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Tumpline

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  • longritchie
    Anybody here experimented with using a tumpline, either alone or in conjunction with shoulder and/or a hip belt? Sometimes the hardest part of a walk for me is
    Message 1 of 11 , Oct 25, 2013
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      Anybody here experimented with using a tumpline, either alone or in conjunction with shoulder and/or a hip belt?

      Sometimes the hardest part of a walk for me is the way the pack pulls at my shoulders or digs into my hips and lower back. Earlier this summer I got a really nasty bruise/abrasion on one of my hips that took a couple of weeks to heal and left a scar. It made me wonder about using a tumpline.
    • Robert
      I would have to know what a tumpline was first;) ?
      Message 2 of 11 , Oct 25, 2013
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        I would have to know what a tumpline was first;) ?

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, longritchie <no_reply@...> wrote:
        >
        > Anybody here experimented with using a tumpline, either alone or in conjunction with shoulder and/or a hip belt?
        >
        > Sometimes the hardest part of a walk for me is the way the pack pulls at my shoulders or digs into my hips and lower back. Earlier this summer I got a really nasty bruise/abrasion on one of my hips that took a couple of weeks to heal and left a scar. It made me wonder about using a tumpline.
        >
      • Joe MacLeish
        When we did a trek in Nepal a small Tibetan girl and her sister carried our 80 lb duffels using just a tumpline. I tried it for 5 minutes and my neck hurt for
        Message 3 of 11 , Oct 25, 2013
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          When we did a trek in Nepal a small Tibetan girl and her sister carried our 80 lb duffels using just a tumpline.  I tried it for 5 minutes and my neck hurt for an hour.  I think it's an acquired taste.  Like you grow up doing it and build your neck up over years.

          Joe

           

          From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Robert
          Sent: Friday, October 25, 2013 6:20 PM
          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Tumpline

           

           

          I would have to know what a tumpline was first;) ?

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, longritchie <no_reply@...> wrote:
          >
          > Anybody here experimented with using a tumpline, either alone or in conjunction with shoulder and/or a hip belt?
          >
          > Sometimes the hardest part of a walk for me is the way the pack pulls at my shoulders or digs into my hips and lower back. Earlier this summer I got a really nasty bruise/abrasion on one of my hips that took a couple of weeks to heal and left a scar. It made me wonder about using a tumpline.
          >

        • Dittli-Goethals
          Think of it as a noose, around your head! Ok, I clearly have to much time on my hands tonight.... ... -- John Dittli/Leslie Goethals John Dittli Photography
          Message 4 of 11 , Oct 25, 2013
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            Think of it as a noose, around your head!  Ok, I clearly have to much time on my hands tonight....


            On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
             

            I would have to know what a tumpline was first;) ?

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, longritchie <no_reply@...> wrote:
            >
            > Anybody here experimented with using a tumpline, either alone or in conjunction with shoulder and/or a hip belt?
            >
            > Sometimes the hardest part of a walk for me is the way the pack pulls at my shoulders or digs into my hips and lower back. Earlier this summer I got a really nasty bruise/abrasion on one of my hips that took a couple of weeks to heal and left a scar. It made me wonder about using a tumpline.
            >




            --
            John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
            John Dittli Photography
            www.johndittli.com
            760-934-3505 

            Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
            2010  IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner
          • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
            There has to be a reason why this system has fallen out of use. I cannot imagine hanging weights from my head, I have enough neck problems as it is. In any
            Message 5 of 11 , Oct 26, 2013
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              There has to be a reason why this system has fallen out of use. I cannot imagine hanging weights from my head, I have enough neck problems as it is.

              In any case, I suspect all of the experienced packers on this forum will agree that a properly fitted back pack resting on the hips is the proven way to enjoy a few weeks in the mountains.

              Ken.

              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, longritchie <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >
              > Anybody here experimented with using a tumpline, either alone or in conjunction with shoulder and/or a hip belt?
              >
              > Sometimes the hardest part of a walk for me is the way the pack pulls at my shoulders or digs into my hips and lower back. Earlier this summer I got a really nasty bruise/abrasion on one of my hips that took a couple of weeks to heal and left a scar. It made me wonder about using a tumpline.
              >
            • calbirder436
              Never heard of a tumpline before--but my solution to the pulling of the pack on my shoulders is the Aarn pack with its front packs--I have used the following
              Message 6 of 11 , Oct 26, 2013
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                Never heard of a tumpline before--but my solution to the pulling of the pack on my shoulders is the Aarn pack with its front packs--I have used the following in my attempts at comfort (noting that my full weight with food and water at the start of a weeklong hike is around 35 pounds):
                --standard backpack (Gregory Diva)--holds the weight well on my hips, but shoulders tired and a heavy pack even empty
                --lightweight frameless pack (Six Moon Designs Starlight)--really not designed for the weight I was carrying and lots of shoulder pull.
                --lightweight frameless pack (Six Moon Designs Starlight) in conjunction with Syncpack--a front pack system--http://thesyncpack.com/  --did the entire JMT with this.  Worked much better, no shoulder pull.  Only downside is that you could not see your feet.  Not a problem for most of the time, but would be nice on some of the down to be able to see your feet.  Syncpack can be used with any pack
                --Aarn Natural Balance--http://www.aarnusa.com/ourpacks.htm  This is a New Zealand company--and truly a VERY comfortable pack for the weight I carry.  The front packs are divided so the center area is clear--i.e. you can see your feet which makes me feel more comfortable going downhill.  Weight is naturally distributed, no shoulder pull.  Admittedly dorky looking, but who cares when we are talking comfort.  I am extremely satisfied with my Aarn pack--and will never go back to a non-front pack system.
                 
                Cheryl Emoto :)
                 
                From: longritchie
                Sent: ‎Friday‎, ‎October‎ ‎25‎, ‎2013 ‎1‎:‎22‎ ‎PM
                To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                 
                 

                Anybody here experimented with using a tumpline, either alone or in conjunction with shoulder and/or a hip belt?

                Sometimes the hardest part of a walk for me is the way the pack pulls at my shoulders or digs into my hips and lower back. Earlier this summer I got a really nasty bruise/abrasion on one of my hips that took a couple of weeks to heal and left a scar. It made me wonder about using a tumpline.

              • onetwolaugh
                Never had an issue with my packs pulling - maybe you need to go shopping for a different pack. -Dale ... Anybody here experimented with using a tumpline,
                Message 7 of 11 , Oct 26, 2013
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                  Never had an issue with my packs pulling - maybe you need to go shopping for a different pack.

                  -Dale 



                  ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Anybody here experimented with using a tumpline, either alone or in conjunction with shoulder and/or a hip belt?

                  Sometimes the hardest part of a walk for me is the way the pack pulls at my shoulders or digs into my hips and lower back. Earlier this summer I got a really nasty bruise/abrasion on one of my hips that took a couple of weeks to heal and left a scar. It made me wonder about using a tumpline.
                • Michael Bakewell
                  A pack fitter would be helpful. On Saturday, October 26, 2013 3:20 PM, onetwolaugh@yahoo.com wrote:   Never had an issue with my
                  Message 8 of 11 , Oct 26, 2013
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                    A pack fitter would be helpful.


                    On Saturday, October 26, 2013 3:20 PM, "onetwolaugh@..." <onetwolaugh@...> wrote:
                     
                    Never had an issue with my packs pulling - maybe you need to go shopping for a different pack.
                    -Dale 


                    ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Anybody here experimented with using a tumpline, either alone or in conjunction with shoulder and/or a hip belt?

                    Sometimes the hardest part of a walk for me is the way the pack pulls at my shoulders or digs into my hips and lower back. Earlier this summer I got a really nasty bruise/abrasion on one of my hips that took a couple of weeks to heal and left a scar. It made me wonder about using a tumpline.


                  • longritchie
                    The Tumpline by R. J. Secor A tumpline is a simple strap that runs from the top of the head and around the bottom of a pack. This is probably the oldest
                    Message 9 of 11 , Oct 28, 2013
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                      The Tumpline
                      by R. J. Secor



                      A tumpline is a simple strap that runs from the top of the head
                      and around the bottom of a pack.  This is probably the oldest
                      technique of human load carriage.  Native Americans, French
                      Voyageurs, and North American mountain men have been known
                      to carry heavy, bulky loads long distances with this method.  And
                      today, many people in developing countries still use tumplines to
                      carry loads that may be 70% of their body weight.

                      I have used a tumpline to carry knapsacks for the past four years
                      and I have enjoyed the reactions I get from other hikers.  I once
                      encountered some US Marines from the Mountain Warfare
                      Training Center near Bridgeport.  Our brief greeting was
                      punctuated by the word, "sir," while they stared at that strap on
                      top of my head.  More often, young people laugh at me and ask if
                      I am a Sherpa.  But occasionally someone asks me why I am
                      using such a weird device.  I reply: "Because it is easier."

                      In 1994 I took part in a mountaineering expedition to Cho Oyu, a
                      26,748-foot mountain approximately 15 miles northwest of Mt.
                      Everest. We hired six Nepalese climbing Sherpas to assist us
                      with load carrying.

                      These Sherpas were skilled, professional climbers, outfitted with
                      the most up-to-date mountaineering clothing and equipment.  But
                      despite having state of the art packs, with shaped, load-bearing
                      waist-belts and shoulder straps, they carried them using
                      tumplines.  I recalled that the noted American climber and
                      equipment designer Yvon Chouinard had described the virtues of
                      the tumpline in the 1980 Chouinard Equipment catalog.  While
                      he had originally started using the tumpline as therapy for chronic
                      back pain, once his back pain had disappeared he noted that it
                      was easier to carry a pack with this seemingly primitive method.  
                      So I picked up one of the Sherpa's packs.  The massive load
                      crushed my shoulders but it felt a little better once the waist belt
                      was tightened.  The Sherpa suggested that I unfasten the waist
                      belt and then he adjusted the tumpline so that most of the load
                      was carried by it with only a small amount of weight on the
                      shoulder straps.  But with the tumpline the weight seemed to
                      disappear.  My torso was completely unrestricted and I was able
                      to breathe easier without the "corset" of the waist belt and
                      shoulder straps.

                      I experimented further with the tumpline after I returned home.  I
                      carried a load of water once a week during my daily afternoon
                      hike (2 miles one way with 1,270 feet of gain) along a good dirt
                      road in the mountains behind my home.  To be fair, I should state
                      that it took me a long time to get used to the strain on my neck.  I
                      used it on 14 of my afternoon hikes and on five weekend trips
                      before embarking on a hundred mile, two-week hike in the High
                      Sierra.  On my afternoon hikes with a 53-pound load I averaged
                      49 minutes 14 seconds with the tumpline and 52:30 with the
                      load-bearing waist belt.  With 66 pounds I averaged 52:25 with
                      the tumpline and 58:18 with the waist belt.  And on the two-week
                      hike I alternated between using the tumpline and the waist belt
                      each day.  I found that I could hike faster, breathe easier, and felt
                      less tired at the end of the day with the tumpline than I did with
                      the waist belt.

                      My hiking and climbing friends were skeptical that this ancient
                      method was better than their modern corsets so I contacted John
                      Kirk, the Load-Bearing Team Leader at the US Army's Natick
                      Research, Development, and Engineering Center at Natick,
                      Massachusetts.  He replied: "When soldiers who typically carry
                      60-100 lbs in a rucksack have been instructed to carry loads on
                      their heads . . .they have a difficult time with it."  But he referred
                      me to the cover story of the February 1986 issue of Nature.  The
                      authors of this article measured the oxygen consumption of
                      African tribal women, the Luo (who balance the load on top of
                      their heads) and the Kikuyu (who use the tumpline).  The women
                      walked on a motorized treadmill with and without loads.  Loads
                      of up to 20% of body weight had no perceptible effect on oxygen
                      consumption and, presumably, on energy cost.  In other words,
                      they carried the equivalent of 20% of their body weight free.  
                      Increasing the loads from 20% to 70% of body weight increased
                      the energetic cost (based on oxygen consumption) of the African
                      tribal women from 0% to 50%.  They compared their findings
                      with similar studies of US army recruits.  Army recruits carrying
                      backpacks (with just shoulder straps and no waist belt) with 20%
                      of body weight loads increased oxygen consumption by 13% and
                      70% loads by nearly 100%.  (I believe that it would have been
                      more relevant to measure the oxygen consumption of
                      experienced, fit hikers using packs with load-bearing waist
                      belts.)

                      As far as I know, tumplines are not commercially available.  I
                      make my own by using 18 inches of 2-inch wide seat belt
                      webbing for the head strap.  I then sew seven feet of 1-inch flat
                      webbing to one side of the head strap.  On the other side of the
                      head strap I attach a ladder lock buckle and run the one-inch
                      strap through it.  The rest of the one-inch strap goes down the
                      sides and underneath my pack.  Most external frames have the
                      packs attached to the upper two-thirds of the frame and I have
                      found that it makes no difference if the strap goes immediately
                      beneath the pack and above the sleeping bag or if it runs beneath
                      the sleeping bag.  The head strap goes on top of the forward part
                      of my head, just above (not on) my forehead.  I usually place a
                      washcloth inside of my hat (not so much for padding but for
                      absorbing perspiration from my bald head) and place the
                      tumpline on top of my hat.  I don't attach the pack's waist belt
                      and only have a small part of the load carried by the shoulder
                      straps (to keep the pack from swaying) while most of the pack
                      weight is carried by the tumpline.  But I do resort to using the
                      waist belt and the shoulder straps when hiking downhill,
                      especially along a steep, narrow trail.  I don't need to breathe so
                      much going downhill, I am usually hiking faster and I typically
                      need to turn my head frequently to see where to place my feet.

                      While I encourage hikers to try the tumpline I also want to urge
                      everyone to take it easy when you first use a tumpline.  Novice
                      backpackers (using a waist belt) should not carry more than 20%
                      of their body weight in a pack and even with this weight
                      restriction those on their first overnight hike probably felt new
                      muscles the next day.  The beginner's tumpline load should be
                      light, perhaps no more than 15% of body weight, and even then
                      your neck may be stiff the following day.

                      Start by carrying a small daypack with a tumpline.  Take it easy
                      and gradually increase the pack weight.  Your neck and back
                      muscles will slowly get stronger and I believe that you'll find it
                      easier to carry a pack.  But best of all, the pleasure you get from
                      hiking will increase.



                      -----

                      R.J. Secor is a mountaineer who is probably best known for authoring

                      "The High Sierra: Peaks, Passes and Trails", the definitive guidebook

                      for California's Sierra Nevada.


                      "The Tumpline" first appeared in the Sierra Club Angeles Chapter's June 1999

                      issue of the Southern Sierran.



                      ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <foxfish50@...> wrote:

                      A pack fitter would be helpful.


                      On Saturday, October 26, 2013 3:20 PM, "onetwolaugh@..." <onetwolaugh@...> wrote:
                       
                      Never had an issue with my packs pulling - maybe you need to go shopping for a different pack.
                      -Dale 


                      ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Anybody here experimented with using a tumpline, either alone or in conjunction with shoulder and/or a hip belt?

                      Sometimes the hardest part of a walk for me is the way the pack pulls at my shoulders or digs into my hips and lower back. Earlier this summer I got a really nasty bruise/abrasion on one of my hips that took a couple of weeks to heal and left a scar. It made me wonder about using a tumpline.


                    • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                      There are 33 vertebrae in the spine meaning 32 joints. I think I ll give my joints a break and stay with the waist loaded pack. Has anyone noticed that most of
                      Message 10 of 11 , Oct 28, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        There are 33 vertebrae in the spine meaning 32 joints. I think I'll give my joints a break and stay with the waist loaded pack.

                        Has anyone noticed that most of the natives who use the tumpline system are usually quite short - all that compression going on can't do a lot of good.


                        Ken.

                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, longritchie <no_reply@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > The Tumpline
                        > by R. J. Secor
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > A tumpline is a simple strap that runs from the top of the head
                        > and around the bottom of a pack. This is probably the oldest
                        > technique of human load carriage. Native Americans, French
                        > Voyageurs, and North American mountain men have been known
                        > to carry heavy, bulky loads long distances with this method. And
                        > today, many people in developing countries still use tumplines to
                        > carry loads that may be 70% of their body weight.
                        >
                        > I have used a tumpline to carry knapsacks for the past four years
                        > and I have enjoyed the reactions I get from other hikers. I once
                        > encountered some US Marines from the Mountain Warfare
                        > Training Center near Bridgeport. Our brief greeting was
                        > punctuated by the word, "sir," while they stared at that strap on
                        > top of my head. More often, young people laugh at me and ask if
                        > I am a Sherpa. But occasionally someone asks me why I am
                        > using such a weird device. I reply: "Because it is easier."
                        >
                        > In 1994 I took part in a mountaineering expedition to Cho Oyu, a
                        > 26,748-foot mountain approximately 15 miles northwest of Mt.
                        > Everest. We hired six Nepalese climbing Sherpas to assist us
                        > with load carrying.
                        >
                        > These Sherpas were skilled, professional climbers, outfitted with
                        > the most up-to-date mountaineering clothing and equipment. But
                        > despite having state of the art packs, with shaped, load-bearing
                        > waist-belts and shoulder straps, they carried them using
                        > tumplines. I recalled that the noted American climber and
                        > equipment designer Yvon Chouinard had described the virtues of
                        > the tumpline in the 1980 Chouinard Equipment catalog. While
                        > he had originally started using the tumpline as therapy for chronic
                        > back pain, once his back pain had disappeared he noted that it
                        > was easier to carry a pack with this seemingly primitive method.
                        > So I picked up one of the Sherpa's packs. The massive load
                        > crushed my shoulders but it felt a little better once the waist belt
                        > was tightened. The Sherpa suggested that I unfasten the waist
                        > belt and then he adjusted the tumpline so that most of the load
                        > was carried by it with only a small amount of weight on the
                        > shoulder straps. But with the tumpline the weight seemed to
                        > disappear. My torso was completely unrestricted and I was able
                        > to breathe easier without the "corset" of the waist belt and
                        > shoulder straps.
                        >
                        > I experimented further with the tumpline after I returned home. I
                        > carried a load of water once a week during my daily afternoon
                        > hike (2 miles one way with 1,270 feet of gain) along a good dirt
                        > road in the mountains behind my home. To be fair, I should state
                        > that it took me a long time to get used to the strain on my neck. I
                        > used it on 14 of my afternoon hikes and on five weekend trips
                        > before embarking on a hundred mile, two-week hike in the High
                        > Sierra. On my afternoon hikes with a 53-pound load I averaged
                        > 49 minutes 14 seconds with the tumpline and 52:30 with the
                        > load-bearing waist belt. With 66 pounds I averaged 52:25 with
                        > the tumpline and 58:18 with the waist belt. And on the two-week
                        > hike I alternated between using the tumpline and the waist belt
                        > each day. I found that I could hike faster, breathe easier, and felt
                        > less tired at the end of the day with the tumpline than I did with
                        > the waist belt.
                        >
                        > My hiking and climbing friends were skeptical that this ancient
                        > method was better than their modern corsets so I contacted John
                        > Kirk, the Load-Bearing Team Leader at the US Army's Natick
                        > Research, Development, and Engineering Center at Natick,
                        > Massachusetts. He replied: "When soldiers who typically carry
                        > 60-100 lbs in a rucksack have been instructed to carry loads on
                        > their heads . . .they have a difficult time with it." But he referred
                        > me to the cover story of the February 1986 issue of Nature. The
                        > authors of this article measured the oxygen consumption of
                        > African tribal women, the Luo (who balance the load on top of
                        > their heads) and the Kikuyu (who use the tumpline). The women
                        > walked on a motorized treadmill with and without loads. Loads
                        > of up to 20% of body weight had no perceptible effect on oxygen
                        > consumption and, presumably, on energy cost. In other words,
                        > they carried the equivalent of 20% of their body weight free.
                        > Increasing the loads from 20% to 70% of body weight increased
                        > the energetic cost (based on oxygen consumption) of the African
                        > tribal women from 0% to 50%. They compared their findings
                        > with similar studies of US army recruits. Army recruits carrying
                        > backpacks (with just shoulder straps and no waist belt) with 20%
                        > of body weight loads increased oxygen consumption by 13% and
                        > 70% loads by nearly 100%. (I believe that it would have been
                        > more relevant to measure the oxygen consumption of
                        > experienced, fit hikers using packs with load-bearing waist
                        > belts.)
                        >
                        > As far as I know, tumplines are not commercially available. I
                        > make my own by using 18 inches of 2-inch wide seat belt
                        > webbing for the head strap. I then sew seven feet of 1-inch flat
                        > webbing to one side of the head strap. On the other side of the
                        > head strap I attach a ladder lock buckle and run the one-inch
                        > strap through it. The rest of the one-inch strap goes down the
                        > sides and underneath my pack. Most external frames have the
                        > packs attached to the upper two-thirds of the frame and I have
                        > found that it makes no difference if the strap goes immediately
                        > beneath the pack and above the sleeping bag or if it runs beneath
                        > the sleeping bag. The head strap goes on top of the forward part
                        > of my head, just above (not on) my forehead. I usually place a
                        > washcloth inside of my hat (not so much for padding but for
                        > absorbing perspiration from my bald head) and place the
                        > tumpline on top of my hat. I don't attach the pack's waist belt
                        > and only have a small part of the load carried by the shoulder
                        > straps (to keep the pack from swaying) while most of the pack
                        > weight is carried by the tumpline. But I do resort to using the
                        > waist belt and the shoulder straps when hiking downhill,
                        > especially along a steep, narrow trail. I don't need to breathe so
                        > much going downhill, I am usually hiking faster and I typically
                        > need to turn my head frequently to see where to place my feet.
                        >
                        > While I encourage hikers to try the tumpline I also want to urge
                        > everyone to take it easy when you first use a tumpline. Novice
                        > backpackers (using a waist belt) should not carry more than 20%
                        > of their body weight in a pack and even with this weight
                        > restriction those on their first overnight hike probably felt new
                        > muscles the next day. The beginner's tumpline load should be
                        > light, perhaps no more than 15% of body weight, and even then
                        > your neck may be stiff the following day.
                        >
                        > Start by carrying a small daypack with a tumpline. Take it easy
                        > and gradually increase the pack weight. Your neck and back
                        > muscles will slowly get stronger and I believe that you'll find it
                        > easier to carry a pack. But best of all, the pleasure you get from
                        > hiking will increase.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----
                        > R.J. Secor is a mountaineer who is probably best known for authoring
                        > "The High Sierra: Peaks, Passes and Trails", the definitive guidebook
                        > for California's Sierra Nevada.
                        >
                        >
                        > "The Tumpline" first appeared in the Sierra Club Angeles Chapter's June 1999
                        > issue of the Southern Sierran.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <foxfish50@> wrote:
                        >
                        > A pack fitter would be helpful.
                        >
                        >
                        > On Saturday, October 26, 2013 3:20 PM, "onetwolaugh@" <onetwolaugh@> wrote:
                        >
                        > Never had an issue with my packs pulling - maybe you need to go shopping for a different pack.
                        > -Dale
                        >
                        >
                        > ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                        >
                        > Anybody here experimented with using a tumpline, either alone or in conjunction with shoulder and/or a hip belt?
                        >
                        > Sometimes the hardest part of a walk for me is the way the pack pulls at my shoulders or digs into my hips and lower back. Earlier this summer I got a really nasty bruise/abrasion on one of my hips that took a couple of weeks to heal and left a scar. It made me wonder about using a tumpline.
                        >
                      • longritchie
                        There are 33 vertebrae in the spine meaning 32 joints. I think I ll give my joints a break and stay with the waist loaded pack. Ah, a theorist! You may be
                        Message 11 of 11 , Oct 28, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment

                          "There are 33 vertebrae in the spine meaning 32 joints. I think I'll give my joints a break and stay with the waist loaded pack."


                          Ah, a theorist! You may be right (although you don't have your facts about the human spine in order) and R.J. Secor, Yvon Chouinard and all of those Nepali and tall African women wrong, I can't really say. But I think it would be intresting to try it, carefully as suggested.


                          ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          There are 33 vertebrae in the spine meaning 32 joints. I think I'll give my joints a break and stay with the waist loaded pack.

                          Has anyone noticed that most of the natives who use the tumpline system are usually quite short - all that compression going on can't do a lot of good.


                          Ken.

                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, longritchie <no_reply@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > The Tumpline
                          > by R. J. Secor
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > A tumpline is a simple strap that runs from the top of the head
                          > and around the bottom of a pack. This is probably the oldest
                          > technique of human load carriage. Native Americans, French
                          > Voyageurs, and North American mountain men have been known
                          > to carry heavy, bulky loads long distances with this method. And
                          > today, many people in developing countries still use tumplines to
                          > carry loads that may be 70% of their body weight.
                          >
                          > I have used a tumpline to carry knapsacks for the past four years
                          > and I have enjoyed the reactions I get from other hikers. I once
                          > encountered some US Marines from the Mountain Warfare
                          > Training Center near Bridgeport. Our brief greeting was
                          > punctuated by the word, "sir," while they stared at that strap on
                          > top of my head. More often, young people laugh at me and ask if
                          > I am a Sherpa. But occasionally someone asks me why I am
                          > using such a weird device. I reply: "Because it is easier."
                          >
                          > In 1994 I took part in a mountaineering expedition to Cho Oyu, a
                          > 26,748-foot mountain approximately 15 miles northwest of Mt.
                          > Everest. We hired six Nepalese climbing Sherpas to assist us
                          > with load carrying.
                          >
                          > These Sherpas were skilled, professional climbers, outfitted with
                          > the most up-to-date mountaineering clothing and equipment. But
                          > despite having state of the art packs, with shaped, load-bearing
                          > waist-belts and shoulder straps, they carried them using
                          > tumplines. I recalled that the noted American climber and
                          > equipment designer Yvon Chouinard had described the virtues of
                          > the tumpline in the 1980 Chouinard Equipment catalog. While
                          > he had originally started using the tumpline as therapy for chronic
                          > back pain, once his back pain had disappeared he noted that it
                          > was easier to carry a pack with this seemingly primitive method.
                          > So I picked up one of the Sherpa's packs. The massive load
                          > crushed my shoulders but it felt a little better once the waist belt
                          > was tightened. The Sherpa suggested that I unfasten the waist
                          > belt and then he adjusted the tumpline so that most of the load
                          > was carried by it with only a small amount of weight on the
                          > shoulder straps. But with the tumpline the weight seemed to
                          > disappear. My torso was completely unrestricted and I was able
                          > to breathe easier without the "corset" of the waist belt and
                          > shoulder straps.
                          >
                          > I experimented further with the tumpline after I returned home. I
                          > carried a load of water once a week during my daily afternoon
                          > hike (2 miles one way with 1,270 feet of gain) along a good dirt
                          > road in the mountains behind my home. To be fair, I should state
                          > that it took me a long time to get used to the strain on my neck. I
                          > used it on 14 of my afternoon hikes and on five weekend trips
                          > before embarking on a hundred mile, two-week hike in the High
                          > Sierra. On my afternoon hikes with a 53-pound load I averaged
                          > 49 minutes 14 seconds with the tumpline and 52:30 with the
                          > load-bearing waist belt. With 66 pounds I averaged 52:25 with
                          > the tumpline and 58:18 with the waist belt. And on the two-week
                          > hike I alternated between using the tumpline and the waist belt
                          > each day. I found that I could hike faster, breathe easier, and felt
                          > less tired at the end of the day with the tumpline than I did with
                          > the waist belt.
                          >
                          > My hiking and climbing friends were skeptical that this ancient
                          > method was better than their modern corsets so I contacted John
                          > Kirk, the Load-Bearing Team Leader at the US Army's Natick
                          > Research, Development, and Engineering Center at Natick,
                          > Massachusetts. He replied: "When soldiers who typically carry
                          > 60-100 lbs in a rucksack have been instructed to carry loads on
                          > their heads . . .they have a difficult time with it." But he referred
                          > me to the cover story of the February 1986 issue of Nature. The
                          > authors of this article measured the oxygen consumption of
                          > African tribal women, the Luo (who balance the load on top of
                          > their heads) and the Kikuyu (who use the tumpline). The women
                          > walked on a motorized treadmill with and without loads. Loads
                          > of up to 20% of body weight had no perceptible effect on oxygen
                          > consumption and, presumably, on energy cost. In other words,
                          > they carried the equivalent of 20% of their body weight free.
                          > Increasing the loads from 20% to 70% of body weight increased
                          > the energetic cost (based on oxygen consumption) of the African
                          > tribal women from 0% to 50%. They compared their findings
                          > with similar studies of US army recruits. Army recruits carrying
                          > backpacks (with just shoulder straps and no waist belt) with 20%
                          > of body weight loads increased oxygen consumption by 13% and
                          > 70% loads by nearly 100%. (I believe that it would have been
                          > more relevant to measure the oxygen consumption of
                          > experienced, fit hikers using packs with load-bearing waist
                          > belts.)
                          >
                          > As far as I know, tumplines are not commercially available. I
                          > make my own by using 18 inches of 2-inch wide seat belt
                          > webbing for the head strap. I then sew seven feet of 1-inch flat
                          > webbing to one side of the head strap. On the other side of the
                          > head strap I attach a ladder lock buckle and run the one-inch
                          > strap through it. The rest of the one-inch strap goes down the
                          > sides and underneath my pack. Most external frames have the
                          > packs attached to the upper two-thirds of the frame and I have
                          > found that it makes no difference if the strap goes immediately
                          > beneath the pack and above the sleeping bag or if it runs beneath
                          > the sleeping bag. The head strap goes on top of the forward part
                          > of my head, just above (not on) my forehead. I usually place a
                          > washcloth inside of my hat (not so much for padding but for
                          > absorbing perspiration from my bald head) and place the
                          > tumpline on top of my hat. I don't attach the pack's waist belt
                          > and only have a small part of the load carried by the shoulder
                          > straps (to keep the pack from swaying) while most of the pack
                          > weight is carried by the tumpline. But I do resort to using the
                          > waist belt and the shoulder straps when hiking downhill,
                          > especially along a steep, narrow trail. I don't need to breathe so
                          > much going downhill, I am usually hiking faster and I typically
                          > need to turn my head frequently to see where to place my feet.
                          >
                          > While I encourage hikers to try the tumpline I also want to urge
                          > everyone to take it easy when you first use a tumpline. Novice
                          > backpackers (using a waist belt) should not carry more than 20%
                          > of their body weight in a pack and even with this weight
                          > restriction those on their first overnight hike probably felt new
                          > muscles the next day. The beginner's tumpline load should be
                          > light, perhaps no more than 15% of body weight, and even then
                          > your neck may be stiff the following day.
                          >
                          > Start by carrying a small daypack with a tumpline. Take it easy
                          > and gradually increase the pack weight. Your neck and back
                          > muscles will slowly get stronger and I believe that you'll find it
                          > easier to carry a pack. But best of all, the pleasure you get from
                          > hiking will increase.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----
                          > R.J. Secor is a mountaineer who is probably best known for authoring
                          > "The High Sierra: Peaks, Passes and Trails", the definitive guidebook
                          > for California's Sierra Nevada.
                          >
                          >
                          > "The Tumpline" first appeared in the Sierra Club Angeles Chapter's June 1999
                          > issue of the Southern Sierran.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <foxfish50@> wrote:
                          >
                          > A pack fitter would be helpful.
                          >
                          >
                          > On Saturday, October 26, 2013 3:20 PM, "onetwolaugh@" <onetwolaugh@> wrote:
                          >
                          > Never had an issue with my packs pulling - maybe you need to go shopping for a different pack.
                          > -Dale
                          >
                          >
                          > ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                          >
                          > Anybody here experimented with using a tumpline, either alone or in conjunction with shoulder and/or a hip belt?
                          >
                          > Sometimes the hardest part of a walk for me is the way the pack pulls at my shoulders or digs into my hips and lower back. Earlier this summer I got a really nasty bruise/abrasion on one of my hips that took a couple of weeks to heal and left a scar. It made me wonder about using a tumpline.
                          >
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