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MTR Price Increase

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  • Robert
    It looks like the per bucket price has made a BIG jump from $55 to $65 dollars this summer at Muir Trail Ranch...ouch!
    Message 1 of 20 , Jan 3, 2014
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      It looks like the per bucket price has made a BIG jump from $55 to $65 dollars this summer at Muir Trail Ranch...ouch!
    • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
      They ve have cornered the market, so they can set any price they want. It s a pity they feel they have to do it though. Ken.
      Message 2 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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        They've have cornered the market, so they can set any price they want. It's a pity they feel they have to do it though.

        Ken.

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
        >
        > It looks like the per bucket price has made a BIG jump from $55 to $65 dollars this summer at Muir Trail Ranch...ouch!
        >
      • ravi_jmt2013
        Looks like a tent cabin for single occupancy has increased from $140 to $175...
        Message 3 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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          Looks like a tent cabin for single occupancy has increased from $140 to $175... 

        • Roleigh Martin
          I do not think their increased price is one that enables them to do anything other than break even. What they were doing before was close to working for
          Message 4 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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            I do not think their increased price is one that enables them to do anything other than break even.  What they were doing before was close to working for nothing.  Here is what your money buys (how much work it takes to get that bucket to you):

            1.  They pickup the bucket at the Post Office - load it to a truck
            2.  They drive it to Lake Florence -- not a short drive -- forget length -- somewhat between 2-4 hour drive
            3.  They unload the bucket from the truck, load it to the ferry
            4.  They drive the ferry across Lake Florence
            5.  The unload the bucket from the boat, and now load the bucket onto a WW II style jeep truck that drives over extremely rugged roads -- to the point a lot of continuous maintenance is done on that old style truck (I've seem them working on the truck).
            6.  They drive the 4 hours on the rugged road -- have no idea how long it takes, maybe 45 minutes
            7.  They unload the bucket from this jeep truck
            8.  They carry the bucket and before they put it in the brick outdoor storage room, they have to update their computer indicating where the bucket is stored.
            9.   They send you a confirmation email
            10.  Meanwhile, they are daily cleaning up the hiker work area where hikers unload their barrels and pack into their bear canisters, so that the area does not attract bears at night -- lots of work in doing this every night and morning.
            11.  When you pick up the bucket, they update their computer again and get your bucket.
            12.  But your bucket is not burnable, they have to repeat the process backwards, steps 8-1 to get rid of the empty bucket -- not to mention dealing with whatever items you decide not to hike on with (see point 10).

            For all that work, the amount they are paying does not give them a profit.  They're earning every penny of it.

            Put yourself in their shoes.  If someone gave you $65 would you do all of the above work?

            Furthermore, they sometimes get up to 150 buckets a day -- they can not do 150 buckets in one trip, so they have to repeat the above steps many times a day in that situation.

            Roleigh

            -------------------------------------------------
            Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
            _



            On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 9:18 AM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
             

            They've have cornered the market, so they can set any price they want. It's a pity they feel they have to do it though.

            Ken.



            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
            >
            > It looks like the per bucket price has made a BIG jump from $55 to $65 dollars this summer at Muir Trail Ranch...ouch!
            >


          • Roleigh Martin
            I do not remember single occupancy rate being the same as double occupancy per cabin/tent rate ever, except when in a large group such as 7, they ve made
            Message 5 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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              I do not remember single occupancy rate being the same as double occupancy per cabin/tent rate ever, except when in a large group such as 7, they've made exceptions then so that each of the 7 pay single occupancy rate.

              -------------------------------------------------
              Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
              _



              On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 10:23 AM, <ravi@...> wrote:
               

              Looks like a tent cabin for single occupancy has increased from $140 to $175... 


            • ravi_jmt2013
              Last year the single occupancy rate for a tent cabin was definitely $140. I thought that was a good deal since it included very good meals, use of the
              Message 6 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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                Last year the single occupancy rate for a tent cabin was definitely $140.  I thought that was a good deal since it included very good meals, use of the showers, laundry, hot tubs, and fifteen minutes on the slow internet connection. $175 is still not too bad. Ultimately the market will decide if they have overreached on the price increases. I would likely stay again although probably for one night rather than two.  Or maybe try out VVR.  I guess I'll have to decide on the PCT in 2015.

              • Dittli-Goethals
                No, not for one bucket. But my truck would hold say 50 buckets. So for $3250, I d do it no problem! Better yet, let us figure the math for the summer. Out of
                Message 7 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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                  No, not for one bucket. But my truck would hold say 50 buckets. So for $3250, I'd do it no problem! Better yet, let us figure the math for the summer. Out of the thousands of people that hike the JMT how many re-supply at MTR? I don't know. Say 1000 so I can do the math in my head; $65,000 over 4 months. Not profitable? hmmm


                  On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 7:28 AM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                   

                  I do not think their increased price is one that enables them to do anything other than break even.  What they were doing before was close to working for nothing.  Here is what your money buys (how much work it takes to get that bucket to you):

                  1.  They pickup the bucket at the Post Office - load it to a truck
                  2.  They drive it to Lake Florence -- not a short drive -- forget length -- somewhat between 2-4 hour drive
                  3.  They unload the bucket from the truck, load it to the ferry
                  4.  They drive the ferry across Lake Florence
                  5.  The unload the bucket from the boat, and now load the bucket onto a WW II style jeep truck that drives over extremely rugged roads -- to the point a lot of continuous maintenance is done on that old style truck (I've seem them working on the truck).
                  6.  They drive the 4 hours on the rugged road -- have no idea how long it takes, maybe 45 minutes
                  7.  They unload the bucket from this jeep truck
                  8.  They carry the bucket and before they put it in the brick outdoor storage room, they have to update their computer indicating where the bucket is stored.
                  9.   They send you a confirmation email
                  10.  Meanwhile, they are daily cleaning up the hiker work area where hikers unload their barrels and pack into their bear canisters, so that the area does not attract bears at night -- lots of work in doing this every night and morning.
                  11.  When you pick up the bucket, they update their computer again and get your bucket.
                  12.  But your bucket is not burnable, they have to repeat the process backwards, steps 8-1 to get rid of the empty bucket -- not to mention dealing with whatever items you decide not to hike on with (see point 10).

                  For all that work, the amount they are paying does not give them a profit.  They're earning every penny of it.

                  Put yourself in their shoes.  If someone gave you $65 would you do all of the above work?

                  Furthermore, they sometimes get up to 150 buckets a day -- they can not do 150 buckets in one trip, so they have to repeat the above steps many times a day in that situation.

                  Roleigh

                  -------------------------------------------------
                  Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                  _



                  On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 9:18 AM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                   

                  They've have cornered the market, so they can set any price they want. It's a pity they feel they have to do it though.

                  Ken.



                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > It looks like the per bucket price has made a BIG jump from $55 to $65 dollars this summer at Muir Trail Ranch...ouch!
                  >





                  --
                  John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                  John Dittli Photography
                  www.johndittli.com
                  760-934-3505 

                  Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                  2010  IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner
                • outhiking_55
                  I d think that you also have to consider that they need to make enough money to make a living (and pay the people that work for them) for the whole year,
                  Message 8 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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                    I'd think that you also have to consider that they need to make enough money to make a living (and pay the people that work for them) for the whole year, otherwise why try to keep the place open?
                  • Roleigh Martin
                    This is interesting John that you re from the world of the NPS, it is the NPS (and NFS) rules/laws that prevent competitors setting up business alongside the
                    Message 9 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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                      This is interesting John that you're from the world of the NPS, it is the NPS (and NFS) rules/laws that prevent competitors setting up business alongside the JMT; my understanding is that MTR exists only because of a grandfather clause.  

                      In  upstate NY in a much larger park (the Adriondack State Park), this problem would not not exist, but true, the wilderness is not as vast (minus roads) despite the Adirondack State Park being "the largest publicly protected area in the contiguous United States, Adirondack Park Land Use and Development Plan Map - click to see larger mapgreater in size than Yellowstone, Everglades, Glacier, and Grand Canyon National Park combined. The boundary of the Park encompasses approximately 6 million acres, nearly half of which belongs to all the people of New York State and is constitutionally protected to remain “forever wild” forest preserve. The remaining half of the Park is private land which includes settlements, farms, timber lands, businesses, homes, and camps."

                      So the price one pays for the extreme remote wilderness of the JMT/PCT is that businesses and roads are not allowed nearby (such as MTR, which I believe is only there because of a grandfather clause).  (Is that right, John?)

                      I agree with your math and argument John.  It would be interesting to see their books.  They definitely have to pay far more than minimum wage for their help because they're there 24x7 since they can't go home at night.

                      Still the principle of the market and profit, is that it is a reward for a voluntary transaction where there is an exchange of value sought by both parties.  And true, there is the maxim, "what the market will bear" -- and in this case, such is aided by the hikers desire (via the NPS/NFS rules-laws and public support) to keep the wilderness "business free except for what has been grandfathered in" so as to preserve the remote wilderness experience.
                       
                      By the way, there is an alternative if say perhaps 12 hikers who are going to meet at MTR area of the trail are going to happenstance be there on the same day to arrange for packers to bring in good.  At a certain price point, packers can match or beat the $65 rate if the pack train is large enough.  A real hassle to do that, but we obtained a price of $70 per head last year at Woods Creek with a headcount of 10 (3-4 groups, each hiking their own pace, none camping together).

                      So MTR is price competitive still with packer arrangement.

                      Roleigh

                      -------------------------------------------------
                      Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                      _



                      On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 10:49 AM, <animalfarm99@...> wrote:
                       

                      I'd think that you also have to consider that they need to make enough money to make a living (and pay the people that work for them) for the whole year, otherwise why try to keep the place open?


                    • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                      Blurring the lines? Maybe Roleigh gets a piece of the action, he is clearly an advocate. ;-) I m of the opinion that commercial companies can speak for
                      Message 10 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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                        Blurring the lines?

                        Maybe Roleigh gets a piece of the action, he is clearly an advocate. ;-)

                        I'm of the opinion that commercial companies can speak for themselves.

                        Ken.

                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > No, not for one bucket. But my truck would hold say 50 buckets. So for
                        > $3250, I'd do it no problem! Better yet, let us figure the math for the
                        > summer. Out of the thousands of people that hike the JMT how many re-supply
                        > at MTR? I don't know. Say 1000 so I can do the math in my head; $65,000
                        > over 4 months. Not profitable? hmmm
                        >
                        >
                        > On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 7:28 AM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I do not think their increased price is one that enables them to do
                        > > anything other than break even. What they were doing before was close to
                        > > working for nothing. Here is what your money buys (how much work it takes
                        > > to get that bucket to you):
                        > >
                        > > 1. They pickup the bucket at the Post Office - load it to a truck
                        > > 2. They drive it to Lake Florence -- not a short drive -- forget length
                        > > -- somewhat between 2-4 hour drive
                        > > 3. They unload the bucket from the truck, load it to the ferry
                        > > 4. They drive the ferry across Lake Florence
                        > > 5. The unload the bucket from the boat, and now load the bucket onto a WW
                        > > II style jeep truck that drives over extremely rugged roads -- to the point
                        > > a lot of continuous maintenance is done on that old style truck (I've seem
                        > > them working on the truck).
                        > > 6. They drive the 4 hours on the rugged road -- have no idea how long it
                        > > takes, maybe 45 minutes
                        > > 7. They unload the bucket from this jeep truck
                        > > 8. They carry the bucket and before they put it in the brick outdoor
                        > > storage room, they have to update their computer indicating where the
                        > > bucket is stored.
                        > > 9. They send you a confirmation email
                        > > 10. Meanwhile, they are daily cleaning up the hiker work area where
                        > > hikers unload their barrels and pack into their bear canisters, so that the
                        > > area does not attract bears at night -- lots of work in doing this every
                        > > night and morning.
                        > > 11. When you pick up the bucket, they update their computer again and get
                        > > your bucket.
                        > > 12. But your bucket is not burnable, they have to repeat the process
                        > > backwards, steps 8-1 to get rid of the empty bucket -- not to mention
                        > > dealing with whatever items you decide not to hike on with (see point 10).
                        > >
                        > > For all that work, the amount they are paying does not give them a profit.
                        > > They're earning every penny of it.
                        > >
                        > > Put yourself in their shoes. If someone gave you $65 would you do all of
                        > > the above work?
                        > >
                        > > Furthermore, they sometimes get up to 150 buckets a day -- they can not do
                        > > 150 buckets in one trip, so they have to repeat the above steps many times
                        > > a day in that situation.
                        > >
                        > > Roleigh
                        > >
                        > > -------------------------------------------------
                        > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)<https://plus.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
                        > > _
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 9:18 AM, kennethjessett@... <
                        > > kenjessett@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> They've have cornered the market, so they can set any price they want.
                        > >> It's a pity they feel they have to do it though.
                        > >>
                        > >> Ken.
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >> --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                        > >> >
                        > >> > It looks like the per bucket price has made a BIG jump from $55 to $65
                        > >> dollars this summer at Muir Trail Ranch...ouch!
                        > >> >
                        > >>
                        > >>
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                        > John Dittli Photography
                        > www.johndittli.com
                        > 760-934-3505
                        >
                        > *Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail*
                        > *2010 IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner*
                        > http://johndittli.com/site/content/view/57/48/
                        >
                      • Robert
                        Yeah Ken, if VVR is selling or going out of business, and not doing resupply anymore, than I guess we have two choices: get a second mortgage and use the
                        Message 11 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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                          Yeah Ken, if VVR is selling or going out of business, and not doing resupply anymore, than I guess we have two choices: get a second mortgage and use the ' hooved locusts' , or fork over the $65 + shipping for MTR!

                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@..." <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > They've have cornered the market, so they can set any price they want. It's a pity they feel they have to do it though.
                          >
                          > Ken.
                          >
                          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > It looks like the per bucket price has made a BIG jump from $55 to $65 dollars this summer at Muir Trail Ranch...ouch!
                          > >
                          >
                        • Roleigh Martin
                          Ken, No, I just like point-counterpoint discussions especially so that people appreciate the multiple dimensions involved. I used to love being on the high
                          Message 12 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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                            Ken,

                            No, I just like point-counterpoint discussions especially so that people appreciate the multiple dimensions involved.  I used to love being on the high school debate team.  Most of these vendors do not follow these postings.  Patt used to years ago but she's been quiet on this board for years.  I think she's retired.

                            Roleigh

                            -------------------------------------------------
                            Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                            _



                            On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 11:30 AM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                             

                            Blurring the lines?

                            Maybe Roleigh gets a piece of the action, he is clearly an advocate. ;-)

                            I'm of the opinion that commercial companies can speak for themselves.

                            Ken.



                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > No, not for one bucket. But my truck would hold say 50 buckets. So for
                            > $3250, I'd do it no problem! Better yet, let us figure the math for the
                            > summer. Out of the thousands of people that hike the JMT how many re-supply
                            > at MTR? I don't know. Say 1000 so I can do the math in my head; $65,000
                            > over 4 months. Not profitable? hmmm
                            >
                            >
                            > On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 7:28 AM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > I do not think their increased price is one that enables them to do
                            > > anything other than break even. What they were doing before was close to
                            > > working for nothing. Here is what your money buys (how much work it takes
                            > > to get that bucket to you):
                            > >
                            > > 1. They pickup the bucket at the Post Office - load it to a truck
                            > > 2. They drive it to Lake Florence -- not a short drive -- forget length
                            > > -- somewhat between 2-4 hour drive
                            > > 3. They unload the bucket from the truck, load it to the ferry
                            > > 4. They drive the ferry across Lake Florence
                            > > 5. The unload the bucket from the boat, and now load the bucket onto a WW
                            > > II style jeep truck that drives over extremely rugged roads -- to the point
                            > > a lot of continuous maintenance is done on that old style truck (I've seem
                            > > them working on the truck).
                            > > 6. They drive the 4 hours on the rugged road -- have no idea how long it
                            > > takes, maybe 45 minutes
                            > > 7. They unload the bucket from this jeep truck
                            > > 8. They carry the bucket and before they put it in the brick outdoor
                            > > storage room, they have to update their computer indicating where the
                            > > bucket is stored.
                            > > 9. They send you a confirmation email
                            > > 10. Meanwhile, they are daily cleaning up the hiker work area where
                            > > hikers unload their barrels and pack into their bear canisters, so that the
                            > > area does not attract bears at night -- lots of work in doing this every
                            > > night and morning.
                            > > 11. When you pick up the bucket, they update their computer again and get
                            > > your bucket.
                            > > 12. But your bucket is not burnable, they have to repeat the process
                            > > backwards, steps 8-1 to get rid of the empty bucket -- not to mention
                            > > dealing with whatever items you decide not to hike on with (see point 10).
                            > >
                            > > For all that work, the amount they are paying does not give them a profit.
                            > > They're earning every penny of it.
                            > >
                            > > Put yourself in their shoes. If someone gave you $65 would you do all of
                            > > the above work?
                            > >
                            > > Furthermore, they sometimes get up to 150 buckets a day -- they can not do
                            > > 150 buckets in one trip, so they have to repeat the above steps many times
                            > > a day in that situation.
                            > >
                            > > Roleigh
                            > >
                            > > -------------------------------------------------
                            > > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)<https://plus.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
                            > > _

                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 9:18 AM, kennethjessett@... <
                            > > kenjessett@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> They've have cornered the market, so they can set any price they want.
                            > >> It's a pity they feel they have to do it though.
                            > >>
                            > >> Ken.
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >> --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                            > >> >
                            > >> > It looks like the per bucket price has made a BIG jump from $55 to $65
                            > >> dollars this summer at Muir Trail Ranch...ouch!
                            > >> >
                            > >>
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                            > John Dittli Photography
                            > www.johndittli.com
                            > 760-934-3505
                            >
                            > *Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail*
                            > *2010 IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner*
                            > http://johndittli.com/site/content/view/57/48/
                            >


                          • John Ladd
                            On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 8:30 AM, kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                            Message 13 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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                              On Sat, Jan 4, 2014 at 8:30 AM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                              Maybe Roleigh gets a piece of the action, he is clearly an advocate. ;-)

                              I am a big MTR fan as well. The Hurley family (now in the 4th generation) has been supporting hikers since the 1950s. If they make a living at it, that's fine with me. I suspect it's not a great living, but even if it was, that's also OK with me. 

                              I had a long talk with Karla Hurley once (daughter of the initial founders) as we happened to walk together from MTR to the ferry and it was clear that their real money comes from the big corporate groups who book the place for a week at a time. Karla's Dad, whose off-season job was as a Dallas symphony musician, was a friend of John Ford's so they got Hollywood business. I suspect our presence doesn't exactly encourage that crowd.
                            • johndittli
                              Don t get me wrong, I did the math for the sake of discussion. I m indifferent to MTR as I have never used them (I arrange for my own resupplies from the
                              Message 14 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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                                Don't get me wrong, I did the math for the sake of discussion. I'm indifferent to MTR as I have never used them (I arrange for my own resupplies from the eastside which I wholly understand not everyone can do).


                                I think it's nice of them to offer hikers this service, and since it is a private company on private land, they can do as they please and charge as they please.


                                To answer some of Roleigh's questions. As stated above, I believe MTR is a private inholding and thereby under no constraints of the Forest Service. I'm guessing they must have a special use permit that allows them to operate some of their concessions such as stock use, on federal land. 


                                The inholding is not surrounded by Wilderness so they can drive to it. Because of the established infrastructure on private land, it would be very hard to compete on the surrounding public land, such is their unique advantage.


                                As far as vendors set up along the JMT, yes, it is indeed the Wilderness Act (Federal Government) that restricts this.

                              • debrabrownbear
                                Last year we had to bail out at VVR, and never picked up our two resupply buckets at MTR. Because we had sent them Priority Mail, MTR returned them to us for
                                Message 15 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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                                  Last year we had to bail out at VVR, and never picked up our two resupply buckets at MTR. Because we had sent them Priority Mail, MTR returned them to us for free. I really appreciated that service, as one of the buckets had a bear canister in it, and we had batteries and other expensive items in them besides two weeks of food for two people.Debra
                                • Chip
                                  There is a third choice hike out on one of the side trails and go into town to their Post Office or grocery store. I ll pay the price and have it delivered to
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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                                    There is a third choice hike out on one of the side trails and go into town to their Post Office or grocery store. I'll pay the price and have it delivered to me near the trail.

                                    Chip
                                  • Robert
                                    I m picking option #4 this summer....skipping MTR, saving my cash for gear, and packing the six days of food I need from Reds Meadow to Whitney Portal;) !
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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                                      I'm picking option #4 this summer....skipping MTR, saving my cash for gear, and packing the six days of food I need from Reds Meadow to Whitney Portal;) !

                                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Chip <cencir@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > There is a third choice hike out on one of the side trails and go into town to their Post Office or grocery store. I'll pay the price and have it delivered to me near the trail.
                                      >
                                      > Chip
                                      >
                                    • Robert
                                      Speaking of third choice, has anyone heard if VVR is sold, out of business, or operating and for sale?
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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                                        Speaking of third choice, has anyone heard if VVR is sold, out of business, or operating and for sale?

                                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Chip <cencir@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > There is a third choice hike out on one of the side trails and go into town to their Post Office or grocery store. I'll pay the price and have it delivered to me near the trail.
                                        >
                                        > Chip
                                        >
                                      • Joe MacLeish
                                        I emailed with Jim a few weeks ago. Not sold then and not expected to be sold by summer but... Open and doing business for 2014. He expected 2-3 years to get
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Jan 4, 2014
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                                          I emailed with Jim a few weeks ago.  Not sold then and not expected to be sold by summer but... Open and doing business for 2014.  He expected 2-3 years to get a deal completed.

                                           

                                          From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert
                                          Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 6:52 PM
                                          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: MTR Price Increase

                                           

                                           

                                          Speaking of third choice, has anyone heard if VVR is sold, out of business, or operating and for sale?

                                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Chip <cencir@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > There is a third choice hike out on one of the side trails and go into town to their Post Office or grocery store. I'll pay the price and have it delivered to me near the trail.
                                          >
                                          > Chip
                                          >

                                        • Robert
                                          Thanks Joe! I just got an e mail back this morning from Jim stating that he will indeed be open this summer. I may do a reroute over Goodale Pass and the Bear
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Jan 5, 2014
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Thanks Joe! I just got an e mail back this morning from Jim stating that he will indeed be open this summer. I may do a reroute over Goodale Pass and the Bear Creek Trail to use them this year.

                                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Joe MacLeish" <jmacleish@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I emailed with Jim a few weeks ago. Not sold then and not expected to be
                                            > sold by summer but... Open and doing business for 2014. He expected 2-3
                                            > years to get a deal completed.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com]
                                            > On Behalf Of Robert
                                            > Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 6:52 PM
                                            > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: MTR Price Increase
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Speaking of third choice, has anyone heard if VVR is sold, out of business,
                                            > or operating and for sale?
                                            >
                                            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Chip <cencir@> wrote:
                                            > >
                                            > > There is a third choice hike out on one of the side trails and go into
                                            > town to their Post Office or grocery store. I'll pay the price and have it
                                            > delivered to me near the trail.
                                            > >
                                            > > Chip
                                            > >
                                            >
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