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Re: Now My Search for the JMT

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  • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
    I do carry a concealed weapon but i m not sure about taking it yet, Cat s story , may have convinced me to take it Sure, go into the wilderness and kill an
    Message 1 of 13 , Oct 1, 2013
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      "I do carry a concealed weapon but i'm not sure about taking it yet, Cat's story , may have convinced me to take it"

      Sure, go into the wilderness and kill an animal that lives there, why not?

      Ken.
    • John Ladd
      Ken -- This seems harsh. The two stories of mountain lion stalkings this year were very strange animal behavior and worth being concerned about. Strange enough
      Message 2 of 13 , Oct 1, 2013
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        Ken -- This seems harsh. The two stories of mountain lion stalkings this year were very strange animal behavior and worth being concerned about.  Strange enough that I suppose -- if I knew how to use a gun safely and was carrying it -- I think I would have had it out and handy so I could use it if attacked.

        It's still not my opinion that firearms are worth the weight. And I suspect that an accidental discharge is statistically more likely than actual usefulness in the almost unknown case of an animal attack in the Sierra. But if there ever were a reason for bringing one, the two very strange mtn. lion stories this year (Cat's and the one earlier involving a solo woman PCT hiker) would be it.

        John Curran Ladd
        1616 Castro Street
        San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
        415-648-9279


        On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:04 PM, kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net <kenjessett@...> wrote:
         

        "I do carry a concealed weapon but i'm not sure about taking it yet, Cat's story , may have convinced me to take it"

        Sure, go into the wilderness and kill an animal that lives there, why not?

        Ken.
      • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
        John, So now that we have had an hysterical report from a woman about a lion sighting, we are now expected to be ranging the wilderness with guns in hand? I
        Message 3 of 13 , Oct 1, 2013
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          John,

          So now that we have had an hysterical report from a woman about a lion sighting, we are now expected to be ranging the wilderness with guns in hand?

          I don't understand this obsession Americans have with guns, no other country has as many guns as America. Who are you afraid of, each other? Who are you going to use the guns on, again, each other?

          It's crazy, and I believe you know it.

          Ken.

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
          >
          > Ken -- This seems harsh. The two stories of mountain lion stalkings this
          > year were very strange animal behavior and worth being concerned about.
          > Strange enough that I suppose -- if I knew how to use a gun safely and was
          > carrying it -- I think I would have had it out and handy so I could use it
          > if attacked.
          >
          > It's still *not* my opinion that firearms are worth the weight. And I
          > suspect that an accidental discharge is statistically more likely than
          > actual usefulness in the almost unknown case of an animal attack in the
          > Sierra. But if there ever were a reason for bringing one, the two very
          > strange mtn. lion stories this year (Cat's and the one earlier involving a
          > solo woman PCT hiker) would be it.
          >
          > John Curran Ladd
          > 1616 Castro Street
          > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
          > 415-648-9279
          >
          >
          > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:04 PM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett
          > @...> wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > "I do carry a concealed weapon but i'm not sure about taking it yet, Cat's
          > > story , may have convinced me to take it"
          > >
          > > Sure, go into the wilderness and kill an animal that lives there, why not?
          > >
          > > Ken.
          > >
          >
        • shawn peterson
          Take it easy...you re looking rather confrontational and border line rude.  If you want someone to take your opinion into consideration try a respectful
          Message 4 of 13 , Oct 1, 2013
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            Take it easy...you're looking rather confrontational and border line rude.  If you want someone to take your opinion into consideration try a respectful approach....


            From: "kennethjessett@..." <kenjessett@...>
            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, October 1, 2013 3:04 PM
            Subject: [John Muir Trail] Re: Now My Search for the JMT

             
            "I do carry a concealed weapon but i'm not sure about taking it yet, Cat's story , may have convinced me to take it"

            Sure, go into the wilderness and kill an animal that lives there, why not?

            Ken.



          • Ray Rippel
            Good day, I, too, have gone on record on my blog and in my book as stating, unequivocally, that there is no need for firearms on the JMT. That said, I have big
            Message 5 of 13 , Oct 1, 2013
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              Good day, 

              I, too, have gone on record on my blog and in my book as stating, unequivocally, that there is no need for firearms on the JMT. That said, I have big problems with how this exchange is going. It seems to me that John's and Ravi's comments have been deliberately twisted to the point that their original meaning is unrecognizable.

                 1. "Cat's story, may have convinced me to take [a firearm]" does not in any way equate to "...go into the wilderness and kill an animal that lives there..." The first is being prepared to shoot an animal that is attacking you, the second is called "hunting."

                 2. "It's crazy, and I believe you know it." Spoken like a man who doesn't know John. Mr. Ladd may have occasionally reasoned his way to the wrong conclusion (although I have no examples of that), but he is just about the most rational, careful, and methodical thinker you could possibly encounter. (Oh, and had a long and enormously successful career where rational, careful and methodical thinking was absolutely necessary.)

                 3. "...hysterical report from a woman about a lion sighting..."  Yep, no need to pay any attention to hysterical women. Oh boy. Do people still really think this way? (Perhaps I'm a little sensitive to this after watching TWO mother/daughter teams successfully finish the JMT at the same time I was doing my hike.)

              Good hiking, Ray


              On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 1:35 PM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
               

              John,

              So now that we have had an hysterical report from a woman about a lion sighting, we are now expected to be ranging the wilderness with guns in hand?

              I don't understand this obsession Americans have with guns, no other country has as many guns as America. Who are you afraid of, each other? Who are you going to use the guns on, again, each other?

              It's crazy, and I believe you know it.

              Ken.



              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
              >
              > Ken -- This seems harsh. The two stories of mountain lion stalkings this
              > year were very strange animal behavior and worth being concerned about.
              > Strange enough that I suppose -- if I knew how to use a gun safely and was
              > carrying it -- I think I would have had it out and handy so I could use it
              > if attacked.
              >
              > It's still *not* my opinion that firearms are worth the weight. And I

              > suspect that an accidental discharge is statistically more likely than
              > actual usefulness in the almost unknown case of an animal attack in the
              > Sierra. But if there ever were a reason for bringing one, the two very
              > strange mtn. lion stories this year (Cat's and the one earlier involving a
              > solo woman PCT hiker) would be it.
              >
              > John Curran Ladd
              > 1616 Castro Street
              > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
              > 415-648-9279
              >
              >
              > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:04 PM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett
              > @gmail.com> wrote:
              >
              > > **

              > >
              > >
              > > "I do carry a concealed weapon but i'm not sure about taking it yet, Cat's
              > > story , may have convinced me to take it"
              > >
              > > Sure, go into the wilderness and kill an animal that lives there, why not?
              > >
              > > Ken.
              > >
              >


            • John Ladd
              Ken -- I don t think Cat was being hysterical and there s no reason add a gratuitous insult to her to your insult of James. She s a positive, upbeat woman who
              Message 6 of 13 , Oct 1, 2013
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                Ken --

                I don't think Cat was being hysterical and there's no reason add a gratuitous insult to her to your insult of James. She's a positive, upbeat woman who was in a tough situation. She was rightfully scared because it is VERY unusual for a mountain lion to behave as that one was behaving. And when animals display such uncharacteristic behavior, it is hard to judge what they will do next. The lion did nothing. But she had no way of knowing that in advance. The similar incident earlier this year was added reason for concern. 

                PS: One doesn't have to be even as old as I am to think of Bobby Riggs when a woman is called "hysterical". That's another place we don't want to go. Didn't work well for Bobby. For the underage or non-US members, see here.


                I do agree with you that we are unusually obsessed with firearms here in the US. IMHO, many Americans badly over-estimate their utility. Any careful look at the data suggests gun ownership is more likely to kill you or your family than to protect you or them. I grew up around firearms and would NOT have one in my house.

                Our Supreme Court has established a Constitutional right to bear personal firearms and in the context of the U.S. we owe that ruling some respect. Its the law of the land. Even those of us who thought it was wrong owe it that recognition.  

                Your post suggested that someone with a legal right to bear a firearm somehow should refrain from using it when actually attacked by a mountain lion.  I did NOT suggest it was wise to carry one. Only that I recognize that someone who is legally carrying one had a right to self-defense if attacked by an animal quite capable of killing someone (not if merely stalked).

                I love mountain lions and would hate to see one shot. But if it did come down to the choice between a human life and a mountain lion's, humans get my vote. You are free to disagree, but please let's keep it civil.

                I find it deeply ironic to be among those appearing to defend gun rights. But we do have courtesy standards to maintain here.

                John Curran Ladd
                1616 Castro Street
                San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                415-648-9279


                On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 4:35 PM, kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                 

                John,

                So now that we have had an hysterical report from a woman about a lion sighting, we are now expected to be ranging the wilderness with guns in hand?

                I don't understand this obsession Americans have with guns, no other country has as many guns as America. Who are you afraid of, each other? Who are you going to use the guns on, again, each other?

                It's crazy, and I believe you know it.

                Ken.



                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                >
                > Ken -- This seems harsh. The two stories of mountain lion stalkings this
                > year were very strange animal behavior and worth being concerned about.
                > Strange enough that I suppose -- if I knew how to use a gun safely and was
                > carrying it -- I think I would have had it out and handy so I could use it
                > if attacked.
                >
                > It's still *not* my opinion that firearms are worth the weight. And I

                > suspect that an accidental discharge is statistically more likely than
                > actual usefulness in the almost unknown case of an animal attack in the
                > Sierra. But if there ever were a reason for bringing one, the two very
                > strange mtn. lion stories this year (Cat's and the one earlier involving a
                > solo woman PCT hiker) would be it.
                >
                > John Curran Ladd
                > 1616 Castro Street
                > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                > 415-648-9279
                >
                >
                > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:04 PM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett
                > @gmail.com> wrote:
                >
                > > **

                > >
                > >
                > > "I do carry a concealed weapon but i'm not sure about taking it yet, Cat's
                > > story , may have convinced me to take it"
                > >
                > > Sure, go into the wilderness and kill an animal that lives there, why not?
                > >
                > > Ken.
                > >
                >


              • Roleigh Martin
                Can we continue this thread on the JohnMuirTrail_sidebar Yahoo Group? When it gets to the issue of guns in the backcountry, it s definitely a sidebar topic.
                Message 7 of 13 , Oct 1, 2013
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                  Can we continue this thread on the JohnMuirTrail_sidebar Yahoo Group?  When it gets to the issue of guns in the backcountry, it's definitely a sidebar topic.  I really encourage the thread to continue over there, that is exactly what it is there for.

                  Thanks!
                  Roleigh



                  -------------------------------------------------
                  Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                  _



                  On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 7:35 PM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                   

                  John,

                  So now that we have had an hysterical report from a woman about a lion sighting, we are now expected to be ranging the wilderness with guns in hand?

                  I don't understand this obsession Americans have with guns, no other country has as many guns as America. Who are you afraid of, each other? Who are you going to use the guns on, again, each other?

                  It's crazy, and I believe you know it.

                  Ken.



                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Ken -- This seems harsh. The two stories of mountain lion stalkings this
                  > year were very strange animal behavior and worth being concerned about.
                  > Strange enough that I suppose -- if I knew how to use a gun safely and was
                  > carrying it -- I think I would have had it out and handy so I could use it
                  > if attacked.
                  >
                  > It's still *not* my opinion that firearms are worth the weight. And I

                  > suspect that an accidental discharge is statistically more likely than
                  > actual usefulness in the almost unknown case of an animal attack in the
                  > Sierra. But if there ever were a reason for bringing one, the two very
                  > strange mtn. lion stories this year (Cat's and the one earlier involving a
                  > solo woman PCT hiker) would be it.
                  >
                  > John Curran Ladd
                  > 1616 Castro Street
                  > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                  > 415-648-9279
                  >
                  >
                  > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:04 PM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett
                  > @gmail.com> wrote:
                  >
                  > > **

                  > >
                  > >
                  > > "I do carry a concealed weapon but i'm not sure about taking it yet, Cat's
                  > > story , may have convinced me to take it"
                  > >
                  > > Sure, go into the wilderness and kill an animal that lives there, why not?
                  > >
                  > > Ken.
                  > >
                  >


                • jamesrchristopherson
                  Roleigh, That wasn t my goal of the discussion, sorry about that. Im more concerned with getting the basics from all of you experts so that I can begin to
                  Message 8 of 13 , Oct 1, 2013
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                    Roleigh,

                     

                    That wasn't my goal of the discussion, sorry about that. 

                     

                    Im more concerned with getting the basics from all of you "experts" so that I can begin to plan my own trek next year.

                     

                    James 



                    ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Can we continue this thread on the JohnMuirTrail_sidebar Yahoo Group?  When it gets to the issue of guns in the backcountry, it's definitely a sidebar topic.  I really encourage the thread to continue over there, that is exactly what it is there for.

                    Thanks!
                    Roleigh



                    -------------------------------------------------
                    Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                    _



                    On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 7:35 PM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                     

                    John,

                    So now that we have had an hysterical report from a woman about a lion sighting, we are now expected to be ranging the wilderness with guns in hand?

                    I don't understand this obsession Americans have with guns, no other country has as many guns as America. Who are you afraid of, each other? Who are you going to use the guns on, again, each other?

                    It's crazy, and I believe you know it.

                    Ken.



                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Ken -- This seems harsh. The two stories of mountain lion stalkings this
                    > year were very strange animal behavior and worth being concerned about.
                    > Strange enough that I suppose -- if I knew how to use a gun safely and was
                    > carrying it -- I think I would have had it out and handy so I could use it
                    > if attacked.
                    >
                    > It's still *not* my opinion that firearms are worth the weight. And I

                    > suspect that an accidental discharge is statistically more likely than
                    > actual usefulness in the almost unknown case of an animal attack in the
                    > Sierra. But if there ever were a reason for bringing one, the two very
                    > strange mtn. lion stories this year (Cat's and the one earlier involving a
                    > solo woman PCT hiker) would be it.
                    >
                    > John Curran Ladd
                    > 1616 Castro Street
                    > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                    > 415-648-9279
                    >
                    >
                    > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:04 PM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett
                    > @gmail.com> wrote:
                    >
                    > > **

                    > >
                    > >
                    > > "I do carry a concealed weapon but i'm not sure about taking it yet, Cat's
                    > > story , may have convinced me to take it"
                    > >
                    > > Sure, go into the wilderness and kill an animal that lives there, why not?
                    > >
                    > > Ken.
                    > >
                    >


                  • whcobbs
                    James, Really, you are not going to be solo, so long as you are on the trail. I hiked from TM to Whitney Portal 27 August--15 September 2013. I never went more
                    Message 9 of 13 , Oct 2, 2013
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                       James,

                       

                      Really, you are not going to be solo, so long as you are on the trail.  I hiked from TM to Whitney Portal 27 August--15 September 2013.  I never went more than 2 hours without human contact.  The sole exception occurred when I took the wrong turn near Devil's Postpile and ended up on the trail to Fern Lake.  After about 2 hours I realized I hadn't met anyone, so I checked my GPS, leading to a turnaround.  On the access trails for resupply, in this case Bishop Pass and Kearsarge Pass, pretty much the same rate of contact was the rule.  Descending from Mt Whitney, I found myself at Whitney Junction about 3:30 PM, but it was easy to join a friendly group for the headlamp march 11 miles out to Whitney Portal, and a ride to my waiting motel.  Also, people are generous to hikers, in the form of rides to trail heads.

                      Happy trails,

                      Walt



                      ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      I'm hoping to segment the JMT from Lake Edison to TM or HI, and was wondering if anyone can give me general info on doing that SOLO.  I have collected as much as my brain can hold off the internet, and the files on this site, and would like some real people contact.

                       

                      I am here in Fresno and my wife will drop me off and pick me back up on both ends so that's not a problem.  I am an experienced backpacker with the Scouts and probably have close to 1000 days and miles in my past.  I did half Dome this past summer by going to LYV and spending the night and then summiting and going home the next day.  The mileage was easy.  Im a runner doing 3 miles 4-5 times per week and a half marathon every once in a while.

                       

                      Thoughts I was wondering about for JMT are:

                       

                      miles/day

                      places to go fishing

                      go Northbound or Southbound

                                            I know NB out of Edison is easy to get the permit

                      dangers of being alone

                                     I do carry a concealed weapon but i'm not sure about taking it yet, Cat's

                                     story , may have convinced me to take it

                      bring a Sat phone or a SPOT device

                       

                      Remember not looking for specifics now, just trying to put the pencil to paper and see what I can come up with.

                       

                      Thank you in advance

                       

                      James

                       

                       

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