Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [John Muir Trail] Re: Rubber Trekking Pole Tip Protectors/Walking Tips

Expand Messages
  • johndittli
    Your kidding right? Maybe it s semantics, but if it s something that is discarded, whether purposely or not, it is litter!!! As an ex-ranger I can tell you
    Message 1 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
    • 0 Attachment

      Your kidding right? Maybe it's semantics, but if it's something that is discarded, whether purposely or not, it is litter!!! As an ex-ranger I can tell you that you can be sited for a wrapper that inadvertently falls out of your pocket. Likewise trash that might inadvertently blow away from camp. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE!!! Rubber tips ARE LITTER, and all that have read this thread now know that they are likely to fall off. So now, if they are left behind, it IS indeed deliberately discarded and there is absolutely no excuse. 


      I'll step down from my soap pox....


      JD



      ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      Litter?

      Not so, since beer bottles and candy wrappers are deliberately discarded, whereas the rubber tips are not.

      Ken.


      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Mark Liechty <news@...> wrote:
      >

      > >
      > Just a matter of what catches you eyes. I pick up about a dozen of these tips a year. They are litter, not unlike empty beer bottle or candy wrappers.
      >
    • John Ladd
      Since we are on the litter topic, here s a suggestion Get yourself into the mindset that most of the debris you see on the trial was probably NOT discarded
      Message 2 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Since we are on the litter topic, here's a suggestion

        Get yourself into the mindset that most of the debris you see on the trial was probably NOT discarded intentionally. Of the 10 or so items of trash that I picked up on my recent trip (including a mason jar of what appeared to be decades-old marijuana buds) my guess is that only one item had been discarded intentionally, I'm 100% certain the MJ was not intentional discarded - probably good stuff once upon a time.

        If you are annoyed with litter, pick it up and stuff it into your pocket or pack. (It helps to imagine that you are remedying someone else's mistake.) This will mean

        1) those following you will not be annoyed and if your habit spreads, you will be less annoyed in the future

        2) you will be making up for the stuff that you leave behind inadvertently

        John Curran Ladd
        1616 Castro Street
        San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
        415-648-9279


        On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 8:29 AM, <johndittli@...> wrote:
         

        Your kidding right? Maybe it's semantics, but if it's something that is discarded, whether purposely or not, it is litter!!! As an ex-ranger I can tell you that you can be sited for a wrapper that inadvertently falls out of your pocket. Likewise trash that might inadvertently blow away from camp. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE!!! Rubber tips ARE LITTER, and all that have read this thread now know that they are likely to fall off. So now, if they are left behind, it IS indeed deliberately discarded and there is absolutely no excuse. 


        I'll step down from my soap pox....


        JD



        ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        Litter?

        Not so, since beer bottles and candy wrappers are deliberately discarded, whereas the rubber tips are not.

        Ken.


        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Mark Liechty <news@...> wrote:
        >

        > >
        > Just a matter of what catches you eyes. I pick up about a dozen of these tips a year. They are litter, not unlike empty beer bottle or candy wrappers.
        >


      • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
        John Dittli, If there is no excuse for litter, there is also no excuse for a bad temper! Ken.
        Message 3 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          John Dittli,

          If there is no excuse for litter, there is also no excuse for a bad temper!

          Ken.
        • Dittli-Goethals
          Don t let my CAPS be misconstrued as temper, just an attempt to get a point across! ;-) JD On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:03 AM, kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
          Message 4 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            Don't let my CAPS be misconstrued as temper, just an attempt to get a point across! ;-)

            JD


            On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:03 AM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
             

            John Dittli,

            If there is no excuse for litter, there is also no excuse for a bad temper!

            Ken.




            --
            John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
            John Dittli Photography
            www.johndittli.com
            760-934-3505 

            Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
            2010  IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner
          • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
            Those of us who live in the cities pick up more litter in a week than you would find in a lifetime stalking the wilderness. I don t think we need to be
            Message 5 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              Those of us who live in the cities pick up more litter in a week than you would find in a lifetime stalking the wilderness. I don't think we need to be lectured on litter, particularly that 'litter' which falls off our equipment and which we sorely need.

              A little perspective please.

              Ken.

              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
              >
              > Don't let my CAPS be misconstrued as temper, just an attempt to get a point
              > across! ;-)
              >
              > JD
              >
              >
              > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:03 AM, kennethjessett@... <
              > kenjessett@...> wrote:
              >
              > > **
              > >
              > >
              > > John Dittli,
              > >
              > > If there is no excuse for litter, there is also no excuse for a bad temper!
              > >
              > > Ken.
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > --
              > John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
              > John Dittli Photography
              > www.johndittli.com
              > 760-934-3505
              >
              > *Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail*
              > *2010 IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner*
              > http://johndittli.com/site/content/view/57/48/
              >
            • ravi_jmt2013
              In most areas, I was pleasantly surprised to not see much litter at all. I picked up a small piece of blue foam, a couple of food wrappers, and a discarded
              Message 6 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                In most areas, I was pleasantly surprised to not see much litter at all.  I picked up a small piece of blue foam, a couple of food wrappers, and a discarded tent stake at various points along the trail.  All of these were probably left accidentally.  Closer to Mt. Whitney zone, the litter increased and seemed more intentional. I saw a very old glass jar which I didn't pick up because I didn't want something breakable in my pack.  A couple of abandoned horseshoes were at my camp near Crabtree Meadows.  There was no way I was going to touch the two abandoned wag bags. 

                Of course, I did not intentionally litter but I will admit that I lost one wool sock that I couldn't find despite searching for a long time. 


                ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                Since we are on the litter topic, here's a suggestion

                Get yourself into the mindset that most of the debris you see on the trial was probably NOT discarded intentionally. Of the 10 or so items of trash that I picked up on my recent trip (including a mason jar of what appeared to be decades-old marijuana buds) my guess is that only one item had been discarded intentionally, I'm 100% certain the MJ was not intentional discarded - probably good stuff once upon a time.

                If you are annoyed with litter, pick it up and stuff it into your pocket or pack. (It helps to imagine that you are remedying someone else's mistake.) This will mean

                1) those following you will not be annoyed and if your habit spreads, you will be less annoyed in the future

                2) you will be making up for the stuff that you leave behind inadvertently

                John Curran Ladd
                1616 Castro Street
                San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                415-648-9279


                On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 8:29 AM, <johndittli@...> wrote:
                 

                Your kidding right? Maybe it's semantics, but if it's something that is discarded, whether purposely or not, it is litter!!! As an ex-ranger I can tell you that you can be sited for a wrapper that inadvertently falls out of your pocket. Likewise trash that might inadvertently blow away from camp. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE!!! Rubber tips ARE LITTER, and all that have read this thread now know that they are likely to fall off. So now, if they are left behind, it IS indeed deliberately discarded and there is absolutely no excuse. 


                I'll step down from my soap pox....


                JD



                ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                Litter?

                Not so, since beer bottles and candy wrappers are deliberately discarded, whereas the rubber tips are not.

                Ken.


                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Mark Liechty <news@...> wrote:
                >

                > >
                > Just a matter of what catches you eyes. I pick up about a dozen of these tips a year. They are litter, not unlike empty beer bottle or candy wrappers.
                >

              • Dittli-Goethals
                No we don t need to be lectured on litter but apparently you do, if you seriously think unintentionally dropped trash is not litter as you suggested. A
                Message 7 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
                • 0 Attachment
                  No "we" don't need to be lectured on litter but apparently you do, if you seriously think "unintentionally dropped" trash is not litter as you suggested. 

                  A little perspective is easy and what you do in the city is irrelevant to what you need and in some cases are required to do, socially, environmentally and legally in Wilderness. Though taking what you do in wilderness to the city could make the city a better place. ;-)

                  For perspective, if you are going to "sorely miss" the rubber tip of your walking sticks, then you had better make sure they aren't going to fall off and get lost eh?

                  Lastly, I would seriously challenge the statement "Those of us who live in the cities pick up more litter in a week than [I} would find in a lifetime stalking the wilderness." LOL, If only you knew...

                  Please, tend to your trash, tend to your equipment and don't leave it out there for others to deal with

                  Thank you and happy trails.


                  JD




                  On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:28 AM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                   

                  Those of us who live in the cities pick up more litter in a week than you would find in a lifetime stalking the wilderness. I don't think we need to be lectured on litter, particularly that 'litter' which falls off our equipment and which we sorely need.

                  A little perspective please.

                  Ken.

                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Don't let my CAPS be misconstrued as temper, just an attempt to get a point
                  > across! ;-)
                  >
                  > JD
                  >
                  >
                  > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:03 AM, kennethjessett@... <
                  > kenjessett@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > **
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > John Dittli,
                  > >
                  > > If there is no excuse for litter, there is also no excuse for a bad temper!
                  > >
                  > > Ken.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --
                  > John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                  > John Dittli Photography
                  > www.johndittli.com
                  > 760-934-3505
                  >
                  > *Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail*
                  > *2010 IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner*
                  > http://johndittli.com/site/content/view/57/48/
                  >




                  --
                  John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                  John Dittli Photography
                  www.johndittli.com
                  760-934-3505 

                  Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                  2010  IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner
                • Mark Liechty
                  ... Guys, i was not trying to start a war when talking about the litter these rubber tips become. I First noticed them as a problem while hiking at the
                  Message 8 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On Oct 1, 2013, at 11:36 AM, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
                    No "we" don't need to be lectured on litter but apparently you do, if you seriously think "unintentionally dropped" trash is not litter as you suggested. 

                    Please, tend to your trash, tend to your equipment and don't leave it out there for others to deal with
                    ##########

                    Guys, i was not trying to start a war when talking about the litter these rubber tips become.

                    I First noticed them as a "problem" while hiking at the Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico.  About 250K Acres of the most clean trails you can imagine hiked by over 10,000 teenaged are year …. none of whom know how to clean a bedroom <grin>.

                    There were days when the only trash I found on the trail were a couple of these tips.  It became a bit of an obsession since you have to look to notice them and when back in north CA I now seldom go for a hike where i do not see at least one of them.

                    I am 100% certain that those who lose them are not trying to make a mess and my point in the observation is that these things are great to keep from poking a hole in your pack during travel but not so much for use on the trail.

                    They probably do much better in the city on sidewalk but then why would you be using the poles?


                  • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                    Oh dear! I think you need to go and lie down John, something is obviously amiss. Ken.
                    Message 9 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Oh dear!

                      I think you need to go and lie down John, something is obviously amiss.

                      Ken.

                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > No "we" don't need to be lectured on litter but apparently you do, if you
                      > seriously think "unintentionally dropped" trash is not litter as you
                      > suggested.
                      >
                      > A little perspective is easy and what you do in the city is irrelevant to
                      > what you need and in some cases are required to do, socially,
                      > environmentally and legally in Wilderness. Though taking what you do in
                      > wilderness to the city could make the city a better place. ;-)
                      >
                      > For perspective, if you are going to "sorely miss" the rubber tip of your
                      > walking sticks, then you had better make sure they aren't going to fall off
                      > and get lost eh?
                      >
                      > Lastly, I would seriously challenge the statement "Those of us who live in
                      > the cities pick up more litter in a week than [I} would find in a lifetime
                      > stalking the wilderness." LOL, If only you knew...
                      >
                      > Please, tend to your trash, tend to your equipment and don't leave it out
                      > there for others to deal with
                      >
                      > Thank you and happy trails.
                      >
                      >
                      > JD
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:28 AM, kennethjessett@... <
                      > kenjessett@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > **
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Those of us who live in the cities pick up more litter in a week than you
                      > > would find in a lifetime stalking the wilderness. I don't think we need to
                      > > be lectured on litter, particularly that 'litter' which falls off our
                      > > equipment and which we sorely need.
                      > >
                      > > A little perspective please.
                      > >
                      > > Ken.
                      > >
                      > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Don't let my CAPS be misconstrued as temper, just an attempt to get a
                      > > point
                      > > > across! ;-)
                      > > >
                      > > > JD
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:03 AM, kennethjessett@ <
                      > > > kenjessett@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > > **
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > John Dittli,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > If there is no excuse for litter, there is also no excuse for a bad
                      > > temper!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Ken.
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --
                      > > > John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                      > > > John Dittli Photography
                      > > > www.johndittli.com
                      > > > 760-934-3505
                      > > >
                      > > > *Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail*
                      > > > *2010 IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner*
                      > > > http://johndittli.com/site/content/view/57/48/
                      > > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --
                      > John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                      > John Dittli Photography
                      > www.johndittli.com
                      > 760-934-3505
                      >
                      > *Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail*
                      > *2010 IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner*
                      > http://johndittli.com/site/content/view/57/48/
                      >
                    • Dittli-Goethals
                      As I stated in a previous post, I have a collection of the things myself. But it goes WAY beyond pole tips. Of course people aren t trying to loose them, that
                      Message 10 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        As I stated in a previous post, I have a collection of the things myself. But it goes WAY beyond pole tips. Of course people aren't trying to loose them, that is why those of us that pick them up are making the point; they fall off. 

                        ~3500 JMT thru permits were written in Yosemite alone this summer. Thousands of others were written from other trailheads. We, as a collective group, have to be hyper aware of what were doing out there. We can't afford to just "blow it off" and say "oh I didn't mean to drop that". 

                        If we know something is a potential problem, we ALL need to address that problem. The cumulative impacts by us all are staggering and you usually won't notice them until you've worked and lived out there. It can all work, but we really need to stay on top of it.

                        JD




                        On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Mark Liechty <news@...> wrote:
                         

                        On Oct 1, 2013, at 11:36 AM, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
                        No "we" don't need to be lectured on litter but apparently you do, if you seriously think "unintentionally dropped" trash is not litter as you suggested. 

                        Please, tend to your trash, tend to your equipment and don't leave it out there for others to deal with
                        ##########

                        Guys, i was not trying to start a war when talking about the litter these rubber tips become.

                        I First noticed them as a "problem" while hiking at the Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico.  About 250K Acres of the most clean trails you can imagine hiked by over 10,000 teenaged are year …. none of whom know how to clean a bedroom <grin>.

                        There were days when the only trash I found on the trail were a couple of these tips.  It became a bit of an obsession since you have to look to notice them and when back in north CA I now seldom go for a hike where i do not see at least one of them.

                        I am 100% certain that those who lose them are not trying to make a mess and my point in the observation is that these things are great to keep from poking a hole in your pack during travel but not so much for use on the trail.

                        They probably do much better in the city on sidewalk but then why would you be using the poles?





                        --
                        John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                        John Dittli Photography
                        www.johndittli.com
                        760-934-3505 

                        Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                        2010  IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner
                      • calbirder436
                        Sent from Windows Mail From: kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎October‎ ‎1‎, ‎2013 ‎6‎:‎48‎ ‎AM To:
                        Message 11 of 23 , Oct 18, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                           
                           
                          Sent from Windows Mail
                           
                          From: kennethjessett@...
                          Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎October‎ ‎1‎, ‎2013 ‎6‎:‎48‎ ‎AM
                          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                           
                           

                          The rubber (plastic?) tips on my poles lasted less than a day. First one decided to hang around the trail and then the other went off to find him.

                          The odd thing is, with all the tap tap tapping going on with rubberless tips, you would think the trail would be full of them, but not a sighting anywhere. One of the great mysteries of life.

                          Ken.

                        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.