Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Abiding by fire restrictions

Expand Messages
  • John Ladd
    The person who started the Rim Fire (402 square miles) with an illegal fire apparently will be prosecuted, according to news stories that started appearing
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 6, 2013
      The person who started the Rim Fire (402 square miles) with an illegal fire apparently will be prosecuted, according to news stories that started appearing today.

      http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/DA-Yosemite-fire-starter-to-face-federal-charges-5039099.php

      The backstory and some reflections: There were a series of unusually stringent fire restrictions in the Sierra this year due to the dry conditions. (For those of you who were not following the issue, open fires were prohibited even below the usual elevation limits and cooking stoves had to have shut-off valves, which precluded use of popular alcohol stoves.)

      I saw at least three people on my northbound hike who were violating the regs and there was some discussion here about whether it was ethical to decide that some non-approved method was "as safe" as approved methods (consensus ended up, I think, that people should follow the regs even where inconvenient).

      It's probably true that 99.95% of the time you can ignore a regulation without bad consequences. But with so many of us using the backcountry, that last 0.05% (one in 2,000) can have very bad consequences. Inyo National Forest alone issues about 6,000 backcountry permits in the typical July-August period when most fires start. The Rim Fire was truly awful. Photo below courtesy Wikepedia Commons.

      Inline image 1

      Link to photo if you can't see it - at Wikipedia article on the fire


      I know I'm sounding very preachy and sanctimonious about this, but the Rim Fire should be a teachable moment for us. Just because this fire was started by someone described as a "hunter" doesn't mean that it couldn't have been one of us who thought he/she knew more about fire safety than the Forest Service and burned down a major part of the Sierra. Hiking ethically means more than just following regs, but following regs is part of it. In my humble opinion, of course.

      John Curran Ladd
      1616 Castro Street
      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
      415-648-9279
    • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
      Hiking ethically means more than just following regs, but following regs is part of it. You are absolutely right, John, there is no question about it. Ken.
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 6, 2013
        "Hiking ethically means more than just following regs, but following regs is part of it."

        You are absolutely right, John, there is no question about it.

        Ken.
      • livingstonjohn@att.net
        About 3 years ago while hiking the PCT south of Yosemite Park I observed a hiker making a mosquito fire. It was about 2.5 feet in diameter and he was using
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 6, 2013
          About 3 years ago while hiking the PCT south of Yosemite Park I observed a hiker making a "mosquito" fire. It was about 2.5 feet in diameter and he was using 3-inch diameter logs to ward off mosquitoes. I camped nearby and did not make a fire because it was August and the fire danger was extremely high. Next morning the camper with the fire started hiking on the trail earlier than I did and so when I left I decided to check his fire. He had not put any water on it even though the creek was only 20 feet away!!! There was a 3 inch log with coals and a small flame. I used my bear canister to dump 3 volumes on the fire. Later in the morning I caught up with the camper when he was taking a smoke break. I told him that he had not put out his fire and he didn't seem concerned. I went on my way disgusted. Not sure what else I could have done.

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
          >
          > The person who started the Rim Fire (402 square miles) with an illegal fire
          > apparently will be prosecuted, according to news stories that started
          > appearing today.
          >
          > http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/DA-Yosemite-fire-starter-to-face-federal-charges-5039099.php
          >
          > The backstory and some reflections: There were a series of unusually
          > stringent fire restrictions in the Sierra this year due to the dry
          > conditions. (For those of you who were not following the issue, open fires
          > were prohibited even below the usual elevation limits and cooking stoves
          > had to have shut-off valves, which precluded use of popular alcohol stoves.)
          >
          > I saw at least three people on my northbound hike who were violating the
          > regs and there was some discussion here about whether it was ethical to
          > decide that some non-approved method was "as safe" as approved methods
          > (consensus ended up, I think, that people should follow the regs even where
          > inconvenient).
          >
          > It's probably true that 99.95% of the time you can ignore a regulation
          > without bad consequences. But with so many of us using the backcountry,
          > that last 0.05% (one in 2,000) can have very bad consequences. Inyo
          > National Forest alone issues about 6,000 backcountry permits in the typical
          > July-August period when most fires start. The Rim Fire was truly awful.
          > Photo below courtesy Wikepedia Commons.
          >
          > [image: Inline image 1]
          >
          > Link to photo if you can't see it - at Wikipedia article on the fire
          >
          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rim_Fire
          >
          > I know I'm sounding very preachy and sanctimonious about this, but the Rim
          > Fire should be a teachable moment for us. Just because this fire was
          > started by someone described as a "hunter" doesn't mean that it couldn't
          > have been one of us who thought he/she knew more about fire safety than the
          > Forest Service and burned down a major part of the Sierra. Hiking ethically
          > means more than just following regs, but following regs is part of it. In
          > my humble opinion, of course.
          >
          > John Curran Ladd
          > 1616 Castro Street
          > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
          > 415-648-9279
          >
        • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
          Not sure what else I could have done. That s when a bear spray would have been handy. :-) Ken.
          Message 4 of 5 , Dec 6, 2013
            "Not sure what else I could have done."

            That's when a bear spray would have been handy. :-)

            Ken.

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "livingstonjohn@..." <livingstonjohn@...> wrote:
            >
            > About 3 years ago while hiking the PCT south of Yosemite Park I observed a hiker making a "mosquito" fire. It was about 2.5 feet in diameter and he was using 3-inch diameter logs to ward off mosquitoes. I camped nearby and did not make a fire because it was August and the fire danger was extremely high. Next morning the camper with the fire started hiking on the trail earlier than I did and so when I left I decided to check his fire. He had not put any water on it even though the creek was only 20 feet away!!! There was a 3 inch log with coals and a small flame. I used my bear canister to dump 3 volumes on the fire. Later in the morning I caught up with the camper when he was taking a smoke break. I told him that he had not put out his fire and he didn't seem concerned. I went on my way disgusted. Not sure what else I could have done.
            >
            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@> wrote:
            > >
            > > The person who started the Rim Fire (402 square miles) with an illegal fire
            > > apparently will be prosecuted, according to news stories that started
            > > appearing today.
            > >
            > > http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/DA-Yosemite-fire-starter-to-face-federal-charges-5039099.php
            > >
            > > The backstory and some reflections: There were a series of unusually
            > > stringent fire restrictions in the Sierra this year due to the dry
            > > conditions. (For those of you who were not following the issue, open fires
            > > were prohibited even below the usual elevation limits and cooking stoves
            > > had to have shut-off valves, which precluded use of popular alcohol stoves.)
            > >
            > > I saw at least three people on my northbound hike who were violating the
            > > regs and there was some discussion here about whether it was ethical to
            > > decide that some non-approved method was "as safe" as approved methods
            > > (consensus ended up, I think, that people should follow the regs even where
            > > inconvenient).
            > >
            > > It's probably true that 99.95% of the time you can ignore a regulation
            > > without bad consequences. But with so many of us using the backcountry,
            > > that last 0.05% (one in 2,000) can have very bad consequences. Inyo
            > > National Forest alone issues about 6,000 backcountry permits in the typical
            > > July-August period when most fires start. The Rim Fire was truly awful.
            > > Photo below courtesy Wikepedia Commons.
            > >
            > > [image: Inline image 1]
            > >
            > > Link to photo if you can't see it - at Wikipedia article on the fire
            > >
            > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rim_Fire
            > >
            > > I know I'm sounding very preachy and sanctimonious about this, but the Rim
            > > Fire should be a teachable moment for us. Just because this fire was
            > > started by someone described as a "hunter" doesn't mean that it couldn't
            > > have been one of us who thought he/she knew more about fire safety than the
            > > Forest Service and burned down a major part of the Sierra. Hiking ethically
            > > means more than just following regs, but following regs is part of it. In
            > > my humble opinion, of course.
            > >
            > > John Curran Ladd
            > > 1616 Castro Street
            > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
            > > 415-648-9279
            > >
            >
          • Andy House
            That brings to mind Sergio Martinez and the Cedar Fire. http://articles.latimes.com/2005/nov/18/local/me-cedar18 Sometimes common sense is absent or ........??
            Message 5 of 5 , Dec 6, 2013
              That brings to mind Sergio Martinez and the Cedar Fire. http://articles.latimes.com/2005/nov/18/local/me-cedar18
               
              Sometimes common sense is absent or ........??
               
              r/Andy


              On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 11:12 AM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
               

              "Not sure what else I could have done."

              That's when a bear spray would have been handy. :-)

              Ken.


              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "livingstonjohn@..." <livingstonjohn@...> wrote:
              >
              > About 3 years ago while hiking the PCT south of Yosemite Park I observed a hiker making a "mosquito" fire. It was about 2.5 feet in diameter and he was using 3-inch diameter logs to ward off mosquitoes. I camped nearby and did not make a fire because it was August and the fire danger was extremely high. Next morning the camper with the fire started hiking on the trail earlier than I did and so when I left I decided to check his fire. He had not put any water on it even though the creek was only 20 feet away!!! There was a 3 inch log with coals and a small flame. I used my bear canister to dump 3 volumes on the fire. Later in the morning I caught up with the camper when he was taking a smoke break. I told him that he had not put out his fire and he didn't seem concerned. I went on my way disgusted. Not sure what else I could have done.
              >
              > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@> wrote:
              > >
              > > The person who started the Rim Fire (402 square miles) with an illegal fire
              > > apparently will be prosecuted, according to news stories that started
              > > appearing today.
              > >
              > > http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/DA-Yosemite-fire-starter-to-face-federal-charges-5039099.php
              > >
              > > The backstory and some reflections: There were a series of unusually
              > > stringent fire restrictions in the Sierra this year due to the dry
              > > conditions. (For those of you who were not following the issue, open fires
              > > were prohibited even below the usual elevation limits and cooking stoves
              > > had to have shut-off valves, which precluded use of popular alcohol stoves.)
              > >
              > > I saw at least three people on my northbound hike who were violating the
              > > regs and there was some discussion here about whether it was ethical to
              > > decide that some non-approved method was "as safe" as approved methods
              > > (consensus ended up, I think, that people should follow the regs even where
              > > inconvenient).
              > >
              > > It's probably true that 99.95% of the time you can ignore a regulation
              > > without bad consequences. But with so many of us using the backcountry,
              > > that last 0.05% (one in 2,000) can have very bad consequences. Inyo
              > > National Forest alone issues about 6,000 backcountry permits in the typical
              > > July-August period when most fires start. The Rim Fire was truly awful.
              > > Photo below courtesy Wikepedia Commons.
              > >
              > > [image: Inline image 1]
              > >
              > > Link to photo if you can't see it - at Wikipedia article on the fire
              > >
              > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rim_Fire
              > >
              > > I know I'm sounding very preachy and sanctimonious about this, but the Rim
              > > Fire should be a teachable moment for us. Just because this fire was
              > > started by someone described as a "hunter" doesn't mean that it couldn't
              > > have been one of us who thought he/she knew more about fire safety than the
              > > Forest Service and burned down a major part of the Sierra. Hiking ethically
              > > means more than just following regs, but following regs is part of it. In
              > > my humble opinion, of course.
              > >
              > > John Curran Ladd
              > > 1616 Castro Street
              > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
              > > 415-648-9279
              > >
              >


            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.