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Re: Sending Pack to Tuolumne Meadows

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  • Byron Nevins
    I m pretty skeptical of a US Post Office just accepting a pack like that! Have you verified this? Also you d have to worry about their hours. It would be
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 6, 2013
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      I'm pretty skeptical of a US Post Office just accepting a pack like that!  Have you verified this?  Also you'd have to worry about their hours.  It would be pretty tough doing that monster hike AND getting to the post office by closing time.

      It's a L-O-N-G pull from HI to Tuolumne.  Don't you want to carry rain gear, a spot of food, first aid kit, toilet gear, etc., etc.?  

      Why not just take out the heaviest stuff (tent, bag, mattress, stove, fuel, food, bear can), put it in a box and give someone at Tuolumne Lodge a few bucks to watch it for a day.  That may not fly either.  In which case (of course I wouldn't do this) -- hide it deep in the woods at Tuolumne.  It's just one day after all.

      Or get a night's stay at Tuolumne Lodge on the day hike day.  They'd almost certainly hold your stuff for you in that case.  ~~ $150 per night I think.

      Come to think of it -- if you get up SUPER early on dayhike day -- you are allowed to use the walk-in campground at TM since you'll have a permit out of Lyell the next day.  Setup camp -- leave your stuff there.  Put the food in the bear box.  Shoot down to HI and Bob's your Uncle!

      And if you're Superman, once you get to TM, break camp and carry on up Lyell Canyon.


    • longritchie
      I m pretty skeptical of a US Post Office just accepting a pack like that! You put it in a box. It costs about $20 to have the TM post office hold it for a
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 6, 2013
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         "I'm pretty skeptical of a US Post Office just accepting a pack like that!"


        You put it in a box. It costs about $20 to have the TM post office hold it for a day. Shipping it is more expensive of course. You can calculate costs on usps.com. There are disadvantages with shipping versus dropping it off, besides cost. You can't have foods that will perish within a week. You can't legally ship alcoholic beverages. And there are restrictions on shipping stove fuel.


        "And if you're Superman, once you get to TM, break camp and carry on up Lyell Canyon."


        No need for superpowers, just strong legs. Lots of people are capable of hiking from HI to TM or some distance up Lyell Canyon, even with a pack the whole way. I've walked from HI to just shy of Donohue Pass with all my stuff more than once and I'm sure not superman, I'm just another doofus who trail hikes in the Sierra.




        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <byron.nevins@...> wrote:

        I'm pretty skeptical of a US Post Office just accepting a pack like that!  Have you verified this?  Also you'd have to worry about their hours.  It would be pretty tough doing that monster hike AND getting to the post office by closing time.

        It's a L-O-N-G pull from HI to Tuolumne.  Don't you want to carry rain gear, a spot of food, first aid kit, toilet gear, etc., etc.?  

        Why not just take out the heaviest stuff (tent, bag, mattress, stove, fuel, food, bear can), put it in a box and give someone at Tuolumne Lodge a few bucks to watch it for a day.  That may not fly either.  In which case (of course I wouldn't do this) -- hide it deep in the woods at Tuolumne.  It's just one day after all.

        Or get a night's stay at Tuolumne Lodge on the day hike day.  They'd almost certainly hold your stuff for you in that case.  ~~ $150 per night I think.

        Come to think of it -- if you get up SUPER early on dayhike day -- you are allowed to use the walk-in campground at TM since you'll have a permit out of Lyell the next day.  Setup camp -- leave your stuff there.  Put the food in the bear box.  Shoot down to HI and Bob's your Uncle!

        And if you're Superman, once you get to TM, break camp and carry on up Lyell Canyon.


      • oshnnsun
        I enjoyed reading your experience of this day hike portion of your thru-hike. ;) Thank you for the reference from the Yahoo Groups. I think I will now train
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 6, 2013
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           I enjoyed reading your experience of this day hike portion of your thru-hike. ;) Thank you for the reference from the Yahoo Groups. I think I will now train harder and then re-evaluate my fitness closer to my departure date. As much as I would really love to do this portion as a day hike, I am by no means a trail runner, just a strong hiker. I could possibly do this if I got an earlier start from HI. (Noting that you started after noon time.) Something to consider. Thank you.



          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <djpauw@...> wrote:

           It depends what kind of shape you are going to be in.      I did that section as a day hike/run last year.  I left my pack up in TM that morning and took the bus down to HV.  I didn't even start the hike until noon and made it to TM just as it was turning dark at 7:30PM.  I brought a headlight just in case but was glad I made it.  I did a blog on the whole adventure if anyone is interested.


          http://travelingbyfoot.blogspot.com/2012/09/jmt-day-1-yosemite-valley-to-tuolumne.html



          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <yahoo@...> wrote:

          I considered doing this (day hike from HI to Tuolumne too), but decided against it because 22 miles with 5000' of elevation gain, even with just a day pack is a very, very long day when you aren't used to the altitude yet, you don't really yet have your hiking legs and your feet are getting fully acquainted with long days in your boots.  I remember what my feet felt like after doing the Half Dome roundtrip (18 mi) last year and they did not feel like they wanted to hike at all the next day,much less strap on a backpack at altitude.  On the plus side, if your next day is just going from Tuolumne to some place below Donahue Pass, that isn't a particularly hard day (though it does get steep at the end).  If you'll be going over Donahue Pass and down the other side to some place to camp, that is another long day, right after the previous very long day.


          By the end of my JMT trip, a 22 mi day hike would have been no big deal (I did days with full pack of 18, 18 and 16 mi in the 2nd half of my trip), but my body was not ready for that at the beginning.  Our days in the beginning were more in the 12-14 mi range and they were hard days as we got used to the whole regimen.


          So, I'd say it really depends upon how prepared and practiced and used to your boots and altitude you are and how much you plan on pushing things the following day too.


          For us, it didn't seem wise to risk the whole JMT trip by potentially overdoing it on the first day.  Different people obviously have different capabilities so only you can assess the wisdom/risk of starting with this long day.



          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <OshnNsun@...> wrote:

          I would like to get a good "sprint" start and am considering starting my hike (day-packing) from Happy Isles and then picking up (by shipping ahead of time) my full gear pack at Tuolumne Meadows, then continuing on to finish the JMT.  Thoughts? 
        • longritchie
          Oshnnsun, you don t need to run. Think tortoise versus the hare. Walk 2 MPH and it will be 11-12 hours of walking. Without a pack and on those well maintainted
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 6, 2013
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            Oshnnsun, you don't need to run. Think tortoise versus the hare. Walk 2 MPH and it will be 11-12 hours of walking. Without a pack and on those well maintainted trails you will probably go faster.

            You should be able to figure out what you are capable of in advance with hikes near where you live.


            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

             I enjoyed reading your experience of this day hike portion of your thru-hike. ;) Thank you for the reference from the Yahoo Groups. I think I will now train harder and then re-evaluate my fitness closer to my departure date. As much as I would really love to do this portion as a day hike, I am by no means a trail runner, just a strong hiker. I could possibly do this if I got an earlier start from HI. (Noting that you started after noon time.) Something to consider. Thank you.



            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <djpauw@...> wrote:

             It depends what kind of shape you are going to be in.      I did that section as a day hike/run last year.  I left my pack up in TM that morning and took the bus down to HV.  I didn't even start the hike until noon and made it to TM just as it was turning dark at 7:30PM.  I brought a headlight just in case but was glad I made it.  I did a blog on the whole adventure if anyone is interested.


            http://travelingbyfoot.blogspot.com/2012/09/jmt-day-1-yosemite-valley-to-tuolumne.html



            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <yahoo@...> wrote:

            I considered doing this (day hike from HI to Tuolumne too), but decided against it because 22 miles with 5000' of elevation gain, even with just a day pack is a very, very long day when you aren't used to the altitude yet, you don't really yet have your hiking legs and your feet are getting fully acquainted with long days in your boots.  I remember what my feet felt like after doing the Half Dome roundtrip (18 mi) last year and they did not feel like they wanted to hike at all the next day,much less strap on a backpack at altitude.  On the plus side, if your next day is just going from Tuolumne to some place below Donahue Pass, that isn't a particularly hard day (though it does get steep at the end).  If you'll be going over Donahue Pass and down the other side to some place to camp, that is another long day, right after the previous very long day.


            By the end of my JMT trip, a 22 mi day hike would have been no big deal (I did days with full pack of 18, 18 and 16 mi in the 2nd half of my trip), but my body was not ready for that at the beginning.  Our days in the beginning were more in the 12-14 mi range and they were hard days as we got used to the whole regimen.


            So, I'd say it really depends upon how prepared and practiced and used to your boots and altitude you are and how much you plan on pushing things the following day too.


            For us, it didn't seem wise to risk the whole JMT trip by potentially overdoing it on the first day.  Different people obviously have different capabilities so only you can assess the wisdom/risk of starting with this long day.



            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <OshnNsun@...> wrote:

            I would like to get a good "sprint" start and am considering starting my hike (day-packing) from Happy Isles and then picking up (by shipping ahead of time) my full gear pack at Tuolumne Meadows, then continuing on to finish the JMT.  Thoughts? 
          • john_friend
            Some people can hike 25-30 miles (HI -- Tuolumne -- Lyell Canyon), up 5500 + in their first day on a long hike. longritchie, if you can do it - that s great.
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 6, 2013
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              Some people can hike 25-30 miles (HI --> Tuolumne --> Lyell Canyon), up 5500'+ in their first day on a long hike.  longritchie, if you can do it - that's great.  Most hikers I saw on the JMT cannot or even if they did, it would not put them in a good position for the next few days of their hike.  I'm certainly not saying it isn't possible - heck these fastpackers do amazing distances in a day. But, it isn't common to go that far in the first day and the reason is that most people can't or even if they try, it won't be very enjoyable.


              I think it's responsible here on the forum to make sure advice is framed with the appropriate conservative context so people don't get the wrong ideas in planning their trip.  If you are one of those who can do 25-30 miles or even just the 22 miles up to Tuolumne and have no ill effects carry over into the next day, then you probably already know that you can do something like that because you've done similar endeavors (long hiking at altitude) before.  If you don't have experiences that tell you that this should be no problem, then it's not a very safe plan to assume you can just go do it because you want to and it could jeopardize your trip or at least the enjoyment of the first part of your trip. 

              Obviously, this varies hugely by individual.  In my specific case, I knew from doing the 18 mi Half Dome roundtrip the summer before that my feet and knees were not happy after that many miles the first day, even with just a day pack.  If you want to do the 22 mi up to Tuolumne, then just prove to yourself with some similar endeavor in training that you can do it without any ill effects the next day and then you will know your plan is more solid.

              Most endurance efforts are better executed by starting conservatively and building the accomplishment over the duration of the event.  Many marathoners shoot for negative splits (run the 2nd half faster than the 1st half) as a plan for better overall performance and less overall pain.  I personally could not have done an 18 mi day at the start of our trip (even at the lower altitudes of Yosemite), but I could and did do several 18 mi days later in the trip after my legs, feet and back were much more used to the daily rigors.

              --John

              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              No need for superpowers, just strong legs. Lots of people are capable of hiking from HI to TM or some distance up Lyell Canyon, even with a pack the whole way. I've walked from HI to just shy of Donohue Pass with all my stuff more than once and I'm sure not superman, I'm just another doofus who trail hikes in the Sierra.

            • longritchie
              I agree with you that most people aren t walking those distances in a day. But there are loads of people out on the trail and so if a small percentage is
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 7, 2013
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                I agree with you that most people aren't walking those distances in a day. But there are loads of people out on the trail and so if a small percentage is walking in that mode it translates into a lot of people. I run into these people all the time. Last time this guy and I were leap-frogging one another for a couple of days until I finally went in a different direction.

                I'm dismayed that you think it is irresponsible to talk about this without "the appropriate conservative context". While I know for a fact that there are people who would set out on a 25 mile hike without any previous experience I wasn't aware that this group had a policy to try and protect those people from themselves. I may have been remiss in reading the group guidelines. Can you point me to where they are? The email I received when I joined has a broken link. And ever since Yahoo updated the group software I can no longer even find the files section anymore.



                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                Some people can hike 25-30 miles (HI --> Tuolumne --> Lyell Canyon), up 5500'+ in their first day on a long hike.  longritchie, if you can do it - that's great.  Most hikers I saw on the JMT cannot or even if they did, it would not put them in a good position for the next few days of their hike.  I'm certainly not saying it isn't possible - heck these fastpackers do amazing distances in a day. But, it isn't common to go that far in the first day and the reason is that most people can't or even if they try, it won't be very enjoyable.


                I think it's responsible here on the forum to make sure advice is framed with the appropriate conservative context so people don't get the wrong ideas in planning their trip.  If you are one of those who can do 25-30 miles or even just the 22 miles up to Tuolumne and have no ill effects carry over into the next day, then you probably already know that you can do something like that because you've done similar endeavors (long hiking at altitude) before.  If you don't have experiences that tell you that this should be no problem, then it's not a very safe plan to assume you can just go do it because you want to and it could jeopardize your trip or at least the enjoyment of the first part of your trip. 

                Obviously, this varies hugely by individual.  In my specific case, I knew from doing the 18 mi Half Dome roundtrip the summer before that my feet and knees were not happy after that many miles the first day, even with just a day pack.  If you want to do the 22 mi up to Tuolumne, then just prove to yourself with some similar endeavor in training that you can do it without any ill effects the next day and then you will know your plan is more solid.

                Most endurance efforts are better executed by starting conservatively and building the accomplishment over the duration of the event.  Many marathoners shoot for negative splits (run the 2nd half faster than the 1st half) as a plan for better overall performance and less overall pain.  I personally could not have done an 18 mi day at the start of our trip (even at the lower altitudes of Yosemite), but I could and did do several 18 mi days later in the trip after my legs, feet and back were much more used to the daily rigors.

                --John

                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                No need for superpowers, just strong legs. Lots of people are capable of hiking from HI to TM or some distance up Lyell Canyon, even with a pack the whole way. I've walked from HI to just shy of Donohue Pass with all my stuff more than once and I'm sure not superman, I'm just another doofus who trail hikes in the Sierra.

              • Roleigh Martin
                Longritchie, the moderators do not comment in every posting. Individual members in the group, as long as they express their opinions as ladies or gentlemen,
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 7, 2013
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                  Longritchie, the moderators do not comment in every posting.  Individual members in the group, as long as they express their opinions as ladies or gentlemen, the moderators may not bother to express how they think on the issue.  

                  But I thank you for the notice of the broken links.  That was a surprise to me.

                  The link to the files has been changed I see -- http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/johnmuirtrail/files

                  I have no idea what the "neo" stands for in the link.

                  I'm quite upset with Yahoo for doing such radical changes to the groups without informing the moderators ahead of time.  I'm also upset they trashed our home page and graphic image there.  

                  Looks like I'll be busy trying to fix things up.  

                  Again, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

                  -------------------------------------------------
                  Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                  _



                  On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, longritchie <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                   

                  I agree with you that most people aren't walking those distances in a day. But there are loads of people out on the trail and so if a small percentage is walking in that mode it translates into a lot of people. I run into these people all the time. Last time this guy and I were leap-frogging one another for a couple of days until I finally went in a different direction.

                  I'm dismayed that you think it is irresponsible to talk about this without "the appropriate conservative context". While I know for a fact that there are people who would set out on a 25 mile hike without any previous experience I wasn't aware that this group had a policy to try and protect those people from themselves. I may have been remiss in reading the group guidelines. Can you point me to where they are? The email I received when I joined has a broken link. And ever since Yahoo updated the group software I can no longer even find the files section anymore.

                  Some people can hike 25-30 miles (HI --> Tuolumne --> Lyell Canyon), up 5500'+ in their first day on a long hike.  longritchie, if you can do it - that's great.  Most hikers I saw on the JMT cannot or even if they did, it would not put them in a good position for the next few days of their hike.  I'm certainly not saying it isn't possible - heck these fastpackers do amazing distances in a day. But, it isn't common to go that far in the first day and the reason is that most people can't or even if they try, it won't be very enjoyable.


                  I think it's responsible here on the forum to make sure advice is framed with the appropriate conservative context so people don't get the wrong ideas in planning their trip.  If you are one of those who can do 25-30 miles or even just the 22 miles up to Tuolumne and have no ill effects carry over into the next day, then you probably already know that you can do something like that because you've done similar endeavors (long hiking at altitude) before.  If you don't have experiences that tell you that this should be no problem, then it's not a very safe plan to assume you can just go do it because you want to and it could jeopardize your trip or at least the enjoyment of the first part of your trip. 

                  Obviously, this varies hugely by individual.  In my specific case, I knew from doing the 18 mi Half Dome roundtrip the summer before that my feet and knees were not happy after that many miles the first day, even with just a day pack.  If you want to do the 22 mi up to Tuolumne, then just prove to yourself with some similar endeavor in training that you can do it without any ill effects the next day and then you will know your plan is more solid.

                  Most endurance efforts are better executed by starting conservatively and building the accomplishment over the duration of the event.  Many marathoners shoot for negative splits (run the 2nd half faster than the 1st half) as a plan for better overall performance and less overall pain.  I personally could not have done an 18 mi day at the start of our trip (even at the lower altitudes of Yosemite), but I could and did do several 18 mi days later in the trip after my legs, feet and back were much more used to the daily rigors.

                  --John

                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  No need for superpowers, just strong legs. Lots of people are capable of hiking from HI to TM or some distance up Lyell Canyon, even with a pack the whole way. I've walked from HI to just shy of Donohue Pass with all my stuff more than once and I'm sure not superman, I'm just another doofus who trail hikes in the Sierra.


                • longritchie
                  So there isn t any group specific policy or guidelines beyond what Yahoo has? Thanks for the link to the files. I guess I ll bookmark it since it doesn t seem
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 9, 2013
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                    So there isn't any group specific policy or guidelines beyond what Yahoo has?

                    Thanks for the link to the files. I guess I'll bookmark it since it doesn't seem to appear anywhere on it's own. I could have sworn that it was on the web page somewhere prior to the Yahoo change.

                    The new group software is slow, clunky, and generally annoying. I was surprised that there were no complaints immediately after it happened and figured it was just me that disliked it. From a user perspective I can't find a single redeeming feature to the change. In fact, every move Yahoo makes seems like a step backwards to me. I can't stand their email either.

                    Marissa Mayer sure has her work cut out for her.



                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Longritchie, the moderators do not comment in every posting.  Individual members in the group, as long as they express their opinions as ladies or gentlemen, the moderators may not bother to express how they think on the issue.  

                    But I thank you for the notice of the broken links.  That was a surprise to me.

                    The link to the files has been changed I see -- http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/johnmuirtrail/files

                    I have no idea what the "neo" stands for in the link.

                    I'm quite upset with Yahoo for doing such radical changes to the groups without informing the moderators ahead of time.  I'm also upset they trashed our home page and graphic image there.  

                    Looks like I'll be busy trying to fix things up.  

                    Again, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

                    -------------------------------------------------
                    Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                    _



                    On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, longritchie <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                     

                    I agree with you that most people aren't walking those distances in a day. But there are loads of people out on the trail and so if a small percentage is walking in that mode it translates into a lot of people. I run into these people all the time. Last time this guy and I were leap-frogging one another for a couple of days until I finally went in a different direction.

                    I'm dismayed that you think it is irresponsible to talk about this without "the appropriate conservative context". While I know for a fact that there are people who would set out on a 25 mile hike without any previous experience I wasn't aware that this group had a policy to try and protect those people from themselves. I may have been remiss in reading the group guidelines. Can you point me to where they are? The email I received when I joined has a broken link. And ever since Yahoo updated the group software I can no longer even find the files section anymore.

                    Some people can hike 25-30 miles (HI --> Tuolumne --> Lyell Canyon), up 5500'+ in their first day on a long hike.  longritchie, if you can do it - that's great.  Most hikers I saw on the JMT cannot or even if they did, it would not put them in a good position for the next few days of their hike.  I'm certainly not saying it isn't possible - heck these fastpackers do amazing distances in a day. But, it isn't common to go that far in the first day and the reason is that most people can't or even if they try, it won't be very enjoyable.


                    I think it's responsible here on the forum to make sure advice is framed with the appropriate conservative context so people don't get the wrong ideas in planning their trip.  If you are one of those who can do 25-30 miles or even just the 22 miles up to Tuolumne and have no ill effects carry over into the next day, then you probably already know that you can do something like that because you've done similar endeavors (long hiking at altitude) before.  If you don't have experiences that tell you that this should be no problem, then it's not a very safe plan to assume you can just go do it because you want to and it could jeopardize your trip or at least the enjoyment of the first part of your trip. 

                    Obviously, this varies hugely by individual.  In my specific case, I knew from doing the 18 mi Half Dome roundtrip the summer before that my feet and knees were not happy after that many miles the first day, even with just a day pack.  If you want to do the 22 mi up to Tuolumne, then just prove to yourself with some similar endeavor in training that you can do it without any ill effects the next day and then you will know your plan is more solid.

                    Most endurance efforts are better executed by starting conservatively and building the accomplishment over the duration of the event.  Many marathoners shoot for negative splits (run the 2nd half faster than the 1st half) as a plan for better overall performance and less overall pain.  I personally could not have done an 18 mi day at the start of our trip (even at the lower altitudes of Yosemite), but I could and did do several 18 mi days later in the trip after my legs, feet and back were much more used to the daily rigors.

                    --John

                    --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    No need for superpowers, just strong legs. Lots of people are capable of hiking from HI to TM or some distance up Lyell Canyon, even with a pack the whole way. I've walked from HI to just shy of Donohue Pass with all my stuff more than once and I'm sure not superman, I'm just another doofus who trail hikes in the Sierra.


                  • larry mann
                    All she needs to do is UNDO everything that she has done. My personal email accounts are basically useless as I knew them.
                    Message 9 of 18 , Sep 9, 2013
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                      All she needs to do is UNDO everything that she has done. My personal email accounts are basically useless as I knew them. 

                      On Sep 9, 2013, at 11:10 AM, "longritchie" <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                       

                      So there isn't any group specific policy or guidelines beyond what Yahoo has?

                      Thanks for the link to the files. I guess I'll bookmark it since it doesn't seem to appear anywhere on it's own. I could have sworn that it was on the web page somewhere prior to the Yahoo change.

                      The new group software is slow, clunky, and generally annoying. I was surprised that there were no complaints immediately after it happened and figured it was just me that disliked it. From a user perspective I can't find a single redeeming feature to the change. In fact, every move Yahoo makes seems like a step backwards to me. I can't stand their email either.

                      Marissa Mayer sure has her work cut out for her.



                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      Longritchie, the moderators do not comment in every posting.  Individual members in the group, as long as they express their opinions as ladies or gentlemen, the moderators may not bother to express how they think on the issue.  

                      But I thank you for the notice of the broken links.  That was a surprise to me.

                      The link to the files has been changed I see -- http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/johnmuirtrail/files

                      I have no idea what the "neo" stands for in the link.

                      I'm quite upset with Yahoo for doing such radical changes to the groups without informing the moderators ahead of time.  I'm also upset they trashed our home page and graphic image there.  

                      Looks like I'll be busy trying to fix things up.  

                      Again, thanks for bringing this to my attention.

                      -------------------------------------------------
                      Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                      _



                      On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 9:49 PM, longritchie <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                       

                      I agree with you that most people aren't walking those distances in a day. But there are loads of people out on the trail and so if a small percentage is walking in that mode it translates into a lot of people. I run into these people all the time. Last time this guy and I were leap-frogging one another for a couple of days until I finally went in a different direction.

                      I'm dismayed that you think it is irresponsible to talk about this without "the appropriate conservative context". While I know for a fact that there are people who would set out on a 25 mile hike without any previous experience I wasn't aware that this group had a policy to try and protect those people from themselves. I may have been remiss in reading the group guidelines. Can you point me to where they are? The email I received when I joined has a broken link. And ever since Yahoo updated the group software I can no longer even find the files section anymore.

                      Some people can hike 25-30 miles (HI --> Tuolumne --> Lyell Canyon), up 5500'+ in their first day on a long hike.  longritchie, if you can do it - that's great.  Most hikers I saw on the JMT cannot or even if they did, it would not put them in a good position for the next few days of their hike.  I'm certainly not saying it isn't possible - heck these fastpackers do amazing distances in a day. But, it isn't common to go that far in the first day and the reason is that most people can't or even if they try, it won't be very enjoyable.


                      I think it's responsible here on the forum to make sure advice is framed with the appropriate conservative context so people don't get the wrong ideas in planning their trip.  If you are one of those who can do 25-30 miles or even just the 22 miles up to Tuolumne and have no ill effects carry over into the next day, then you probably already know that you can do something like that because you've done similar endeavors (long hiking at altitude) before.  If you don't have experiences that tell you that this should be no problem, then it's not a very safe plan to assume you can just go do it because you want to and it could jeopardize your trip or at least the enjoyment of the first part of your trip. 

                      Obviously, this varies hugely by individual.  In my specific case, I knew from doing the 18 mi Half Dome roundtrip the summer before that my feet and knees were not happy after that many miles the first day, even with just a day pack.  If you want to do the 22 mi up to Tuolumne, then just prove to yourself with some similar endeavor in training that you can do it without any ill effects the next day and then you will know your plan is more solid.

                      Most endurance efforts are better executed by starting conservatively and building the accomplishment over the duration of the event.  Many marathoners shoot for negative splits (run the 2nd half faster than the 1st half) as a plan for better overall performance and less overall pain.  I personally could not have done an 18 mi day at the start of our trip (even at the lower altitudes of Yosemite), but I could and did do several 18 mi days later in the trip after my legs, feet and back were much more used to the daily rigors.

                      --John

                      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                      No need for superpowers, just strong legs. Lots of people are capable of hiking from HI to TM or some distance up Lyell Canyon, even with a pack the whole way. I've walked from HI to just shy of Donohue Pass with all my stuff more than once and I'm sure not superman, I'm just another doofus who trail hikes in the Sierra.


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