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new shelter: tent or tarp?

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  • kent.mclemore
    View Source Light Heart Solo or Flat Tarp by Hyperlight Mountain Gear??? http://www.lightheartgear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=16
    Message 1 of 21 , Oct 23, 2013
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      View Source
      Light Heart Solo or Flat Tarp by Hyperlight Mountain Gear???
      for a 3 week, Sept. 2014 JMT Sobo thru-hike. I enjoy sleeping in the open, so the tarp is appealing. But the idea of a wet down bag is not. So I'm thinking a bivy would be prudent if I go with the tarp.

      I know its a personal thing, but any thoughts, advice or ideas, especially from those with experience using a tarp on the JMT in Sept., would be appreciated.

      Kent
    • Robert
      I m not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks
      Message 2 of 21 , Oct 23, 2013
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        I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <kent.mclemore@...> wrote:
        >
        > View Source
        > Light Heart Solo or Flat Tarp by Hyperlight Mountain Gear???
        > http://www.lightheartgear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=16 http://www.lightheartgear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=16
        >
        > http://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/hiking-climbing-shelters/tarps/hmg-flat-tarps.html http://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/hiking-climbing-shelters/tarps/hmg-flat-tarps.html
        > for a 3 week, Sept. 2014 JMT Sobo thru-hike. I enjoy sleeping in the open, so the tarp is appealing. But the idea of a wet down bag is not. So I'm thinking a bivy would be prudent if I go with the tarp.
        >
        >
        > I know its a personal thing, but any thoughts, advice or ideas, especially from those with experience using a tarp on the JMT in Sept., would be appreciated.
        >
        >
        > Kent
        >
      • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
        Bob, Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?
        Message 3 of 21 , Oct 23, 2013
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          Bob,

          Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?

          Ken.



          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
          >
          >
        • w5yk
          I used that HMG tarp you linked to on a 13-day SOBO hike of the JMT this September. I had the 8x10 version. It was perfect. I set it up on four nights when it
          Message 4 of 21 , Oct 23, 2013
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            I used that HMG tarp you linked to on a 13-day SOBO hike of the JMT this September. I had the 8x10 version. It was perfect. I set it up on four nights when it looked like it might rain. It is so big that you do not need a bivy bag inside it - if you are in the middle, the rain just isn't going to get anywhere near you. There's lots of room to spread all your gear out. We had a bit of wind and rain on two nights for a short time, and I was fine. The six other guys in my group all had tents and most of them said they would bring a tarp next time after seeing how light the HMG cuben tarp was. Even with string, pegs and a groundsheet you are going to be well  under 1lb. They are well made, and have a lot of tie-out points. I would definitely use it again for that type of trip.



            ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <kent.mclemore@...> wrote:

            View Source
            Light Heart Solo or Flat Tarp by Hyperlight Mountain Gear???
            for a 3 week, Sept. 2014 JMT Sobo thru-hike. I enjoy sleeping in the open, so the tarp is appealing. But the idea of a wet down bag is not. So I'm thinking a bivy would be prudent if I go with the tarp.

            I know its a personal thing, but any thoughts, advice or ideas, especially from those with experience using a tarp on the JMT in Sept., would be appreciated.

            Kent
          • Robert
            The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water resistant on top, so I wouldn t use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I don t use a ground
            Message 5 of 21 , Oct 23, 2013
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              The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.

              Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.

              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@..." <kenjessett@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Bob,
              >
              > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?
              >
              > Ken.
              >
              >
              >
              > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
              > >
              > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
              > >
              > >
              >
            • Stuart Dodson
              I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm and now use it
              Message 6 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
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                I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm and now use it all the time so learnt the hard way.When woken up by poor conditions it is often too late.If the next day is not going to be sunny you are on a downer all day thinking how you are going to dry the bag.In a no fire area it is even worse.With the bivy and a silk liner you can sleep just with them if it is warm so gives some flexiblity.


                On Thursday, 24 October 2013, 2:03, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
                 
                The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.

                Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.

                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@..." <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                > Bob,
                >
                > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?
                >
                > Ken.
                >
                >
                >
                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                > >
                > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
                > >
                > >
                >



              • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                Thanks. I m trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target. Ken.
                Message 7 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
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                  Thanks. I'm trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target.

                  Ken.

                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Dodson <stuartdodson@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm and now use it all the time so learnt the hard way.When woken up by poor conditions it is often too late.If the next day is not going to be sunny you are on a downer all day thinking how you are going to dry the bag.In a no fire area it is even worse.With the bivy and a silk liner you can sleep just with them if it is warm so gives some flexiblity.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Thursday, 24 October 2013, 2:03, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >  
                  > The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.
                  >
                  > Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.
                  >
                  > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@" <kenjessett@> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Bob,
                  > >
                  > > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?
                  > >
                  > > Ken.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  >
                • kent.mclemore
                  ... Thanks. I m trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target. Ken. ... Ken.
                  Message 8 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
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                    ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <kenjessett@...> wrote:

                    Thanks. I'm trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target.

                    Ken.

                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Dodson <stuartdodson@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm and now use it all the time so learnt the hard way.When woken up by poor conditions it is often too late.If the next day is not going to be sunny you are on a downer all day thinking how you are going to dry the bag.In a no fire area it is even worse.With the bivy and a silk liner you can sleep just with them if it is warm so gives some flexiblity.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On Thursday, 24 October 2013, 2:03, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >  
                    > The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.
                    >
                    > Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.
                    >
                    > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@" <kenjessett@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Bob,
                    > >
                    > > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?
                    > >
                    > > Ken.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • kent.mclemore
                    Thanks for the responses! ... Thanks. I m trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target. Ken. ...
                    Message 9 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
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                      Thanks for the responses! 



                      ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <kenjessett@...> wrote:

                      Thanks. I'm trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target.

                      Ken.

                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Dodson <stuartdodson@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm and now use it all the time so learnt the hard way.When woken up by poor conditions it is often too late.If the next day is not going to be sunny you are on a downer all day thinking how you are going to dry the bag.In a no fire area it is even worse.With the bivy and a silk liner you can sleep just with them if it is warm so gives some flexiblity.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Thursday, 24 October 2013, 2:03, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >  
                      > The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.
                      >
                      > Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.
                      >
                      > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@" <kenjessett@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Bob,
                      > >
                      > > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?
                      > >
                      > > Ken.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Larry Beck
                      So, Adding the bivy, the tarp, the stakes and tie-lines.. how much does it weigh? Larry ________________________________ From: kent.mclemore@yahoo.com
                      Message 10 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
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                        So, Adding the bivy, the tarp, the stakes and tie-lines.. how much does it weigh?
                         
                        Larry
                        From: "kent.mclemore@..." <kent.mclemore@...>
                        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:35 AM
                        Subject: [John Muir Trail] RE: new shelter: tent or tarp?
                         
                         
                        ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                        Thanks. I'm trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target. Ken.
                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Dodson <stuartdodson@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm and now use it all the time so learnt the hard way.When woken up by poor conditions it is often too late.If the next day is not going to be sunny you are on a downer all day thinking how you are going to dry the bag.In a no fire area it is even worse.With the bivy and a silk liner you can sleep just with them if it is warm so gives some flexiblity.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > On Thursday, 24 October 2013, 2:03, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >  
                        > The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.
                        >
                        > Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.
                        >
                        > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@" <kenjessett@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > Bob,
                        > >
                        > > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?
                        > >
                        > > Ken.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • Joe MacLeish
                        Ken: My SoLong 6 weighs 1lb 8.4 oz with pegs and bag (my carry weight). I don t use a ground sheet (see R Perky below). Its 100 inches long so it fits me
                        Message 11 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
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                          Ken:

                          My SoLong 6 weighs 1lb 8.4 oz with pegs and bag (my carry weight).  I don't use a ground sheet (see R Perky below).  Its 100 inches long so it fits me nicely - I'm 6 ft tall and all of my kit and pack fit easily inside.  It is about 3/4 double wall so condensation is minimized or avoidable because it has so much room inside.  45 inch head room.  I tried the various single wall tents but got wet from condensation.  This tent is light weight but gets rid of most of the condensation issues.  Actually the only time I even noticed any was in the rainstorm Robert (earlier in this string) mentions.  Unlike some tarps it doesn't  need any trees or rocks to tie up to.

                          Joe

                           

                          From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kent.mclemore@...
                          Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:36 AM
                          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: [John Muir Trail] RE: new shelter: tent or tarp?

                           

                           

                           



                          ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <kenjessett@...> wrote:

                          Thanks. I'm trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target.

                          Ken.

                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Dodson <stuartdodson@...> wrote:

                          >
                          > I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm and now use it all the time so learnt the hard way.When woken up by poor conditions it is often too late.If the next day is not going to be sunny you are on a downer all day thinking how you are going to dry the bag.In a no fire area it is even worse.With the bivy and a silk liner you can sleep just with them if it is warm so gives some flexiblity.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > On Thursday, 24 October 2013, 2:03, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >  
                          > The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.
                          >
                          > Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.
                          >
                          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@" <kenjessett@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > Bob,
                          > >
                          > > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?
                          > >
                          > > Ken.
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > >
                          >

                        • johndittli
                          On shorter trips, I ve just used a bivy for many years. I did hike the entire JMT with a bivi only once; spent 3 hours hunkered in my rain gear waiting for the
                          Message 12 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
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                            On shorter trips, I've just used a bivy for many years. I did hike the entire JMT with a bivi only once; spent 3 hours hunkered in my rain gear waiting for the biggest Tcell to hit Crabtree in decades to go away. Not ideal for long periods of rain (which isn't all that likely in September).


                            Fly Creek UL 1 fast fly. Just over 1 lb, can sleep under the stars on the ground sheet, doesn't require trekking poles, semi free standing, 9 feet long plenty for you and gear. Relatively inexpensive.


                            If you go during bug season, take the tent too for another pound. Versatile and light, especially if you don't use trekking poles. 


                            John D

                            Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail

                            see book here



                            ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <jmacleish@...> wrote:

                            Ken:

                            My SoLong 6 weighs 1lb 8.4 oz with pegs and bag (my carry weight).  I don't use a ground sheet (see R Perky below).  Its 100 inches long so it fits me nicely - I'm 6 ft tall and all of my kit and pack fit easily inside.  It is about 3/4 double wall so condensation is minimized or avoidable because it has so much room inside.  45 inch head room.  I tried the various single wall tents but got wet from condensation.  This tent is light weight but gets rid of most of the condensation issues.  Actually the only time I even noticed any was in the rainstorm Robert (earlier in this string) mentions.  Unlike some tarps it doesn't  need any trees or rocks to tie up to.

                            Joe

                             

                            From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kent.mclemore@...
                            Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:36 AM
                            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: [John Muir Trail] RE: new shelter: tent or tarp?

                             

                             

                             



                            ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <kenjessett@...> wrote:

                            Thanks. I'm trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target.

                            Ken.

                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Dodson <stuartdodson@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm and now use it all the time so learnt the hard way.When woken up by poor conditions it is often too late.If the next day is not going to be sunny you are on a downer all day thinking how you are going to dry the bag.In a no fire area it is even worse.With the bivy and a silk liner you can sleep just with them if it is warm so gives some flexiblity.
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > On Thursday, 24 October 2013, 2:03, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >  
                            > The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.
                            >
                            > Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.
                            >
                            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@" <kenjessett@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > Bob,
                            > >
                            > > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?
                            > >
                            > > Ken.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                            > > >
                            > > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
                            > > >
                            > > >
                            > >
                            >

                          • Robert
                            I m not sure who this question was directed at, but I ll answer for me. My total shelter, ( Hexamid Solo, Bivy, Ti-stakes, and stuff bag weigh in at 15.2 ozs.
                            Message 13 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I'm not sure who this question was directed at, but I'll answer for me. My total shelter, ( Hexamid Solo, Bivy, Ti-stakes, and stuff bag weigh in at 15.2 ozs. on my postal scale. I really, prefer to not ever set up my tarp as I just like to sleep under the stars, but there are times you need the shelter.

                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Larry Beck <becklaurence@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > So, Adding the bivy, the tarp, the stakes and tie-lines.. how much does it weigh?
                              >
                              >
                              > Larry
                              >
                              >
                              > ________________________________
                              > From: "kent.mclemore@..." <kent.mclemore@...>
                              > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                              > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:35 AM
                              > Subject: [John Muir Trail] RE: new shelter: tent or tarp?
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >  
                              >
                              >  
                              > ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <kenjessett@> wrote:
                              > Thanks. I'm trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target. Ken.
                              > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Dodson <stuartdodson@> wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >> I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm and now use it all the time so learnt the hard way.When woken up by poor conditions it is often too late.If the next day is not going to be sunny you are on a downer all day thinking how you are going to dry the bag.In a no fire area it is even worse.With the bivy and a silk liner you can sleep just with them if it is warm so gives some flexiblity.
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >>
                              > >> On Thursday, 24 October 2013, 2:03, Robert <rnperky@> wrote:
                              > >>
                              > >>  
                              > >> The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.
                              > >>
                              > >> Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.
                              > >>
                              > >> --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@" <kenjessett@> wrote:
                              > >> >
                              > >> >
                              > >> > Bob,
                              > >> >
                              > >> > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?
                              > >> >
                              > >> > Ken.
                              > >> >
                              > >> >
                              > >> >
                              > >> > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                              > >> > >
                              > >> > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
                              > >> > >
                              > >> > >
                              > >> >
                              > >>
                              >
                            • Larry Beck
                              The question was directed to any who have an answer :)   I guess the general consensus is that this setup runs around 1 lb +/-. Not bad! Thanks for the
                              Message 14 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                The question was directed to any who have an answer :)
                                 
                                I guess the general consensus is that this setup runs around 1 lb +/-. Not bad!
                                Thanks for the response.
                                 
                                Larry
                                From: Robert <rnperky@...>
                                To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:05 PM
                                Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] RE: new shelter: tent or tarp?
                                 
                                I'm not sure who this question was directed at, but I'll answer for me. My total shelter, ( Hexamid Solo, Bivy, Ti-stakes, and stuff bag weigh in at 15.2 ozs. on my postal scale. I really, prefer to not ever set up my tarp as I just like to sleep under the stars, but there are times you need the shelter.

                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Larry Beck <becklaurence@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > So, Adding the bivy, the tarp, the stakes and tie-lines.. how much does it weigh?
                                >
                                >
                                > Larry
                                >
                                >
                                > ________________________________
                                > From: "kent.mclemore@..." <kent.mclemore@...>
                                > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:35 AM
                                > Subject: [John Muir Trail] RE: new shelter: tent or tarp?
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >  
                                >
                                >  
                                > ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <kenjessett@> wrote:
                                > Thanks. I'm trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target. Ken.
                                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Dodson <stuartdodson@> wrote:
                                > >>
                                > >> I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm and now use it all the time so learnt the hard way.When woken up by poor conditions it is often too late.If the next day is not going to be sunny you are on a downer all day thinking how you are going to dry the bag.In a no fire area it is even worse.With the bivy and a silk liner you can sleep just with them if it is warm so gives some flexiblity.
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >>
                                > >> On Thursday, 24 October 2013, 2:03, Robert <rnperky@> wrote:
                                > >>
                                > >>  
                                > >> The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.
                                > >>
                                > >> Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.
                                > >>
                                > >> --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@" <kenjessett@> wrote:
                                > >> >
                                > >> >
                                > >> > Bob,
                                > >> >
                                > >> > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?
                                > >> >
                                > >> > Ken.
                                > >> >
                                > >> >
                                > >> >
                                > >> > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                > >> > >
                                > >> > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
                                > >> > >
                                > >> > >
                                > >> >
                                > >>
                                >

                              • Robert
                                No problem Larry! I think one can easily get down to 1 - 11/2 lbs for a sleep system. There is a learning curve to tarps, and I do advise practicing setting
                                Message 15 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  No problem Larry! I think one can easily get down to 1 - 11/2 lbs for a sleep system. There is a learning curve to tarps, and I do advise practicing setting them up before heading out.

                                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Larry Beck <becklaurence@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > The question was directed to any who have an answer :)
                                  >  
                                  > I guess the general consensus is that this setup runs around 1 lb +/-. Not bad!
                                  > Thanks for the response.
                                  >
                                  > Larry
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ________________________________
                                  > From: Robert <rnperky@...>
                                  > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:05 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] RE: new shelter: tent or tarp?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >  
                                  >
                                  > I'm not sure who this question was directed at, but I'll answer for me. My total shelter, ( Hexamid Solo, Bivy, Ti-stakes, and stuff bag weigh in at 15.2 ozs. on my postal scale. I really, prefer to not ever set up my tarp as I just like to sleep under the stars, but there are times you need the shelter.
                                  >
                                  > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Larry Beck <becklaurence@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > So, Adding the bivy, the tarp, the stakes and tie-lines.. how much does it weigh?
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Larry
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ________________________________
                                  > > From: "kent.mclemore@" <kent.mclemore@>
                                  > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:35 AM
                                  > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] RE: new shelter: tent or tarp?
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >  
                                  > >
                                  > >  
                                  > > ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <kenjessett@> wrote:
                                  > > Thanks. I'm trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target. Ken.
                                  > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Dodson <stuartdodson@> wrote:
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm and now use it all the time so learnt the hard way.When woken up by poor conditions it is often too late.If the next day is not going to be sunny you are on a downer all day thinking how you are going to dry the bag.In a no fire area it is even worse.With the bivy and a silk liner you can sleep just with them if it is warm so gives some flexiblity.
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> On Thursday, 24 October 2013, 2:03, Robert <rnperky@> wrote:
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >>  
                                  > > >> The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.
                                  > > >>
                                  > > >> --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@" <kenjessett@> wrote:
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> > Bob,
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> > Ken.
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >> > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                  > > >> > >
                                  > > >> > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
                                  > > >> > >
                                  > > >> > >
                                  > > >> >
                                  > > >>
                                  > >
                                  >
                                • Dittli-Goethals
                                  Hey Robert; a 1-1.5lb sleeping *system? *Shelter, pad and bag/quilt for 16 oz? OK I ll bite? John D ... -- John Dittli/Leslie Goethals John Dittli Photography
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Hey Robert; a 1-1.5lb sleeping system? Shelter, pad and bag/quilt for 16 oz? OK I'll bite?

                                    John D


                                    On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                     

                                    No problem Larry! I think one can easily get down to 1 - 11/2 lbs for a sleep system. There is a learning curve to tarps, and I do advise practicing setting them up before heading out.

                                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Larry Beck <becklaurence@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > The question was directed to any who have an answer :)
                                    >  
                                    > I guess the general consensus is that this setup runs around 1 lb +/-. Not bad!
                                    > Thanks for the response.
                                    >
                                    > Larry
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > ________________________________
                                    > From: Robert <rnperky@...>
                                    > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                    > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:05 PM
                                    > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] RE: new shelter: tent or tarp?
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >  
                                    >
                                    > I'm not sure who this question was directed at, but I'll answer for me. My total shelter, ( Hexamid Solo, Bivy, Ti-stakes, and stuff bag weigh in at 15.2 ozs. on my postal scale. I really, prefer to not ever set up my tarp as I just like to sleep under the stars, but there are times you need the shelter.
                                    >
                                    > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Larry Beck <becklaurence@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > So, Adding the bivy, the tarp, the stakes and tie-lines.. how much does it weigh?
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > Larry
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > ________________________________
                                    > > From: "kent.mclemore@" <kent.mclemore@>
                                    > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                    > > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:35 AM
                                    > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] RE: new shelter: tent or tarp?
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >  
                                    > >
                                    > >  
                                    > > ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <kenjessett@> wrote:
                                    > > Thanks. I'm trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target. Ken.
                                    > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Dodson <stuartdodson@> wrote:
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >> I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm and now use it all the time so learnt the hard way.When woken up by poor conditions it is often too late.If the next day is not going to be sunny you are on a downer all day thinking how you are going to dry the bag.In a no fire area it is even worse.With the bivy and a silk liner you can sleep just with them if it is warm so gives some flexiblity.
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >> On Thursday, 24 October 2013, 2:03, Robert <rnperky@> wrote:
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >>  
                                    > > >> The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >> Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.
                                    > > >>
                                    > > >> --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@" <kenjessett@> wrote:
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >> > Bob,
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >> > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >> > Ken.
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >> > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                    > > >> > >
                                    > > >> > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
                                    > > >> > >
                                    > > >> > >
                                    > > >> >
                                    > > >>
                                    > >
                                    >




                                    --
                                    John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                                    John Dittli Photography
                                    www.johndittli.com
                                    760-934-3505 

                                    Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                    2010  IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner
                                  • Robert
                                    Oops. Good catch John! I meant shelter system;)
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Oops. Good catch John! I meant shelter system;)

                                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hey Robert; a 1-1.5lb sleeping *system? *Shelter, pad and bag/quilt for 16
                                      > oz? OK I'll bite?
                                      >
                                      > John D
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > **
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > No problem Larry! I think one can easily get down to 1 - 11/2 lbs for a
                                      > > sleep system. There is a learning curve to tarps, and I do advise
                                      > > practicing setting them up before heading out.
                                      > >
                                      > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Larry Beck <becklaurence@> wrote:
                                      > > >
                                      > > > The question was directed to any who have an answer :)
                                      > > > Â
                                      > > > I guess the general consensus is that this setup runs around 1 lb +/-.
                                      > > Not bad!
                                      > > > Thanks for the response.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Larry
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > ________________________________
                                      > > > From: Robert <rnperky@>
                                      > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:05 PM
                                      > > > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] RE: new shelter: tent or tarp?
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > > Â
                                      > > >
                                      > > > I'm not sure who this question was directed at, but I'll answer for me.
                                      > > My total shelter, ( Hexamid Solo, Bivy, Ti-stakes, and stuff bag weigh in
                                      > > at 15.2 ozs. on my postal scale. I really, prefer to not ever set up my
                                      > > tarp as I just like to sleep under the stars, but there are times you need
                                      > > the shelter.
                                      > > >
                                      > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Larry Beck <becklaurence@> wrote:
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > So, Adding the bivy, the tarp, the stakes and tie-lines.. how much
                                      > > does it weigh?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > Larry
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > ________________________________
                                      > > > > From: "kent.mclemore@" <kent.mclemore@>
                                      > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                      > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:35 AM
                                      > > > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] RE: new shelter: tent or tarp?
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > ÂÂ
                                      > > > >
                                      > > > > ÂÂ
                                      > > > > ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <kenjessett@> wrote:
                                      > > > > Thanks. I'm trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and
                                      > > the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target. Ken.
                                      > > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Dodson <stuartdodson@>
                                      > > wrote:
                                      > > > > >>
                                      > > > > >> I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds
                                      > > warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm
                                      > > and now use it all the time so learnt the hard way.When woken up by poor
                                      > > conditions it is often too late.If the next day is not going to be sunny
                                      > > you are on a downer all day thinking how you are going to dry the bag.In a
                                      > > no fire area it is even worse.With the bivy and a silk liner you can sleep
                                      > > just with them if it is warm so gives some flexiblity.
                                      > > > > >>
                                      > > > > >>
                                      > > > > >>
                                      > > > > >> On Thursday, 24 October 2013, 2:03, Robert <rnperky@> wrote:
                                      > > > > >>
                                      > > > > >> ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
                                      > > > > >> The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water
                                      > > resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I
                                      > > don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's
                                      > > really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site
                                      > > selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm
                                      > > not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.
                                      > > > > >>
                                      > > > > >> Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.
                                      > > > > >>
                                      > > > > >> --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@"
                                      > > <kenjessett@> wrote:
                                      > > > > >> >
                                      > > > > >> >
                                      > > > > >> > Bob,
                                      > > > > >> >
                                      > > > > >> > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel
                                      > > you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground
                                      > > sheet with it?
                                      > > > > >> >
                                      > > > > >> > Ken.
                                      > > > > >> >
                                      > > > > >> >
                                      > > > > >> >
                                      > > > > >> > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                      > > > > >> > >
                                      > > > > >> > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo
                                      > > has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes
                                      > > this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the
                                      > > Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the
                                      > > stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but
                                      > > provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it
                                      > > unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it
                                      > > keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
                                      > > > > >> > >
                                      > > > > >> > >
                                      > > > > >> >
                                      > > > > >>
                                      > > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --
                                      > John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                                      > John Dittli Photography
                                      > www.johndittli.com
                                      > 760-934-3505
                                      >
                                      > *Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail*
                                      > *2010 IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner*
                                      > http://johndittli.com/site/content/view/57/48/
                                      >
                                    • Dittli-Goethals
                                      Alright, I just needed to know if I m *THAT *out of touch! ;-) ... -- John Dittli/Leslie Goethals John Dittli Photography www.johndittli.com 760-934-3505 *Walk
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
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                                        Alright, I just needed to know if I'm THAT out of touch! ;-)


                                        On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 7:01 PM, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                         

                                        Oops. Good catch John! I meant shelter system;)

                                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Hey Robert; a 1-1.5lb sleeping *system? *Shelter, pad and bag/quilt for 16
                                        > oz? OK I'll bite?
                                        >
                                        > John D
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 5:53 PM, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > **
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > No problem Larry! I think one can easily get down to 1 - 11/2 lbs for a
                                        > > sleep system. There is a learning curve to tarps, and I do advise
                                        > > practicing setting them up before heading out.
                                        > >
                                        > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Larry Beck <becklaurence@> wrote:
                                        > > >
                                        > > > The question was directed to any who have an answer :)
                                        > > > Â
                                        > > > I guess the general consensus is that this setup runs around 1 lb +/-.
                                        > > Not bad!
                                        > > > Thanks for the response.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Larry
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > ________________________________
                                        > > > From: Robert <rnperky@>
                                        > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 3:05 PM
                                        > > > Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] RE: new shelter: tent or tarp?
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > > > Â
                                        > > >
                                        > > > I'm not sure who this question was directed at, but I'll answer for me.
                                        > > My total shelter, ( Hexamid Solo, Bivy, Ti-stakes, and stuff bag weigh in
                                        > > at 15.2 ozs. on my postal scale. I really, prefer to not ever set up my
                                        > > tarp as I just like to sleep under the stars, but there are times you need
                                        > > the shelter.
                                        > > >
                                        > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Larry Beck <becklaurence@> wrote:
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > So, Adding the bivy, the tarp, the stakes and tie-lines.. how much
                                        > > does it weigh?
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > Larry
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > ________________________________
                                        > > > > From: "kent.mclemore@" <kent.mclemore@>
                                        > > > > To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                        > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:35 AM
                                        > > > > Subject: [John Muir Trail] RE: new shelter: tent or tarp?
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > ÂÂ
                                        > > > >
                                        > > > > ÂÂ
                                        > > > > ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <kenjessett@> wrote:
                                        > > > > Thanks. I'm trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and
                                        > > the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target. Ken.
                                        > > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Dodson <stuartdodson@>
                                        > > wrote:
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds
                                        > > warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm
                                        > > and now use it all the time so learnt the hard way.When woken up by poor
                                        > > conditions it is often too late.If the next day is not going to be sunny
                                        > > you are on a downer all day thinking how you are going to dry the bag.In a
                                        > > no fire area it is even worse.With the bivy and a silk liner you can sleep
                                        > > just with them if it is warm so gives some flexiblity.
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> On Thursday, 24 October 2013, 2:03, Robert <rnperky@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
                                        > > > > >> The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water
                                        > > resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I
                                        > > don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's
                                        > > really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site
                                        > > selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm
                                        > > not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > > >> --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@"
                                        > > <kenjessett@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >> >
                                        > > > > >> >
                                        > > > > >> > Bob,
                                        > > > > >> >
                                        > > > > >> > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel
                                        > > you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground
                                        > > sheet with it?
                                        > > > > >> >
                                        > > > > >> > Ken.
                                        > > > > >> >
                                        > > > > >> >
                                        > > > > >> >
                                        > > > > >> > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                        > > > > >> > >
                                        > > > > >> > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo
                                        > > has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes
                                        > > this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the
                                        > > Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the
                                        > > stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but
                                        > > provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it
                                        > > unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it
                                        > > keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
                                        > > > > >> > >
                                        > > > > >> > >
                                        > > > > >> >
                                        > > > > >>
                                        > > > >
                                        > > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                                        > John Dittli Photography
                                        > www.johndittli.com
                                        > 760-934-3505
                                        >
                                        > *Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail*
                                        > *2010 IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner*
                                        > http://johndittli.com/site/content/view/57/48/
                                        >




                                        --
                                        John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                                        John Dittli Photography
                                        www.johndittli.com
                                        760-934-3505 

                                        Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                        2010  IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner
                                      • scriv.ener
                                        My 8x10 silny tarp (Campmor), sectional aluminum poles (ditto), tie-outs (hardware store) and stakes (REI), with Tyvec ground cloth, came in at 1.5 pounds.
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
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                                          My 8x10 silny tarp (Campmor), sectional aluminum poles (ditto), tie-outs (hardware store) and stakes (REI), with Tyvec ground cloth, came in at 1.5 pounds.  Using local shelter (rocks, trees) and adjusting the pitch, I've stayed dry and warm.  Except for once, when I was just learning how to do the pitching.  And I've since switched to a 3.5 pound tent.


                                          ~ Jeffrey



                                          ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                          Thanks. I'm trying to find a way to reduce the weight of my pack - and the 3 1/2 lbs in the tent is an obvious target.

                                          Ken.

                                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Stuart Dodson <stuartdodson@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I use the Equinox pertex bivy (6oz) with my down bag, it also adds warmth.Only had one panic without it during a roll a round 3hr thunderstorm and now use it all the time so learnt the hard way.When woken up by poor conditions it is often too late.If the next day is not going to be sunny you are on a downer all day thinking how you are going to dry the bag.In a no fire area it is even worse.With the bivy and a silk liner you can sleep just with them if it is warm so gives some flexiblity.
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On Thursday, 24 October 2013, 2:03, Robert <rnperky@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >  
                                          > The Superlight bivy is waterproof on the bottom and highly water resistant on top, so I wouldn't use it as a stand alone shelter. No, I don't use a ground cloth. Even when I take my Tarptent Moment out when it's really buggy, I haven't seen the need for a ground cloth with proper site selection and a little site prep such as moving pinecones and sticks. I'm not sure I'd want to be in a bivy for any prolonged storms either.
                                          >
                                          > Edit- it's the Hexamid Solo with the extended beak.
                                          >
                                          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@" <kenjessett@> wrote:
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > Bob,
                                          > >
                                          > > Could you use the bivy as a lone sleeping source, or do you feel you have to have the Hexamid? Also, with the bivy, do you use a ground sheet with it?
                                          > >
                                          > > Ken.
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > >
                                          > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                          > > >
                                          > > > I'm not sure if its considered a true tarp, but my Hexamid Solo has served me well during many downpours, including one at Palisades Lakes this year that ranks as the worst thunderstorm I have encountered in the Sierras! I only use it if rain is threatening, otherwise I sleep under the stars in a Superlight Bivy. The bivy adds 6.5 ozs to my sleep system, but provides splash protection and a wind block if it gets breezy. I keep it unzipped most of the time to alleviate any internal condensation and it keeps my pad and sleeping bag contained as well.
                                          > > >
                                          > > >
                                          > >
                                          >
                                        • Don Amundson
                                          All this talk about tarps/tents and system weights induced me to weigh in here. I used to have all my gear weight in my head but once I got the weight down
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Oct 24, 2013
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                                            All this talk about tarps/tents and system weights induced me to "weigh" in here.
                                            I used to have all my gear weight in my head but once I got the weight down to a certain level I don't think to much about it anymore. But for what it's worth and in case anyone is interested--
                                            My system is a Six Moons Design Wild Oasis "tarp" which is simply a floor-less tent with a bug screen skirting at the base.  In the Sierra I combine that with a Zpacks poncho groundsheet  (does double duty as rain gear and a ground cloth), 8 stakes (two are extras), stake sack and a 2 gallon ziplok to put everything in.  I use the zip lok bag for laundering clothes also.  Total weight 21.10oz. 
                                            On local hikes with no threat of rain I use a shrink film groundsheet instead of the poncho;  Total weight 17.90oz. 
                                            I do have a GoLite Poncho Tarp that I sometime use on short trips.  That  system weighs around 11oz. 
                                            I prefer to use my SMD system in the Sierra simply because of the likelihood of having a spell of "bad" weather on any trip longer than a week. 
                                            I readily agree with Robert--if you decide to use a tarp practice setting it up and definitely put some trail nights under your belt using it.  That goes for any new gear for that matter. 

                                            -----------------------------------------
                                            > > No problem Larry! I think one can easily get down to 1 - 11/2 lbs for a
                                            > > sleep system. There is a learning curve to tarps, and I do advise
                                            > > practicing setting them up before heading out.


                                            > > > I'm not sure who this question was directed at, but I'll answer for me.
                                            > > My total shelter, ( Hexamid Solo, Bivy, Ti-stakes, and stuff bag weigh in
                                            > > at 15.2 ozs. on my postal scale. I really, prefer to not ever set up my
                                            > > tarp as I just like to sleep under the stars, but there are times you need
                                            > > the shelter.
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Larry Beck <becklaurence@> wrote:
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > So, Adding the bivy, the tarp, the stakes and tie-lines.. how much
                                            > > does it weigh?
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Larry
                                            >


                                          • herbstroh
                                            My Wild Oasis tarp is 13 ounces. It has bug netting going from the edge of the tarp to the ground to help with bug control. I couple it with a ti goat bivy, 5
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Oct 25, 2013
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                                              My Wild Oasis tarp is 13 ounces. It has bug netting going from the edge of the tarp to the ground to help with bug control. I couple it with a ti goat bivy, 5 ounces.


                                              Tarps are a bit more effort to set up, but the task gets easier with practice. If I wake up to condensation issues, I wipe down the inside with my bandana before getting dressed.


                                              I agree with the comments on a related thread that weight matters. Yes, it does help to lose body weight and I know John L has referenced army studies to argue all weight reduction has the same effect on energy needed to move a body down the trail. But energy expenditure is not necessarily the same thing as hiking comfort and physical fatigue. I believe reducing pack weight by three pounds will have a far greater impact on easing physical fatigue than a corresponding reduction in body weight, even if the actual energy expenditure remains the same. Weight in a pack on your back, regardless how comfortable the pack is, is an unnatural way to carry weight. Three pounds scattered about my body still allows the same movement and causes no additional stress to shoulders and hips. It is far more natural, and in my opinion, generates less physical fatigue than the same weight strapped on to my body. The end result is greater comfort while hiking long days.


                                              I don't have studies to support that contention, just 35 years of hiking experience. 


                                              Herb





                                              ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <amrowinc@...> wrote:

                                              All this talk about tarps/tents and system weights induced me to "weigh" in here.
                                              I used to have all my gear weight in my head but once I got the weight down to a certain level I don't think to much about it anymore. But for what it's worth and in case anyone is interested--
                                              My system is a Six Moons Design Wild Oasis "tarp" which is simply a floor-less tent with a bug screen skirting at the base.  In the Sierra I combine that with a Zpacks poncho groundsheet  (does double duty as rain gear and a ground cloth), 8 stakes (two are extras), stake sack and a 2 gallon ziplok to put everything in.  I use the zip lok bag for laundering clothes also.  Total weight 21.10oz. 
                                              On local hikes with no threat of rain I use a shrink film groundsheet instead of the poncho;  Total weight 17.90oz. 
                                              I do have a GoLite Poncho Tarp that I sometime use on short trips.  That  system weighs around 11oz. 
                                              I prefer to use my SMD system in the Sierra simply because of the likelihood of having a spell of "bad" weather on any trip longer than a week. 
                                              I readily agree with Robert--if you decide to use a tarp practice setting it up and definitely put some trail nights under your belt using it.  That goes for any new gear for that matter. 

                                              -----------------------------------------
                                              > > No problem Larry! I think one can easily get down to 1 - 11/2 lbs for a
                                              > > sleep system. There is a learning curve to tarps, and I do advise
                                              > > practicing setting them up before heading out.


                                              > > > I'm not sure who this question was directed at, but I'll answer for me.
                                              > > My total shelter, ( Hexamid Solo, Bivy, Ti-stakes, and stuff bag weigh in
                                              > > at 15.2 ozs. on my postal scale. I really, prefer to not ever set up my
                                              > > tarp as I just like to sleep under the stars, but there are times you need
                                              > > the shelter.
                                              > > >
                                              > > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Larry Beck <becklaurence@> wrote:
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > So, Adding the bivy, the tarp, the stakes and tie-lines.. how much
                                              > > does it weigh?
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > >
                                              > > > > Larry
                                              >


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