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RE: rest time after thru-hike

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  • straw_marmot
    Jo, From talking to people on the trail, and listening on here, I m convinced that a lot of misery is caused by people vastly underestimating the amount of
    Message 1 of 16 , Sep 28, 2013
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      Jo,


      From talking to people on the trail, and listening on here, I'm convinced that a lot of misery is caused by people vastly underestimating the amount of food that they need to eat to maintain energy levels.  Most people don't have an adequate hunger response, so the fact that you don't feel hungry does not mean that your body doesn't badly need more calories.  If you're in a calorie deficit of even an ounce of body weight a day (let alone a pound a day, that's insane) then your body is eating itself.   Damaged muscle is not getting repaired adequately because protein is diverted to supply energy.  In this state, most people tire easily, aches and pains are exaggerated, wounds heal slower, even decision-making deteriorates.


      I'm pretty fit, but I'm certainly not an exceptional athlete, and I'm 49.  I finished my JMT in 8 days, without any ill effects, and hiking a fairly normal day.   I found that I could cover 25 miles in 11 hours, giving me a civilized hour of daylight in the morning and evening to eat and make/break camp, and a solid 8-9 hours of sleep.   Now, ok, you need good cardiovascular fitness to cover 25 miles in 11 hours.   But that's not enough - plenty of people can do that fairly easily for one day.  But the main reason it was possible to go at this speed for 8 days (I've never tried it before for so long) was that I found that my digestive system was coping with the 5,000 calories per day that I had to eat to have enough energy to cover this mileage AND RECOVER.   I was basically eating constantly dawn to dusk - every time my heart rate dropped on an easier section of trail, I was snacking on nuts, fruit, energy bars, chocolate.   A lot of that time I really didn't feel hungry, but I knew that I had to keep eating.   I barely lost any weight, around 1lb.


      And post-hike recovery time...  well, got back to Fresno, day and a half in a hotel, and back out on a multi-day hike in Kings Canyon feeling fine.


      Balanced nutrition, sufficient protein, they are all nice --- but if you're in huge calorie deficit, you'll still feel awful and decimate your body.   Just eat, eat, eat.   A huge 200-mile expedition is not the time that anyone should be thinking about losing weight deliberately, although of course as you said it's not always possible to carry enough to maintain weight.   But this really IS a time when you can take food that you enjoy -- I almost never eat chocolate at home, but I was eating half a pound a day on my JMT, and I wish I'd taken more, because it just tastes a whole lot better than energy bars, and just getting calories into your body is the biggest priority.   Just eat, eat, eat.








      ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <jotslibrarylist@...> wrote:



      The insufficient calories is probably (definitely) coming into play. I lost 21lbs. on the trip, essentially a pound a day. 
      My issue (AND loss of appetite) was that I could not physically carry the 12 days of food I'd shipped to MTR for my 2nd resupply. I found out very early on that 7 days was about all I could carry, with all my other gear. It didn't much matter as I was not hungry on the 2nd part of the hike anyway. I definitely had the excess weight to lose, but it was not my intention to drop it that way. I have been a healthy eater and exerciser the last four years and until this trip, had not skipped a breakfast in all that time.

      I literally did my Whitney day on less than 300 calories.

      JoT.





      From: John Ladd <johnladd@...>
      To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 3:20 PM
      Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] rest time after thru-hike

       
      Jo --

      I'm now 10 days post-hike and still very draggy despite having regained about half of my weight loss on the trip. 

      This is different from my experience with prior hikes. I attribute the slow recovery to the greater length of my 2013 trip (20 days rather than the 6-12 days that I was more familiar with) and hiking on inadequate calories (a long story which I'll write up later).

      John Curran Ladd
      1616 Castro Street
      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
      415-648-9279


      On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Jo T <jotslibrarylist@...> wrote:
       
      Hello, all-
      So I finished my JMT thru-hike this week (trip report coming later), and was curious how much time people took after their trips before starting to work out again. My trip was 21 nights/22 days.

      I gave myself two days off, then did a short five mile hike today (no pack!!) and am exhausted. Yesterday it took me ALL DAY just to gear up to one trip (in the car!) to the local Target store. On the JMT, I was averaging 10-mile days in high elevation (37lb pack!) and much more challenging terrain (of course) then what is at our local nature preserve. 

      Prior to the trip, I had been hiking 4x/week about 5 miles each time (elevation not even a factor), plus gym 3x/wk 1.5 hours each session (mostly core and weight training).

      Any info/feedback on what worked for you is appreciated. I know everyone is different.

      JoT.



    • Jo T
      Thank you for that.  I thought I was prepared and tried to listen the group s feedback by packing foods that I trail tested previously and liked. My calorie
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 28, 2013
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        Thank you for that. 
        I thought I was prepared and tried to listen the group's feedback by packing foods that I trail tested previously and liked. My calorie budget was about 3000 cal/day (obviously I did not eat that amount after the second resupply, since I could not carry all 18lbs. of food). I wasn't prepared for my taste preferences to change so drastically on the trail. All the sweet snacks started to taste sickly sweet. AND I LOVE chocolate so I happily put a bar a day in my allowance -- then found I couldn't eat the bars or even look at them. I also had a problem with nausea (elevation?). I have a doctor's appt. in a week, in case there is something else going on.

        But I totally agree -- it's not the time to have a calorie deficit and I did not go in hoping to lose weight.
        I just wanted to finish -- all limbs attached. =)

        It is good to know that recovery can be more immediate if I take better care of myself on the trail. Something I still have to learn, I guess.

        JoT.








        From: "ralphbge@..." <ralphbge@...>
        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 7:43 PM
        Subject: [John Muir Trail] RE: rest time after thru-hike

         
        Jo,

        From talking to people on the trail, and listening on here, I'm convinced that a lot of misery is caused by people vastly underestimating the amount of food that they need to eat to maintain energy levels.  Most people don't have an adequate hunger response, so the fact that you don't feel hungry does not mean that your body doesn't badly need more calories.  If you're in a calorie deficit of even an ounce of body weight a day (let alone a pound a day, that's insane) then your body is eating itself.   Damaged muscle is not getting repaired adequately because protein is diverted to supply energy.  In this state, most people tire easily, aches and pains are exaggerated, wounds heal slower, even decision-making deteriorates.

        I'm pretty fit, but I'm certainly not an exceptional athlete, and I'm 49.  I finished my JMT in 8 days, without any ill effects, and hiking a fairly normal day.   I found that I could cover 25 miles in 11 hours, giving me a civilized hour of daylight in the morning and evening to eat and make/break camp, and a solid 8-9 hours of sleep.   Now, ok, you need good cardiovascular fitness to cover 25 miles in 11 hours.   But that's not enough - plenty of people can do that fairly easily for one day.  But the main reason it was possible to go at this speed for 8 days (I've never tried it before for so long) was that I found that my digestive system was coping with the 5,000 calories per day that I had to eat to have enough energy to cover this mileage AND RECOVER.   I was basically eating constantly dawn to dusk - every time my heart rate dropped on an easier section of trail, I was snacking on nuts, fruit, energy bars, chocolate.   A lot of that time I really didn't feel hungry, but I knew that I had to keep eating.   I barely lost any weight, around 1lb.

        And post-hike recovery time...  well, got back to Fresno, day and a half in a hotel, and back out on a multi-day hike in Kings Canyon feeling fine.

        Balanced nutrition, sufficient protein, they are all nice --- but if you're in huge calorie deficit, you'll still feel awful and decimate your body.   Just eat, eat, eat.   A huge 200-mile expedition is not the time that anyone should be thinking about losing weight deliberately, although of course as you said it's not always possible to carry enough to maintain weight.   But this really IS a time when you can take food that you enjoy -- I almost never eat chocolate at home, but I was eating half a pound a day on my JMT, and I wish I'd taken more, because it just tastes a whole lot better than energy bars, and just getting calories into your body is the biggest priority.   Just eat, eat, eat.







      • ravi_jmt2013
        My main activity is running when I m not hiking. I took three days off after finishing on 9/14 ( which were travel days. I ran 5 miles the day after I got home
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 28, 2013
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           My main activity is running when I'm not hiking. I took three days off after finishing on 9/14 ( which were travel days.  I ran 5 miles the day after I got home and then took it easy for the next few days with no runs longer than 8 miles. I'm back to my normal routine now with 38 miles this past week and a 14 mile run today.  I need to ramp up to a couple of longer runs before my marathon at the end of October. Overall, I feel great now that my legs are back to running mode from hiking. It did take a few runs before I felt that my muscles had switched over back into "running mode".   Overall I'm happy with using running to get into shape for the JMT.





          ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          Hello, all-
          So I finished my JMT thru-hike this week (trip report coming later), and was curious how much time people took after their trips before starting to work out again. My trip was 21 nights/22 days.

          I gave myself two days off, then did a short five mile hike today (no pack!!) and am exhausted. Yesterday it took me ALL DAY just to gear up to one trip (in the car!) to the local Target store. On the JMT, I was averaging 10-mile days in high elevation (37lb pack!) and much more challenging terrain (of course) then what is at our local nature preserve. 

          Prior to the trip, I had been hiking 4x/week about 5 miles each time (elevation not even a factor), plus gym 3x/wk 1.5 hours each session (mostly core and weight training).

          Any info/feedback on what worked for you is appreciated. I know everyone is different.

          JoT.

        • straw_marmot
          Aside from not having enough room in the pack, it sounds like your planning was good - solid all-round fitness regime beforehand, 3,000 cal would have been
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 28, 2013
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            Aside from not having enough room in the pack, it sounds like your planning was good - solid all-round fitness regime beforehand, 3,000 cal would have been fine I think for 10 miles/day for the average female body weight.


            Given your dramatic weight loss, seeing a doctor seems sensible for peace of mind.  But if the doctor doesn't pick up on anything else,  I think just the rapid weight loss while you're beating up your muscles on the trail could explain the long recovery.  But you will bounce back, don't worry!  I've done far worse to my body, smoked for 20 years....



            ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <jotslibrarylist@...> wrote:

            Thank you for that. 
            I thought I was prepared and tried to listen the group's feedback by packing foods that I trail tested previously and liked. My calorie budget was about 3000 cal/day (obviously I did not eat that amount after the second resupply, since I could not carry all 18lbs. of food). I wasn't prepared for my taste preferences to change so drastically on the trail. All the sweet snacks started to taste sickly sweet. AND I LOVE chocolate so I happily put a bar a day in my allowance -- then found I couldn't eat the bars or even look at them. I also had a problem with nausea (elevation?). I have a doctor's appt. in a week, in case there is something else going on.

            But I totally agree -- it's not the time to have a calorie deficit and I did not go in hoping to lose weight.
            I just wanted to finish -- all limbs attached. =)

            It is good to know that recovery can be more immediate if I take better care of myself on the trail. Something I still have to learn, I guess.

            JoT.








            From: "ralphbge@..." <ralphbge@...>
            To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, September 28, 2013 7:43 PM
            Subject: [John Muir Trail] RE: rest time after thru-hike

             
            Jo,

            From talking to people on the trail, and listening on here, I'm convinced that a lot of misery is caused by people vastly underestimating the amount of food that they need to eat to maintain energy levels.  Most people don't have an adequate hunger response, so the fact that you don't feel hungry does not mean that your body doesn't badly need more calories.  If you're in a calorie deficit of even an ounce of body weight a day (let alone a pound a day, that's insane) then your body is eating itself.   Damaged muscle is not getting repaired adequately because protein is diverted to supply energy.  In this state, most people tire easily, aches and pains are exaggerated, wounds heal slower, even decision-making deteriorates.

            I'm pretty fit, but I'm certainly not an exceptional athlete, and I'm 49.  I finished my JMT in 8 days, without any ill effects, and hiking a fairly normal day.   I found that I could cover 25 miles in 11 hours, giving me a civilized hour of daylight in the morning and evening to eat and make/break camp, and a solid 8-9 hours of sleep.   Now, ok, you need good cardiovascular fitness to cover 25 miles in 11 hours.   But that's not enough - plenty of people can do that fairly easily for one day.  But the main reason it was possible to go at this speed for 8 days (I've never tried it before for so long) was that I found that my digestive system was coping with the 5,000 calories per day that I had to eat to have enough energy to cover this mileage AND RECOVER.   I was basically eating constantly dawn to dusk - every time my heart rate dropped on an easier section of trail, I was snacking on nuts, fruit, energy bars, chocolate.   A lot of that time I really didn't feel hungry, but I knew that I had to keep eating.   I barely lost any weight, around 1lb.

            And post-hike recovery time...  well, got back to Fresno, day and a half in a hotel, and back out on a multi-day hike in Kings Canyon feeling fine.

            Balanced nutrition, sufficient protein, they are all nice --- but if you're in huge calorie deficit, you'll still feel awful and decimate your body.   Just eat, eat, eat.   A huge 200-mile expedition is not the time that anyone should be thinking about losing weight deliberately, although of course as you said it's not always possible to carry enough to maintain weight.   But this really IS a time when you can take food that you enjoy -- I almost never eat chocolate at home, but I was eating half a pound a day on my JMT, and I wish I'd taken more, because it just tastes a whole lot better than energy bars, and just getting calories into your body is the biggest priority.   Just eat, eat, eat.







          • ravi_jmt2013
            I estimate that I only lost around 5 pounds on the trail but I was very hungry starting about two days after leaving MTR. I ended up deciding to hike faster
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 28, 2013
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              I estimate that I only lost around 5 pounds on the trail but I was very hungry starting about two days after leaving MTR. I ended up deciding to hike faster and ate my eight days of food in seven days.  My bear can was totally full leaving MTR and I had budgeted about 3,300 calories per day. I finished the hike with just one Clif Bar in the canister.  Like many others, I did not feel particularly hungry prior to MTR but in reality I was probably running a calorie deficit for most of the trip.  

              It worked out OK for me because I found that I liked hiking more hours on the last several days so finishing the second half of the hike n 7 days was fine but I plan to study my food choices more carefully before my next multi-week trip.
            • tamirph
              very interesting thread. We are 10 days post-completion. Not sure how much weight we lost on the trail...scale said 10lbs but then came home after 4 days in
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 28, 2013
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                very interesting thread.  We are 10 days post-completion.  Not sure how much weight we lost on the trail...scale said 10lbs but then came home after 4 days in Vegas to 2lbs down.  I stuffed myself in vegas...figured my appetite would be back to normal once we were home.  Wrong.  I wasn't hungry the first few days...but day 7-8-9 post hike, I am starving all the time.  I worked out 7 days post hike and couldn't believe the issues I was having.  Today we went hiking and I again had issues.  


                My workouts prior to the trip were Insanity workouts so that I could concentrate on cardio (they are basically go-go-go for 30-45 minutes).  My issues:  out of breath (which is normal) but pounding heart in chest...and if I don't stop--light headed and ringing in ears to the point that I have to sit down.  Not the workout I planned on.  


                For now I am also adjusting back to regular life so I am eating what I want when I want...not worrying about much.  It does concern me that I can't workout to the same intensity as before...but that will come back too! 



                ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <ravi@...> wrote:

                I estimate that I only lost around 5 pounds on the trail but I was very hungry starting about two days after leaving MTR. I ended up deciding to hike faster and ate my eight days of food in seven days.  My bear can was totally full leaving MTR and I had budgeted about 3,300 calories per day. I finished the hike with just one Clif Bar in the canister.  Like many others, I did not feel particularly hungry prior to MTR but in reality I was probably running a calorie deficit for most of the trip.  

                It worked out OK for me because I found that I liked hiking more hours on the last several days so finishing the second half of the hike n 7 days was fine but I plan to study my food choices more carefully before my next multi-week trip.
              • groundhogsteve
                When I was very much younger, I rode a bicycle across the country. Upon finishing, I literally found it very painful to walk - all my muscles, tendons, and
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 29, 2013
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                  When I was very much younger, I rode a bicycle across the country.  Upon finishing, I literally found it very painful to walk - all my muscles, tendons, and ligaments were set up for riding a bike - the short length pedal stroke, not a normal length walking stride.  Six months later I was still having trouble walking. 


                  For those who are runners, I can see the same thing happening on a JMT hike - the short hiking stride vs. the longer running stride. 


                  Even though I bailed really early on my JMT trip this month, I understand the whole diet thing.  I only planned on one Clif bar per day, but after six days of them I'm at the point that if I ever see another one of those in my life I think I'm gonna upchuck.



                • whcobbs
                  JoT-- The experience you describe is also familiar to marathoners and others who do extensive endurance training culminating in an extended depletion event. It
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 30, 2013
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                     JoT--

                     

                    The experience you describe is also familiar to marathoners and others who do extensive endurance training culminating in an extended depletion event.  It tends to frustrate the goal of a continued training program.  What usually works (assuming you are not injured), is a series of easy abbreviated workouts alternate days, the goal at first  being just to get a warm-up.  After about 10 days you should be ready for more challenging workouts.  A related phenomenon is an emotional crash following the suspension/interruption of endurance training.  This too is familiar to endurance-trained athletes and their trainers in the setting of injury.  The usual solution is to get back to some form of aerobic training.  In the event of complicating impact injuries, swimming or aquarobics usually works.

                     

                    Walt



                    ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <groundhogsteve@...> wrote:

                    When I was very much younger, I rode a bicycle across the country.  Upon finishing, I literally found it very painful to walk - all my muscles, tendons, and ligaments were set up for riding a bike - the short length pedal stroke, not a normal length walking stride.  Six months later I was still having trouble walking. 


                    For those who are runners, I can see the same thing happening on a JMT hike - the short hiking stride vs. the longer running stride. 


                    Even though I bailed really early on my JMT trip this month, I understand the whole diet thing.  I only planned on one Clif bar per day, but after six days of them I'm at the point that if I ever see another one of those in my life I think I'm gonna upchuck.



                  • dlink_95670
                    RE: Clif Bars. I ve had the same thing. I love ProBars for their excellent nutrition and high calorie content for the bulk. But after a week of them, it was
                    Message 9 of 16 , Sep 30, 2013
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                      RE: Clif Bars. I've had the same thing. I love ProBars for their excellent nutrition and high calorie content for the bulk. But after a week of them, it was months before I could eat another. Nowadays I mix it up and take several different kinds of bars. Helps break the monotony, and there are so many bars out there, it's easy to find lots of choices. 



                      ---In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      When I was very much younger, I rode a bicycle across the country.  Upon finishing, I literally found it very painful to walk - all my muscles, tendons, and ligaments were set up for riding a bike - the short length pedal stroke, not a normal length walking stride.  Six months later I was still having trouble walking. 


                      For those who are runners, I can see the same thing happening on a JMT hike - the short hiking stride vs. the longer running stride. 


                      Even though I bailed really early on my JMT trip this month, I understand the whole diet thing.  I only planned on one Clif bar per day, but after six days of them I'm at the point that if I ever see another one of those in my life I think I'm gonna upchuck.



                    • Jo T
                      Thanks, Walt, I ll give the alternate days/easy workouts a try. Luckily, I m okay on the emotional crash -- other than not wanting to go back to work.=) No
                      Message 10 of 16 , Sep 30, 2013
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                        Thanks, Walt, I'll give the alternate days/easy workouts a try.
                        Luckily, I'm okay on the emotional crash -- other than not wanting to go back to work.=) No injuries, thank goodness!
                        Not even a blister.

                        Happy hiking!
                        JoT.

                        From: "walter.cobbs@..." <walter.cobbs@...>
                        To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 5:46 AM
                        Subject: [John Muir Trail] RE: rest time after thru-hike

                         
                         JoT--
                         
                        The experience you describe is also familiar to marathoners and others who do extensive endurance training culminating in an extended depletion event.  It tends to frustrate the goal of a continued training program.  What usually works (assuming you are not injured), is a series of easy abbreviated workouts alternate days, the goal at first  being just to get a warm-up.  After about 10 days you should be ready for more challenging workouts.  A related phenomenon is an emotional crash following the suspension/interruption of endurance training.  This too is familiar to endurance-trained athletes and their trainers in the setting of injury.  The usual solution is to get back to some form of aerobic training.  In the event of complicating impact injuries, swimming or aquarobics usually works.
                         
                        Walt


                        -
                      • Don Amundson
                        I think everyone has a different decompression experience. When I did a 2009 thru I was in fair shape, carried a much heavier pack than did this year and
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 30, 2013
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                          I think everyone has a different decompression experience.  When I did a 2009 thru I was in fair shape, carried a much heavier pack than did this year and injured my knee coming off of Mt. Whitney.  When I got home I think I psychologically rested on my laurels and had no energy.  I started injury specific workouts about a week after returning but wasn't back to full body workouts for 3-4 weeks.  For me a thru hike of 20+ days is a very different experience than a trip of 5-10-15 days.  At 20 days the trip becomes a way of life.  My shelter is my home. The people I meet on the trail are my family.  When I return there are some big adjustments I have to make and sometimes depression can rear it's ugly head and suck the energy out of me. 

                          After this years thru I was back in the gym the day after I returned.  Some contributing factors may be that I am in better shape than in 2009 though of course older at 68, my pack weight was much lighter (15lbs at the Portal with remaining food/water) and it was my second time doing it so it wasn't such a big deal and I had no "laurels" excuse. The depression component didn't kick in possibly because I knew what to expect and fought my way thru it on some unconscious level.

                          I wouldn't worry too much about what your experiencing.  I doubt it's much different than what many experience. Relax, enjoy your memories of the trip.  Give yourself some time and start planning for another trip.


                          To: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com
                          From: jotslibrarylist@...
                          Date: Sat, 28 Sep 2013 14:17:21 -0700
                          Subject: [John Muir Trail] rest time after thru-hike

                           

                          Hello, all-
                          So I finished my JMT thru-hike this week (trip report coming later), and was curious how much time people took after their trips before starting to work out again. My trip was 21 nights/22 days.

                          I gave myself two days off, then did a short five mile hike today (no pack!!) and am exhausted. Yesterday it took me ALL DAY just to gear up to one trip (in the car!) to the local Target store. On the JMT, I was averaging 10-mile days in high elevation (37lb pack!) and much more challenging terrain (of course) then what is at our local nature preserve. 

                          Prior to the trip, I had been hiking 4x/week about 5 miles each time (elevation not even a factor), plus gym 3x/wk 1.5 hours each session (mostly core and weight training).

                          Any info/feedback on what worked for you is appreciated. I know everyone is different.

                          JoT.


                        • John Ladd
                          For whatever it is worth, I did my first day of significant exercise today, 12 days post-trip. I hiked a course with good hills and a 42 lb training pack.
                          Message 12 of 16 , Sep 30, 2013
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                            For whatever it is worth, I did my first day of significant exercise today, 12 days post-trip. I hiked a course with good hills and a 42 lb training pack. There's a 2-mile uphill segment (600 ft of climb) where I tend to push hard on and keep track my times. I was about 2 minutes (5%) slower than my average time for that weight -- about the same as would be typical for me with a 50 lb back over that segment. So slower, but at least it felt as if I was well into recovery mode.

                            I did do some toning classes in a gym in the interval before trying on a pack again (starting 6 days post-trip). Felt distinctly more fatigued than I considered normal. Maybe it will feel better this weekl

                            John Curran Ladd
                            1616 Castro Street
                            San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                            415-648-9279


                            On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 2:17 PM, Jo T <jotslibrarylist@...> wrote:
                             

                            Hello, all-
                            So I finished my JMT thru-hike this week (trip report coming later), and was curious how much time people took after their trips before starting to work out again. My trip was 21 nights/22 days.

                            I gave myself two days off, then did a short five mile hike today (no pack!!) and am exhausted. Yesterday it took me ALL DAY just to gear up to one trip (in the car!) to the local Target store. On the JMT, I was averaging 10-mile days in high elevation (37lb pack!) and much more challenging terrain (of course) then what is at our local nature preserve. 

                            Prior to the trip, I had been hiking 4x/week about 5 miles each time (elevation not even a factor), plus gym 3x/wk 1.5 hours each session (mostly core and weight training).

                            Any info/feedback on what worked for you is appreciated. I know everyone is different.

                            JoT.


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