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RE: RE: Sending Pack to Tuolumne Meadows

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  • longritchie
    I agree with you that most people aren t walking those distances in a day. But there are loads of people out on the trail and so if a small percentage is
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 7, 2013
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      I agree with you that most people aren't walking those distances in a day. But there are loads of people out on the trail and so if a small percentage is walking in that mode it translates into a lot of people. I run into these people all the time. Last time this guy and I were leap-frogging one another for a couple of days until I finally went in a different direction.

      I'm dismayed that you think it is irresponsible to talk about this without "the appropriate conservative context". While I know for a fact that there are people who would set out on a 25 mile hike without any previous experience I wasn't aware that this group had a policy to try and protect those people from themselves. I may have been remiss in reading the group guidelines. Can you point me to where they are? The email I received when I joined has a broken link. And ever since Yahoo updated the group software I can no longer even find the files section anymore.



      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      Some people can hike 25-30 miles (HI --> Tuolumne --> Lyell Canyon), up 5500'+ in their first day on a long hike.  longritchie, if you can do it - that's great.  Most hikers I saw on the JMT cannot or even if they did, it would not put them in a good position for the next few days of their hike.  I'm certainly not saying it isn't possible - heck these fastpackers do amazing distances in a day. But, it isn't common to go that far in the first day and the reason is that most people can't or even if they try, it won't be very enjoyable.


      I think it's responsible here on the forum to make sure advice is framed with the appropriate conservative context so people don't get the wrong ideas in planning their trip.  If you are one of those who can do 25-30 miles or even just the 22 miles up to Tuolumne and have no ill effects carry over into the next day, then you probably already know that you can do something like that because you've done similar endeavors (long hiking at altitude) before.  If you don't have experiences that tell you that this should be no problem, then it's not a very safe plan to assume you can just go do it because you want to and it could jeopardize your trip or at least the enjoyment of the first part of your trip. 

      Obviously, this varies hugely by individual.  In my specific case, I knew from doing the 18 mi Half Dome roundtrip the summer before that my feet and knees were not happy after that many miles the first day, even with just a day pack.  If you want to do the 22 mi up to Tuolumne, then just prove to yourself with some similar endeavor in training that you can do it without any ill effects the next day and then you will know your plan is more solid.

      Most endurance efforts are better executed by starting conservatively and building the accomplishment over the duration of the event.  Many marathoners shoot for negative splits (run the 2nd half faster than the 1st half) as a plan for better overall performance and less overall pain.  I personally could not have done an 18 mi day at the start of our trip (even at the lower altitudes of Yosemite), but I could and did do several 18 mi days later in the trip after my legs, feet and back were much more used to the daily rigors.

      --John

      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

      No need for superpowers, just strong legs. Lots of people are capable of hiking from HI to TM or some distance up Lyell Canyon, even with a pack the whole way. I've walked from HI to just shy of Donohue Pass with all my stuff more than once and I'm sure not superman, I'm just another doofus who trail hikes in the Sierra.

    • Roleigh Martin
      Longritchie, the moderators do not comment in every posting. Individual members in the group, as long as they express their opinions as ladies or gentlemen,
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 7, 2013
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        Longritchie, the moderators do not comment in every posting.  Individual members in the group, as long as they express their opinions as ladies or gentlemen, the moderators may not bother to express how they think on the issue.  

        But I thank you for the notice of the broken links.  That was a surprise to me.

        The link to the files has been changed I see -- http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/johnmuirtrail/files

        I have no idea what the "neo" stands for in the link.

        I'm quite upset with Yahoo for doing such radical changes to the groups without informing the moderators ahead of time.  I'm also upset they trashed our home page and graphic image there.  

        Looks like I'll be busy trying to fix things up.  

        Again, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

        -------------------------------------------------
        Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
        _



        On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, longritchie <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
         

        I agree with you that most people aren't walking those distances in a day. But there are loads of people out on the trail and so if a small percentage is walking in that mode it translates into a lot of people. I run into these people all the time. Last time this guy and I were leap-frogging one another for a couple of days until I finally went in a different direction.

        I'm dismayed that you think it is irresponsible to talk about this without "the appropriate conservative context". While I know for a fact that there are people who would set out on a 25 mile hike without any previous experience I wasn't aware that this group had a policy to try and protect those people from themselves. I may have been remiss in reading the group guidelines. Can you point me to where they are? The email I received when I joined has a broken link. And ever since Yahoo updated the group software I can no longer even find the files section anymore.

        Some people can hike 25-30 miles (HI --> Tuolumne --> Lyell Canyon), up 5500'+ in their first day on a long hike.  longritchie, if you can do it - that's great.  Most hikers I saw on the JMT cannot or even if they did, it would not put them in a good position for the next few days of their hike.  I'm certainly not saying it isn't possible - heck these fastpackers do amazing distances in a day. But, it isn't common to go that far in the first day and the reason is that most people can't or even if they try, it won't be very enjoyable.


        I think it's responsible here on the forum to make sure advice is framed with the appropriate conservative context so people don't get the wrong ideas in planning their trip.  If you are one of those who can do 25-30 miles or even just the 22 miles up to Tuolumne and have no ill effects carry over into the next day, then you probably already know that you can do something like that because you've done similar endeavors (long hiking at altitude) before.  If you don't have experiences that tell you that this should be no problem, then it's not a very safe plan to assume you can just go do it because you want to and it could jeopardize your trip or at least the enjoyment of the first part of your trip. 

        Obviously, this varies hugely by individual.  In my specific case, I knew from doing the 18 mi Half Dome roundtrip the summer before that my feet and knees were not happy after that many miles the first day, even with just a day pack.  If you want to do the 22 mi up to Tuolumne, then just prove to yourself with some similar endeavor in training that you can do it without any ill effects the next day and then you will know your plan is more solid.

        Most endurance efforts are better executed by starting conservatively and building the accomplishment over the duration of the event.  Many marathoners shoot for negative splits (run the 2nd half faster than the 1st half) as a plan for better overall performance and less overall pain.  I personally could not have done an 18 mi day at the start of our trip (even at the lower altitudes of Yosemite), but I could and did do several 18 mi days later in the trip after my legs, feet and back were much more used to the daily rigors.

        --John

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

        No need for superpowers, just strong legs. Lots of people are capable of hiking from HI to TM or some distance up Lyell Canyon, even with a pack the whole way. I've walked from HI to just shy of Donohue Pass with all my stuff more than once and I'm sure not superman, I'm just another doofus who trail hikes in the Sierra.


      • longritchie
        So there isn t any group specific policy or guidelines beyond what Yahoo has? Thanks for the link to the files. I guess I ll bookmark it since it doesn t seem
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 9, 2013
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          So there isn't any group specific policy or guidelines beyond what Yahoo has?

          Thanks for the link to the files. I guess I'll bookmark it since it doesn't seem to appear anywhere on it's own. I could have sworn that it was on the web page somewhere prior to the Yahoo change.

          The new group software is slow, clunky, and generally annoying. I was surprised that there were no complaints immediately after it happened and figured it was just me that disliked it. From a user perspective I can't find a single redeeming feature to the change. In fact, every move Yahoo makes seems like a step backwards to me. I can't stand their email either.

          Marissa Mayer sure has her work cut out for her.



          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          Longritchie, the moderators do not comment in every posting.  Individual members in the group, as long as they express their opinions as ladies or gentlemen, the moderators may not bother to express how they think on the issue.  

          But I thank you for the notice of the broken links.  That was a surprise to me.

          The link to the files has been changed I see -- http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/johnmuirtrail/files

          I have no idea what the "neo" stands for in the link.

          I'm quite upset with Yahoo for doing such radical changes to the groups without informing the moderators ahead of time.  I'm also upset they trashed our home page and graphic image there.  

          Looks like I'll be busy trying to fix things up.  

          Again, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

          -------------------------------------------------
          Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
          _



          On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, longritchie <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
           

          I agree with you that most people aren't walking those distances in a day. But there are loads of people out on the trail and so if a small percentage is walking in that mode it translates into a lot of people. I run into these people all the time. Last time this guy and I were leap-frogging one another for a couple of days until I finally went in a different direction.

          I'm dismayed that you think it is irresponsible to talk about this without "the appropriate conservative context". While I know for a fact that there are people who would set out on a 25 mile hike without any previous experience I wasn't aware that this group had a policy to try and protect those people from themselves. I may have been remiss in reading the group guidelines. Can you point me to where they are? The email I received when I joined has a broken link. And ever since Yahoo updated the group software I can no longer even find the files section anymore.

          Some people can hike 25-30 miles (HI --> Tuolumne --> Lyell Canyon), up 5500'+ in their first day on a long hike.  longritchie, if you can do it - that's great.  Most hikers I saw on the JMT cannot or even if they did, it would not put them in a good position for the next few days of their hike.  I'm certainly not saying it isn't possible - heck these fastpackers do amazing distances in a day. But, it isn't common to go that far in the first day and the reason is that most people can't or even if they try, it won't be very enjoyable.


          I think it's responsible here on the forum to make sure advice is framed with the appropriate conservative context so people don't get the wrong ideas in planning their trip.  If you are one of those who can do 25-30 miles or even just the 22 miles up to Tuolumne and have no ill effects carry over into the next day, then you probably already know that you can do something like that because you've done similar endeavors (long hiking at altitude) before.  If you don't have experiences that tell you that this should be no problem, then it's not a very safe plan to assume you can just go do it because you want to and it could jeopardize your trip or at least the enjoyment of the first part of your trip. 

          Obviously, this varies hugely by individual.  In my specific case, I knew from doing the 18 mi Half Dome roundtrip the summer before that my feet and knees were not happy after that many miles the first day, even with just a day pack.  If you want to do the 22 mi up to Tuolumne, then just prove to yourself with some similar endeavor in training that you can do it without any ill effects the next day and then you will know your plan is more solid.

          Most endurance efforts are better executed by starting conservatively and building the accomplishment over the duration of the event.  Many marathoners shoot for negative splits (run the 2nd half faster than the 1st half) as a plan for better overall performance and less overall pain.  I personally could not have done an 18 mi day at the start of our trip (even at the lower altitudes of Yosemite), but I could and did do several 18 mi days later in the trip after my legs, feet and back were much more used to the daily rigors.

          --John

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

          No need for superpowers, just strong legs. Lots of people are capable of hiking from HI to TM or some distance up Lyell Canyon, even with a pack the whole way. I've walked from HI to just shy of Donohue Pass with all my stuff more than once and I'm sure not superman, I'm just another doofus who trail hikes in the Sierra.


        • larry mann
          All she needs to do is UNDO everything that she has done. My personal email accounts are basically useless as I knew them.
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 9, 2013
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            All she needs to do is UNDO everything that she has done. My personal email accounts are basically useless as I knew them. 

            On Sep 9, 2013, at 11:10 AM, "longritchie" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

             

            So there isn't any group specific policy or guidelines beyond what Yahoo has?

            Thanks for the link to the files. I guess I'll bookmark it since it doesn't seem to appear anywhere on it's own. I could have sworn that it was on the web page somewhere prior to the Yahoo change.

            The new group software is slow, clunky, and generally annoying. I was surprised that there were no complaints immediately after it happened and figured it was just me that disliked it. From a user perspective I can't find a single redeeming feature to the change. In fact, every move Yahoo makes seems like a step backwards to me. I can't stand their email either.

            Marissa Mayer sure has her work cut out for her.



            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            Longritchie, the moderators do not comment in every posting.  Individual members in the group, as long as they express their opinions as ladies or gentlemen, the moderators may not bother to express how they think on the issue.  

            But I thank you for the notice of the broken links.  That was a surprise to me.

            The link to the files has been changed I see -- http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/johnmuirtrail/files

            I have no idea what the "neo" stands for in the link.

            I'm quite upset with Yahoo for doing such radical changes to the groups without informing the moderators ahead of time.  I'm also upset they trashed our home page and graphic image there.  

            Looks like I'll be busy trying to fix things up.  

            Again, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

            -------------------------------------------------
            Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
            _



            On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, longritchie <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
             

            I agree with you that most people aren't walking those distances in a day. But there are loads of people out on the trail and so if a small percentage is walking in that mode it translates into a lot of people. I run into these people all the time. Last time this guy and I were leap-frogging one another for a couple of days until I finally went in a different direction.

            I'm dismayed that you think it is irresponsible to talk about this without "the appropriate conservative context". While I know for a fact that there are people who would set out on a 25 mile hike without any previous experience I wasn't aware that this group had a policy to try and protect those people from themselves. I may have been remiss in reading the group guidelines. Can you point me to where they are? The email I received when I joined has a broken link. And ever since Yahoo updated the group software I can no longer even find the files section anymore.

            Some people can hike 25-30 miles (HI --> Tuolumne --> Lyell Canyon), up 5500'+ in their first day on a long hike.  longritchie, if you can do it - that's great.  Most hikers I saw on the JMT cannot or even if they did, it would not put them in a good position for the next few days of their hike.  I'm certainly not saying it isn't possible - heck these fastpackers do amazing distances in a day. But, it isn't common to go that far in the first day and the reason is that most people can't or even if they try, it won't be very enjoyable.


            I think it's responsible here on the forum to make sure advice is framed with the appropriate conservative context so people don't get the wrong ideas in planning their trip.  If you are one of those who can do 25-30 miles or even just the 22 miles up to Tuolumne and have no ill effects carry over into the next day, then you probably already know that you can do something like that because you've done similar endeavors (long hiking at altitude) before.  If you don't have experiences that tell you that this should be no problem, then it's not a very safe plan to assume you can just go do it because you want to and it could jeopardize your trip or at least the enjoyment of the first part of your trip. 

            Obviously, this varies hugely by individual.  In my specific case, I knew from doing the 18 mi Half Dome roundtrip the summer before that my feet and knees were not happy after that many miles the first day, even with just a day pack.  If you want to do the 22 mi up to Tuolumne, then just prove to yourself with some similar endeavor in training that you can do it without any ill effects the next day and then you will know your plan is more solid.

            Most endurance efforts are better executed by starting conservatively and building the accomplishment over the duration of the event.  Many marathoners shoot for negative splits (run the 2nd half faster than the 1st half) as a plan for better overall performance and less overall pain.  I personally could not have done an 18 mi day at the start of our trip (even at the lower altitudes of Yosemite), but I could and did do several 18 mi days later in the trip after my legs, feet and back were much more used to the daily rigors.

            --John

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            No need for superpowers, just strong legs. Lots of people are capable of hiking from HI to TM or some distance up Lyell Canyon, even with a pack the whole way. I've walked from HI to just shy of Donohue Pass with all my stuff more than once and I'm sure not superman, I'm just another doofus who trail hikes in the Sierra.


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