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Help planning a July hike

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  • daryl.dutrow
    I am planning a backpacking trip between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow on the John Muir Trail in July, 2014. After a 3-4 day hike between these trailheads,
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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      I am planning a backpacking trip between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow on the John Muir Trail in July, 2014. 

      After a 3-4 day hike between these trailheads, I want to add either a 2-day hike or two single hikes from either of these trailheads.  Ideally, we would go on a loop trail.  What suggestions do you have for each trailhead?

      Are there any stream crossings that will be a problem in July between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow?   Are we talking wet feet, up to our knees, or truly hazardous stream crossings? 

      Do we really need to have crampons to hike this area in July?

      Does waiting to start the hike on July 19 instead of July 6 make a significant difference in terms of the above?

      Where do you suggest we camp when we are at Reds Meadow? 

      Do you have any suggestions for interesting places to eat and have a brew in the area when we are off the trail?  We will spend parts of a couple days at or between Tuolumne Meadows/Lee Vining and Reds Meadow.

      I will be bringing a group of up to 15 from Baltimore. I may have trouble getting that many reservations for the Tuolumne Meadows trailhead. None of the trailheads at Reds Meadow/Devil’s Postpile allows 15 permits, but can I combine permits for JMT north of Devil’s Postpile, Minaret Lakes, and Fern Lake to get my 15 permits?  I think they all start from the same location. 

      My group has hiked Katahdin, the White Mountains, and the Smoky Mountains, but this is our first trip West.  Thanks for any suggestions that you can give.

      Daryl from Baltimore

    • Deborah Rhoton
      I did this exact hike in August. Hopefully I can answer some of your questions. There are no stream crossings in this section to worry about. Mammoth Lakes is
      Message 2 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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        I did this exact hike in August. Hopefully I can answer some of your questions. 

         There are no stream crossings in this section to worry about. 

         Mammoth Lakes is a great town with lots to offer pre/post hike with good/easy public transportation. 

        There is a backpackers campground available at Red's. 

        Hope this helps!

        Deb

        Sent from my iPhone

        On Dec 30, 2013, at 11:39 AM, <daryl.dutrow@...> wrote:

         

        I am planning a backpacking trip between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow on the John Muir Trail in July, 2014. 

        After a 3-4 day hike between these trailheads, I want to add either a 2-day hike or two single hikes from either of these trailheads.  Ideally, we would go on a loop trail.  What suggestions do you have for each trailhead?

        Are there any stream crossings that will be a problem in July between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow?   Are we talking wet feet, up to our knees, or truly hazardous stream crossings? 

        Do we really need to have crampons to hike this area in July?

        Does waiting to start the hike on July 19 instead of July 6 make a significant difference in terms of the above?

        Where do you suggest we camp when we are at Reds Meadow? 

        Do you have any suggestions for interesting places to eat and have a brew in the area when we are off the trail?  We will spend parts of a couple days at or between Tuolumne Meadows/Lee Vining and Reds Meadow.

        I will be bringing a group of up to 15 from Baltimore. I may have trouble getting that many reservations for the Tuolumne Meadows trailhead. None of the trailheads at Reds Meadow/Devil’s Postpile allows 15 permits, but can I combine permits for JMT north of Devil’s Postpile, Minaret Lakes, and Fern Lake to get my 15 permits?  I think they all start from the same location. 

        My group has hiked Katahdin, the White Mountains, and the Smoky Mountains, but this is our first trip West.  Thanks for any suggestions that you can give.

        Daryl from Baltimore

      • Larry Beck
        Daryl, I tried to combine permits once from Devil s post-pile. One group of 6 was supposed to leave the next day and catch up with the other 6 at Minaret
        Message 3 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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          Daryl,

          I tried to combine permits once from Devil's post-pile. One group of 6 was supposed to leave the next day and catch up with the other 6 at Minaret Lakes. The plan was for the first group to camp in the backpackers camp in Red's Meadows. This "camp" is just a car camping site that allows you to rent a spot for $20 but you can cram 4-5 tents in these spots.

          The point I am making is this: reservation.gov allowed me to book the two overlapping permits but when I showed up at the ranger station in Mammoth Lakes they would not issue the permits to me since they were both in my name and were overlapping.

          If you do get two separate permits, make sure they're in different names.

           
          Larry
          From: "daryl.dutrow@..." <daryl.dutrow@...>
          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 9:39 AM
          Subject: [John Muir Trail] Help planning a July hike
           
          I am planning a backpacking trip between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow on the John Muir Trail in July, 2014. 
          After a 3-4 day hike between these trailheads, I want to add either a 2-day hike or two single hikes from either of these trailheads.  Ideally, we would go on a loop trail.  What suggestions do you have for each trailhead?
          Are there any stream crossings that will be a problem in July between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow?   Are we talking wet feet, up to our knees, or truly hazardous stream crossings? 
          Do we really need to have crampons to hike this area in July?
          Does waiting to start the hike on July 19 instead of July 6 make a significant difference in terms of the above?
          Where do you suggest we camp when we are at Reds Meadow? 
          Do you have any suggestions for interesting places to eat and have a brew in the area when we are off the trail?  We will spend parts of a couple days at or between Tuolumne Meadows/Lee Vining and Reds Meadow.
          I will be bringing a group of up to 15 from Baltimore. I may have trouble getting that many reservations for the Tuolumne Meadows trailhead. None of the trailheads at Reds Meadow/Devil’s Postpile allows 15 permits, but can I combine permits for JMT north of Devil’s Postpile, Minaret Lakes, and Fern Lake to get my 15 permits?  I think they all start from the same location. 
          My group has hiked Katahdin, the White Mountains, and the Smoky Mountains, but this is our first trip West.  Thanks for any suggestions that you can give.
          Daryl from Baltimore
        • ravi_jmt2013
          Where do you suggest we camp when we are at Reds Meadow? There is a campground at Red s Meadow which has a backpacker section but I prefer the National Park
          Message 4 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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            "Where do you suggest we camp when we are at Reds Meadow? "

            There is a campground at Red's Meadow which has a backpacker section but I prefer the National Park Service campground at Devil's Postpile.  It is smaller and split into two loops and was not noisy when I was there.  First come, first served but I got there late in the afternoon on the Friday of Labor Day weekend and there were still a few empty sites.  $14 per site is cheaper than the $20 at Red's which I believe even those in the backpacker camp must pay.  Downside is that there is no store at the campground, although there is a ranger station and pay phone with a shuttle bus stop at the front of the campground to take you to Red's if desired.  I ended up at the Postpile campground kind of by accident. I overshot the last legal campsite in the Wenk guidebook and suddenly I was at the Postpile boundary.  Luckily there were sites at the NPS camp.  It was actually nice to wander around the postpile using this as a base camp before continuing on the next day.
          • robert shattuck
            Daryl, There are several detours in the area between Donahue Pass and Reds, but I might suggest that you skip staying in reds--go there, eat drink, shower, but
            Message 5 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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              Daryl, 

              There are several detours in the area between Donahue Pass and Reds, but I might suggest that you skip staying in reds--go there, eat drink, shower, but don't stay in the BC there. Get back on the JMT and head to Crater Meadow for the night. It's a very pleasant two hours further on. Next day you could go all the way to Duck Lake, spend the night and catch the local shuttle back into mammoth, then probably spend a night in mammoth before taking the YARTS back to your car in TM. 

              If you spend any time in Lee Vining you might want to get your group out to Mono Lake and certainly, if you have the time--a day---drive out to the ghost town of Bodie. 

              As for LV, if you can book it, get a room on the El Mono Motel. Sweet spot. Good coffee, people. 

              You'll no doubt encounter two significant (sounds easier than "raging")
              Crossings above Lyell Canyon. There's the crossing at the meadow there, which ought to be easily 15-20 yards of cold fast fun. Then another 20 minutes or less you are hitting the other crossing which might or might not allow you to fall off some rocks .... Go left if the trail crossing. 

              I should also mention that the canyon itself---that lovely, flat eight or so miles will no doubt have plenty of soggy crossings, nothing deep, but plenty of water bleeding into the meadow. Long day of wet feet. Again , more socks than you need, bring 'em.

              Other side of Donahue can be tricky, especially if you get lost in the snow. You might end up having to make some deeeeep cold crossings, but hopefully, the trail will find you and you'll have the luxury of a few logs to cross. 

              Crampons, probably not, but snowshoes, maybe. It would be great at this time to say, "hell yes, you need snow gear"  but unless we get more snow, you'd be advised to just have good gaiters, extra socks and a good solid kick step. Nothing too hazardous about either side of Donahue unless again, you get off course--been there, done that. 

              Bob Shattuck JMTx13

              Sent from my iPhone

              On Dec 30, 2013, at 9:39 AM, daryl.dutrow@... wrote:

               

              I am planning a backpacking trip between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow on the John Muir Trail in July, 2014. 

              After a 3-4 day hike between these trailheads, I want to add either a 2-day hike or two single hikes from either of these trailheads.  Ideally, we would go on a loop trail.  What suggestions do you have for each trailhead?

              Are there any stream crossings that will be a problem in July between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow?   Are we talking wet feet, up to our knees, or truly hazardous stream crossings? 

              Do we really need to have crampons to hike this area in July?

              Does waiting to start the hike on July 19 instead of July 6 make a significant difference in terms of the above?

              Where do you suggest we camp when we are at Reds Meadow? 

              Do you have any suggestions for interesting places to eat and have a brew in the area when we are off the trail?  We will spend parts of a couple days at or between Tuolumne Meadows/Lee Vining and Reds Meadow.

              I will be bringing a group of up to 15 from Baltimore. I may have trouble getting that many reservations for the Tuolumne Meadows trailhead. None of the trailheads at Reds Meadow/Devil’s Postpile allows 15 permits, but can I combine permits for JMT north of Devil’s Postpile, Minaret Lakes, and Fern Lake to get my 15 permits?  I think they all start from the same location. 

              My group has hiked Katahdin, the White Mountains, and the Smoky Mountains, but this is our first trip West.  Thanks for any suggestions that you can give.

              Daryl from Baltimore

            • Robert
              1- it will probably be easier to score permits from Reds Meadows to TM due to the popularity of TM as a trailhead. Those permits enter into a daily min-lottery
              Message 6 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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                1- it will probably be easier to score permits from Reds Meadows to TM due to the popularity of TM as a trailhead. Those permits enter into a daily min-lottery system on the faxed-in permit requests for your selected days. I don't know what the reservable quota is for TM, but 15 people may be pushing it?
                2- Mammoth Lakes has some great eateries and places to get micro-brews.
                3- Too early to tell on stream crossings yet, but as of now, we are having the driest winter since 1976-77. If the trend continues, you won't have any snow to worry about. The only stream crossing that usually presents any problems is the outlet of the tarn/small lake north of Donohue Pass. Shoes off normally, but no big deal.
                4- There really is only one place for backpackers to camp in Reds a Meadow, in the crowded backpackers camp section. I like to avoid it personally as it is crowded, and noisy, but YMMV.

                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <daryl.dutrow@...> wrote:
                >
                > I am planning a backpacking trip between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow on the John Muir Trail in July, 2014.
                > After a 3-4 day hike between these trailheads, I want to add either a 2-day hike or two single hikes from either of these trailheads. Ideally, we would go on a loop trail. What suggestions do you have for each trailhead?
                > Are there any stream crossings that will be a problem in July between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow? Are we talking wet feet, up to our knees, or truly hazardous stream crossings?
                > Do we really need to have crampons to hike this area in July?
                > Does waiting to start the hike on July 19 instead of July 6 make a significant difference in terms of the above?
                > Where do you suggest we camp when we are at Reds Meadow?
                > Do you have any suggestions for interesting places to eat and have a brew in the area when we are off the trail? We will spend parts of a couple days at or between Tuolumne Meadows/Lee Vining and Reds Meadow.
                > I will be bringing a group of up to 15 from Baltimore. I may have trouble getting that many reservations for the Tuolumne Meadows trailhead. None of the trailheads at Reds Meadow/Devil’s Postpile allows 15 permits, but can I combine permits for JMT north of Devil’s Postpile, Minaret Lakes, and Fern Lake to get my 15 permits? I think they all start from the same location.
                > My group has hiked Katahdin, the White Mountains, and the Smoky Mountains, but this is our first trip West. Thanks for any suggestions that you can give.
                > Daryl from Baltimore
                >
              • robert shattuck
                There are no stream crossings in this...to worry about. Deborah, let s just say that in July of probably even a bad snow year, there will be a few wet and
                Message 7 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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                  "There are no stream crossings in this...to worry about. 

                  Deborah, let's just say that in July of probably even a bad snow year, there will be a few wet and wild crossings between TM and Reds.

                  Bob Shattuck :)

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Dec 30, 2013, at 10:08 AM, "Deborah Rhoton" <deborahrhoton@...> wrote:

                   

                  I did this exact hike in August. Hopefully I can answer some of your questions. 

                   There are no stream crossings in this section to worry about. 

                   Mammoth Lakes is a great town with lots to offer pre/post hike with good/easy public transportation. 

                  There is a backpackers campground available at Red's. 

                  Hope this helps!

                  Deb

                  Sent from my iPhone

                  On Dec 30, 2013, at 11:39 AM, <daryl.dutrow@...> wrote:

                   

                  I am planning a backpacking trip between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow on the John Muir Trail in July, 2014. 

                  After a 3-4 day hike between these trailheads, I want to add either a 2-day hike or two single hikes from either of these trailheads.  Ideally, we would go on a loop trail.  What suggestions do you have for each trailhead?

                  Are there any stream crossings that will be a problem in July between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow?   Are we talking wet feet, up to our knees, or truly hazardous stream crossings? 

                  Do we really need to have crampons to hike this area in July?

                  Does waiting to start the hike on July 19 instead of July 6 make a significant difference in terms of the above?

                  Where do you suggest we camp when we are at Reds Meadow? 

                  Do you have any suggestions for interesting places to eat and have a brew in the area when we are off the trail?  We will spend parts of a couple days at or between Tuolumne Meadows/Lee Vining and Reds Meadow.

                  I will be bringing a group of up to 15 from Baltimore. I may have trouble getting that many reservations for the Tuolumne Meadows trailhead. None of the trailheads at Reds Meadow/Devil’s Postpile allows 15 permits, but can I combine permits for JMT north of Devil’s Postpile, Minaret Lakes, and Fern Lake to get my 15 permits?  I think they all start from the same location. 

                  My group has hiked Katahdin, the White Mountains, and the Smoky Mountains, but this is our first trip West.  Thanks for any suggestions that you can give.

                  Daryl from Baltimore

                • Joe MacLeish
                  Bob: I have done both of my JMTs in July SOBO and do not remember any significant crossings between Tuolumne and Red s. Yes some mushy spots but 15-20 yards
                  Message 8 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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                    Bob:

                    I have done both of my JMTs in July SOBO and do not remember any significant crossings between Tuolumne and Red's.  Yes some mushy spots but 15-20 yards  and or deep?  I was there in July of 2011 for the big snow year.  I vaguely remember a dryish stretch and heading down to VVR got hairy.  There was/is a crossing at 1000 Island lake ?  Well maybe it will be all new for me again in July of 2014.

                    I just reviewed my pictures and there were a lot of snow bridges so maybe a there were some streams under there I didn't see.

                    Joe

                     

                    From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robert shattuck
                    Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:27 AM
                    To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Help planning a July hike

                     

                     

                    Daryl, 

                     

                    There are several detours in the area between Donahue Pass and Reds, but I might suggest that you skip staying in reds--go there, eat drink, shower, but don't stay in the BC there. Get back on the JMT and head to Crater Meadow for the night. It's a very pleasant two hours further on. Next day you could go all the way to Duck Lake, spend the night and catch the local shuttle back into mammoth, then probably spend a night in mammoth before taking the YARTS back to your car in TM. 

                     

                    If you spend any time in Lee Vining you might want to get your group out to Mono Lake and certainly, if you have the time--a day---drive out to the ghost town of Bodie. 

                     

                    As for LV, if you can book it, get a room on the El Mono Motel. Sweet spot. Good coffee, people. 

                     

                    You'll no doubt encounter two significant (sounds easier than "raging")

                    Crossings above Lyell Canyon. There's the crossing at the meadow there, which ought to be easily 15-20 yards of cold fast fun. Then another 20 minutes or less you are hitting the other crossing which might or might not allow you to fall off some rocks .... Go left if the trail crossing. 

                     

                    I should also mention that the canyon itself---that lovely, flat eight or so miles will no doubt have plenty of soggy crossings, nothing deep, but plenty of water bleeding into the meadow. Long day of wet feet. Again , more socks than you need, bring 'em.

                     

                    Other side of Donahue can be tricky, especially if you get lost in the snow. You might end up having to make some deeeeep cold crossings, but hopefully, the trail will find you and you'll have the luxury of a few logs to cross. 

                     

                    Crampons, probably not, but snowshoes, maybe. It would be great at this time to say, "hell yes, you need snow gear"  but unless we get more snow, you'd be advised to just have good gaiters, extra socks and a good solid kick step. Nothing too hazardous about either side of Donahue unless again, you get off course--been there, done that. 

                     

                    Bob Shattuck JMTx13


                    Sent from my iPhone


                    On Dec 30, 2013, at 9:39 AM, daryl.dutrow@... wrote:

                     

                    I am planning a backpacking trip between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow on the John Muir Trail in July, 2014. 

                    After a 3-4 day hike between these trailheads, I want to add either a 2-day hike or two single hikes from either of these trailheads.  Ideally, we would go on a loop trail.  What suggestions do you have for each trailhead?

                    Are there any stream crossings that will be a problem in July between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow?   Are we talking wet feet, up to our knees, or truly hazardous stream crossings? 

                    Do we really need to have crampons to hike this area in July?

                    Does waiting to start the hike on July 19 instead of July 6 make a significant difference in terms of the above?

                    Where do you suggest we camp when we are at Reds Meadow? 

                    Do you have any suggestions for interesting places to eat and have a brew in the area when we are off the trail?  We will spend parts of a couple days at or between Tuolumne Meadows/Lee Vining and Reds Meadow.

                    I will be bringing a group of up to 15 from Baltimore. I may have trouble getting that many reservations for the Tuolumne Meadows trailhead. None of the trailheads at Reds Meadow/Devil’s Postpile allows 15 permits, but can I combine permits for JMT north of Devil’s Postpile, Minaret Lakes, and Fern Lake to get my 15 permits?  I think they all start from the same location. 

                    My group has hiked Katahdin, the White Mountains, and the Smoky Mountains, but this is our first trip West.  Thanks for any suggestions that you can give.

                    Daryl from Baltimore

                  • robert shattuck
                    Joe, Maybe I m over-stating it, maybe I am a water-crossing wimp, but aside from all the mushy meadow slogging one might have to do in July, there are a few
                    Message 9 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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                      Joe, 

                      Maybe I'm over-stating it, maybe I am a water-crossing wimp, but aside from all the mushy meadow slogging one might have to do in July, there are a few crossings to deal with going up the north side of Donahue. 

                      Fifteen, twenty minutes after the Lyell Fork bridge there's the meadow and in late August it can be either a rock hop if you so choose, or if you're like me and in for a cool foot bath whenever, you wade in, in your Teva and it's a few yards across. 

                      If you've ever crossed Evolution, it comes to mind that you might think you're in a shallow spot, but then next thing you know . . . well, same thing here, but you won't get swept down with the current, just dunked. 

                      Once you get across, in a perfect late season with no snow and some energy in the tank, you can hustle up the four or five long, short,short, short, long switch-backs and you're up there at the tarn and the next crossing before you head up to the summit of Donahue. Note that within these few SB's there's also two small crossings, that in the summer are nothing more than maybe wet feet, but again, in the spring with a lot of water coming down . . . 

                      I try to never under-estimate water . . . 

                      Yes, in a good early july snow year this crossing might just be nothing but a snow bridge, but usually, the trail puts you right at a series of boulders, which in late August are prominent and dry and with your trekking poles in hand and your balance in place, you can get across without getting wet. Of course, I've seen enough people slip and fall in, either up to the their knees or . . . they take a bath. 

                      If there's a lot of water, even going downstream twenty or so yards can still be tricky, but doable––I've been there when there's so much water that the main hopping rocks that connect the trail are almost underwater––this is when this crossing can be fun. 



                      Bob JMTx13

                      http://www.summitpost.org/plans/view_activity.php?post_id=6480




                      To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                      From: jmacleish@...
                      Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2013 12:51:10 -0800
                      Subject: RE: [John Muir Trail] Help planning a July hike

                       

                      Bob:

                      I have done both of my JMTs in July SOBO and do not remember any significant crossings between Tuolumne and Red's.  Yes some mushy spots but 15-20 yards  and or deep?  I was there in July of 2011 for the big snow year.  I vaguely remember a dryish stretch and heading down to VVR got hairy.  There was/is a crossing at 1000 Island lake ?  Well maybe it will be all new for me again in July of 2014.

                      I just reviewed my pictures and there were a lot of snow bridges so maybe a there were some streams under there I didn't see.

                      Joe

                       

                      From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of robert shattuck
                      Sent: Monday, December 30, 2013 10:27 AM
                      To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Help planning a July hike

                       

                       

                      Daryl, 

                       

                      There are several detours in the area between Donahue Pass and Reds, but I might suggest that you skip staying in reds--go there, eat drink, shower, but don't stay in the BC there. Get back on the JMT and head to Crater Meadow for the night. It's a very pleasant two hours further on. Next day you could go all the way to Duck Lake, spend the night and catch the local shuttle back into mammoth, then probably spend a night in mammoth before taking the YARTS back to your car in TM. 

                       

                      If you spend any time in Lee Vining you might want to get your group out to Mono Lake and certainly, if you have the time--a day---drive out to the ghost town of Bodie. 

                       

                      As for LV, if you can book it, get a room on the El Mono Motel. Sweet spot. Good coffee, people. 

                       

                      You'll no doubt encounter two significant (sounds easier than "raging")

                      Crossings above Lyell Canyon. There's the crossing at the meadow there, which ought to be easily 15-20 yards of cold fast fun. Then another 20 minutes or less you are hitting the other crossing which might or might not allow you to fall off some rocks .... Go left if the trail crossing. 

                       

                      I should also mention that the canyon itself---that lovely, flat eight or so miles will no doubt have plenty of soggy crossings, nothing deep, but plenty of water bleeding into the meadow. Long day of wet feet. Again , more socks than you need, bring 'em.

                       

                      Other side of Donahue can be tricky, especially if you get lost in the snow. You might end up having to make some deeeeep cold crossings, but hopefully, the trail will find you and you'll have the luxury of a few logs to cross. 

                       

                      Crampons, probably not, but snowshoes, maybe. It would be great at this time to say, "hell yes, you need snow gear"  but unless we get more snow, you'd be advised to just have good gaiters, extra socks and a good solid kick step. Nothing too hazardous about either side of Donahue unless again, you get off course--been there, done that. 

                       

                      Bob Shattuck JMTx13


                      Sent from my iPhone


                      On Dec 30, 2013, at 9:39 AM, daryl.dutrow@... wrote:

                       

                      I am planning a backpacking trip between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow on the John Muir Trail in July, 2014. 

                      After a 3-4 day hike between these trailheads, I want to add either a 2-day hike or two single hikes from either of these trailheads.  Ideally, we would go on a loop trail.  What suggestions do you have for each trailhead?

                      Are there any stream crossings that will be a problem in July between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow?   Are we talking wet feet, up to our knees, or truly hazardous stream crossings? 

                      Do we really need to have crampons to hike this area in July?

                      Does waiting to start the hike on July 19 instead of July 6 make a significant difference in terms of the above?

                      Where do you suggest we camp when we are at Reds Meadow? 

                      Do you have any suggestions for interesting places to eat and have a brew in the area when we are off the trail?  We will spend parts of a couple days at or between Tuolumne Meadows/Lee Vining and Reds Meadow.

                      I will be bringing a group of up to 15 from Baltimore. I may have trouble getting that many reservations for the Tuolumne Meadows trailhead. None of the trailheads at Reds Meadow/Devil’s Postpile allows 15 permits, but can I combine permits for JMT north of Devil’s Postpile, Minaret Lakes, and Fern Lake to get my 15 permits?  I think they all start from the same location. 

                      My group has hiked Katahdin, the White Mountains, and the Smoky Mountains, but this is our first trip West.  Thanks for any suggestions that you can give.

                      Daryl from Baltimore


                    • Carolsteveyoung
                      Sounds like a big group. I did that stretch with family of 5 back in 1999 and we loved it. Rest day at Devils Postpile then on to Mt W. July 19 will be much
                      Message 10 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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                        Sounds like a big group. I did that stretch with family of 5 back in 1999 and we loved it. Rest day at Devils Postpile then on to Mt W. 

                        July 19 will be much better than early July. 

                        Try to sleep at altitude for a night or two before the hike starts. 1000 ft per night is the rule of thumb for acclimating to altitude. You'll enjoy it more with fewer headaches. 

                        We ate at the small cafe at Reds Meadow. Also small store there at least back then. 

                        Have a great trip. 

                        Steve Young
                        Geneva IL

                        On Dec 30, 2013, at 10:39 AM, <daryl.dutrow@...> wrote:

                         

                        I am planning a backpacking trip between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow on the John Muir Trail in July, 2014. 

                        After a 3-4 day hike between these trailheads, I want to add either a 2-day hike or two single hikes from either of these trailheads.  Ideally, we would go on a loop trail.  What suggestions do you have for each trailhead?

                        Are there any stream crossings that will be a problem in July between Tuolumne Meadows and Reds Meadow?   Are we talking wet feet, up to our knees, or truly hazardous stream crossings? 

                        Do we really need to have crampons to hike this area in July?

                        Does waiting to start the hike on July 19 instead of July 6 make a significant difference in terms of the above?

                        Where do you suggest we camp when we are at Reds Meadow? 

                        Do you have any suggestions for interesting places to eat and have a brew in the area when we are off the trail?  We will spend parts of a couple days at or between Tuolumne Meadows/Lee Vining and Reds Meadow.

                        I will be bringing a group of up to 15 from Baltimore. I may have trouble getting that many reservations for the Tuolumne Meadows trailhead. None of the trailheads at Reds Meadow/Devil’s Postpile allows 15 permits, but can I combine permits for JMT north of Devil’s Postpile, Minaret Lakes, and Fern Lake to get my 15 permits?  I think they all start from the same location. 

                        My group has hiked Katahdin, the White Mountains, and the Smoky Mountains, but this is our first trip West.  Thanks for any suggestions that you can give.

                        Daryl from Baltimore

                      • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                        I try to never under-estimate water . . . Nor me. I came out of a kayak once into raging water and tried to latch onto a tree jutting out from the bank and
                        Message 11 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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                          I try to never under-estimate water . . .

                          Nor me. I came out of a kayak once into raging water and tried to latch onto a tree jutting out from the bank and almost had my arms wrenched out. It is hard to recognise - and easy to underestimate - the force and weight of water when it is running hard.

                          Ken.
                        • cjoslyn99
                          I covered TM to Reds July 12 - 14, 2011 (epic snow year). Microspikes might be helpful in a few uphill sections if snow covered but only in mornings/north
                          Message 12 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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                            I covered TM to Reds July 12 - 14, 2011 (epic snow year).  Microspikes might be helpful in a few uphill sections if snow covered but only in mornings/north facing slopes.  Assuming the PCT gang has been through already, you should have tracked trails to walk in.  Crampons not needed.

                             

                            As for stream crossings, can vary.  Definitely plan on wet feet.  None would I say dangerous (esp. if all the bridges are in place).  There are a few around Rush Creek and then again around Johnson Meadow where you could be knee deep or better.

                             

                            Waiting until July 19 can actually help quite a bit and it may have more to do with what is open/available services as opposed to conditions if it is a heavy snow year.

                             

                            Re: camping at Reds Meadow...well you can camp at Red's Meadow.  They have a backpacker's camp and also regular ones (the latter may be full up).  You can also camp off trail before/after Reds (just need to respect the regs. on how far out you need to be).

                             

                            There is no real interesting places to eat/have a brew at TM besides the Tuoumne Meadows Grill/Store.  I've never been since it has always been closed, but I've heard good things about the Tioga Pass Resort (just East of the Tioga entrance going towards Lee Vining).  Lee Vining not many options either, but the Woah Nellie Deli (Tioga Gas Mart) is suprisingly good if somewhat lacking in ambiance, as is Bodies'.

                             

                            If you want real food, you need to hit up Mammoth Lakes when you're near Reds.  It's a ski town so lots of options.

                          • forgetwho
                            Bob, you can t possibly be as much of a water crossing wimp as I am, and yet I didn t have any trouble in that section (well, between Tuolumne and Agnew
                            Message 13 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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                              Bob, you can't possibly be as much of a water crossing wimp as I am, and yet I didn't have any trouble in that section (well, between Tuolumne and Agnew Meadows, anyway - I bailed out at Agnew Meadows).  I did have trouble with my feet because I walked with wet feet, but I didn't have trouble with the crossings themselves - and I don't even remember water in Lyell Canyon itself.  Could the difference in our experiences have to do with which PART of July we were there?  I was in that section from July 29 to August 1.  If you were there earlier in July, that may explain the difference.


                              So, Darryl, later in July may be better than earlier.  Also, as the winter progresses, you can keep track of snow/water conditions here:  http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi- progs/products/PLOT_SWC.pdf.


                              Gail

                            • Lori MacDonald
                              this link does not work ???
                              Message 14 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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                                this link does not work
                                ???
                                On Dec 30, 2013, at 6:43 PM, <forgetwho@...> wrote:

                                >
                                > Bob, you can't possibly be as much of a water crossing wimp as I am, and yet I didn't have any trouble in that section (well, between Tuolumne and Agnew Meadows, anyway - I bailed out at Agnew Meadows). I did have trouble with my feet because I walked with wet feet, but I didn't have trouble with the crossings themselves - and I don't even remember water in Lyell Canyon itself. Could the difference in our experiences have to do with which PART of July we were there? I was in that section from July 29 to August 1. If you were there earlier in July, that may explain the difference.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > So, Darryl, later in July may be better than earlier. Also, as the winter progresses, you can keep track of snow/water conditions here: http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi- progs/products/PLOT_SWC.pdf.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Gail
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • robert shattuck
                                Gail, true .... You probably had no problems in that section, as I never really do---but in a good snow year, these crossings as well as a few others can be
                                Message 15 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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                                  Gail, true .... You probably had no problems in that section, as I never really do---but in a good snow year, these crossings as well as a few others can be wet and annoying---but otherwise, late in the season, nothing more than maybe a chance to cool off your feet. 

                                  Bob

                                  Sent from my iPhone

                                  On Dec 30, 2013, at 6:43 PM, forgetwho@... wrote:

                                   

                                  Bob, you can't possibly be as much of a water crossing wimp as I am, and yet I didn't have any trouble in that section (well, between Tuolumne and Agnew Meadows, anyway - I bailed out at Agnew Meadows).  I did have trouble with my feet because I walked with wet feet, but I didn't have trouble with the crossings themselves - and I don't even remember water in Lyell Canyon itself.  Could the difference in our experiences have to do with which PART of July we were there?  I was in that section from July 29 to August 1.  If you were there earlier in July, that may explain the difference.


                                  So, Darryl, later in July may be better than earlier.  Also, as the winter progresses, you can keep track of snow/water conditions here:  http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi- progs/products/PLOT_SWC.pdf.


                                  Gail

                                • forgetwho
                                  Sorry - I copied the link from the URL bar, but something got screwed up in the pasting. In the link that appears on the JMT site, there s an extra space
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Dec 30, 2013
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                                    Sorry - I copied the link from the URL bar, but something got screwed up in the pasting.  In the link that appears on the JMT site, there's an extra space after "cgi-".  In the link that appears in the emailed version, there's that extra space plus a duplicate copy of the link.

                                    Anyway, try this, and if there's an extra space after "cgi-", take it out and it will work.

                                    http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/products/PLOT_SWC.pdf


                                    Gail

                                  • daryl.dutrow
                                    Thanks to everyone. I welcome any additional comments people have, but this has already been incredibly helpful. Daryl from Baltimore
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Dec 31, 2013
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                                      Thanks to everyone. I welcome any additional comments people have, but this has already been incredibly helpful. 

                                      Daryl from Baltimore

                                    • kamekurisu
                                      Hi everyone, First time I ve posted here. Planning to do (most of) the JMT with some friends in July. More on that when the time is right. In the meanwhile,
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Dec 31, 2013
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                                        Hi everyone,


                                        First time I've posted here.  Planning to do (most of) the JMT with some friends in July.  More on that when the time is right.


                                        In the meanwhile, I'd like to point out that one solution to the problem of messed-up URLs when pasting them into a forum is to use "www.tinyurl.com".  I learned about that on another forum, and found that it works quite well.


                                        Happy New Year,


                                        Chris

                                      • forgetwho
                                        Thanks Chris ! I didn t know about this. Gail
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Dec 31, 2013
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                                          Thanks Chris !  I didn't know about this.


                                          Gail

                                        • cehauser1
                                          Gail: Probably not your fault with the spaces in the links. I ve been noticing that Yahoo seems to be adding random spaces to all the links that people have
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Jan 1, 2014
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                                            Gail:

                                            Probably not your fault with the spaces in the links.  I've been noticing that Yahoo seems to be adding random spaces to all the links that people have been posting, for several months.


                                            Chris.

                                          • Stuart Dodson
                                            sSince about a week ago all my messages go into my spam folder .Any ideas why that is? On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, 2:50, forgetwho@gmail.com
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Jan 1, 2014
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                                              sSince about a week ago all my messages go into my spam folder .Any ideas why that is?



                                              On Wednesday, 1 January 2014, 2:50, "forgetwho@..." <forgetwho@...> wrote:
                                               
                                              Thanks Chris !  I didn't know about this.

                                              Gail


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