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RE: You can register your dislike or like of the new Yahoo Groups format here

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  • kent.mclemore
    Just used all my votes! --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, wrote: You can register your dislike or like of the new Yahoo Groups format here
    Message 1 of 17 , Sep 9, 2013
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      Just used all my votes! 



      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <roleigh@...> wrote:

      You can register your dislike or like of the new Yahoo Groups format here

      You can see the comments are about 100-to-1 against the new format.  I'm in agreement with the consensus, so much has been broken.  Each member can vote on existing comments (your vote is considered a "yes" vote, no "no" voting is allowed), you are allowed to share 50 votes.

      I urge all members to register votes to the comments they most agree with.  You can enter new complaints but I think all complaint comments have been made.  I added one but it appears to be redundant to many others.

      I can't believe they did not add the option for moderators to "opt-out" of the new format, nor was advance notice sent to moderators about this.  This is worse than the old "New Coke" fiasco in my opinion.

      http://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/209451-us-groups/category/67137-defects-or-bugs?page=4


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    • Roleigh Martin
      Thanks Kent. A complaint I posted as an answer got voted best answer to a question at this page
      Message 2 of 17 , Sep 9, 2013
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        Thanks Kent.

        A complaint I posted as an answer got voted "best" answer to a question at this page

        At this page, if you can click the "up" thumb button, and/or add a comment about what else you hate about the new format, we can bring this to a higher attention level.  I'd also like to itemize all the problems wrong with the new group format, so by us doing some groupthink, perhaps the complain I print and mail to the chief executives of Yahoo might accomplish something.

        Yes, I know I might be wasting my time here.  But the monumental work of fixing up this mess tempts me to consider a completely different forum for continuing this group.  If Yahoo does restore things to the way they were, or if at least, they keep the URL locations of files and link folders; file folders to the exact URL locations as they were before, so that all of the hundreds of cross-links are restored, and if they make visible the abstracts we had for each link and file, so that viewers can easily see the content of items without having to drill into each item, then I could see staying with the fixed-new format.  But as it is now, it is unacceptable.

        About 2 years ago we had many in this group wanting to move to a forum/board style architecture.  I think we should reopen that thread.  I'm going to have to find it.  The Yahoo Advanced Message Search feature is something that has been taken away, another item (I forgot to enumerate that on the above link page).  I'll have to use Google Advance Search Syntax to help find it.

        Man, I think John Ladd is going to be disappointed when he gets done with his JMT hike.  Nothing like having a monumental Earthquake software disaster occur while you're on a JMT hike.


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        On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:56 PM, <kent.mclemore@...> wrote:
         

        Just used all my votes! 



        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <roleigh@...> wrote:

        You can register your dislike or like of the new Yahoo Groups format here

        You can see the comments are about 100-to-1 against the new format.  I'm in agreement with the consensus, so much has been broken.  Each member can vote on existing comments (your vote is considered a "yes" vote, no "no" voting is allowed), you are allowed to share 50 votes.

        I urge all members to register votes to the comments they most agree with.  You can enter new complaints but I think all complaint comments have been made.  I added one but it appears to be redundant to many others.

        I can't believe they did not add the option for moderators to "opt-out" of the new format, nor was advance notice sent to moderators about this.  This is worse than the old "New Coke" fiasco in my opinion.


      • Roleigh Martin
        Please also register your vote at this page too:
        Message 3 of 17 , Sep 9, 2013
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          On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 9:02 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
          Thanks Kent.

          A complaint I posted as an answer got voted "best" answer to a question at this page

          At this page, if you can click the "up" thumb button, and/or add a comment about what else you hate about the new format, we can bring this to a higher attention level.  I'd also like to itemize all the problems wrong with the new group format, so by us doing some groupthink, perhaps the complain I print and mail to the chief executives of Yahoo might accomplish something.

          Yes, I know I might be wasting my time here.  But the monumental work of fixing up this mess tempts me to consider a completely different forum for continuing this group.  If Yahoo does restore things to the way they were, or if at least, they keep the URL locations of files and link folders; file folders to the exact URL locations as they were before, so that all of the hundreds of cross-links are restored, and if they make visible the abstracts we had for each link and file, so that viewers can easily see the content of items without having to drill into each item, then I could see staying with the fixed-new format.  But as it is now, it is unacceptable.

          About 2 years ago we had many in this group wanting to move to a forum/board style architecture.  I think we should reopen that thread.  I'm going to have to find it.  The Yahoo Advanced Message Search feature is something that has been taken away, another item (I forgot to enumerate that on the above link page).  I'll have to use Google Advance Search Syntax to help find it.

          Man, I think John Ladd is going to be disappointed when he gets done with his JMT hike.  Nothing like having a monumental Earthquake software disaster occur while you're on a JMT hike.


          -------------------------------------------------
          Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
          _



          On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:56 PM, <kent.mclemore@...> wrote:
           

          Just used all my votes! 



          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <roleigh@...> wrote:

          You can register your dislike or like of the new Yahoo Groups format here

          You can see the comments are about 100-to-1 against the new format.  I'm in agreement with the consensus, so much has been broken.  Each member can vote on existing comments (your vote is considered a "yes" vote, no "no" voting is allowed), you are allowed to share 50 votes.

          I urge all members to register votes to the comments they most agree with.  You can enter new complaints but I think all complaint comments have been made.  I added one but it appears to be redundant to many others.

          I can't believe they did not add the option for moderators to "opt-out" of the new format, nor was advance notice sent to moderators about this.  This is worse than the old "New Coke" fiasco in my opinion.



        • kent.mclemore
          Thanks for taking the time to outline some of the problems. I m a relatively new member, but for what it s worth, I d be the first to sign up if this group
          Message 4 of 17 , Sep 10, 2013
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            Thanks for taking the time to outline some of the problems. I'm a relatively new member, but for what it's worth, I'd be the first to sign up if this group moved to a non-yahoo platform. Planning a Sept. '14 thru hike, and I need this resource to be running smoothly!

              



            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <roleigh@...> wrote:

            Thanks Kent.

            A complaint I posted as an answer got voted "best" answer to a question at this page

            At this page, if you can click the "up" thumb button, and/or add a comment about what else you hate about the new format, we can bring this to a higher attention level.  I'd also like to itemize all the problems wrong with the new group format, so by us doing some groupthink, perhaps the complain I print and mail to the chief executives of Yahoo might accomplish something.

            Yes, I know I might be wasting my time here.  But the monumental work of fixing up this mess tempts me to consider a completely different forum for continuing this group.  If Yahoo does restore things to the way they were, or if at least, they keep the URL locations of files and link folders; file folders to the exact URL locations as they were before, so that all of the hundreds of cross-links are restored, and if they make visible the abstracts we had for each link and file, so that viewers can easily see the content of items without having to drill into each item, then I could see staying with the fixed-new format.  But as it is now, it is unacceptable.

            About 2 years ago we had many in this group wanting to move to a forum/board style architecture.  I think we should reopen that thread.  I'm going to have to find it.  The Yahoo Advanced Message Search feature is something that has been taken away, another item (I forgot to enumerate that on the above link page).  I'll have to use Google Advance Search Syntax to help find it.

            Man, I think John Ladd is going to be disappointed when he gets done with his JMT hike.  Nothing like having a monumental Earthquake software disaster occur while you're on a JMT hike.


            -------------------------------------------------
            Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
            _



            On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 12:56 PM, <kent.mclemore@...> wrote:
             

            Just used all my votes! 



            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <roleigh@...> wrote:

            You can register your dislike or like of the new Yahoo Groups format here

            You can see the comments are about 100-to-1 against the new format.  I'm in agreement with the consensus, so much has been broken.  Each member can vote on existing comments (your vote is considered a "yes" vote, no "no" voting is allowed), you are allowed to share 50 votes.

            I urge all members to register votes to the comments they most agree with.  You can enter new complaints but I think all complaint comments have been made.  I added one but it appears to be redundant to many others.

            I can't believe they did not add the option for moderators to "opt-out" of the new format, nor was advance notice sent to moderators about this.  This is worse than the old "New Coke" fiasco in my opinion.

          • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
            Roleigh, I only use the site to read and post messages and I don t bother with the files or other links. Whilst I d like to post my trip report, it takes a URL
            Message 5 of 17 , Sep 10, 2013
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              Roleigh, I only use the site to read and post messages and I don't bother with the files or other links.

              Whilst I'd like to post my trip report, it takes a URL to do that, and so I cannot post it unless I want to create a blog somewhere, which I really don't want the bother of.

              As far as I'm concerned, this site is no better nor no worse than most around and I don't see any difference over the last few months. In any case, I suspect most just use it to see what others are talking about.

              My computer is so slow these days and freezes constantly, so I can't really tell if this site has changed from fast to slow, as some say it has, except to say it is adequate for what it is supposed to do. And after all, it is free.

              Ken.
            • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
              Roleigh, I m not seeing what the problem is. I only visit the site to read and post messages, as I imagine do the majority, it doesn t seem any different to
              Message 6 of 17 , Sep 10, 2013
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                Roleigh,

                I'm not seeing what the problem is. I only visit the site to read and post messages, as I imagine do the majority, it doesn't seem any different to me, no better and no worse than any other forum, so what's the issue that is getting you so worked up? What am I missing?

                Ken.
              • Roleigh Martin
                Ken, The problem is that the bulk of knowledge about the JMT is contained in our file folders and link folders, and in very informative message threads.
                Message 7 of 17 , Sep 10, 2013
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                  Ken,

                  The problem is that the bulk of knowledge about the JMT is contained in our file folders and link folders, and in very informative message threads.  Referencing all of that material involved extensive cross-linkages, but all of those links are now "dead".  

                  Also, looking at the files and links, we had entered informative sentences and in many cases paragraphs about each, but the new format truncates those sentences/paragraphs, so it is hard to look at either a file folder or a link folder and without clicking on the individual items know what is the importance for each link.

                  Can you imagine going into a library database and erasing all but the first 30-40 bytes of abstracts?  Can you imagine going into a library and making all location references invalid?

                  Also the sort order of items in folders default to latest added, not to the alphabetical sort.

                  There are also problems I've read about in modifying databases, I'm told one has to drop the database and rebuild a brand new one now.  I have not verified this yet.  In the past, one could add a new column to an existing database.

                  They do not provide static link URL locations of the relocated files, and I have not been able to figure out a reliable replacement link to give for the relocated files or link folders. Previously, when you uploaded files, a notification email could be sent that sent out a static link URL for the files, despite the fact that if you clicked on a file, you were shown by Yahoo (always a pain in the neck, but at least you had the static link) a dynamic, not-reuseable temporary link. Without knowing the new static link to use, I am unable to address the monumental task itemized in the first paragraph above.

                  It is so depressing to have spent years and hundreds of hours on organizing a world class research depository only to see this software upgrade trash it all.  

                  If you read the feedback of other moderators, you'll see the sentiment about 100-to-1 against the new format.  And I bet the 1 percent of moderators who would want to stick with the new format -- that they are those with zero folders in their files and links, or zero files and zero links.

                  -------------------------------------------------
                  Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                  _



                  On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 2:28 PM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                   


                  Roleigh,

                  I'm not seeing what the problem is. I only visit the site to read and post messages, as I imagine do the majority, it doesn't seem any different to me, no better and no worse than any other forum, so what's the issue that is getting you so worked up? What am I missing?

                  Ken.


                • kent.mclemore
                  Some interesting posts on slashdot about Yahoo and the changes: http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/09/04/1619216/users-revolt-over-yahoo-groups-update --- In
                  Message 8 of 17 , Sep 10, 2013
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                    Some interesting posts on slashdot about Yahoo and the changes:

                    http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/09/04/1619216/users-revolt-over-yahoo-groups-update 



                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <roleigh@...> wrote:

                    You can register your dislike or like of the new Yahoo Groups format here

                    You can see the comments are about 100-to-1 against the new format.  I'm in agreement with the consensus, so much has been broken.  Each member can vote on existing comments (your vote is considered a "yes" vote, no "no" voting is allowed), you are allowed to share 50 votes.

                    I urge all members to register votes to the comments they most agree with.  You can enter new complaints but I think all complaint comments have been made.  I added one but it appears to be redundant to many others.

                    I can't believe they did not add the option for moderators to "opt-out" of the new format, nor was advance notice sent to moderators about this.  This is worse than the old "New Coke" fiasco in my opinion.

                    http://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/209451-us-groups/category/67137-defects-or-bugs?page=4


                    -------------------------------------------------
                    Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                    _

                  • Roleigh Martin
                    I saw that page this morning, I like the comment where the poster said: Re:Ignoring your users is the new mantra (Score:5, Insightful) by TheSkepticalOptimist
                    Message 9 of 17 , Sep 10, 2013
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                      I saw that page this morning, I like the comment where the poster said:

                      Re:Ignoring your users is the new mantra (Score:5, Insightful)
                      by TheSkepticalOptimist (898384) on Wednesday September 04, 2013 @02:19PM (#44758853)
                      They are definitely NOT ignoring their users.

                      They are pandering to the emergence of the Idiot Elite.

                      Think of it, all those features could be argued as "power" features, which have been stripped out or dumbed down to pander to a growing populace of people too lazy or otherwise unable to figure out how to learn something a little more advanced than point and click.

                      I mean Microsoft pulled the start menu because ALL iOS and Android users are used to accessing apps by slapping a hairy knuckle against a grid these days, no fancy "tree" lists, categorizations or having to type to find something. Microsoft might have pissed off their power users, but guaranteed there are more people that actually like the Metro interface then the vocal minority that hate it. People are NOT complaining about the dumbed down simplicity of other Tablet OS'es these days.

                      So nerds, geeks, and dweebs do not rule the tech universe anymore, we are just along for the ride. We used to drive the market by wanting faster and better and more powerful in every generation, but eventually companies could not keep up and realized taking a large regressive step backwards made these products more accessible and desirable by the non-tech elite. Instead of upgrading to a new more powerful 16 core desktop, the idiot elite were dazzled by the simplicity of a tablet or phone with only a small fraction of the processing power and abandoned traditional computers, as they are with other services and games. People would rather fling a bird at pigs or harvest Smurfberries for 6 hours a day rather than exploring a world in an RPG or even getting out their aggressions in a state of the art FPS.

                      Every company today is crafting their services and products to pander to the Idiot Elite because they know they can profit more from them rather than trying to appease the power user. Consider the idea if an FPS like Crysis came out where you would have to buy your ammo with real world money. The GEEKS and NERDS would have revolted and the game would never be successful. However today the Idiot Elite are throwing millions of real world money at companies buying their fucking Smurfberries.

                      Companies are not ignoring their demographic, they are just beginning to realize how naive they are.

                      We lost, even Slashdot is slowly slipping into a social site where people would rather debate the qualities of cat breeds rather than ripping into the merits of a new CPU architecture.

                      No company makes a change to their service or product just to piss of customers, they do so because they are realizing there is a growing market of users that simply do not give a f###!

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                      On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 4:11 PM, <kent.mclemore@...> wrote:
                       

                      Some interesting posts on slashdot about Yahoo and the changes:

                      http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/09/04/1619216/users-revolt-over-yahoo-groups-update 



                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <roleigh@...> wrote:

                      You can register your dislike or like of the new Yahoo Groups format here

                      You can see the comments are about 100-to-1 against the new format.  I'm in agreement with the consensus, so much has been broken.  Each member can vote on existing comments (your vote is considered a "yes" vote, no "no" voting is allowed), you are allowed to share 50 votes.

                      I urge all members to register votes to the comments they most agree with.  You can enter new complaints but I think all complaint comments have been made.  I added one but it appears to be redundant to many others.

                      I can't believe they did not add the option for moderators to "opt-out" of the new format, nor was advance notice sent to moderators about this.  This is worse than the old "New Coke" fiasco in my opinion.


                    • longritchie
                      The comments to that were pretty funny. They started out trashing Yahoo s change and then went to trashing Google s various changes and finally every site
                      Message 10 of 17 , Sep 10, 2013
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                        The comments to that were pretty funny. They started out trashing Yahoo's change and then went to trashing Google's various changes and finally every "site revamp in the history of site revamps".


                        I'm new here and don't have too much invested in this group but if it were me I'd remake this forum somewhere else. Even if you can fix all the broken pieces here what's to keep Yahoo from doing this again some day?



                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                        Some interesting posts on slashdot about Yahoo and the changes:

                        http://tech.slashdot.org/story/13/09/04/1619216/users-revolt-over-yahoo-groups-update 



                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <roleigh@...> wrote:

                        You can register your dislike or like of the new Yahoo Groups format here

                        You can see the comments are about 100-to-1 against the new format.  I'm in agreement with the consensus, so much has been broken.  Each member can vote on existing comments (your vote is considered a "yes" vote, no "no" voting is allowed), you are allowed to share 50 votes.

                        I urge all members to register votes to the comments they most agree with.  You can enter new complaints but I think all complaint comments have been made.  I added one but it appears to be redundant to many others.

                        I can't believe they did not add the option for moderators to "opt-out" of the new format, nor was advance notice sent to moderators about this.  This is worse than the old "New Coke" fiasco in my opinion.

                        http://yahoo.uservoice.com/forums/209451-us-groups/category/67137-defects-or-bugs?page=4


                        -------------------------------------------------
                        Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                        _

                      • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                        Oh dear! I m a user who wants it simple, I m tired of the nerds, geeks, screwballs keeping it all to themselves. They invented the bloody things and then went
                        Message 11 of 17 , Sep 10, 2013
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                          Oh dear!

                          I'm a user who wants it simple, I'm tired of the nerds, geeks, screwballs keeping it all to themselves. They invented the bloody things and then went all Gollum on us with the "My Precious" routine.

                          So, easier? Yes please.

                          Ken.
                          No Facebook, No idiot pod, no twittering, just you and me having a conversation like two intelligent people should.
                        • Roleigh Martin
                          The problem is that the Yahoo s idea of simple is that one would never want to do advance search of old messages. The new GUI only gives you a choice of a
                          Message 12 of 17 , Sep 10, 2013
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                            The problem is that the Yahoo's idea of simple is that one would never want to do advance search of old messages.  The new GUI only gives you a choice of a message number or keywords -- they do not allow a popup asking you who the message writer was from, nor the date range, or whether the words appear in the subject or the body of the message.

                            Often you'll find on this board some real experts and you'll want to note what else that person has said on a subject.  Yahoo has taken away that ability.

                            Yahoo's idea of simple is that your brain is simple and you'll never want anything specific.  I'm afraid what is simple here is the designer's IQ (or management's IQ) not the user's IQ.

                            People who hike the JMT are a little bit more intelligent than the new format presumes them to be.

                            -------------------------------------------------
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                            _



                            On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 6:56 PM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                             

                            Oh dear!

                            I'm a user who wants it simple, I'm tired of the nerds, geeks, screwballs keeping it all to themselves. They invented the bloody things and then went all Gollum on us with the "My Precious" routine.

                            So, easier? Yes please.

                            Ken.
                            No Facebook, No idiot pod, no twittering, just you and me having a conversation like two intelligent people should.


                          • Roleigh Martin
                            to expand on my earlier analogy, Yahoo has removed the ability to do author search and title search in using a library. ... Visit my Google Profile (lots
                            Message 13 of 17 , Sep 10, 2013
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                              to expand on my earlier analogy, Yahoo has removed the ability to do "author search" and "title search" in using a library.

                              -------------------------------------------------
                              Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                              _



                              On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 7:33 PM, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                              The problem is that the Yahoo's idea of simple is that one would never want to do advance search of old messages.  The new GUI only gives you a choice of a message number or keywords -- they do not allow a popup asking you who the message writer was from, nor the date range, or whether the words appear in the subject or the body of the message.

                              Often you'll find on this board some real experts and you'll want to note what else that person has said on a subject.  Yahoo has taken away that ability.

                              Yahoo's idea of simple is that your brain is simple and you'll never want anything specific.  I'm afraid what is simple here is the designer's IQ (or management's IQ) not the user's IQ.

                              People who hike the JMT are a little bit more intelligent than the new format presumes them to be.

                              -------------------------------------------------
                              Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                              _



                              On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 6:56 PM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                               

                              Oh dear!

                              I'm a user who wants it simple, I'm tired of the nerds, geeks, screwballs keeping it all to themselves. They invented the bloody things and then went all Gollum on us with the "My Precious" routine.

                              So, easier? Yes please.

                              Ken.
                              No Facebook, No idiot pod, no twittering, just you and me having a conversation like two intelligent people should.



                            • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                              Well, this is interesting. I posted this message (or meant to) to this site and nothing happened so I supposed it was another one of those lost in space
                              Message 14 of 17 , Sep 11, 2013
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                                Well, this is interesting. I posted this message (or meant to) to this site and nothing happened so I supposed it was another one of those 'lost in space' messages, so I wrote the other one, and now this one appears. So, maybe it is Yahoos fault after all? Down with the tyrant Yahoo!!!

                                Ken.

                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "kennethjessett@..." <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Roleigh, I only use the site to read and post messages and I don't bother with the files or other links.
                                >
                                > Whilst I'd like to post my trip report, it takes a URL to do that, and so I cannot post it unless I want to create a blog somewhere, which I really don't want the bother of.
                                >
                                > As far as I'm concerned, this site is no better nor no worse than most around and I don't see any difference over the last few months. In any case, I suspect most just use it to see what others are talking about.
                                >
                                > My computer is so slow these days and freezes constantly, so I can't really tell if this site has changed from fast to slow, as some say it has, except to say it is adequate for what it is supposed to do. And after all, it is free.
                                >
                                > Ken.
                                >
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