn't thought about that, but I will do some research.  I had planned on flying into Mammoth Lakes to acclimate to altitude for a few days before I started off SOBO (since I live pretty much AT sea level right now) and I'm concerned with starting Whitney first.




                                                              --
                                                              John Curran Ladd
                                                              1616 Castro Street
                                                              San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                                              415-648-9279
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