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Re: Fences on Trail?

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  • John
    ... to mention again. Some of these gates are very difficult for me to manage. I am a small person and the wire tension on some of the gates are such that it
    Message 1 of 25 , Aug 26, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "snkworth"  wrote:
      >

      > I have mentioned this before on this forum, but I think it is in order to mention again. Some of these "gates" are very difficult for me to manage. I am a small person and the wire tension on some of the gates are such that it is impossible for me to close the "gate" after I have passed through. It even seems dangerous to attempt to stretch the wiring and "gate" back in place.



      My wife is small and has the same issue. Just do the best you can. It is unreasonable to have to wait for someone else or use some sort of tool. At a minimum, you can usually get the top wire closed by leaving the bottom out. Not ideal, but better then leaving it on the ground.

      JD
      Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
      see book here

       
      > Last year when i raised my objection to the gate situation, Mr. Ladd suggested I wait at the gate until another hiker came along to assist me. I am completely unwilling to do that.
      >
      > Regards to all,
      > Nancy from Mt. Shasta
      > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd johnladd@ wrote:
      > >
      > > The "drift fences" are designed to keep packstock (e.g., mules, llamas)
      > > from wandering away. It allows the packers to let the packstock graze with
      > > less risk of losing track of them.
      > >
      > > "Drift fences have been provided in many areas to protect resources and
      > > help hold stock. When turning your stock loose to graze, examine the
      > > terrain to predict where they'll go. Use bells on lead animals only.
      > > Hobbles may be used, but will become less effective with time. Picketing
      > > and portable electric fences are permitted as long as they are moved
      > > frequently enough to prevent trampling and overgrazing. If you use pickets
      > > or portable electric fences, try restraining only enough animals to keep
      > > the rest from straying. To minimize the risk of injury, introduce your
      > > stock to hobbles, picketing, and electric fences at home, not in the
      > > wilderness."
      > >
      > > from page 9 of
      > >
      > > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/upload/2013-Stock-Users-Guide-FINAL-WEB.pdf
      > >
      > > See also
      > >
      > > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/stockreg.htm
      > >
      > > warning: pages load slowly
      > >
      > > John Curran Ladd
      > > 1616 Castro Street
      > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
      > > 415-648-9279
      > >
      > >
      > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:19 AM, jj442434 jj442434@ wrote:
      > >
      > > > **
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Just got back from the JMT. What's with the fences across the trail in
      > > > Kings Canyon NP?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Robert
      I only leave them open around areas where there is a cliff for them to fall down...only kidding;)...maybe. I am with Nancy though, if the gate is that
      Message 2 of 25 , Aug 26, 2013
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        I only leave them open around areas where there is a cliff for them to fall down...only kidding;)...maybe. I am with Nancy though, if the gate is that difficult to close, and the horse owners haven't done the proper repairs, I'm not going out of my way to get it closed. Other than for trail repairs, horses are a nuisance in the backcountry, just my opinion, and yes I'm sure I'm in the minority on this.

        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@...> wrote:
        >
        > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "snkworth" wrote:
        > >
        > >
        > > I have mentioned this before on this forum, but I think it is in order
        > to mention again. Some of these "gates" are very difficult for me to
        > manage. I am a small person and the wire tension on some of the gates
        > are such that it is impossible for me to close the "gate" after I have
        > passed through. It even seems dangerous to attempt to stretch the wiring
        > and "gate" back in place.
        >
        >
        > My wife is small and has the same issue. Just do the best you can. It is
        > unreasonable to have to wait for someone else or use some sort of tool.
        > At a minimum, you can usually get the top wire closed by leaving the
        > bottom out. Not ideal, but better then leaving it on the ground.
        > JDWalk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trailsee book here
        >
        > > Last year when i raised my objection to the gate situation, Mr. Ladd
        > suggested I wait at the gate until another hiker came along to assist
        > me. I am completely unwilling to do that.
        > >
        > > Regards to all,
        > > Nancy from Mt. Shasta
        > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd johnladd@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > The "drift fences" are designed to keep packstock (e.g., mules,
        > llamas)
        > > > from wandering away. It allows the packers to let the packstock
        > graze with
        > > > less risk of losing track of them.
        > > >
        > > > "Drift fences have been provided in many areas to protect resources
        > and
        > > > help hold stock. When turning your stock loose to graze, examine the
        > > > terrain to predict where they'll go. Use bells on lead animals only.
        > > > Hobbles may be used, but will become less effective with time.
        > Picketing
        > > > and portable electric fences are permitted as long as they are moved
        > > > frequently enough to prevent trampling and overgrazing. If you use
        > pickets
        > > > or portable electric fences, try restraining only enough animals to
        > keep
        > > > the rest from straying. To minimize the risk of injury, introduce
        > your
        > > > stock to hobbles, picketing, and electric fences at home, not in the
        > > > wilderness."
        > > >
        > > > from page 9 of
        > > >
        > > >
        > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/upload/2013-Stock-Users-Guide-FINA\
        > L-WEB.pdf
        > > >
        > > > See also
        > > >
        > > > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/stockreg.htm
        > > >
        > > > warning: pages load slowly
        > > >
        > > > John Curran Ladd
        > > > 1616 Castro Street
        > > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
        > > > 415-648-9279
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:19 AM, jj442434 jj442434@ wrote:
        > > >
        > > > > **
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > Just got back from the JMT. What's with the fences across the
        > trail in
        > > > > Kings Canyon NP?
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Bill Heiser
        I was wondering ... what is the protocol for closing these gates? I figured leave it as I found it is probably best. So if it s closed when I get there, I
        Message 3 of 25 , Aug 26, 2013
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          I was wondering ... what is the protocol for closing these gates?  I figured "leave it as I found it" is probably best.  So if it's closed when I get there, I make sure to close it after I pass through.  However sometimes I find them open (such as on a recent trip on the Copper Creek Trail in Kings Canyon NP, where I passed thru several open gates along the way).  In these cases I wasn't sure if I should close the gate (maybe someone before me forgot to close it) or if it should be left as I found it...



          August 26, 2013 7:55 PM
           

          I only leave them open around areas where there is a cliff for them to fall down...only kidding;)...maybe. I am with Nancy though, if the gate is that difficult to close, and the horse owners haven't done the proper repairs, I'm not going out of my way to get it closed. Other than for trail repairs, horses are a nuisance in the backcountry, just my opinion, and yes I'm sure I'm in the minority on this.

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "snkworth" wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > I have mentioned this before on this forum, but I think it is in order
          > to mention again. Some of these "gates" are very difficult for me to
          > manage. I am a small person and the wire tension on some of the gates
          > are such that it is impossible for me to close the "gate" after I have
          > passed through. It even seems dangerous to attempt to stretch the wiring
          > and "gate" back in place.
          >
          >
          > My wife is small and has the same issue. Just do the best you can. It is
          > unreasonable to have to wait for someone else or use some sort of tool.
          > At a minimum, you can usually get the top wire closed by leaving the
          > bottom out. Not ideal, but better then leaving it on the ground.
          > JDWalk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trailsee book here
          >
          > > Last year when i raised my objection to the gate situation, Mr. Ladd
          > suggested I wait at the gate until another hiker came along to assist
          > me. I am completely unwilling to do that.
          > >
          > > Regards to all,
          > > Nancy from Mt. Shasta
          > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd johnladd@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > The "drift fences" are designed to keep packstock (e.g., mules,
          > llamas)
          > > > from wandering away. It allows the packers to let the packstock
          > graze with
          > > > less risk of losing track of them.
          > > >
          > > > "Drift fences have been provided in many areas to protect resources
          > and
          > > > help hold stock. When turning your stock loose to graze, examine the
          > > > terrain to predict where they'll go. Use bells on lead animals only.
          > > > Hobbles may be used, but will become less effective with time.
          > Picketing
          > > > and portable electric fences are permitted as long as they are moved
          > > > frequently enough to prevent trampling and overgrazing. If you use
          > pickets
          > > > or portable electric fences, try restraining only enough animals to
          > keep
          > > > the rest from straying. To minimize the risk of injury, introduce
          > your
          > > > stock to hobbles, picketing, and electric fences at home, not in the
          > > > wilderness."
          > > >
          > > > from page 9 of
          > > >
          > > >
          > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/upload/2013-Stock-Users-Guide-FINA\
          > L-WEB.pdf
          > > >
          > > > See also
          > > >
          > > > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/stockreg.htm
          > > >
          > > > warning: pages load slowly
          > > >
          > > > John Curran Ladd
          > > > 1616 Castro Street
          > > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
          > > > 415-648-9279
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:19 AM, jj442434 jj442434@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > > **
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Just got back from the JMT. What's with the fences across the
          > trail in
          > > > > Kings Canyon NP?
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >

          August 26, 2013 6:01 PM
           
          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "snkworth"  wrote:
          >

          > I have mentioned this before on this forum, but I think it is in order to mention again. Some of these "gates" are very difficult for me to manage. I am a small person and the wire tension on some of the gates are such that it is impossible for me to close the "gate" after I have passed through. It even seems dangerous to attempt to stretch the wiring and "gate" back in place.



          My wife is small and has the same issue. Just do the best you can. It is unreasonable to have to wait for someone else or use some sort of tool. At a minimum, you can usually get the top wire closed by leaving the bottom out. Not ideal, but better then leaving it on the ground.

          JD
          Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
          see book here

           
          > Last year when i raised my objection to the gate situation, Mr. Ladd suggested I wait at the gate until another hiker came along to assist me. I am completely unwilling to do that.
          >
          > Regards to all,
          > Nancy from Mt. Shasta
          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd johnladd@ wrote:
          > >
          > > The "drift fences" are designed to keep packstock (e.g., mules, llamas)
          > > from wandering away. It allows the packers to let the packstock graze with
          > > less risk of losing track of them.
          > >
          > > "Drift fences have been provided in many areas to protect resources and
          > > help hold stock. When turning your stock loose to graze, examine the
          > > terrain to predict where they'll go. Use bells on lead animals only.
          > > Hobbles may be used, but will become less effective with time. Picketing
          > > and portable electric fences are permitted as long as they are moved
          > > frequently enough to prevent trampling and overgrazing. If you use pickets
          > > or portable electric fences, try restraining only enough animals to keep
          > > the rest from straying. To minimize the risk of injury, introduce your
          > > stock to hobbles, picketing, and electric fences at home, not in the
          > > wilderness."
          > >
          > > from page 9 of
          > >
          > > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/upload/2013-Stock-Users-Guide-FINAL-WEB.pdf
          > >
          > > See also
          > >
          > > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/stockreg.htm
          > >
          > > warning: pages load slowly
          > >
          > > John Curran Ladd
          > > 1616 Castro Street
          > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
          > > 415-648-9279
          > >
          > >
          > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:19 AM, jj442434 jj442434@ wrote:
          > >
          > > > **
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Just got back from the JMT. What's with the fences across the trail in
          > > > Kings Canyon NP?
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
      • Dittli-Goethals
        Some hikers will leave the gates open for various reasons, they should always be closed. If a packer arrives via a different trail, they don t check all the
        Message 4 of 25 , Aug 26, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Some hikers will leave the gates open for various reasons, they should always be closed. If a packer arrives via a different trail, they don't check all the gates before letting the stock graze. If gates are left open, stock can wander off in some cases all the way back to the pack station. In other cases they can wander into fragile places there not supposed to be.


          On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Bill Heiser <bill@...> wrote:
          I was wondering ... what is the protocol for closing these gates?  I figured "leave it as I found it" is probably best.  So if it's closed when I get there, I make sure to close it after I pass through.  However sometimes I find them open (such as on a recent trip on the Copper Creek Trail in Kings Canyon NP, where I passed thru several open gates along the way).  In these cases I wasn't sure if I should close the gate (maybe someone before me forgot to close it) or if it should be left as I found it...



          August 26, 2013 7:55 PM
           

          I only leave them open around areas where there is a cliff for them to fall down...only kidding;)...maybe. I am with Nancy though, if the gate is that difficult to close, and the horse owners haven't done the proper repairs, I'm not going out of my way to get it closed. Other than for trail repairs, horses are a nuisance in the backcountry, just my opinion, and yes I'm sure I'm in the minority on this.

          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@...> wrote:
          >
          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "snkworth" wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > I have mentioned this before on this forum, but I think it is in order
          > to mention again. Some of these "gates" are very difficult for me to
          > manage. I am a small person and the wire tension on some of the gates
          > are such that it is impossible for me to close the "gate" after I have
          > passed through. It even seems dangerous to attempt to stretch the wiring
          > and "gate" back in place.
          >
          >
          > My wife is small and has the same issue. Just do the best you can. It is
          > unreasonable to have to wait for someone else or use some sort of tool.
          > At a minimum, you can usually get the top wire closed by leaving the
          > bottom out. Not ideal, but better then leaving it on the ground.
          > JDWalk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trailsee book here
          >
          > > Last year when i raised my objection to the gate situation, Mr. Ladd
          > suggested I wait at the gate until another hiker came along to assist
          > me. I am completely unwilling to do that.
          > >
          > > Regards to all,
          > > Nancy from Mt. Shasta
          > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd johnladd@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > The "drift fences" are designed to keep packstock (e.g., mules,
          > llamas)
          > > > from wandering away. It allows the packers to let the packstock
          > graze with
          > > > less risk of losing track of them.
          > > >
          > > > "Drift fences have been provided in many areas to protect resources
          > and
          > > > help hold stock. When turning your stock loose to graze, examine the
          > > > terrain to predict where they'll go. Use bells on lead animals only.
          > > > Hobbles may be used, but will become less effective with time.
          > Picketing
          > > > and portable electric fences are permitted as long as they are moved
          > > > frequently enough to prevent trampling and overgrazing. If you use
          > pickets
          > > > or portable electric fences, try restraining only enough animals to
          > keep
          > > > the rest from straying. To minimize the risk of injury, introduce
          > your
          > > > stock to hobbles, picketing, and electric fences at home, not in the
          > > > wilderness."
          > > >
          > > > from page 9 of
          > > >
          > > >
          > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/upload/2013-Stock-Users-Guide-FINA\
          > L-WEB.pdf
          > > >
          > > > See also
          > > >
          > > > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/stockreg.htm
          > > >
          > > > warning: pages load slowly
          > > >
          > > > John Curran Ladd
          > > > 1616 Castro Street
          > > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
          > > > 415-648-9279
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:19 AM, jj442434 jj442434@ wrote:
          > > >
          > > > > **
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > Just got back from the JMT. What's with the fences across the
          > trail in
          > > > > Kings Canyon NP?
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >

          August 26, 2013 6:01 PM
           
          --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "snkworth"  wrote:
          >

          > I have mentioned this before on this forum, but I think it is in order to mention again. Some of these "gates" are very difficult for me to manage. I am a small person and the wire tension on some of the gates are such that it is impossible for me to close the "gate" after I have passed through. It even seems dangerous to attempt to stretch the wiring and "gate" back in place.



          My wife is small and has the same issue. Just do the best you can. It is unreasonable to have to wait for someone else or use some sort of tool. At a minimum, you can usually get the top wire closed by leaving the bottom out. Not ideal, but better then leaving it on the ground.

          JD
          Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
          see book here

           
          > Last year when i raised my objection to the gate situation, Mr. Ladd suggested I wait at the gate until another hiker came along to assist me. I am completely unwilling to do that.
          >
          > Regards to all,
          > Nancy from Mt. Shasta
          > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd johnladd@ wrote:
          > >
          > > The "drift fences" are designed to keep packstock (e.g., mules, llamas)
          > > from wandering away. It allows the packers to let the packstock graze with
          > > less risk of losing track of them.
          > >
          > > "Drift fences have been provided in many areas to protect resources and
          > > help hold stock. When turning your stock loose to graze, examine the
          > > terrain to predict where they'll go. Use bells on lead animals only.
          > > Hobbles may be used, but will become less effective with time. Picketing
          > > and portable electric fences are permitted as long as they are moved
          > > frequently enough to prevent trampling and overgrazing. If you use pickets
          > > or portable electric fences, try restraining only enough animals to keep
          > > the rest from straying. To minimize the risk of injury, introduce your
          > > stock to hobbles, picketing, and electric fences at home, not in the
          > > wilderness."
          > >
          > > from page 9 of
          > >
          > > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/upload/2013-Stock-Users-Guide-FINAL-WEB.pdf
          > >
          > > See also
          > >
          > > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/stockreg.htm
          > >
          > > warning: pages load slowly
          > >
          > > John Curran Ladd
          > > 1616 Castro Street
          > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
          > > 415-648-9279
          > >
          > >
          > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:19 AM, jj442434 jj442434@ wrote:
          > >
          > > > **
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > Just got back from the JMT. What's with the fences across the trail in
          > > > Kings Canyon NP?
          > > >
          > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >



          --
          John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
          John Dittli Photography
          www.johndittli.com
          760-934-3505 

          Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
          2010  IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner
        • Frank D
          A common problem I ve seen is groups that spread out and leave the gate open for the next hiker. The last hiker gets to the gate and doesn t know if it was
          Message 5 of 25 , Aug 26, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            A common problem I've seen is groups that spread out and leave the gate open for the next hiker. The last hiker gets to the gate and doesn't know if it was open or closed so he leaves it open. Best to close them unless posted otherwise.
             
            Snap


            On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Dittli-Goethals <johndittli@...> wrote:
             

            Some hikers will leave the gates open for various reasons, they should always be closed. If a packer arrives via a different trail, they don't check all the gates before letting the stock graze. If gates are left open, stock can wander off in some cases all the way back to the pack station. In other cases they can wander into fragile places there not supposed to be.


            On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Bill Heiser <bill@...> wrote:
            I was wondering ... what is the protocol for closing these gates?  I figured "leave it as I found it" is probably best.  So if it's closed when I get there, I make sure to close it after I pass through.  However sometimes I find them open (such as on a recent trip on the Copper Creek Trail in Kings Canyon NP, where I passed thru several open gates along the way).  In these cases I wasn't sure if I should close the gate (maybe someone before me forgot to close it) or if it should be left as I found it...



            August 26, 2013 7:55 PM
             

            I only leave them open around areas where there is a cliff for them to fall down...only kidding;)...maybe. I am with Nancy though, if the gate is that difficult to close, and the horse owners haven't done the proper repairs, I'm not going out of my way to get it closed. Other than for trail repairs, horses are a nuisance in the backcountry, just my opinion, and yes I'm sure I'm in the minority on this.

            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "John" <johndittli@...> wrote:
            >
            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "snkworth" wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > I have mentioned this before on this forum, but I think it is in order
            > to mention again. Some of these "gates" are very difficult for me to
            > manage. I am a small person and the wire tension on some of the gates
            > are such that it is impossible for me to close the "gate" after I have
            > passed through. It even seems dangerous to attempt to stretch the wiring
            > and "gate" back in place.
            >
            >
            > My wife is small and has the same issue. Just do the best you can. It is
            > unreasonable to have to wait for someone else or use some sort of tool.
            > At a minimum, you can usually get the top wire closed by leaving the
            > bottom out. Not ideal, but better then leaving it on the ground.
            > JDWalk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trailsee book here
            >
            > > Last year when i raised my objection to the gate situation, Mr. Ladd
            > suggested I wait at the gate until another hiker came along to assist
            > me. I am completely unwilling to do that.
            > >
            > > Regards to all,
            > > Nancy from Mt. Shasta
            > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd johnladd@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > > The "drift fences" are designed to keep packstock (e.g., mules,
            > llamas)
            > > > from wandering away. It allows the packers to let the packstock
            > graze with
            > > > less risk of losing track of them.
            > > >
            > > > "Drift fences have been provided in many areas to protect resources
            > and
            > > > help hold stock. When turning your stock loose to graze, examine the
            > > > terrain to predict where they'll go. Use bells on lead animals only.
            > > > Hobbles may be used, but will become less effective with time.
            > Picketing
            > > > and portable electric fences are permitted as long as they are moved
            > > > frequently enough to prevent trampling and overgrazing. If you use
            > pickets
            > > > or portable electric fences, try restraining only enough animals to
            > keep
            > > > the rest from straying. To minimize the risk of injury, introduce
            > your
            > > > stock to hobbles, picketing, and electric fences at home, not in the
            > > > wilderness."
            > > >
            > > > from page 9 of
            > > >
            > > >
            > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/upload/2013-Stock-Users-Guide-FINA\
            > L-WEB.pdf
            > > >
            > > > See also
            > > >
            > > > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/stockreg.htm
            > > >
            > > > warning: pages load slowly
            > > >
            > > > John Curran Ladd
            > > > 1616 Castro Street
            > > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
            > > > 415-648-9279
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:19 AM, jj442434 jj442434@ wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > **
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > Just got back from the JMT. What's with the fences across the
            > trail in
            > > > > Kings Canyon NP?
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >

            August 26, 2013 6:01 PM
             
            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "snkworth"  wrote:
            >

            > I have mentioned this before on this forum, but I think it is in order to mention again. Some of these "gates" are very difficult for me to manage. I am a small person and the wire tension on some of the gates are such that it is impossible for me to close the "gate" after I have passed through. It even seems dangerous to attempt to stretch the wiring and "gate" back in place.



            My wife is small and has the same issue. Just do the best you can. It is unreasonable to have to wait for someone else or use some sort of tool. At a minimum, you can usually get the top wire closed by leaving the bottom out. Not ideal, but better then leaving it on the ground.

            JD
            Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
            see book here

             
            > Last year when i raised my objection to the gate situation, Mr. Ladd suggested I wait at the gate until another hiker came along to assist me. I am completely unwilling to do that.
            >
            > Regards to all,
            > Nancy from Mt. Shasta
            > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd johnladd@ wrote:
            > >
            > > The "drift fences" are designed to keep packstock (e.g., mules, llamas)
            > > from wandering away. It allows the packers to let the packstock graze with
            > > less risk of losing track of them.
            > >
            > > "Drift fences have been provided in many areas to protect resources and
            > > help hold stock. When turning your stock loose to graze, examine the
            > > terrain to predict where they'll go. Use bells on lead animals only.
            > > Hobbles may be used, but will become less effective with time. Picketing
            > > and portable electric fences are permitted as long as they are moved
            > > frequently enough to prevent trampling and overgrazing. If you use pickets
            > > or portable electric fences, try restraining only enough animals to keep
            > > the rest from straying. To minimize the risk of injury, introduce your
            > > stock to hobbles, picketing, and electric fences at home, not in the
            > > wilderness."
            > >
            > > from page 9 of
            > >
            > > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/upload/2013-Stock-Users-Guide-FINAL-WEB.pdf
            > >
            > > See also
            > >
            > > http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/stockreg.htm
            > >
            > > warning: pages load slowly
            > >
            > > John Curran Ladd
            > > 1616 Castro Street
            > > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
            > > 415-648-9279
            > >
            > >
            > > On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:19 AM, jj442434 jj442434@ wrote:
            > >
            > > > **
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Just got back from the JMT. What's with the fences across the trail in
            > > > Kings Canyon NP?
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >



            --
            John Dittli/Leslie Goethals
            John Dittli Photography
            www.johndittli.com
            760-934-3505 

            Walk the Sky: Following the John Muir Trail
            2010  IPPY Gold Medal Award Winner


          • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
            I doubt if you are in the minority, it s just that there is little one can do about it. I d much rather not have to hike over a dust trail churned by horse and
            Message 6 of 25 , Aug 27, 2013
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              I doubt if you are in the minority, it's just that there is little one can do about it. I'd much rather not have to hike over a dust trail churned by horse and mule hooves or have to try to avoid their droppings and piss pools, but I doubt if that is going to change any time soon.

              All the high sierra camps are served by mule trains, so that the few who don't want to carry their own food and tents, can enjoy the 'wilderness'.

              Ken.


              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
              >
              > I only leave them open around areas where there is a cliff for them to fall down...only kidding;)...maybe. I am with Nancy though, if the gate is that difficult to close, and the horse owners haven't done the proper repairs, I'm not going out of my way to get it closed. Other than for trail repairs, horses are a nuisance in the backcountry, just my opinion, and yes I'm sure I'm in the minority on this.
              >
              >
            • Roleigh Martin
              Ken Those who use packers in the southern half -- most of them carry their own food and tents. It s just that they can t carry 11-13 days worth of food. I
              Message 7 of 25 , Aug 27, 2013
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                Ken

                Those who use packers in the southern half -- most of them carry their own food and tents.  It's just that they can't carry 11-13 days worth of food.  I doubt if the young people are carrying 11-13 days of food too.  

                I stayed overnight with Pine Creek Pack Station -- more and more is the case these days where packers are doing supply drops than servicing groups with everything so they don't have to carry anything.

                In those cases where they are servicing groups with everything, it is often local people who live in California.

                Roleigh

                -------------------------------------------------
                Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research links)
                _



                On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:50 AM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                 

                I doubt if you are in the minority, it's just that there is little one can do about it. I'd much rather not have to hike over a dust trail churned by horse and mule hooves or have to try to avoid their droppings and piss pools, but I doubt if that is going to change any time soon.

                All the high sierra camps are served by mule trains, so that the few who don't want to carry their own food and tents, can enjoy the 'wilderness'.

                Ken.



                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                >
                > I only leave them open around areas where there is a cliff for them to fall down...only kidding;)...maybe. I am with Nancy though, if the gate is that difficult to close, and the horse owners haven't done the proper repairs, I'm not going out of my way to get it closed. Other than for trail repairs, horses are a nuisance in the backcountry, just my opinion, and yes I'm sure I'm in the minority on this.
                >
                >


              • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                Roleigh, I suppose I was really commenting on the top half and the supplies to the HSC s. I did meet a Chinese group who were planning to resupply over
                Message 8 of 25 , Aug 27, 2013
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                  Roleigh,

                  I suppose I was really commenting on the top half and the supplies to the HSC's.

                  I did meet a Chinese group who were planning to resupply over Kearsage via packers, so I suppose there is not much option there.

                  I expect any day now, John Ladd will offer to set-up a resupply depot along the bottom half of the trail using llamas to bring the food in. I can see him standing on the side of an escarpment wearing a kilt and playing the pipes to draw the curious traveller and seduce them with his ghee, pigs fat and other similarly horrible stuff.

                  Ken.



                  --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, Roleigh Martin <roleigh@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Ken
                  >
                  > Those who use packers in the southern half -- most of them carry their own
                  > food and tents. It's just that they can't carry 11-13 days worth of food.
                  > I doubt if the young people are carrying 11-13 days of food too.
                  >
                  > I stayed overnight with Pine Creek Pack Station -- more and more is the
                  > case these days where packers are doing supply drops than servicing groups
                  > with everything so they don't have to carry anything.
                  >
                  > In those cases where they are servicing groups with everything, it is often
                  > local people who live in California.
                  >
                  > Roleigh
                  >
                  > -------------------------------------------------
                  > Visit my Google Profile (lots of very interesting research
                  > links)<https://plus.google.com/104440166440169700478/about>
                  > _
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 9:50 AM, kennethjessett@... <
                  > kenjessett@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > **
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > I doubt if you are in the minority, it's just that there is little one can
                  > > do about it. I'd much rather not have to hike over a dust trail churned by
                  > > horse and mule hooves or have to try to avoid their droppings and piss
                  > > pools, but I doubt if that is going to change any time soon.
                  > >
                  > > All the high sierra camps are served by mule trains, so that the few who
                  > > don't want to carry their own food and tents, can enjoy the 'wilderness'.
                  > >
                  > > Ken.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > > I only leave them open around areas where there is a cliff for them to
                  > > fall down...only kidding;)...maybe. I am with Nancy though, if the gate is
                  > > that difficult to close, and the horse owners haven't done the proper
                  > > repairs, I'm not going out of my way to get it closed. Other than for trail
                  > > repairs, horses are a nuisance in the backcountry, just my opinion, and yes
                  > > I'm sure I'm in the minority on this.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • John Ladd
                  On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 7:42 AM, kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                  Message 9 of 25 , Aug 27, 2013
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                    On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 7:42 AM, kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                    I expect any day now, John Ladd will offer to set-up a resupply depot along the bottom half of the trail using llamas to bring the food in. I can see him standing on the side of an escarpment wearing a kilt and playing the pipes to draw the curious traveller and seduce them with his ghee, pigs fat and other similarly horrible stuff.

                    What a great idea. Maybe I could joint venture it with


                    No, I haven't left town yet. Tomorrow morning. 23 days with gloriously no temptations to post excessively or again re-argue the benefits of lardo, ghee, pesto or confits

                    Unfortunately, it may take me a while to learn how to play a bagpipe. Would an Irish flute do as well?

                    John Curran Ladd
                    1616 Castro Street
                    San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                    415-648-9279
                  • Barbara Karagosian
                    Have a great time John!
                    Message 10 of 25 , Aug 27, 2013
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                      Have a great time John!



                      On Aug 27, 2013, at 8:54 AM, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:

                       

                      On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 7:42 AM, kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net <kenjessett@...> wrote:
                      I expect any day now, John Ladd will offer to set-up a resupply depot along the bottom half of the trail using llamas to bring the food in. I can see him standing on the side of an escarpment wearing a kilt and playing the pipes to draw the curious traveller and seduce them with his ghee, pigs fat and other similarly horrible stuff.

                      What a great idea. Maybe I could joint venture it with


                      No, I haven't left town yet. Tomorrow morning. 23 days with gloriously no temptations to post excessively or again re-argue the benefits of lardo, ghee, pesto or confits

                      Unfortunately, it may take me a while to learn how to play a bagpipe. Would an Irish flute do as well?

                      John Curran Ladd
                      1616 Castro Street
                      San Francisco, CA  94114-3707
                      415-648-9279

                    • kennethjessett@sbcglobal.net
                      I have to say,m that stuff look awful in the car. But enjoy it - and whistling will do as well. :-) Have a great time, and let us have your report when you
                      Message 11 of 25 , Aug 27, 2013
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                        I have to say,m that stuff look awful in the car. But enjoy it - and whistling will do as well. :-)

                        Have a great time, and let us have your report when you return.

                        Ken.


                        --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, John Ladd <johnladd@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > On Tue, Aug 27, 2013 at 7:42 AM, kennethjessett@... <kenjessett
                        > @...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > I expect any day now, John Ladd will offer to set-up a resupply depot
                        > > along the bottom half of the trail using llamas to bring the food in. I can
                        > > see him standing on the side of an escarpment wearing a kilt and playing
                        > > the pipes to draw the curious traveller and seduce them with his ghee, pigs
                        > > fat and other similarly horrible stuff.
                        >
                        >
                        > What a great idea. Maybe I could joint venture it with
                        >
                        > http://www.boccalone.com/
                        >
                        > [image: Inline image 1]
                        >
                        > No, I haven't left town yet. Tomorrow morning. 23 days with gloriously no
                        > temptations to post excessively or again re-argue the benefits of lardo,
                        > ghee, pesto or confits.
                        >
                        > Unfortunately, it may take me a while to learn how to play a bagpipe. Would
                        > an Irish flute do as well?
                        >
                        > John Curran Ladd
                        > 1616 Castro Street
                        > San Francisco, CA 94114-3707
                        > 415-648-9279
                        >
                      • Jim Ringland
                        A while back I was in McClure Meadow (Evolution Valley) and ended up chatting one evening with a packer who was supporting some park service work up at the
                        Message 12 of 25 , Aug 27, 2013
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                          A while back I was in McClure Meadow (Evolution Valley) and ended up chatting one evening with a packer who was supporting some park service work up at the Muir Hut.   Very interesting guy with some experiences that hikers may not get.  He was real interested to know if all the gates we saw coming in were closed.  He once had to chase his stock from McClure all the way down to the bridge across the South Fork of the San Joaquin down at the Goddard Canyon junction ... and then lead them back up.  He wasn't eager to repeat that. 

                          Jim Ringland

                           

                          From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dittli-Goethals
                          Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 8:36 PM
                          To: JMT Yahoo Group
                          Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: Fences on Trail?

                           

                           

                          Some hikers will leave the gates open for various reasons, they should always be closed. If a packer arrives via a different trail, they don't check all the gates before letting the stock graze. If gates are left open, stock can wander off in some cases all the way back to the pack station. In other cases they can wander into fragile places there not supposed to be.

                           

                          On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Bill Heiser <bill@...> wrote:

                          I was wondering ... what is the protocol for closing these gates?  I figured "leave it as I found it" is probably best. 

                           

                           

                          <snip>

                        • jamesrchristopherson
                          When i worked for the Forest Service quite a while ago, if the packers wanted a gate left open they would wire it open so you knew it was to be left open,
                          Message 13 of 25 , Aug 27, 2013
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                            When i worked for the Forest Service quite a while ago, if the packers wanted a gate left open they would wire it open so you knew it was to be left open, something like barb wired tight with pliers so the average person would not be able to change it.  Otherwise it should always be closed, and never left open for any reason.  If you cant get it to completely close because your not strong enough, use a little rope and make it as secure as possible.

                             

                            At least thats what they told us. 



                            --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, <jtringl@...> wrote:

                            A while back I was in McClure Meadow (Evolution Valley) and ended up chatting one evening with a packer who was supporting some park service work up at the Muir Hut.   Very interesting guy with some experiences that hikers may not get.  He was real interested to know if all the gates we saw coming in were closed.  He once had to chase his stock from McClure all the way down to the bridge across the South Fork of the San Joaquin down at the Goddard Canyon junction ... and then lead them back up.  He wasn't eager to repeat that. 

                            Jim Ringland

                             

                            From: johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com [mailto:johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dittli-Goethals
                            Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 8:36 PM
                            To: JMT Yahoo Group
                            Subject: Re: [John Muir Trail] Re: Fences on Trail?

                             

                             

                            Some hikers will leave the gates open for various reasons, they should always be closed. If a packer arrives via a different trail, they don't check all the gates before letting the stock graze. If gates are left open, stock can wander off in some cases all the way back to the pack station. In other cases they can wander into fragile places there not supposed to be.

                             

                            On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 8:17 PM, Bill Heiser <bill@...> wrote:

                            I was wondering ... what is the protocol for closing these gates?  I figured "leave it as I found it" is probably best. 

                             

                             

                            <snip>

                          • scriv.ener
                            Most horses I follow seem to have infinitely long intestines.
                            Message 14 of 25 , Aug 27, 2013
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                              Most horses I follow seem to have infinitely long intestines.



                              --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > ... horses are a nuisance in the backcountry, just my opinion,
                              > and yes I'm sure I'm in the minority on this.
                              >
                              > ...
                              >
                            • longritchie
                              If a horse s intestines were of infinite length then it s first bowel movement would occur after an infinite amount of time passed. Most people would have
                              Message 15 of 25 , Aug 27, 2013
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                                If a horse's intestines were of infinite length then it's first bowel movement would occur after an infinite amount of time passed. Most people would have finished the JMT before then.


                                --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "scriv.ener" <jeffreyz212@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > Most horses I follow seem to have infinitely long intestines.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In johnmuirtrail@yahoogroups.com, "Robert" <rnperky@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > ... horses are a nuisance in the backcountry, just my opinion,
                                > > and yes I'm sure I'm in the minority on this.
                                > >
                                > > ...
                                > >
                                >
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