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Re: [John Muir Trail] Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs

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  • Ima Person
    if you provide a complete gear list, i m sure everyone can chime in as to whether a particular piece of gear is really needed or not, vital or comfort.
    Message 1 of 22 , Mar 4 6:41 AM
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      if you provide a complete gear list, i'm sure everyone can chime in as to whether a particular piece of gear is "really" needed or not, vital or comfort.




      ________________________________
      From: sheehan1962 <sheehan1962@...>
      To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 1:13:21 AM
      Subject: [John Muir Trail] Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs


      It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying to cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if that's at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?







      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Jim W
      Post your complete gear list and describe your general hiking style here and/or on the Backpacking Light dot com forums and you will certainly get a lot of
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 4 8:16 AM
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        Post your complete gear list and describe your general hiking style
        here and/or on the Backpacking Light dot com forums and you will
        certainly get a lot of suggestions. I also suggest giving your budget
        for new gear. The cheapest, lightest gear is that which you don't
        bring along.

        My pack base weight used to average about 35 pounds before food. For
        the JMT last year it was 18. The only thing I wished for was a better
        shelter- but I didn't need it. Now with a new sleeping bag, pad, and
        tent my gear weight is down in the 15 range and I don't think I'm
        skimping anywhere.

        The biggest single weight saving was buying a 2 pound pack to replace
        my old 7 pound model. Such a light pack wouldn't have worked with 30
        pounds of gear plus food in it though.

        Jim
        JMT 2008
        Yosemite-Tahoe 2009?
      • robert shattuck
        Sheehan1962, can you cut your weight from 60 pounds to 30. Yes, just spend the money. realistic for this trail . . . sure. Just spend the money. Again. take
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 4 10:22 AM
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          Sheehan1962,
          can you cut your weight from 60 pounds to 30. Yes, just spend the money. "realistic for this trail" . . . sure. Just spend the money. Again. take a look at your gear��first your pack, sleeping bag and tent.
          I went from a 7.5 pound pack to one just about 2 pounds. I went from a 5.5 pound winter bag (that I used year round and roasted) to one that's just under 2 pounds. I went from a 4.5 pound tent to . . . well, I tried one of those almost BIVY size tents and decided that carrying a good size tent is a luxury I can deal with, so bought another 4 pound tent and I love it . . . and all you have to do is SPEND THE CASH.
          Look at your clothes next. Bet you've got two of everything. You don't need two of everything. I'd say the only thing you really need two pairs of is socks. Everything else can get wet or dirty and you can still hike in it. Look at your jacket. is it down or fleece? I carried too many bulky down jackets over the years and I finally figured it out��spend the money and buy a super light-weight down jacket that will do you fine for the JMT.
          I bought a MONTBELL U.L. Hoody . . . http://www.trailspace.com/gear/montbell/u.l.-down-inner-parka/ . . . . Amazing down jacket and super light, for about $150. My other down weighs about three or four times as much as also takes up valuable BEAR CANISTER space.
          I went from sixty-plus to between 35-40 . . . and all I did was spend the money.
          the other bob





          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
          From: sheehan1962@...
          Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:13:21 +0000
          Subject: [John Muir Trail] Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs





















          It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying to cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if that's at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?






















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        • richfax
          Sheehan1962, In my opinion 15 to 30 pounds of food & gear, or less, is all most folks need to safely hike the JMT.   The book Lightweight Backpacking &
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 4 11:08 AM
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            Sheehan1962,

            In my opinion 15 to 30 pounds of food & gear, or less, is all most folks need to safely hike the JMT.   The book "Lightweight Backpacking & Camping" is one of the best guides for learning how to reduce pack weight and will provide you with some simple, practical, and inexpensive ideas to make it happen.  Good luck!
            http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00070.html
             




            ________________________________
            From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 12:22:25 PM
            Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs




            Sheehan1962,
            can you cut your weight from 60 pounds to 30. Yes, just spend the money. "realistic for this trail" . . . sure. Just spend the money. Again. take a look at your gear末first your pack, sleeping bag and tent.
            I went from a 7.5 pound pack to one just about 2 pounds. I went from a 5.5 pound winter bag (that I used year round and roasted) to one that's just under 2 pounds. I went from a 4.5 pound tent to . . . well, I tried one of those almost BIVY size tents and decided that carrying a good size tent is a luxury I can deal with, so bought another 4 pound tent and I love it . . . and all you have to do is SPEND THE CASH.
            Look at your clothes next. Bet you've got two of everything. You don't need two of everything. I'd say the only thing you really need two pairs of is socks. Everything else can get wet or dirty and you can still hike in it. Look at your jacket. is it down or fleece? I carried too many bulky down jackets over the years and I finally figured it out末spend the money and buy a super light-weight down jacket that will do you fine for the JMT.
            I bought a MONTBELL U.L. Hoody . . . http://www.trailspace.com/gear/montbell/u.l.-down-inner-parka/ . . . .  Amazing down jacket and super light, for about $150. My other down weighs about three or four times as much as also takes up valuable BEAR CANISTER space.
            I went from sixty-plus to between 35-40 . . . and all I did was spend the money.
            the other bob





            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
            From: sheehan1962@...
            Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:13:21 +0000
            Subject: [John Muir Trail] Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs




















               
                        It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying to cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if that's at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?







                 

               
               
               
               
               
               


               


               
               
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          • Rich Ehli
            Light weight and comfort and not necessarily the same thing. Keep in mind that your ultimate goal is to enjoy your hike (or why do it?). There are trade offs
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 4 2:57 PM
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              Light weight and comfort and not necessarily the same thing. Keep in
              mind that your ultimate goal is to enjoy your hike (or why do it?).
              There are trade offs to consider. None of us are built the same way.
              Depending on your body size, strength, speed and tolerance for carrying
              weight, you will have to decide whether a 2-3 pound weight penalty
              justifies the better load carrying characteristics of some heavier
              packs. I am faced with the same question: I already have enough packs to
              outfit a small scout troop so I am not planning to buy the latest and
              greatest for my JMT hike. My choice will be between a heavier 8-YO Dana
              internal pack and the significantly lighter Gregory Z Pack. Both will
              carry all I need but which one will my shoulders be happier with doing
              an average of 10-14 miles a day. That's a question only I can answer. I
              know the Dana can carry the starting weight of nine days of food better
              than the Z Pack but after a few days, the Z Pack would start to catch
              up to the Dana in terms of comfort and then overtake it.

              Rich
            • Steve Schauer
              We were really happy with our packs, which are not ultralight, nor heavy. We splurged (didn t Bob say, spend the money?) and got Osprey Aether 70 (his) and
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 4 9:38 PM
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                We were really happy with our packs, which are not ultralight, nor heavy. We splurged (didn't Bob say, spend the money?) and got Osprey Aether 70 (his) and Ariel 65(mine). We both agreed this is the most comfortable pack we could imagine. Suspension and a good fit are everything, so definitely get fitted right, and load the pack with your gear so you can tell if it is comfortable for YOU. We also got lightweight down bags, highly compressible. Our packs were about 35lbs after a resupply. Everyone has a "can't do without" item. Ours was a 35mm camera, and tripod-ouch!
                Claire


                --- On Wed, 3/4/09, richfax <richfax@...> wrote:

                > From: richfax <richfax@...>
                > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs
                > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                > Date: Wednesday, March 4, 2009, 11:08 AM
                > Sheehan1962,
                >
                > In my opinion 15 to 30 pounds of food & gear, or less,
                > is all most folks need to safely hike the JMT.   The
                > book "Lightweight Backpacking & Camping" is
                > one of the best guides for learning how to reduce pack
                > weight and will provide you with some simple, practical, and
                > inexpensive ideas to make it happen.  Good luck!
                > http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00070.html
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ________________________________
                > From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 12:22:25 PM
                > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Any thoughts on ultralight
                > packs vs. regular packs
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Sheehan1962,
                > can you cut your weight from 60 pounds to 30. Yes, just
                > spend the money. "realistic for this trail" . . .
                > sure. Just spend the money. Again. take a look at your
                > gear末first your pack, sleeping bag and tent.
                > I went from a 7.5 pound pack to one just about 2 pounds. I
                > went from a 5.5 pound winter bag (that I used year round and
                > roasted) to one that's just under 2 pounds. I went from
                > a 4.5 pound tent to . . . well, I tried one of those almost
                > BIVY size tents and decided that carrying a good size tent
                > is a luxury I can deal with, so bought another 4 pound tent
                > and I love it . . . and all you have to do is SPEND THE
                > CASH.
                > Look at your clothes next. Bet you've got two of
                > everything. You don't need two of everything. I'd
                > say the only thing you really need two pairs of is socks.
                > Everything else can get wet or dirty and you can still hike
                > in it. Look at your jacket. is it down or fleece? I carried
                > too many bulky down jackets over the years and I finally
                > figured it out末spend the money and buy a super
                > light-weight down jacket that will do you fine for the JMT.
                > I bought a MONTBELL U.L. Hoody . . .
                > http://www.trailspace.com/gear/montbell/u.l.-down-inner-parka/
                > . . . .  Amazing down jacket and super light, for about
                > $150. My other down weighs about three or four times as much
                > as also takes up valuable BEAR CANISTER space.
                > I went from sixty-plus to between 35-40 . . . and all I did
                > was spend the money.
                > the other bob
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                > From: sheehan1962@...
                > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 09:13:21 +0000
                > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Any thoughts on ultralight packs
                > vs. regular packs
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >    
                >             It's my first time on the trail and
                > I'm hiking from Happy Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in
                > August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying to cut my
                > carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing
                > if that's at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >      
                >
                >    
                >    
                >    
                >    
                >    
                >    
                >
                >
                >    
                >
                >
                >    
                >    
                > _________________________________________________________________
                > Express your personality in color! Preview and select
                > themes for Hotmailョ.
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                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Roleigh Martin
                I have gotten my base gear (which is the pack and everything inside it, EXCEPT for food and water, but it INCLUDES the bear cannister) down to under 17 pounds.
                Message 7 of 22 , Mar 4 10:18 PM
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                  I have gotten my base gear (which is the pack and everything inside it,
                  EXCEPT for food and water, but it INCLUDES the bear cannister) down to under
                  17 pounds. I have gotten my daily consumables down to 1 pound a day (covers
                  food and toiletries). I did the last 165 miles of the JMT last year and
                  will do the entire JMT this summer. The most I'll be carrying is about 28
                  pounds plus water leaving Muir Trail Ranch if I am not able to get
                  resupplied at Lake Charlotte. I am looking into that option though.

                  I'll be using for my 3rd year out in the High Sierra the pack I like the
                  most, which is the Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone which is a 3 pound pack but it
                  is so comfortable. I did modify the pack by substituting a large belt from
                  Granite Gear from their next-up-the line packs, shown here:
                  http://www.granitegear.com/products/overview/backpacks/light.html -- it has
                  a rigid plastic spine behind the foam and causes the pack to distribute the
                  weight of the pack more around the circumference of my waist rather than all
                  at the back. So everything about my gear is very light except the pack
                  which is so-so light.

                  I tried the Exos 58 pack out but it just was not as comfortable and decided
                  to put up with the extra 9 ounces of weight.

                  My gear list is shown here:
                  http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/profile.html?u=marti124

                  Roleigh


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Adam Bickett
                  Yes! If you at all can, go light! I did the JMT last summer with a 21 pound pack starting weight. I used the Granite Gear Vapor Trail, and it worked very well
                  Message 8 of 22 , Mar 8 9:47 PM
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                    Yes! If you at all can, go light! I did the JMT last summer with a 21 pound
                    pack starting weight. I used the Granite Gear Vapor Trail, and it worked
                    very well for me. I felt bad for the many people I saw carrying ridiculous
                    packs weight over double what they need to... it makes the experience so
                    much more enjoyable when unencumbered by needless weight.

                    On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:13 AM, sheehan1962 <sheehan1962@...> wrote:

                    > It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy Isles to Muir
                    > Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying to cut my carrying
                    > weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if that's at all realistic
                    > for this trail. Any thoughts?
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • romanryder
                    I haven t picked up a bear vault yet, but my pack has been under 8lbs on my recent trips. I started out with junk gear from Wal-Mart and Academy last year and
                    Message 9 of 22 , Mar 9 1:30 AM
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                      I haven't picked up a bear vault yet, but my pack has been under 8lbs on my recent trips. I started out with junk gear from Wal-Mart and Academy last year and worked my way down to 15lbs (with the help of "Lighten Up!: A Complete Handbook for Light and Ultralight Backpacking"). Then I got on backpackinglight.com and cut that weight nearly in half.

                      Here's a link to my normal gear list...
                      http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/7920f9c1a74502d0247666405fe1a62e.pdf



                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sheehan1962" <sheehan1962@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying to cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if that's at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?
                      >
                    • robert shattuck
                      It s a Slow monday, forgive me. . . 8lbs . . . so you re hiking naked, in thongs, sleeping in a space blanket, with a plastic shopping bag to hold the pop
                      Message 10 of 22 , Mar 9 2:09 PM
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                        It's a Slow monday, forgive me. . .
                        "8lbs" . . . so you're hiking naked, in thongs, sleeping in a space blanket, with a plastic shopping bag to hold the pop tarts???? . . . WOW . . . I must go to backpackinglight and check it out. Then I'm going to cut the tongues out of my shoes and trim the bristles on my toothbrush.
                        Oddly, it almost seems like a sin of sorts not to head out into the backcountry with a bit of a burden and bragging rights . . . I carried XX pounds XXX miles and . . . but just ponder the thought for a moment of walking, say, the entire JMT or any other trail with nothing on your back. People out there might look at you as if you were crazy.
                        I was coming down Mather one day, just finishing switch-backs and hitting the straight-away and I see this guy coming towards me and I'm thinking, Ah, a fellow JMTer in need a greeting. He's a long way off, but eventually I figure out that he's in blue jeans, pants and jacket. he's got on a pair of brown timberland boots and a baseball cap. Slung over each shoulder and tucked under his arms are two of those large cowboy canteens��the kind with red plaid on the outside (to go with the plaid lining in his denim jacket) and he's got no backpack of any kind.
                        I get within twenty yards of him and you'd think I had a bible in my hand, and the word of jesus coming out of my mouth (like when I see the mormon boys coming my way, "hello sir, have you . . . ) as the guy makes a wide arc, looks straight ahead and just keeps on going . . . ultra-light . . . even words, a nod, a smile were too heavy for him. (later, a ranger said he was a certified nut, BUT HE HAD A PERMIT)
                        More power to anyone that gets that close to sustaining themselves on almost nothing . . . eight pounds, right on.
                        okay, back to the drudge
                        the-other-bob

                        sparklefart.blogspot.com
                        http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                        From: romanryder@...
                        Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 08:30:03 +0000
                        Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs





















                        I haven't picked up a bear vault yet, but my pack has been under 8lbs on my recent trips. I started out with junk gear from Wal-Mart and Academy last year and worked my way down to 15lbs (with the help of "Lighten Up!: A Complete Handbook for Light and Ultralight Backpacking"). Then I got on backpackinglight.com and cut that weight nearly in half.



                        Here's a link to my normal gear list...

                        http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/7920f9c1a74502d0247666405fe1a62e.pdf



                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sheehan1962" <sheehan1962@...> wrote:

                        >

                        > It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying to cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if that's at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?

                        >






















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                      • John Rogers
                        Robert that was a good one. For me Pop Tarts are too heavy to carry on the JMT. I like to put my dirty underwear in a pot of boiling water, stir for a few
                        Message 11 of 22 , Mar 9 3:04 PM
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                          Robert that was a good one. For me Pop Tarts are too heavy to carry on the JMT. I like to put my dirty underwear in a pot of boiling water, stir for a few minutes, and waa la; soup is on!
                          John.




                          ________________________________
                          From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 2:09:58 PM
                          Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs



                          It's a Slow monday, forgive me. . .
                          "8lbs" . . . so you're hiking naked, in thongs, sleeping in a space blanket,  with a plastic shopping bag to hold the pop tarts???? . . .  WOW . . . I must go to backpackinglight and check it out. Then I'm going to cut the tongues out of my shoes and trim the bristles on my toothbrush.
                          Oddly, it almost seems like a sin of sorts not to head out into the backcountry with a bit of a burden and bragging rights . . . I carried XX pounds XXX miles and . . .  but just ponder the thought for a moment of walking, say, the entire JMT or any other trail with nothing on your back. People out there might look at you as if you were crazy.
                          I was coming down Mather one day, just finishing switch-backs and hitting the straight-away and I see this guy coming towards me and I'm thinking, Ah, a fellow JMTer in need a greeting. He's a long way off, but eventually I figure out that he's in blue jeans, pants and jacket. he's got on a pair of brown timberland boots and a baseball cap. Slung over each shoulder and tucked under his arms are two of those large cowboy canteens末the kind with red plaid on the outside (to go with the plaid lining in his denim jacket) and he's got no backpack of any kind.
                          I get within twenty yards of him and you'd think I had a bible in my hand, and the word of jesus coming out of my mouth (like when I see the mormon boys coming my way, "hello sir, have you . . . ) as the guy makes a wide arc, looks straight ahead and just keeps on going . . . ultra-light . . . even words, a nod, a smile were too heavy for him. (later, a ranger said he was a certified nut, BUT HE HAD A PERMIT)
                          More power to anyone that gets that close to sustaining themselves on almost nothing . . . eight pounds, right on.
                          okay, back to the drudge
                          the-other-bob

                          sparklefart.blogspot.com
                          http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                          From: romanryder@...
                          Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 08:30:03 +0000
                          Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs




















                             
                                      I haven't picked up a bear vault yet, but my pack has been under 8lbs on my recent trips. I started out with junk gear from Wal-Mart and Academy last year and worked my way down to 15lbs (with the help of "Lighten Up!: A Complete Handbook for Light and Ultralight Backpacking"). Then I got on backpackinglight.com and cut that weight nearly in half.



                          Here's a link to my normal gear list...

                          http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/7920f9c1a74502d0247666405fe1a62e.pdf



                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sheehan1962" <sheehan1962@...> wrote:

                          >

                          > It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying to cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if that's at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?

                          >







                               

                             
                             
                             
                             
                             
                             


                             


                             
                             
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                        • robert shattuck
                          Pop Tarts used to be a trail staple for me, as a teen hiker. Suddenly, as I sit here about to relate yet another story, I am hit with the notion of aliens or
                          Message 12 of 22 , Mar 9 4:31 PM
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                            Pop Tarts used to be a trail staple for me, as a teen hiker. Suddenly, as I sit here about to relate yet another story, I am hit with the notion of aliens or devil's triangle or . . . After you pop over Pinchot (just over the hill from mr.Jeans and canteens) and amble down the hill, and then see twin lakes off to your left and down a ways, the trail heads through a bunch of pine trees of some sort, with scattered camp spots, obvious by their (illegal? over 10k?) make-shift fire rings, scattered around . . . I once ambled into this camp, after dark, to find an old gent, priming a stove for hot chocolate. He had an ancient external frame pack with a green canvas sack on it and he was eating pop tarts. He offered me one and it was great, but there was also this moment when I saw a burst of light and for a very real moment, I thought, aliens? MAybe they ate the old guy and inhabited his body? the guy not only had pop tarts, but TANG, and hot chocolate. THIS IS WHAT HE WAS DOING FOR FOOD ON THE TRAIL. he said he was fine. strange things happen around there. beware and by the way, as for the crazy man with the two canteens, the rangers also told me that he had in the two canteens, one of water and the other filled with flour. Hardcore, biscuit-baking, plaid wearing, UL kinda guy.

                            sparklefart.blogspot.com
                            http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                            From: john_rogers68@...
                            Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 15:04:50 -0700
                            Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs





















                            Robert that was a good one. For me Pop Tarts are too heavy to carry on the JMT. I like to put my dirty underwear in a pot of boiling water, stir for a few minutes, and waa la; soup is on!

                            John.



                            ________________________________

                            From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>

                            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com

                            Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 2:09:58 PM

                            Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs



                            It's a Slow monday, forgive me. . .

                            "8lbs" . . . so you're hiking naked, in thongs, sleeping in a space blanket, with a plastic shopping bag to hold the pop tarts???? . . . WOW . . . I must go to backpackinglight and check it out. Then I'm going to cut the tongues out of my shoes and trim the bristles on my toothbrush.

                            Oddly, it almost seems like a sin of sorts not to head out into the backcountry with a bit of a burden and bragging rights . . . I carried XX pounds XXX miles and . . . but just ponder the thought for a moment of walking, say, the entire JMT or any other trail with nothing on your back. People out there might look at you as if you were crazy.

                            I was coming down Mather one day, just finishing switch-backs and hitting the straight-away and I see this guy coming towards me and I'm thinking, Ah, a fellow JMTer in need a greeting. He's a long way off, but eventually I figure out that he's in blue jeans, pants and jacket. he's got on a pair of brown timberland boots and a baseball cap. Slung over each shoulder and tucked under his arms are two of those large cowboy canteens末the kind with red plaid on the outside (to go with the plaid lining in his denim jacket) and he's got no backpack of any kind.

                            I get within twenty yards of him and you'd think I had a bible in my hand, and the word of jesus coming out of my mouth (like when I see the mormon boys coming my way, "hello sir, have you . . . ) as the guy makes a wide arc, looks straight ahead and just keeps on going . . . ultra-light . . . even words, a nod, a smile were too heavy for him. (later, a ranger said he was a certified nut, BUT HE HAD A PERMIT)

                            More power to anyone that gets that close to sustaining themselves on almost nothing . . . eight pounds, right on.

                            okay, back to the drudge

                            the-other-bob



                            sparklefart.blogspot.com

                            http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480



                            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com

                            From: romanryder@...

                            Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 08:30:03 +0000

                            Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs





                            I haven't picked up a bear vault yet, but my pack has been under 8lbs on my recent trips. I started out with junk gear from Wal-Mart and Academy last year and worked my way down to 15lbs (with the help of "Lighten Up!: A Complete Handbook for Light and Ultralight Backpacking"). Then I got on backpackinglight.com and cut that weight nearly in half.



                            Here's a link to my normal gear list...



                            http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/7920f9c1a74502d0247666405fe1a62e.pdf



                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sheehan1962" <sheehan1962@...> wrote:



                            >



                            > It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying to cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if that's at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?



                            >





























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                            Yahoo! Groups Links



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                          • hmdsierra
                            When I first took Pop Tarts it was intended to be a couple of times treat on the trip. Over the years it changed. Now we stagger from our beds stir up the
                            Message 13 of 22 , Mar 9 4:32 PM
                            • 0 Attachment
                              When I first took Pop Tarts it was intended to be a couple of times treat on the trip. Over the years it changed. Now we stagger from our beds stir up the fire put the frying pan on the fire add a bit of margarine and toss in the Pop Tarts. After we eat them I light up my pipe and we figure out what we're having for breakfast.

                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Rogers <john_rogers68@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Robert that was a good one. For me Pop Tarts are too heavy to carry on the JMT. I like to put my dirty underwear in a pot of boiling water, stir for a few minutes, and waa la; soup is on!
                              > John.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                              > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 2:09:58 PM
                              > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > It's a Slow monday, forgive me. . .
                              > "8lbs" . . . so you're hiking naked, in thongs, sleeping in a space blanket, with a plastic shopping bag to hold the pop tarts???? . . . WOW . . . I must go to backpackinglight and check it out. Then I'm going to cut the tongues out of my shoes and trim the bristles on my toothbrush.
                              > Oddly, it almost seems like a sin of sorts not to head out into the backcountry with a bit of a burden and bragging rights . . . I carried XX pounds XXX miles and . . . but just ponder the thought for a moment of walking, say, the entire JMT or any other trail with nothing on your back. People out there might look at you as if you were crazy.
                              > I was coming down Mather one day, just finishing switch-backs and hitting the straight-away and I see this guy coming towards me and I'm thinking, Ah, a fellow JMTer in need a greeting. He's a long way off, but eventually I figure out that he's in blue jeans, pants and jacket. he's got on a pair of brown timberland boots and a baseball cap. Slung over each shoulder and tucked under his arms are two of those large cowboy canteens末the kind with red plaid on the outside (to go with the plaid lining in his denim jacket) and he's got no backpack of any kind.
                              > I get within twenty yards of him and you'd think I had a bible in my hand, and the word of jesus coming out of my mouth (like when I see the mormon boys coming my way, "hello sir, have you . . . ) as the guy makes a wide arc, looks straight ahead and just keeps on going . . . ultra-light . . . even words, a nod, a smile were too heavy for him. (later, a ranger said he was a certified nut, BUT HE HAD A PERMIT)
                              > More power to anyone that gets that close to sustaining themselves on almost nothing . . . eight pounds, right on.
                              > okay, back to the drudge
                              > the-other-bob
                              >
                              > sparklefart.blogspot.com
                              > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                              > From: romanryder@...
                              > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 08:30:03 +0000
                              > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Â Â
                              > Â Â Â Â Â Â I haven't picked up a bear vault yet, but my pack has been under 8lbs on my recent trips. I started out with junk gear from Wal-Mart and Academy last year and worked my way down to 15lbs (with the help of "Lighten Up!: A Complete Handbook for Light and Ultralight Backpacking"). Then I got on backpackinglight.com and cut that weight nearly in half.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Here's a link to my normal gear list...
                              >
                              > http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/7920f9c1a74502d0247666405fe1a62e.pdf
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sheehan1962" <sheehan1962@> wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              > > It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying to cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if that's at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > Â Â Â
                              >
                              > Â Â
                              > Â Â
                              > Â Â Â
                              > Â Â Â
                              > Â Â Â
                              > Â Â Â
                              >
                              >
                              > Â Â Â
                              >
                              >
                              > Â Â Â
                              > Â Â Â
                              > _________________________________________________________________
                              > Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmailï½®.
                              > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • robert shattuck
                              pipe . . . don t get me started on JMT pipe stories. I better go do the errands. sparklefart.blogspot.com
                              Message 14 of 22 , Mar 9 4:37 PM
                              • 0 Attachment
                                "pipe" . . . don't get me started on JMT pipe stories. I better go do the errands.
                                sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                                To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                From: no_reply@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:32:33 +0000
                                Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs





















                                When I first took Pop Tarts it was intended to be a couple of times treat on the trip. Over the years it changed. Now we stagger from our beds stir up the fire put the frying pan on the fire add a bit of margarine and toss in the Pop Tarts. After we eat them I light up my pipe and we figure out what we're having for breakfast.



                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Rogers <john_rogers68@...> wrote:

                                >

                                > Robert that was a good one. For me Pop Tarts are too heavy to carry on the JMT. I like to put my dirty underwear in a pot of boiling water, stir for a few minutes, and waa la; soup is on!

                                > John.

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                > ________________________________

                                > From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>

                                > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com

                                > Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 2:09:58 PM

                                > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                > It's a Slow monday, forgive me. . .

                                > "8lbs" . . . so you're hiking naked, in thongs, sleeping in a space blanket,� with a plastic shopping bag to hold the pop tarts???? . . .� WOW . . . I must go to backpackinglight and check it out. Then I'm going to cut the tongues out of my shoes and trim the bristles on my toothbrush.

                                > Oddly, it almost seems like a sin of sorts not to head out into the backcountry with a bit of a burden and bragging rights . . . I carried XX pounds XXX miles and . . .� but just ponder the thought for a moment of walking, say, the entire JMT or any other trail with nothing on your back. People out there might look at you as if you were crazy.

                                > I was coming down Mather one day, just finishing switch-backs and hitting the straight-away and I see this guy coming towards me and I'm thinking, Ah, a fellow JMTer in need a greeting. He's a long way off, but eventually I figure out that he's in blue jeans, pants and jacket. he's got on a pair of brown timberland boots and a baseball cap. Slung over each shoulder and tucked under his arms are two of those large cowboy canteens���the kind with red plaid on the outside (to go with the plaid lining in his denim jacket) and he's got no backpack of any kind.

                                > I get within twenty yards of him and you'd think I had a bible in my hand, and the word of jesus coming out of my mouth (like when I see the mormon boys coming my way, "hello sir, have you . . . ) as the guy makes a wide arc, looks straight ahead and just keeps on going . . . ultra-light . . . even words, a nod, a smile were too heavy for him. (later, a ranger said he was a certified nut, BUT HE HAD A PERMIT)

                                > More power to anyone that gets that close to sustaining themselves on almost nothing . . . eight pounds, right on.

                                > okay, back to the drudge

                                > the-other-bob

                                >

                                > sparklefart.blogspot.com

                                > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com

                                > From: romanryder@...

                                > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 08:30:03 +0000

                                > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                > � �

                                > � � � � � � I haven't picked up a bear vault yet, but my pack has been under 8lbs on my recent trips. I started out with junk gear from Wal-Mart and Academy last year and worked my way down to 15lbs (with the help of "Lighten Up!: A Complete Handbook for Light and Ultralight Backpacking"). Then I got on backpackinglight.com and cut that weight nearly in half.

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                > Here's a link to my normal gear list...

                                >

                                > http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/7920f9c1a74502d0247666405fe1a62e.pdf

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sheehan1962" <sheehan1962@> wrote:

                                >

                                >>

                                >

                                >> It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying to cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if that's at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?

                                >

                                >>

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                > � � �

                                >

                                > � �

                                > � �

                                > � � �

                                > � � �

                                > � � �

                                > � � �

                                >

                                >

                                > � � �

                                >

                                >

                                > � � �

                                > � � �

                                > __________________________________________________________

                                > Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail���.

                                > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme

                                >

                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                > ------------------------------------

                                >

                                > Yahoo! Groups Links

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                >

                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                >






















                                _________________________________________________________________
                                Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail�.
                                http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme

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                              • hmdsierra
                                When I first took Pop Tarts it was intended to be a couple of times treat on the trip. Over the years it changed. Now we stagger from our beds stir up the
                                Message 15 of 22 , Mar 9 5:39 PM
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  When I first took Pop Tarts it was intended to be a couple of times treat on the trip. Over the years it changed. Now we stagger from our beds stir up the fire put the frying pan on the fire add a bit of margarine and toss in the Pop Tarts. After we eat them I light up my pipe and we figure out what we're having for breakfast.

                                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Rogers <john_rogers68@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Robert that was a good one. For me Pop Tarts are too heavy to carry on the JMT. I like to put my dirty underwear in a pot of boiling water, stir for a few minutes, and waa la; soup is on!
                                  > John.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                                  > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 2:09:58 PM
                                  > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > It's a Slow monday, forgive me. . .
                                  > "8lbs" . . . so you're hiking naked, in thongs, sleeping in a space blanket, with a plastic shopping bag to hold the pop tarts???? . . . WOW . . . I must go to backpackinglight and check it out. Then I'm going to cut the tongues out of my shoes and trim the bristles on my toothbrush.
                                  > Oddly, it almost seems like a sin of sorts not to head out into the backcountry with a bit of a burden and bragging rights . . . I carried XX pounds XXX miles and . . . but just ponder the thought for a moment of walking, say, the entire JMT or any other trail with nothing on your back. People out there might look at you as if you were crazy.
                                  > I was coming down Mather one day, just finishing switch-backs and hitting the straight-away and I see this guy coming towards me and I'm thinking, Ah, a fellow JMTer in need a greeting. He's a long way off, but eventually I figure out that he's in blue jeans, pants and jacket. he's got on a pair of brown timberland boots and a baseball cap. Slung over each shoulder and tucked under his arms are two of those large cowboy canteens末the kind with red plaid on the outside (to go with the plaid lining in his denim jacket) and he's got no backpack of any kind.
                                  > I get within twenty yards of him and you'd think I had a bible in my hand, and the word of jesus coming out of my mouth (like when I see the mormon boys coming my way, "hello sir, have you . . . ) as the guy makes a wide arc, looks straight ahead and just keeps on going . . . ultra-light . . . even words, a nod, a smile were too heavy for him. (later, a ranger said he was a certified nut, BUT HE HAD A PERMIT)
                                  > More power to anyone that gets that close to sustaining themselves on almost nothing . . . eight pounds, right on.
                                  > okay, back to the drudge
                                  > the-other-bob
                                  >
                                  > sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                  > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                  > From: romanryder@...
                                  > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 08:30:03 +0000
                                  > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Â Â
                                  > Â Â Â Â Â Â I haven't picked up a bear vault yet, but my pack has been under 8lbs on my recent trips. I started out with junk gear from Wal-Mart and Academy last year and worked my way down to 15lbs (with the help of "Lighten Up!: A Complete Handbook for Light and Ultralight Backpacking"). Then I got on backpackinglight.com and cut that weight nearly in half.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Here's a link to my normal gear list...
                                  >
                                  > http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/7920f9c1a74502d0247666405fe1a62e.pdf
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sheehan1962" <sheehan1962@> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > > It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying to cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if that's at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Â Â Â
                                  >
                                  > Â Â
                                  > Â Â
                                  > Â Â Â
                                  > Â Â Â
                                  > Â Â Â
                                  > Â Â Â
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Â Â Â
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Â Â Â
                                  > Â Â Â
                                  > _________________________________________________________________
                                  > Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmailï½®.
                                  > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                • Patt
                                  Robert. . .Thanks for  brightening the day.....! ! !      now...what ever happened to : pilot biscuits and squeez cheese?????    revealing my age,.Patt
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Mar 9 6:22 PM
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Robert. . .Thanks for� brightening the day.....! ! !�
                                    �� �now...what ever happened to : pilot biscuits and squeez cheese?????��� revealing my age,.Patt



                                    ��

                                    --- On Mon, 3/9/09, robert shattuck <bobolonius@...> wrote:

                                    From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                                    Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs
                                    To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 4:37 PM

                                    "pipe" . . . don't get me started on JMT pipe stories. I better
                                    go do the errands.
                                    sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                    http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                                    To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                    From: no_reply@yahoogroups.com
                                    Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:32:33 +0000
                                    Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular
                                    packs





















                                    When I first took Pop Tarts it was intended to be a couple of times
                                    treat on the trip. Over the years it changed. Now we stagger from our beds
                                    stir up the fire put the frying pan on the fire add a bit of margarine and toss
                                    in the Pop Tarts. After we eat them I light up my pipe and we figure out what
                                    we're having for breakfast.



                                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Rogers <john_rogers68@...>
                                    wrote:

                                    >

                                    > Robert that was a good one. For me Pop Tarts are too heavy to carry on the
                                    JMT. I like to put my dirty underwear in a pot of boiling water, stir for a few
                                    minutes, and waa la; soup is on!

                                    > John.

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > ________________________________

                                    > From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>

                                    > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com

                                    > Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 2:09:58 PM

                                    > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs.
                                    regular packs

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > It's a Slow monday, forgive me. . .

                                    > "8lbs" . . . so you're hiking naked, in thongs, sleeping in
                                    a space blanket,� with a plastic shopping bag to hold the pop tarts???? . .
                                    .� WOW . . . I must go to backpackinglight and check it out. Then I'm
                                    going to cut the tongues out of my shoes and trim the bristles on my toothbrush.


                                    > Oddly, it almost seems like a sin of sorts not to head out into the
                                    backcountry with a bit of a burden and bragging rights . . . I carried XX pounds
                                    XXX miles and . . .� but just ponder the thought for a moment of walking, say,
                                    the entire JMT or any other trail with nothing on your back. People out there
                                    might look at you as if you were crazy.

                                    > I was coming down Mather one day, just finishing switch-backs and hitting
                                    the straight-away and I see this guy coming towards me and I'm thinking, Ah,
                                    a fellow JMTer in need a greeting. He's a long way off, but eventually I
                                    figure out that he's in blue jeans, pants and jacket. he's got on a pair
                                    of brown timberland boots and a baseball cap. Slung over each shoulder and
                                    tucked under his arms are two of those large cowboy canteens���the kind with
                                    red plaid on the outside (to go with the plaid lining in his denim jacket) and
                                    he's got no backpack of any kind.

                                    > I get within twenty yards of him and you'd think I had a bible in my
                                    hand, and the word of jesus coming out of my mouth (like when I see the mormon
                                    boys coming my way, "hello sir, have you . . . ) as the guy makes a wide
                                    arc, looks straight ahead and just keeps on going . . . ultra-light . . . even
                                    words, a nod, a smile were too heavy for him. (later, a ranger said he was a
                                    certified nut, BUT HE HAD A PERMIT)

                                    > More power to anyone that gets that close to sustaining themselves on
                                    almost nothing . . . eight pounds, right on.

                                    > okay, back to the drudge

                                    > the-other-bob

                                    >

                                    > sparklefart.blogspot.com

                                    > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com

                                    > From: romanryder@...

                                    > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 08:30:03 +0000

                                    > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs.
                                    regular packs

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > � �

                                    > � � � � � � I haven't picked up a bear vault yet, but my
                                    pack has been under 8lbs on my recent trips. I started out with junk gear from
                                    Wal-Mart and Academy last year and worked my way down to 15lbs (with the help of
                                    "Lighten Up!: A Complete Handbook for Light and Ultralight
                                    Backpacking"). Then I got on backpackinglight.com and cut that weight
                                    nearly in half.

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > Here's a link to my normal gear list...

                                    >

                                    >
                                    http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/7920f9c1a74502d0247666405fe1a62e.pdf

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sheehan1962"
                                    <sheehan1962@> wrote:

                                    >

                                    >>

                                    >

                                    >> It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy
                                    Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying to
                                    cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if that's
                                    at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?

                                    >

                                    >>

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > � � �

                                    >

                                    > � �

                                    > � �

                                    > � � �

                                    > � � �

                                    > � � �

                                    > � � �

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > � � �

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > � � �

                                    > � � �

                                    > __________________________________________________________

                                    > Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for
                                    Hotmail���.

                                    >
                                    http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme

                                    >

                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > ------------------------------------

                                    >

                                    > Yahoo! Groups Links

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    >

                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    >






















                                    _________________________________________________________________
                                    Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail�.
                                    http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                    ------------------------------------

                                    Yahoo! Groups Links





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • robert shattuck
                                    Hello Patt, Yup, I remember pilot biscuits from my first whitney summit at nine, but sadly, I did not get the squeeze cheese. Is your cart charged up and ready
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Mar 9 7:18 PM
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hello Patt,
                                      Yup, I remember pilot biscuits from my first whitney summit at nine, but sadly, I did not get the squeeze cheese. Is your cart charged up and ready for the summer?
                                      Bob


                                      sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                      http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                                      > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                      > From: sntrekker@...
                                      > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:22:18 -0700
                                      > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs
                                      >
                                      > Robert. . .Thanks for brightening the day.....! ! !
                                      > now...what ever happened to : pilot biscuits and squeez cheese????? revealing my age,.Patt
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- On Mon, 3/9/09, robert shattuck <bobolonius@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                                      > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs
                                      > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 4:37 PM
                                      >
                                      > "pipe" . . . don't get me started on JMT pipe stories. I better
                                      > go do the errands.
                                      > sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                      > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                      > From: no_reply@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:32:33 +0000
                                      > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular
                                      > packs
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > When I first took Pop Tarts it was intended to be a couple of times
                                      > treat on the trip. Over the years it changed. Now we stagger from our beds
                                      > stir up the fire put the frying pan on the fire add a bit of margarine and toss
                                      > in the Pop Tarts. After we eat them I light up my pipe and we figure out what
                                      > we're having for breakfast.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Rogers <john_rogers68@...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> Robert that was a good one. For me Pop Tarts are too heavy to carry on the
                                      > JMT. I like to put my dirty underwear in a pot of boiling water, stir for a few
                                      > minutes, and waa la; soup is on!
                                      >
                                      >> John.
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> ________________________________
                                      >
                                      >> From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                                      >
                                      >> To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      >> Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 2:09:58 PM
                                      >
                                      >> Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs.
                                      > regular packs
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> It's a Slow monday, forgive me. . .
                                      >
                                      >> "8lbs" . . . so you're hiking naked, in thongs, sleeping in
                                      > a space blanket,� with a plastic shopping bag to hold the pop tarts???? . .
                                      > .� WOW . . . I must go to backpackinglight and check it out. Then I'm
                                      > going to cut the tongues out of my shoes and trim the bristles on my toothbrush.
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >> Oddly, it almost seems like a sin of sorts not to head out into the
                                      > backcountry with a bit of a burden and bragging rights . . . I carried XX pounds
                                      > XXX miles and . . .� but just ponder the thought for a moment of walking, say,
                                      > the entire JMT or any other trail with nothing on your back. People out there
                                      > might look at you as if you were crazy.
                                      >
                                      >> I was coming down Mather one day, just finishing switch-backs and hitting
                                      > the straight-away and I see this guy coming towards me and I'm thinking, Ah,
                                      > a fellow JMTer in need a greeting. He's a long way off, but eventually I
                                      > figure out that he's in blue jeans, pants and jacket. he's got on a pair
                                      > of brown timberland boots and a baseball cap. Slung over each shoulder and
                                      > tucked under his arms are two of those large cowboy canteens���the kind with
                                      > red plaid on the outside (to go with the plaid lining in his denim jacket) and
                                      > he's got no backpack of any kind.
                                      >
                                      >> I get within twenty yards of him and you'd think I had a bible in my
                                      > hand, and the word of jesus coming out of my mouth (like when I see the mormon
                                      > boys coming my way, "hello sir, have you . . . ) as the guy makes a wide
                                      > arc, looks straight ahead and just keeps on going . . . ultra-light . . . even
                                      > words, a nod, a smile were too heavy for him. (later, a ranger said he was a
                                      > certified nut, BUT HE HAD A PERMIT)
                                      >
                                      >> More power to anyone that gets that close to sustaining themselves on
                                      > almost nothing . . . eight pounds, right on.
                                      >
                                      >> okay, back to the drudge
                                      >
                                      >> the-other-bob
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                      >
                                      >> http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      >> From: romanryder@...
                                      >
                                      >> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 08:30:03 +0000
                                      >
                                      >> Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs.
                                      > regular packs
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> � �
                                      >
                                      >> � � � � � � I haven't picked up a bear vault yet, but my
                                      > pack has been under 8lbs on my recent trips. I started out with junk gear from
                                      > Wal-Mart and Academy last year and worked my way down to 15lbs (with the help of
                                      > "Lighten Up!: A Complete Handbook for Light and Ultralight
                                      > Backpacking"). Then I got on backpackinglight.com and cut that weight
                                      > nearly in half.
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> Here's a link to my normal gear list...
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      > http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/7920f9c1a74502d0247666405fe1a62e.pdf
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sheehan1962"
                                      > <sheehan1962@> wrote:
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>> It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy
                                      > Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying to
                                      > cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if that's
                                      > at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> � � �
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> � �
                                      >
                                      >> � �
                                      >
                                      >> � � �
                                      >
                                      >> � � �
                                      >
                                      >> � � �
                                      >
                                      >> � � �
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> � � �
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> � � �
                                      >
                                      >> � � �
                                      >
                                      >> __________________________________________________________
                                      >
                                      >> Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for
                                      > Hotmail���.
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >>
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > _________________________________________________________________
                                      > Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail�.
                                      > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >

                                      _________________________________________________________________
                                      Windows Live�: Life without walls.
                                      http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_032009

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Patt
                                      Robert.....Sorry you missed the squeeze cheese..!!!  Glad someone remembers pilot biscuits. . . . Well can say if the cart is ready as it s probably well
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Mar 9 9:12 PM
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Robert.....Sorry you missed the squeeze cheese..!!!� Glad someone remembers pilot biscuits. . . . Well can' say if the cart is ready as it's probably well snowed in but..� Just finished inventory/work lists...so yes...I'm ready....
                                        ���� to the ? of a solo woman hiker,,,I spent� a lot of weeks solo trail working over the years.... the 1st night or 2 you might be apprehensive but then...go for it....You'll be glad you did..as�expressed by the guys in the previous posts......



                                        �������������������������������� Patt��

                                        --- On Mon, 3/9/09, robert shattuck <bobolonius@...> wrote:

                                        From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                                        Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs
                                        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 7:18 PM

                                        Hello Patt,
                                        Yup, I remember pilot biscuits from my first whitney summit at nine, but sadly,
                                        I did not get the squeeze cheese. Is your cart charged up and ready for the
                                        summer?
                                        Bob


                                        sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                        http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                                        > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        > From: sntrekker@...
                                        > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:22:18 -0700
                                        > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs.
                                        regular packs
                                        >
                                        > Robert. . .Thanks for brightening the day.....! ! !
                                        > now...what ever happened to : pilot biscuits and squeez cheese?????
                                        revealing my age,.Patt
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- On Mon, 3/9/09, robert shattuck <bobolonius@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                                        > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs.
                                        regular packs
                                        > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 4:37 PM
                                        >
                                        > "pipe" . . . don't get me started on JMT pipe stories. I
                                        better
                                        > go do the errands.
                                        > sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                        > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        > From: no_reply@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:32:33 +0000
                                        > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs.
                                        regular
                                        > packs
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > When I first took Pop Tarts it was intended to be a couple of
                                        times
                                        > treat on the trip. Over the years it changed. Now we stagger from our
                                        beds
                                        > stir up the fire put the frying pan on the fire add a bit of margarine and
                                        toss
                                        > in the Pop Tarts. After we eat them I light up my pipe and we figure out
                                        what
                                        > we're having for breakfast.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Rogers
                                        <john_rogers68@...>
                                        > wrote:
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> Robert that was a good one. For me Pop Tarts are too heavy to carry on
                                        the
                                        > JMT. I like to put my dirty underwear in a pot of boiling water, stir for
                                        a few
                                        > minutes, and waa la; soup is on!
                                        >
                                        >> John.
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> ________________________________
                                        >
                                        >> From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                                        >
                                        >> To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        >> Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 2:09:58 PM
                                        >
                                        >> Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs
                                        vs.
                                        > regular packs
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> It's a Slow monday, forgive me. . .
                                        >
                                        >> "8lbs" . . . so you're hiking naked, in thongs, sleeping
                                        in
                                        > a space blanket,� with a plastic shopping bag to hold the pop tarts????
                                        . .
                                        > .� WOW . . . I must go to backpackinglight and check it out. Then
                                        I'm
                                        > going to cut the tongues out of my shoes and trim the bristles on my
                                        toothbrush.
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >> Oddly, it almost seems like a sin of sorts not to head out into the
                                        > backcountry with a bit of a burden and bragging rights . . . I carried XX
                                        pounds
                                        > XXX miles and . . .� but just ponder the thought for a moment of
                                        walking, say,
                                        > the entire JMT or any other trail with nothing on your back. People out
                                        there
                                        > might look at you as if you were crazy.
                                        >
                                        >> I was coming down Mather one day, just finishing switch-backs and
                                        hitting
                                        > the straight-away and I see this guy coming towards me and I'm
                                        thinking, Ah,
                                        > a fellow JMTer in need a greeting. He's a long way off, but eventually
                                        I
                                        > figure out that he's in blue jeans, pants and jacket. he's got on
                                        a pair
                                        > of brown timberland boots and a baseball cap. Slung over each shoulder and
                                        > tucked under his arms are two of those large cowboy canteens���the kind
                                        with
                                        > red plaid on the outside (to go with the plaid lining in his denim jacket)
                                        and
                                        > he's got no backpack of any kind.
                                        >
                                        >> I get within twenty yards of him and you'd think I had a bible in
                                        my
                                        > hand, and the word of jesus coming out of my mouth (like when I see the
                                        mormon
                                        > boys coming my way, "hello sir, have you . . . ) as the guy makes a
                                        wide
                                        > arc, looks straight ahead and just keeps on going . . . ultra-light . . .
                                        even
                                        > words, a nod, a smile were too heavy for him. (later, a ranger said he was
                                        a
                                        > certified nut, BUT HE HAD A PERMIT)
                                        >
                                        >> More power to anyone that gets that close to sustaining themselves on
                                        > almost nothing . . . eight pounds, right on.
                                        >
                                        >> okay, back to the drudge
                                        >
                                        >> the-other-bob
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                        >
                                        >> http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        >> From: romanryder@...
                                        >
                                        >> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 08:30:03 +0000
                                        >
                                        >> Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs.
                                        > regular packs
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> � �
                                        >
                                        >> � � � � � � I haven't picked up a bear vault yet, but
                                        my
                                        > pack has been under 8lbs on my recent trips. I started out with junk gear
                                        from
                                        > Wal-Mart and Academy last year and worked my way down to 15lbs (with the
                                        help of
                                        > "Lighten Up!: A Complete Handbook for Light and Ultralight
                                        > Backpacking"). Then I got on backpackinglight.com and cut that weight
                                        > nearly in half.
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> Here's a link to my normal gear list...
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/7920f9c1a74502d0247666405fe1a62e.pdf
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sheehan1962"
                                        > <sheehan1962@> wrote:
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>> It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy
                                        > Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying
                                        to
                                        > cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if
                                        that's
                                        > at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
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                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> � � �
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> � �
                                        >
                                        >> � �
                                        >
                                        >> � � �
                                        >
                                        >> � � �
                                        >
                                        >> � � �
                                        >
                                        >> � � �
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> � � �
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> � � �
                                        >
                                        >> � � �
                                        >
                                        >> __________________________________________________________
                                        >
                                        >> Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for
                                        > Hotmail���.
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                                        >
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                                        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >>
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                                        >>
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                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> ------------------------------------
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                        >
                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >>
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                                        >>
                                        >
                                        >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                                        > _________________________________________________________________
                                        > Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for
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                                        > ------------------------------------
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                                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
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                                      • Steve Schauer
                                        Have you ever had saloon pilot crackers by Diamond Bakery? sometimes you can find them at an Asian market or at Long s Drugstore. They are really thick and
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Mar 9 10:51 PM
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Have you ever had "saloon pilot" crackers by Diamond Bakery? sometimes you can find them at an Asian market or at Long's Drugstore. They are really thick and won't break easily.
                                          Claire


                                          --- On Mon, 3/9/09, robert shattuck <bobolonius@...> wrote:

                                          > From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                                          > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs
                                          > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                          > Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 7:18 PM
                                          > Hello Patt,
                                          > Yup, I remember pilot biscuits from my first whitney summit
                                          > at nine, but sadly, I did not get the squeeze cheese. Is
                                          > your cart charged up and ready for the summer?
                                          > Bob
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                          > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > From: sntrekker@...
                                          > > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:22:18 -0700
                                          > > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on
                                          > ultralight packs vs. regular packs
                                          > >
                                          > > Robert. . .Thanks for brightening the day.....! ! !
                                          > > now...what ever happened to : pilot biscuits and
                                          > squeez cheese????? revealing my age,.Patt
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- On Mon, 3/9/09, robert shattuck
                                          > <bobolonius@...> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > > From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                                          > > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on
                                          > ultralight packs vs. regular packs
                                          > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 4:37 PM
                                          > >
                                          > > "pipe" . . . don't get me started on JMT
                                          > pipe stories. I better
                                          > > go do the errands.
                                          > > sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                          > >
                                          > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > From: no_reply@yahoogroups.com
                                          > > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:32:33 +0000
                                          > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on
                                          > ultralight packs vs. regular
                                          > > packs
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > When I first took Pop Tarts it was
                                          > intended to be a couple of times
                                          > > treat on the trip. Over the years it changed. Now we
                                          > stagger from our beds
                                          > > stir up the fire put the frying pan on the fire add a
                                          > bit of margarine and toss
                                          > > in the Pop Tarts. After we eat them I light up my
                                          > pipe and we figure out what
                                          > > we're having for breakfast.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Rogers
                                          > <john_rogers68@...>
                                          > > wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> Robert that was a good one. For me Pop Tarts are
                                          > too heavy to carry on the
                                          > > JMT. I like to put my dirty underwear in a pot of
                                          > boiling water, stir for a few
                                          > > minutes, and waa la; soup is on!
                                          > >
                                          > >> John.
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> ________________________________
                                          > >
                                          > >> From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                                          > >
                                          > >> To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                          > >
                                          > >> Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 2:09:58 PM
                                          > >
                                          > >> Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on
                                          > ultralight packs vs.
                                          > > regular packs
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> It's a Slow monday, forgive me. . .
                                          > >
                                          > >> "8lbs" . . . so you're hiking naked,
                                          > in thongs, sleeping in
                                          > > a space blanket, with a plastic shopping bag to
                                          > hold the pop tarts???? . .
                                          > > . WOW . . . I must go to backpackinglight and check
                                          > it out. Then I'm
                                          > > going to cut the tongues out of my shoes and trim the
                                          > bristles on my toothbrush.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >> Oddly, it almost seems like a sin of sorts not to
                                          > head out into the
                                          > > backcountry with a bit of a burden and bragging rights
                                          > . . . I carried XX pounds
                                          > > XXX miles and . . . but just ponder the thought for
                                          > a moment of walking, say,
                                          > > the entire JMT or any other trail with nothing on your
                                          > back. People out there
                                          > > might look at you as if you were crazy.
                                          > >
                                          > >> I was coming down Mather one day, just finishing
                                          > switch-backs and hitting
                                          > > the straight-away and I see this guy coming towards me
                                          > and I'm thinking, Ah,
                                          > > a fellow JMTer in need a greeting. He's a long way
                                          > off, but eventually I
                                          > > figure out that he's in blue jeans, pants and
                                          > jacket. he's got on a pair
                                          > > of brown timberland boots and a baseball cap. Slung
                                          > over each shoulder and
                                          > > tucked under his arms are two of those large cowboy
                                          > canteens末the kind with
                                          > > red plaid on the outside (to go with the plaid lining
                                          > in his denim jacket) and
                                          > > he's got no backpack of any kind.
                                          > >
                                          > >> I get within twenty yards of him and you'd
                                          > think I had a bible in my
                                          > > hand, and the word of jesus coming out of my mouth
                                          > (like when I see the mormon
                                          > > boys coming my way, "hello sir, have you . . . )
                                          > as the guy makes a wide
                                          > > arc, looks straight ahead and just keeps on going . .
                                          > . ultra-light . . . even
                                          > > words, a nod, a smile were too heavy for him. (later,
                                          > a ranger said he was a
                                          > > certified nut, BUT HE HAD A PERMIT)
                                          > >
                                          > >> More power to anyone that gets that close to
                                          > sustaining themselves on
                                          > > almost nothing . . . eight pounds, right on.
                                          > >
                                          > >> okay, back to the drudge
                                          > >
                                          > >> the-other-bob
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                          > >
                                          > >> From: romanryder@...
                                          > >
                                          > >> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 08:30:03 +0000
                                          > >
                                          > >> Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on
                                          > ultralight packs vs.
                                          > > regular packs
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> Â Â
                                          > >
                                          > >> Â Â Â Â Â Â I haven't picked up a
                                          > bear vault yet, but my
                                          > > pack has been under 8lbs on my recent trips. I started
                                          > out with junk gear from
                                          > > Wal-Mart and Academy last year and worked my way down
                                          > to 15lbs (with the help of
                                          > > "Lighten Up!: A Complete Handbook for Light and
                                          > Ultralight
                                          > > Backpacking"). Then I got on backpackinglight.com
                                          > and cut that weight
                                          > > nearly in half.
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> Here's a link to my normal gear list...
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/7920f9c1a74502d0247666405fe1a62e.pdf
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com,
                                          > "sheehan1962"
                                          > > <sheehan1962@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>> It's my first time on the trail and
                                          > I'm hiking from Happy
                                          > > Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or
                                          > so, and I'm trying to
                                          > > cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30,
                                          > not knowing if that's
                                          > > at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> Â Â Â
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> Â Â
                                          > >
                                          > >> Â Â
                                          > >
                                          > >> Â Â Â
                                          > >
                                          > >> Â Â Â
                                          > >
                                          > >> Â Â Â
                                          > >
                                          > >> Â Â Â
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> Â Â Â
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> Â Â Â
                                          > >
                                          > >> Â Â Â
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > __________________________________________________________
                                          > >
                                          > >> Express your personality in color! Preview and
                                          > select themes for
                                          > > Hotmailï½®.
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                          > removed]
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> ------------------------------------
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
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                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been
                                          > removed]
                                          > >
                                          > >>
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > _________________________________________________________________
                                          > > Express your personality in color! Preview and select
                                          > themes for Hotmail®.
                                          > >
                                          > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ------------------------------------
                                          > >
                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > ------------------------------------
                                          > >
                                          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                          > _________________________________________________________________
                                          > Windows Live™: Life without walls.
                                          > http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_032009
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
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                                          > ------------------------------------
                                          >
                                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                        • Derek Peters
                                          We called this stuff Hard Tack up in Canada when I used to go out hunting with my uncles. Saw a picture on some website where they had a display that had and
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Mar 10 10:35 AM
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            We called this stuff Hard Tack up in Canada when I used to go out hunting with my uncles. Saw a picture on some website where they had a display that had and example of hard tack from 1852 still intact. Remember having to smash it with a rock and dip in my powered milk to soften it enough to eat. Pop Tarts are infinitely better!!
                                            Derek




                                            ________________________________
                                            From: Patt <sntrekker@...>
                                            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 9:12:29 PM
                                            Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs

                                            Robert.....Sorry you missed the squeeze cheese..!!! Glad someone remembers pilot biscuits. . . . Well can' say if the cart is ready as it's probably well snowed in but.. Just finished inventory/work lists...so yes...I'm ready....
                                            to the ? of a solo woman hiker,,,I spent a lot of weeks solo trail working over the years.... the 1st night or 2 you might be apprehensive but then...go for it....You'll be glad you did..as expressed by the guys in the previous posts......



                                            Patt

                                            --- On Mon, 3/9/09, robert shattuck <bobolonius@...> wrote:

                                            From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                                            Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs. regular packs
                                            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 7:18 PM

                                            Hello Patt,
                                            Yup, I remember pilot biscuits from my first whitney summit at nine, but sadly,
                                            I did not get the squeeze cheese. Is your cart charged up and ready for the
                                            summer?
                                            Bob


                                            sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                            http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480





                                            > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            > From: sntrekker@...
                                            > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 18:22:18 -0700
                                            > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs.
                                            regular packs
                                            >
                                            > Robert. . .Thanks for brightening the day.....! ! !
                                            > now...what ever happened to : pilot biscuits and squeez cheese?????
                                            revealing my age,.Patt
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- On Mon, 3/9/09, robert shattuck <bobolonius@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                                            > Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs.
                                            regular packs
                                            > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Date: Monday, March 9, 2009, 4:37 PM
                                            >
                                            > "pipe" . . . don't get me started on JMT pipe stories. I
                                            better
                                            > go do the errands.
                                            > sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                            > http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            > From: no_reply@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 23:32:33 +0000
                                            > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs.
                                            regular
                                            > packs
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > When I first took Pop Tarts it was intended to be a couple of
                                            times
                                            > treat on the trip. Over the years it changed. Now we stagger from our
                                            beds
                                            > stir up the fire put the frying pan on the fire add a bit of margarine and
                                            toss
                                            > in the Pop Tarts. After we eat them I light up my pipe and we figure out
                                            what
                                            > we're having for breakfast.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Rogers
                                            <john_rogers68@...>
                                            > wrote:
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >> Robert that was a good one. For me Pop Tarts are too heavy to carry on
                                            the
                                            > JMT. I like to put my dirty underwear in a pot of boiling water, stir for
                                            a few
                                            > minutes, and waa la; soup is on!
                                            >
                                            >> John.
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >> ________________________________
                                            >
                                            >> From: robert shattuck <bobolonius@...>
                                            >
                                            >> To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            >
                                            >> Sent: Monday, March 9, 2009 2:09:58 PM
                                            >
                                            >> Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs
                                            vs.
                                            > regular packs
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >> It's a Slow monday, forgive me. . .
                                            >
                                            >> "8lbs" . . . so you're hiking naked, in thongs, sleeping
                                            in
                                            > a space blanket, with a plastic shopping bag to hold the pop tarts????
                                            . .
                                            > . WOW . . . I must go to backpackinglight and check it out. Then
                                            I'm
                                            > going to cut the tongues out of my shoes and trim the bristles on my
                                            toothbrush.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >> Oddly, it almost seems like a sin of sorts not to head out into the
                                            > backcountry with a bit of a burden and bragging rights . . . I carried XX
                                            pounds
                                            > XXX miles and . . . but just ponder the thought for a moment of
                                            walking, say,
                                            > the entire JMT or any other trail with nothing on your back. People out
                                            there
                                            > might look at you as if you were crazy.
                                            >
                                            >> I was coming down Mather one day, just finishing switch-backs and
                                            hitting
                                            > the straight-away and I see this guy coming towards me and I'm
                                            thinking, Ah,
                                            > a fellow JMTer in need a greeting. He's a long way off, but eventually
                                            I
                                            > figure out that he's in blue jeans, pants and jacket. he's got on
                                            a pair
                                            > of brown timberland boots and a baseball cap. Slung over each shoulder and
                                            > tucked under his arms are two of those large cowboy canteens末the kind
                                            with
                                            > red plaid on the outside (to go with the plaid lining in his denim jacket)
                                            and
                                            > he's got no backpack of any kind.
                                            >
                                            >> I get within twenty yards of him and you'd think I had a bible in
                                            my
                                            > hand, and the word of jesus coming out of my mouth (like when I see the
                                            mormon
                                            > boys coming my way, "hello sir, have you . . . ) as the guy makes a
                                            wide
                                            > arc, looks straight ahead and just keeps on going . . . ultra-light . . .
                                            even
                                            > words, a nod, a smile were too heavy for him. (later, a ranger said he was
                                            a
                                            > certified nut, BUT HE HAD A PERMIT)
                                            >
                                            >> More power to anyone that gets that close to sustaining themselves on
                                            > almost nothing . . . eight pounds, right on.
                                            >
                                            >> okay, back to the drudge
                                            >
                                            >> the-other-bob
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >> sparklefart.blogspot.com
                                            >
                                            >> http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >>
                                            >
                                            >> To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            >
                                            >> From: romanryder@...
                                            >
                                            >> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2009 08:30:03 +0000
                                            >
                                            >> Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Any thoughts on ultralight packs vs.
                                            > regular packs
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                                            >> Â Â
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                                            >> Â Â Â Â Â Â I haven't picked up a bear vault yet, but
                                            my
                                            > pack has been under 8lbs on my recent trips. I started out with junk gear
                                            from
                                            > Wal-Mart and Academy last year and worked my way down to 15lbs (with the
                                            help of
                                            > "Lighten Up!: A Complete Handbook for Light and Ultralight
                                            > Backpacking"). Then I got on backpackinglight.com and cut that weight
                                            > nearly in half.
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                                            >> Here's a link to my normal gear list...
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                                            http://www.backpackinglight.com/backpackinglight/forums/gear_lists/7920f9c1a74502d0247666405fe1a62e.pdf
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                                            >> --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "sheehan1962"
                                            > <sheehan1962@> wrote:
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                                            >>>
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                                            >>> It's my first time on the trail and I'm hiking from Happy
                                            > Isles to Muir Trail Ranch in August over 14 days or so, and I'm trying
                                            to
                                            > cut my carrying weight from 60 lbs or so to under 30, not knowing if
                                            that's
                                            > at all realistic for this trail. Any thoughts?
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                                            >> ------------------------------------
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