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Rubber Trekking Pole Tip Protectors/Walking Tips

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  • kent.mclemore
    I m considering these for the JMT next year but am wondering about durability. Will a pair last for 200+ miles of High Sierra hiking?
    Message 1 of 23 , Sep 30, 2013
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      I'm considering these for the JMT next year but am wondering about durability. Will a pair last for 200+ miles of High Sierra hiking? 
    • whcobbs
      Kent-- You will probably want carbide tips to deal with the mostly granite rock along the trail. Rubber tips are useful for protecting other gear from the
      Message 2 of 23 , Sep 30, 2013
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         Kent--

         

        You will probably want carbide tips to deal with the mostly granite rock along the trail.  Rubber tips are useful for protecting other gear from the points when you stow or ship your poles, but then wear is not an issue.

        Walt

        ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <ken,t.mclemore@...> wrote:

        I'm considering these for the JMT next year but am wondering about durability. Will a pair last for 200+ miles of High Sierra hiking? 
      • johndittli
        If I had a nickel for every rubber trekking pole protector I ve picked up.... . JD Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail see book here ---In
        Message 3 of 23 , Sep 30, 2013
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          If I had a nickel for every rubber trekking pole protector I've picked up.... .


          JD

          Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail

          see book here  



          ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <walter.cobbs@...> wrote:

           Kent--

           

          You will probably want carbide tips to deal with the mostly granite rock along the trail.  Rubber tips are useful for protecting other gear from the points when you stow or ship your poles, but then wear is not an issue.

          Walt

          ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <ken,t.mclemore@...> wrote:

          I'm considering these for the JMT next year but am wondering about durability. Will a pair last for 200+ miles of High Sierra hiking? 
        • John Ladd
          They ve done some research on the impact of carbide tipped trekking poles on trails. They don t seem to hurt trails in the Sierra and there is no reason to use
          Message 4 of 23 , Sep 30, 2013
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            They've done some research on the impact of carbide tipped trekking poles on trails. They don't seem to hurt trails in the Sierra and there is no reason to use the rubber protectors. I don't have time to find the study, but it is out there.

            However, the carbide tips are damaging to the wood bridges and I noticed a lot of bridge damage this year. People, PLEASE don't use your poles on bridges. The small nicks caused by the carbide tips are water entry and collection points leading to wood deterioration.

            John Curran Ladd
            1616 Castro Street
            San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
            415-648-9279


            On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 4:38 AM, <kent.mclemore@...> wrote:
             

            I'm considering these for the JMT next year but am wondering about durability. Will a pair last for 200+ miles of High Sierra hiking? 


          • kent.mclemore
            Thanks all. I intended to use them to reduce noise (clickety clack) and trail impact. It sounds like trail impact is not an issue, and if they don t hold up or
            Message 5 of 23 , Sep 30, 2013
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              Thanks all.

              I intended to use them to reduce noise (clickety clack) and trail impact. It sounds like trail impact is not an issue, and if they don't hold up or stay on the pole tips, they won't be reducing noise. I don't need rubber tips to protect my gear.  

              -km



              ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnladd@...> wrote:

              They've done some research on the impact of carbide tipped trekking poles on trails. They don't seem to hurt trails in the Sierra and there is no reason to use the rubber protectors. I don't have time to find the study, but it is out there.

              However, the carbide tips are damaging to the wood bridges and I noticed a lot of bridge damage this year. People, PLEASE don't use your poles on bridges. The small nicks caused by the carbide tips are water entry and collection points leading to wood deterioration.

              John Curran Ladd
              1616 Castro Street
              San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
              415-648-9279


              On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 4:38 AM, <kent.mclemore@...> wrote:
               

              I'm considering these for the JMT next year but am wondering about durability. Will a pair last for 200+ miles of High Sierra hiking? 


            • johndittli
              So hopefully you will notice immediately if they come off, as not to leave them on the trail... John ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com,
              Message 6 of 23 , Sep 30, 2013
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                So hopefully you will notice immediately if they come off, as not to leave them on the trail...


                John



                ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                Thanks all.

                I intended to use them to reduce noise (clickety clack) and trail impact. It sounds like trail impact is not an issue, and if they don't hold up or stay on the pole tips, they won't be reducing noise. I don't need rubber tips to protect my gear.  

                -km



                ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnladd@...> wrote:

                They've done some research on the impact of carbide tipped trekking poles on trails. They don't seem to hurt trails in the Sierra and there is no reason to use the rubber protectors. I don't have time to find the study, but it is out there.

                However, the carbide tips are damaging to the wood bridges and I noticed a lot of bridge damage this year. People, PLEASE don't use your poles on bridges. The small nicks caused by the carbide tips are water entry and collection points leading to wood deterioration.

                John Curran Ladd
                1616 Castro Street
                San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                415-648-9279


                On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 4:38 AM, <kent.mclemore@...> wrote:
                 

                I'm considering these for the JMT next year but am wondering about durability. Will a pair last for 200+ miles of High Sierra hiking? 


              • Jo T
                Kent- I really liked the rubber tips on my trekking poles, but didn t realize how much until one of the rock packed trails ate one of my tips. I was lucky in
                Message 7 of 23 , Sep 30, 2013
                Kent-
                I really liked the rubber tips on my trekking poles, but didn't realize how much until one of the rock packed trails ate one of my tips. I was lucky in that I didn't lose the first tip until the second half of the trip. The second tip, however, was fast to follow. I found that on creek crossings and on the trail in general, the rubber gave a little extra grip (non slip).
                Two pairs would probably do you for the whole trip.
                I did see a lot of the longer rubber thin tips on the trail. Mine were the shorter, thicker ones (for Black Diamond trekking poles). 

                I've attached a pic of the type of trail that ate my tips. Not sure what it's called, but beware!

                JoT.



                From: "kent.mclemore@..." <kent.mclemore@...>
                To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 4:38 AM
                Subject: [John Muir Trail] Rubber Trekking Pole Tip Protectors/Walking Tips

                 
                I'm considering these for the JMT next year but am wondering about durability. Will a pair last for 200+ miles of High Sierra hiking? 


              • rand
                They may not be required on the JMT......but I just got back from the Inca Trail to Machu Picchu and they were required there. I had two different style rubber
                Message 8 of 23 , Sep 30, 2013
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                  They may not be required on the JMT......but I just got back from the Inca Trail to Machu Picchu and they were required there.   I had two different style rubber tips with me.   One wore through the bottom in a day and the carbide tips were poking out after that.   The other style lasted much longer.   The worst style was the one  with a flat bottom......the better one had a rounded bottom with kind of a knurled surface.


                  Hope that helps.


                  Rand



                  ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <jotslibrarylist@...> wrote:

                  Kent-
                  I really liked the rubber tips on my trekking poles, but didn't realize how much until one of the rock packed trails ate one of my tips. I was lucky in that I didn't lose the first tip until the second half of the trip. The second tip, however, was fast to follow. I found that on creek crossings and on the trail in general, the rubber gave a little extra grip (non slip).
                  Two pairs would probably do you for the whole trip.
                  I did see a lot of the longer rubber thin tips on the trail. Mine were the shorter, thicker ones (for Black Diamond trekking poles). 

                  I've attached a pic of the type of trail that ate my tips. Not sure what it's called, but beware!

                  JoT.



                  From: "kent.mclemore@..." <kent.mclemore@...>
                  To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 4:38 AM
                  Subject: [John Muir Trail] Rubber Trekking Pole Tip Protectors/Walking Tips

                   
                  I'm considering these for the JMT next year but am wondering about durability. Will a pair last for 200+ miles of High Sierra hiking? 


                • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                  The rubber (plastic?) tips on my poles lasted less than a day. First one decided to hang around the trail and then the other went off to find him. The odd
                  Message 9 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
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                    The rubber (plastic?) tips on my poles lasted less than a day. First one decided to hang around the trail and then the other went off to find him.

                    The odd thing is, with all the tap tap tapping going on with rubberless tips, you would think the trail would be full of them, but not a sighting anywhere. One of the great mysteries of life.

                    Ken.
                  • Mark Liechty
                    ... Just a matter of what catches you eyes. I pick up about a dozen of these tips a year. They are litter, not unlike empty beer bottle or candy wrappers.
                    Message 10 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
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                      On Oct 1, 2013, at 6:48 AM, "kennethjessett@..." <kenjessett@...> wrote:

                       

                      The rubber (plastic?) tips on my poles lasted less than a day. First one decided to hang around the trail and then the other went off to find him.

                      The odd thing is, with all the tap tap tapping going on with rubberless tips, you would think the trail would be full of them, but not a sighting anywhere. One of the great mysteries of life.
                      #########

                      Just a matter of what catches you eyes.  I pick up about a dozen of these tips a year.  They are litter, not unlike empty beer bottle or candy wrappers.   
                    • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                      Litter? Not so, since beer bottles and candy wrappers are deliberately discarded, whereas the rubber tips are not. Ken.
                      Message 11 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
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                        Litter?

                        Not so, since beer bottles and candy wrappers are deliberately discarded, whereas the rubber tips are not.

                        Ken.


                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Mark Liechty <news@...> wrote:
                        >

                        > >
                        > Just a matter of what catches you eyes. I pick up about a dozen of these tips a year. They are litter, not unlike empty beer bottle or candy wrappers.
                        >
                      • Rick Martyn
                        It s interesting that we have such different views on what defines litter. To me, how the object got into the wilderness, or the intentions of the former
                        Message 12 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
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                          It's interesting that we have such different views on what defines litter.  

                          To me, how the object got into the wilderness, or the intentions of the former owner, has nothing to do with whether I consider the object litter or not.  I consider every bar wrapper I see along a trail as litter, even though I'm sure that most of them fell out of a pocket and were not thrown there deliberately.

                          Rick M.


                          On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 7:34 AM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                           


                          Litter?

                          Not so, since beer bottles and candy wrappers are deliberately discarded, whereas the rubber tips are not.

                          Ken.



                          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Mark Liechty <news@...> wrote:
                          >

                          > >
                          > Just a matter of what catches you eyes. I pick up about a dozen of these tips a year. They are litter, not unlike empty beer bottle or candy wrappers.
                          >


                        • johndittli
                          Your kidding right? Maybe it s semantics, but if it s something that is discarded, whether purposely or not, it is litter!!! As an ex-ranger I can tell you
                          Message 13 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
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                            Your kidding right? Maybe it's semantics, but if it's something that is discarded, whether purposely or not, it is litter!!! As an ex-ranger I can tell you that you can be sited for a wrapper that inadvertently falls out of your pocket. Likewise trash that might inadvertently blow away from camp. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE!!! Rubber tips ARE LITTER, and all that have read this thread now know that they are likely to fall off. So now, if they are left behind, it IS indeed deliberately discarded and there is absolutely no excuse. 


                            I'll step down from my soap pox....


                            JD



                            ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            Litter?

                            Not so, since beer bottles and candy wrappers are deliberately discarded, whereas the rubber tips are not.

                            Ken.


                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Mark Liechty <news@...> wrote:
                            >

                            > >
                            > Just a matter of what catches you eyes. I pick up about a dozen of these tips a year. They are litter, not unlike empty beer bottle or candy wrappers.
                            >
                          • John Ladd
                            Since we are on the litter topic, here s a suggestion Get yourself into the mindset that most of the debris you see on the trial was probably NOT discarded
                            Message 14 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
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                              Since we are on the litter topic, here's a suggestion

                              Get yourself into the mindset that most of the debris you see on the trial was probably NOT discarded intentionally. Of the 10 or so items of trash that I picked up on my recent trip (including a mason jar of what appeared to be decades-old marijuana buds) my guess is that only one item had been discarded intentionally, I'm 100% certain the MJ was not intentional discarded - probably good stuff once upon a time.

                              If you are annoyed with litter, pick it up and stuff it into your pocket or pack. (It helps to imagine that you are remedying someone else's mistake.) This will mean

                              1) those following you will not be annoyed and if your habit spreads, you will be less annoyed in the future

                              2) you will be making up for the stuff that you leave behind inadvertently

                              John Curran Ladd
                              1616 Castro Street
                              San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                              415-648-9279


                              On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 8:29 AM, <johndittli@...> wrote:
                               

                              Your kidding right? Maybe it's semantics, but if it's something that is discarded, whether purposely or not, it is litter!!! As an ex-ranger I can tell you that you can be sited for a wrapper that inadvertently falls out of your pocket. Likewise trash that might inadvertently blow away from camp. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE!!! Rubber tips ARE LITTER, and all that have read this thread now know that they are likely to fall off. So now, if they are left behind, it IS indeed deliberately discarded and there is absolutely no excuse. 


                              I'll step down from my soap pox....


                              JD



                              ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                              Litter?

                              Not so, since beer bottles and candy wrappers are deliberately discarded, whereas the rubber tips are not.

                              Ken.


                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Mark Liechty <news@...> wrote:
                              >

                              > >
                              > Just a matter of what catches you eyes. I pick up about a dozen of these tips a year. They are litter, not unlike empty beer bottle or candy wrappers.
                              >


                            • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                              John Dittli, If there is no excuse for litter, there is also no excuse for a bad temper! Ken.
                              Message 15 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
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                                John Dittli,

                                If there is no excuse for litter, there is also no excuse for a bad temper!

                                Ken.
                              • Dittli-Goethals
                                Don t let my CAPS be misconstrued as temper, just an attempt to get a point across! ;-) JD On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:03 AM, kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                                Message 16 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
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                                  Don't let my CAPS be misconstrued as temper, just an attempt to get a point across! ;-)

                                  JD


                                  On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:03 AM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                                   

                                  John Dittli,

                                  If there is no excuse for litter, there is also no excuse for a bad temper!

                                  Ken.




                                  --
                                  John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                                  John Dittli Photography
                                  www.johndittli.com
                                  760-934-3505 

                                  Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                  2010  IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner
                                • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                                  Those of us who live in the cities pick up more litter in a week than you would find in a lifetime stalking the wilderness. I don t think we need to be
                                  Message 17 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
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                                    Those of us who live in the cities pick up more litter in a week than you would find in a lifetime stalking the wilderness. I don't think we need to be lectured on litter, particularly that 'litter' which falls off our equipment and which we sorely need.

                                    A little perspective please.

                                    Ken.

                                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Don't let my CAPS be misconstrued as temper, just an attempt to get a point
                                    > across! ;-)
                                    >
                                    > JD
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:03 AM, kennethjessett@... <
                                    > kenjessett@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > **
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > John Dittli,
                                    > >
                                    > > If there is no excuse for litter, there is also no excuse for a bad temper!
                                    > >
                                    > > Ken.
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                                    > John Dittli Photography
                                    > www.johndittli.com
                                    > 760-934-3505
                                    >
                                    > *Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail*
                                    > *2010 IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner*
                                    > http://johndittli.com/site/content/view/57/48/
                                    >
                                  • ravi_jmt2013
                                    In most areas, I was pleasantly surprised to not see much litter at all. I picked up a small piece of blue foam, a couple of food wrappers, and a discarded
                                    Message 18 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
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                                      In most areas, I was pleasantly surprised to not see much litter at all.  I picked up a small piece of blue foam, a couple of food wrappers, and a discarded tent stake at various points along the trail.  All of these were probably left accidentally.  Closer to Mt. Whitney zone, the litter increased and seemed more intentional. I saw a very old glass jar which I didn't pick up because I didn't want something breakable in my pack.  A couple of abandoned horseshoes were at my camp near Crabtree Meadows.  There was no way I was going to touch the two abandoned wag bags. 

                                      Of course, I did not intentionally litter but I will admit that I lost one wool sock that I couldn't find despite searching for a long time. 


                                      ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                      Since we are on the litter topic, here's a suggestion

                                      Get yourself into the mindset that most of the debris you see on the trial was probably NOT discarded intentionally. Of the 10 or so items of trash that I picked up on my recent trip (including a mason jar of what appeared to be decades-old marijuana buds) my guess is that only one item had been discarded intentionally, I'm 100% certain the MJ was not intentional discarded - probably good stuff once upon a time.

                                      If you are annoyed with litter, pick it up and stuff it into your pocket or pack. (It helps to imagine that you are remedying someone else's mistake.) This will mean

                                      1) those following you will not be annoyed and if your habit spreads, you will be less annoyed in the future

                                      2) you will be making up for the stuff that you leave behind inadvertently

                                      John Curran Ladd
                                      1616 Castro Street
                                      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                                      415-648-9279


                                      On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 8:29 AM, <johndittli@...> wrote:
                                       

                                      Your kidding right? Maybe it's semantics, but if it's something that is discarded, whether purposely or not, it is litter!!! As an ex-ranger I can tell you that you can be sited for a wrapper that inadvertently falls out of your pocket. Likewise trash that might inadvertently blow away from camp. YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE!!! Rubber tips ARE LITTER, and all that have read this thread now know that they are likely to fall off. So now, if they are left behind, it IS indeed deliberately discarded and there is absolutely no excuse. 


                                      I'll step down from my soap pox....


                                      JD



                                      ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                      Litter?

                                      Not so, since beer bottles and candy wrappers are deliberately discarded, whereas the rubber tips are not.

                                      Ken.


                                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Mark Liechty <news@...> wrote:
                                      >

                                      > >
                                      > Just a matter of what catches you eyes. I pick up about a dozen of these tips a year. They are litter, not unlike empty beer bottle or candy wrappers.
                                      >

                                    • Dittli-Goethals
                                      No we don t need to be lectured on litter but apparently you do, if you seriously think unintentionally dropped trash is not litter as you suggested. A
                                      Message 19 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
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                                        No "we" don't need to be lectured on litter but apparently you do, if you seriously think "unintentionally dropped" trash is not litter as you suggested. 

                                        A little perspective is easy and what you do in the city is irrelevant to what you need and in some cases are required to do, socially, environmentally and legally in Wilderness. Though taking what you do in wilderness to the city could make the city a better place. ;-)

                                        For perspective, if you are going to "sorely miss" the rubber tip of your walking sticks, then you had better make sure they aren't going to fall off and get lost eh?

                                        Lastly, I would seriously challenge the statement "Those of us who live in the cities pick up more litter in a week than [I} would find in a lifetime stalking the wilderness." LOL, If only you knew...

                                        Please, tend to your trash, tend to your equipment and don't leave it out there for others to deal with

                                        Thank you and happy trails.


                                        JD




                                        On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:28 AM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                                         

                                        Those of us who live in the cities pick up more litter in a week than you would find in a lifetime stalking the wilderness. I don't think we need to be lectured on litter, particularly that 'litter' which falls off our equipment and which we sorely need.

                                        A little perspective please.

                                        Ken.

                                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Don't let my CAPS be misconstrued as temper, just an attempt to get a point
                                        > across! ;-)
                                        >
                                        > JD
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:03 AM, kennethjessett@... <
                                        > kenjessett@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > **
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > > John Dittli,
                                        > >
                                        > > If there is no excuse for litter, there is also no excuse for a bad temper!
                                        > >
                                        > > Ken.
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        > >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                                        > John Dittli Photography
                                        > www.johndittli.com
                                        > 760-934-3505
                                        >
                                        > *Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail*
                                        > *2010 IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner*
                                        > http://johndittli.com/site/content/view/57/48/
                                        >




                                        --
                                        John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                                        John Dittli Photography
                                        www.johndittli.com
                                        760-934-3505 

                                        Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                        2010  IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner
                                      • Mark Liechty
                                        ... Guys, i was not trying to start a war when talking about the litter these rubber tips become. I First noticed them as a problem while hiking at the
                                        Message 20 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
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                                          On Oct 1, 2013, at 11:36 AM, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
                                          No "we" don't need to be lectured on litter but apparently you do, if you seriously think "unintentionally dropped" trash is not litter as you suggested. 

                                          Please, tend to your trash, tend to your equipment and don't leave it out there for others to deal with
                                          ##########

                                          Guys, i was not trying to start a war when talking about the litter these rubber tips become.

                                          I First noticed them as a "problem" while hiking at the Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico.  About 250K Acres of the most clean trails you can imagine hiked by over 10,000 teenaged are year …. none of whom know how to clean a bedroom <grin>.

                                          There were days when the only trash I found on the trail were a couple of these tips.  It became a bit of an obsession since you have to look to notice them and when back in north CA I now seldom go for a hike where i do not see at least one of them.

                                          I am 100% certain that those who lose them are not trying to make a mess and my point in the observation is that these things are great to keep from poking a hole in your pack during travel but not so much for use on the trail.

                                          They probably do much better in the city on sidewalk but then why would you be using the poles?


                                        • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                                          Oh dear! I think you need to go and lie down John, something is obviously amiss. Ken.
                                          Message 21 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
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                                            Oh dear!

                                            I think you need to go and lie down John, something is obviously amiss.

                                            Ken.

                                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > No "we" don't need to be lectured on litter but apparently you do, if you
                                            > seriously think "unintentionally dropped" trash is not litter as you
                                            > suggested.
                                            >
                                            > A little perspective is easy and what you do in the city is irrelevant to
                                            > what you need and in some cases are required to do, socially,
                                            > environmentally and legally in Wilderness. Though taking what you do in
                                            > wilderness to the city could make the city a better place. ;-)
                                            >
                                            > For perspective, if you are going to "sorely miss" the rubber tip of your
                                            > walking sticks, then you had better make sure they aren't going to fall off
                                            > and get lost eh?
                                            >
                                            > Lastly, I would seriously challenge the statement "Those of us who live in
                                            > the cities pick up more litter in a week than [I} would find in a lifetime
                                            > stalking the wilderness." LOL, If only you knew...
                                            >
                                            > Please, tend to your trash, tend to your equipment and don't leave it out
                                            > there for others to deal with
                                            >
                                            > Thank you and happy trails.
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > JD
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 10:28 AM, kennethjessett@... <
                                            > kenjessett@...> wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > **
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > Those of us who live in the cities pick up more litter in a week than you
                                            > > would find in a lifetime stalking the wilderness. I don't think we need to
                                            > > be lectured on litter, particularly that 'litter' which falls off our
                                            > > equipment and which we sorely need.
                                            > >
                                            > > A little perspective please.
                                            > >
                                            > > Ken.
                                            > >
                                            > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@>
                                            > > wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > Don't let my CAPS be misconstrued as temper, just an attempt to get a
                                            > > point
                                            > > > across! ;-)
                                            > > >
                                            > > > JD
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:03 AM, kennethjessett@ <
                                            > > > kenjessett@> wrote:
                                            > > >
                                            > > > > **
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > John Dittli,
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > If there is no excuse for litter, there is also no excuse for a bad
                                            > > temper!
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > > Ken.
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > >
                                            > > > --
                                            > > > John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                                            > > > John Dittli Photography
                                            > > > www.johndittli.com
                                            > > > 760-934-3505
                                            > > >
                                            > > > *Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail*
                                            > > > *2010 IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner*
                                            > > > http://johndittli.com/site/content/view/57/48/
                                            > > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                                            > John Dittli Photography
                                            > www.johndittli.com
                                            > 760-934-3505
                                            >
                                            > *Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail*
                                            > *2010 IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner*
                                            > http://johndittli.com/site/content/view/57/48/
                                            >
                                          • Dittli-Goethals
                                            As I stated in a previous post, I have a collection of the things myself. But it goes WAY beyond pole tips. Of course people aren t trying to loose them, that
                                            Message 22 of 23 , Oct 1, 2013
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                                              As I stated in a previous post, I have a collection of the things myself. But it goes WAY beyond pole tips. Of course people aren't trying to loose them, that is why those of us that pick them up are making the point; they fall off. 

                                              ~3500 JMT thru permits were written in Yosemite alone this summer. Thousands of others were written from other trailheads. We, as a collective group, have to be hyper aware of what were doing out there. We can't afford to just "blow it off" and say "oh I didn't mean to drop that". 

                                              If we know something is a potential problem, we ALL need to address that problem. The cumulative impacts by us all are staggering and you usually won't notice them until you've worked and lived out there. It can all work, but we really need to stay on top of it.

                                              JD




                                              On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Mark Liechty <news@...> wrote:
                                               

                                              On Oct 1, 2013, at 11:36 AM, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
                                              No "we" don't need to be lectured on litter but apparently you do, if you seriously think "unintentionally dropped" trash is not litter as you suggested. 

                                              Please, tend to your trash, tend to your equipment and don't leave it out there for others to deal with
                                              ##########

                                              Guys, i was not trying to start a war when talking about the litter these rubber tips become.

                                              I First noticed them as a "problem" while hiking at the Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico.  About 250K Acres of the most clean trails you can imagine hiked by over 10,000 teenaged are year …. none of whom know how to clean a bedroom <grin>.

                                              There were days when the only trash I found on the trail were a couple of these tips.  It became a bit of an obsession since you have to look to notice them and when back in north CA I now seldom go for a hike where i do not see at least one of them.

                                              I am 100% certain that those who lose them are not trying to make a mess and my point in the observation is that these things are great to keep from poking a hole in your pack during travel but not so much for use on the trail.

                                              They probably do much better in the city on sidewalk but then why would you be using the poles?





                                              --
                                              John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
                                              John Dittli Photography
                                              www.johndittli.com
                                              760-934-3505 

                                              Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
                                              2010  IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner
                                            • calbirder436
                                              Sent from Windows Mail From: kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎October‎ ‎1‎, ‎2013 ‎6‎:‎48‎ ‎AM To:
                                              Message 23 of 23 , Oct 18, 2013
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                                                Sent from Windows Mail
                                                 
                                                From: kennethjessett@...
                                                Sent: ‎Tuesday‎, ‎October‎ ‎1‎, ‎2013 ‎6‎:‎48‎ ‎AM
                                                To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                                                 
                                                 

                                                The rubber (plastic?) tips on my poles lasted less than a day. First one decided to hang around the trail and then the other went off to find him.

                                                The odd thing is, with all the tap tap tapping going on with rubberless tips, you would think the trail would be full of them, but not a sighting anywhere. One of the great mysteries of life.

                                                Ken.

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